Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

Don't know why people are assuming female hrothgar will be added in 7.0. I think people are completely forgetting that covid-19 delayed production by 3-4 months which would explain only male viera being at the start of Endwalker and Endwalker being released near the end of the year and not in June/July like the other expansions. Now that they say they are back on track it's highly likely that female hrothgar will be in 6.0 as well but at the half point+.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Don't know why people are assuming female hrothgar will be added in 7.0. I think people are completely forgetting that covid-19 delayed production by 3-4 months which would explain only male viera being at the start of Endwalker and Endwalker being released near the end of the year and not in June/July like the other expansions. Now that they say they are back on track it's highly likely that female hrothgar will be in 6.0 as well but at the half point+.

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I explained my reasoning in my previous post. It's been new races every second expansion so far, and 6.0 wouldn't get anything by that pattern; therefore getting male Viera now may be an early bonus rather than "both were supposed to be available now but one is behind schedule".

They specifically said that Viera could have been held back until both were ready, but they decided to release it individually. If anything that means they put all the work into them and haven't even started on Hrothgar yet.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Look at the current pattern of new race character model releases.

3.0 = male Au Ra and female Au Ra
5.0 = male Hrothgar and female Viera
6.0 = male Viera
?.? = female Hrothgar

Essentially up to now it's been "one new model per expansion, released in pairs every second expansion".

They said at Fan Fest that they could have held onto male Viera until female Hrothgar were also ready, but decided to release them one at a time. That may mean they're only getting worked on one at a time too, and they don't have anything else to show at this point.

It's not impossible that we'll get female Hrothgar within 6.X but it definitely fits the normal release pattern for them to arrive in 7.0.

If we do have to wait that long it's because we're getting Viera early, rather than Hrothgar late.

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I mean if we're following the pattern then male viera would be paired up with female hrothgar.
And I think that was their plan before covid.
But from what Yoshi-P said in fanfest, it looks like the female hrothgar is close to be finished or at least on the final stage, but they're not confident it'd be ready for EW launch. So I think there's still a high chance we get it on 6.x patch.

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Originally Posted by Fland

I mean if we're following the pattern then male viera would be paired up with female hrothgar.

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Well yes, of course, but by the same pattern we would be getting both of them in 7.0.

So far all we know for certain is that we are getting one of them earlier than that, and were specifically told that we're getting it earlier than we would have if both were released together.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Now that they say they are back on track it's highly likely that female hrothgar will be in 6.0 as well but at the half point+.

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Originally Posted by Fland

So I think there's still a high chance we get it on 6.x patch.

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But races sell expacs.
Even if the models were ready and the devs wanted to release them, I doubt big papa SQEX would let them just add them in the middle of an expac when they could be released with a expac to catch attention and boost sales.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Well yes, of course, but by the same pattern we would be getting both of them in 7.0.

So far all we know for certain is that we are getting one of them earlier than that, and were specifically told that we're getting it earlier than we would have if both were released together.

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By the same pattern we'd get both on 6.0, but then covid happened. So they're trying to compromise by releasing one first and the other a bit later. If femhroth is released in 6.x then it's technically still in the same expansion as its pair, the male viera.

I don't think it would be on 7.0 because, like other have mentioned in this thread, they would save the announcement that femhroth is coming much later closer to 7.0.
But then they did mentioned that it's coming on the last fanfest which means it most likely would be somewhere during EW.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

But races sell expacs.
Even if the models were ready and the devs wanted to release them, I doubt big papa SQEX would let them just add them in the middle of an expac when they could be released with a expac to catch attention and boost sales.

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Yes, they did hype it up by having male viera on expansion release AND confirming that femhroth IS coming. It's not as ideal as hyping the expac by having both at release, but it's the best they can do with covid. If femhroth is coming on 7.0 then shouldn't they save it to hype 7.0?

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Originally Posted by Fland

By the same pattern we'd get both on 6.0, but then covid happened. So they're trying to compromise by releasing one first and the other a bit later. If femhroth is released in 6.x then it's technically still in the same expansion as its pair, the male viera.

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3+2=5; 5+2=7

That's the pattern I'm seeing.

New races added in 3.0 and 5.0 indicate (based on an admittedly small set of data) that the next pair would be due in 7.0, but here we are getting one "early" and it's being delivered in 6.0, outside of the expected pattern.

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Originally Posted by Fland

I don't think it would be on 7.0 because, like other have mentioned in this thread, they would save the announcement that femhroth is coming much later closer to 7.0.
But then they did mentioned that it's coming on the last fanfest which means it most likely would be somewhere during EW.

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I don't think it's guaranteed to be during Endwalker just because the existence of female Hrothgar was assured alongside the Viera reveal.

Even if they aren't coming until 7.0, I think the dev team have learned their lesson to not be coy about the fact that they are definitely coming at some point.

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Originally Posted by Fland

By the same pattern we'd get both on 6.0, but then covid happened. So they're trying to compromise by releasing one first and the other a bit later. If femhroth is released in 6.x then it's technically still in the same expansion as its pair, the male viera.

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well no, by the normal pattern both would have been released 7.0.
3.0 au ri, 4.0 no races, 5.0 viera+ hrothgar - if they‘d follow the pattern we would have gotten no races 6.0 but both other genders 7.0, but they decided to release viera males earlier.
they even mentioned they thought about releasing them together (holding male viera off), but then decided to implement them 1 by 1. as iscah already stated, fem hroth didn‘t get „delayed“, we just got male viera earlier.

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Originally Posted by Fland

Yes, they did hype it up by having male viera on expansion release AND confirming that femhroth IS coming. It's not as ideal as hyping the expac by having both at release, but it's the best they can do with covid. If femhroth is coming on 7.0 then shouldn't they save it to hype 7.0?

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well that could be them trying to avoid another shitstorm. if they wouldn‘t have mentioned fem hroths, i think many people would have been revolting xD

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think it's guaranteed to be during Endwalker just because the existence of female Hrothgar was assured alongside the Viera reveal.

Even if they aren't coming until 7.0, I think the dev team have learned their lesson to not be coy about the fact that they are definitely coming at some point.

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AFAIR they never announce something is coming on fanfest keynote for a later expansion. There might things that they gave vague answer about like "I'll talk to the team" or "We'll see the player's response" during live letters, but not in this case.
It's not a 100% guaranteed of course, but I'd say the chance femhroth is coming sometimes during EW is higher than in 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

they even mentioned they thought about releasing them together (holding male viera off), but then decided to implement them 1 by 1. as iscah already stated, fem hroth didn‘t get „delayed“, we just got male viera earlier.

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That's not what I got from what he said tho. We didn't get male viera earlier, having it on 6.0 is their plan. They just couldn't get femhroth finished to be released together with male viera in 6.0. So yes, in this case femhroth is the one that is "delayed".

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Originally Posted by Fland

AFAIR they never announce something is coming on fanfest keynote for a later expansion. There might things that they gave vague answer about like "I'll talk to the team" or "We'll see the player's response" during live letters, but not in this case.

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This is a very irregular situation though. It's different to confirming a rumour about something that is purely speculative but has no reason to be confirmed.

By announcing male Viera they were left with two choices: let the fanbase spend another goodness-knows-how-long asking for female Hrothgar and/or debating their existence (with the inevitable subset either indignant or acting superior that only Viera were deemed worth completing), or short-circuit the whole lot of rage over nothing by assuring people that they will be coming at some point, regardless of when that point is.

Also it wasn't really an announcement in the usual way of showing something off, just an acknowledgement that this known thing will indeed be coming.

I also don't know where people are getting that f Hrothgar aren't even in development. They said they *weren't complete*, which is a far cry from confirming where in the development cycle they fall.

For all we know they could be at the drawing board, or just needed final rigging. We don't know.

All we do know is that male viera were complete.

You'd think we'd all have learned by now that unless they explicitly say something is coming by a certain date/patch/expansion launch, it could be 2 years or more away.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I also don't know where people are getting that f Hrothgar aren't even in development. They said they *weren't complete*, which is a far cry from confirming where in the development cycle they fall.

For all we know they could be at the drawing board, or just needed final rigging. We don't know.

All we do know is that male viera were complete.

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well they said they had their hands full with male viera and the game, although they „plan“ to find an opportunity to add them in the future.
i don‘t know, but „plan“ seems like something rather early in development...
BUT i still hope people will get them earlier. eventhough knowing that yoshi p repeatedly stated what a huge workload/resource drain races are, it seems to me more likely they’ll finish them up for 7.0 as an expansion seller.
either way, i‘ll be exited if im proven wrong, can‘t wait to see what they look like \o/

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Originally Posted by Yencat

You'd think we'd all have learned by now that unless they explicitly say something is coming by a certain date/patch/expansion launch, it could be 2 years or more away.

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Yeah...but y'know. Everyone an expert and gotta go mythbusters all over something

Female Hrothgar would look similar to the ones seen in FFX I would guess, standing up more straight with the build of a Roe I imagine.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I explained my reasoning in my previous post. It's been new races every second expansion so far, and 6.0 wouldn't get anything by that pattern; therefore getting male Viera now may be an early bonus rather than "both were supposed to be available now but one is behind schedule".

They specifically said that Viera could have been held back until both were ready, but they decided to release it individually. If anything that means they put all the work into them and haven't even started on Hrothgar yet.

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You are completely disregarding the whole covid-19 factor in this. If they decided to release both it would be mid 6.0+. However Yoshi stated it would have been to much work considering you know, covid-19. Hence why we got male viera now and female hrothgar would be in mid 6.0+.

The main factor people seem to completely disregard is that these are not "new races". These are just the opposite sexes of the race. Not an entirely new race. Take for example male Miqo'te and female Roe which were released in 2.0'ish because it wasn't a "New race" and also isn't on your "List". So no, I highly doubt female hrothgar will take until 7.0. If none of this covid-19 crap was going we could have had both by end of 5.0 or even earlier.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

The main factor people seem to completely disregard is that these are not "new races". These are just the opposite sexes of the race. Not an entirely new race. Take for example male Miqo'te and female Roe which were released in 2.0'ish because it wasn't a "New race" and also isn't on your "List". So no, I highly doubt female hrothgar will take until 7.0. If none of this covid-19 crap was going we could have had both by end of 5.0 or even earlier.

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Yoshi has stated multiple times now that a new gender is essentially a new race considering all they have to make/adjust. I'd imagine it was a much faster turnaround back then when they had significantly less stuff to adjust, which seems to be the biggest factor for even considering new genders/races.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

The main factor people seem to completely disregard is that these are not "new races". These are just the opposite sexes of the race. Not an entirely new race. Take for example male Miqo'te and female Roe which were released in 2.0'ish because it wasn't a "New race" and also isn't on your "List". So no, I highly doubt female hrothgar will take until 7.0. If none of this covid-19 crap was going we could have had both by end of 5.0 or even earlier.

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I'm saying "race" because it's shorter than "new genders for existing races". (Even the Endwalker promotional material is calling male Viera a "new playable race".) Character model is the more exact description, and it's going to be the same amount of work building new character models regardless of what new or old race they represent.

I feel like Miqo'te and Roegadyn don't necessarily count for the patch cycle because they were created during in the process of rebuilding the game for 2.0, not as part of the ongoing patch cycle.

And I greatly doubt they ever would have released it within 5.0's patch cycle even if they functionally could. Much better to use it for promotion of the next expansion – which again is a potential reason for Hrothgar to be withheld (or scheduled to be ready for 7.0 promotion) depending on how far in development they are and what sort of priority they are being treated with.

I'm not saying they will be, but you can't assume they won't be either.

And I personally think it's much better to set that long-term expectation, be patient and maybe be pleasantly surprised that it turns out to be sooner, than to hang onto it saying "it must be soon! It'll be just around the corner! I bet they're almost complete and just need to finishing touches!" when maybe they aren't at all. We don't know, and insisting it must be soon just gets people upset when it isn't soon after all.

I do remember that it was stated that the team working on mViera was to help improve the process besides just giving us the much more highly demanded missing gender

It might be a bit too hopeful and optimistic and positive or whatever, but I do feel that if said improvements stick around, we should see them sooner rather than later. That being said, I would rather the team take their time to make fHroth that much better - tho we don't yet know how stuff will look on mViera, soooo...

Wow, gone for a few days and it seems people are very invested in when they will be released.

I stick to 6.x, as it makes the most sense to me.
I see no reason for them to openly tell us their coming now "But not in 6.0" if they're gonna be the big reveal for 7.0. Would make more sense if they said, "We hope to find away to give them to you in a future expansion ..." to keep up the mystery or if YP outright said "We hope to let you play them in 7.0" if that was the plan. There's no point in being shy about it, giving people any hope for a 6.x release, if they're not coming for 2-3 years. It's the main reason I read his latest deflections of MV talk before Fanfest as a sign that they were coming in 6.0.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Aren't female Roegadyn unpopular mainly because of their face options? Its been years, but I'm pretty sure that was the most common complaint I heard about them. That and their animations/emotes not being something you'd expect. Also RoeBros look the way they do because they're based on the Galka in FFXI (minus the tail, which made them adorable). Blame the 1.0 team for that .-.

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Nah, it's not just the face.
They look like dudes or dudes wearing feminine clothing in over 60% of gear in this game, and most people who chose to play females want to look good/ like a female in w/e they wear. Simple as that. Animations wise, their animations only look "odd" because they share them with much more feminine looking females ( /Toast emote is a great example. When I look at a Femroe I don't think they would drink a mug with 2 hands and let out a girlish shake afterward. War Victory or Battle ready pose is another). Every non-Lala female, be them Highlander or Elezen or Viera, was built from the Middie-base and rig, so they often times use the same animations and poses for shared actions/ emotes.

Give them the Queen's bodyshape and that fixes many of their problems. They would still have the face features counting against them, but there's a big difference between "rare" and Femroe's current numbers.
Hell, the only explanation I can think of as to why the Queen has that body shape for that story is if that's the body of Hrothgals. That body and the mural were 2 of the flashing, glaring warning signs that "they're prob working on them...!" for me (Other warning signs being the cut in Dngs with YP going "Yeah, we don't NEED to do so many dngs ..." and stuff like the /Hmm emote having Female C@S, Male Elezen and Roebros being the only ones with unique animations for it. Roebros normally get unique animations, but it would def make sense to factor in MV and FH into emotes like that if they're working on them)

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

stuff like the /Hmm emote having Female C@S, Male Elezen and Roebros being the only ones with unique animations for it. Roebros normally get unique animations, but it would def make sense to factor in MV and FH into emotes like that if they're working on them)

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The "hmm" animation long, long predates Viera/Hrothgar and possibly even Au Ra, even though it's only become a player-accessible emote recently (and I will forever hate that giant glowing question mark). I'm fairly sure we've been doing it in cutscenes since ARR; certainly since Heavensward.

I made a post a while back asking whether it was an emote, and took these screenshots as example:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...cda923fcd6.jpg https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0cb2c1c321.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...d2843ef56c.jpg https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...ec00c29116.jpg

Female Midlander and Roegadyn have very different poses, and (having since added Miqo'te to my character collection) I can say that the male Miqo'te pose is not the same as Au Ra's even though they are similar. There are only so many ways you can do an "I am obviously thinking hard" pose.

I haven't seen Viera or Hrothgar do it but they may copy Midlander/Roegadyn as they do for many of their emotes, and Lalafells might share mirrored versions of the same animations, as they do for many of their emotes. But – admittedly without being able to test everything – my impression is that overall each race has a unique version of it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The "hmm" animation long, long predates Viera/Hrothgar and possibly even Au Ra, even though it's only become a player-accessible emote recently (and I will forever hate that giant glowing question mark). I'm fairly sure we've been doing it in cutscenes since ARR; certainly since Heavensward.

I made a post a while back asking whether it was an emote, and took these screenshots as example:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...cda923fcd6.jpg https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...0cb2c1c321.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...d2843ef56c.jpg https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...ec00c29116.jpg

Female Midlander and Roegadyn have very different poses, and (having since added Miqo'te to my character collection) I can say that the male Miqo'te pose is not the same as Au Ra's even though they are similar. There are only so many ways you can do an "I am obviously thinking hard" pose.

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Huh, seems I was wrong on that theory then.
But no, there are countless ways to make a "thinking hard" animation. You're only limited by the amount of time and effort you put into it as an animator. But here are the animations if you want to watch em.

You may have hope... I want to have hope too, just don't get disappointed when live letter after live letter they aren't announced. That's why I think they'll come in 7.0, It's an expansion selling feature. I can't see them just adding it in a patch.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Huh, seems I was wrong on that theory then.
But no, there are countless ways to make a "thinking hard" animation. You're only limited by the amount of time and effort you put into it as an animator.

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I should clarify – it's clear that the "think" and "hmm" animations are for different purposes. The original think emote is a lot more varied and animated: characters pace around or show some personality. The hmm emote seems to be a more uniform "stand in place and make a thoughtful expression" that can reliably be used in cutscenes to show a specific emotion and not have the character wander out of shot while they do it.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

That's kind of why I think that no matter what body type f Hrothgar will take they will be popular for the people who want that beast lady race. Small, large, high feminine, or brick breaking masculine those players will adapt and fanta.

Fem Roes don't really call back to any specific fantasy that has an established following.

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Nah.
Hrothgar, as a race, were made as an attempt to make this game more appealing to the Western market. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say that factored into why they have the silly WoW hunch (And to an extent why the devs interest in making a Beast race was sparked by player's reactions to Lupin's concept art ... yet somehow they went with Big WoW hunched Khajiit over "WoW hunched Wolf People" seeing as WoW has that. But that's completely speculative af, I'm sure not wanting to lock ALL headgear played a big part in them picking the flat-ish faced cats over wolves).

Many people who play MMOs and WANT to play furry females prob don't play this game yet, so reaching those people would be the goal. As for "playing no matter what" that's a big ol nope. It's been shown time and time again that people are far more critical of the female form, and it's appeal, than they are of males. WoW players meme about how "Female dwarves don't exist" and when asked why they are so much few in numbers people can list off reason after reason such as "Ugly!/ Bad animations!" and so on, but these reasons didn't stop people from playing male Dwarves.

You see it in GW2, where Charr males (last I checked) were basically tied for 2nd most played males in the game, yet Charr females were still by far the least played thing in the game. Heck, you see it in this very game, where Roe Bros and Elezen Males and Highlander males are more played than their female counterparts. Just look at what happened in ShB, people who wanted to play a REALLY tall woman only had Elezen and Femroe as options ... they didn't grit their teeth and play something they didn't like the look of, they simply played smaller females until SE released something they liked.

So no, I don't think there's anyway you can take the furry fanbase for granted on this. You can easily like furry females but have zero interest in playing a "brick breaking masculine" women with a furry face.

EDIT- This reminds me of why I'm so hyped for Female Hrothgar.
Cause ... I can't think of a single big MMO that tried to tap into that attractive furry look. ESO has a gritty, bland, realistic Euro-fantasy look so it's not trying to be a "pretty" game. WoW? Their Werewolves are snarling, rabies infested looking beast, and their other furries are either doppy/ goofy looking or they go for the cute smoll animal look with the Foxes. GW2? Charr also look like Snarling rabies beast (but this time as "Animal Monster" over "Animal person"). The only MMO that comes to mind when thinking of attempts at attractive furries is Bless with Pantera and that game is forever DOA. Closest I've seen to an MMO get was EQN with their Lion Race (never got to see the females but the dudes def looked like cartoon furries for the most part)

Hrothgar males though? They look like cute, attractive and dignified furries. This is likely in part because of the devs making them fit the FF14 "Everything is pretty" aesthetics. They very much match the Furry Bara style, and as such it's easy to see why so many who like that gravitate to them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I should clarify – it's clear that the "think" and "hmm" animations are for different purposes. The original think emote is a lot more varied and animated: characters pace around or show some personality. The hmm emote seems to be a more uniform "stand in place and make a thoughtful expression" that can reliably be used in cutscenes to show a specific emotion and not have the character wander out of shot while they do it.

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Ah, I get what you're saying now.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

So no, I don't think there's anyway you can take the furry fanbase for granted on this. You can easily like furry females but have zero interest in playing a "brick breaking masculine" women with a furry face.

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As a furry myself (I know, burn me at the stake), I switched off Hrothgar because they were too bulky and big for my taste. So I can support what you are saying. Too bad we didn't get Lupin instead, I feel like their physique is better to work with.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

As a furry myself (I know, burn me at the stake), I switched off Hrothgar because they were too bulky and big for my taste. So I can support what you are saying. Too bad we didn't get Lupin instead, I feel like their physique is better to work with.

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I was going to bring this up! It's easy to forget after the player base has their new toys to play with, but I remember the state of the forums from long ago. How Lupin seemed like the driving force behind the "Beast Race" push that embodied a number of FF races back when we were all debating over Viera or something beast like. I remember checking up on many boards and communities after Hrothgar were revealed, and MANY people were disappointed. "This is the ONLY furry race, why do another cat race!?! Why are they so big? Lupin was right there, just fix up the model! At the very least, could they make a smaller clan that has a thinner frame?". Someone who was playing with a Lupin modded Human said they were gonna stick with their mod, and I could understand why.

That's why I find it so strange that ... YP cited people's interest and reaction to Lupin as the thing that got them to making a beast race, only to end up making WoW hunched Khajiit. Like, yeah, they def got the Cat Bara-furries attention, but there's many who are not interested and that body shape who were pulling for Lupin because they look more like their style which is more the norm.

I'm also a furry, and I also played Femroe from ARR up to ShB where I played Hrothgar for 5.0. I want to be able to play these females without barring over 60% of all tops in this game because they look bad on my character/ they make my character look like a dude. I don't want to go back to making 2B bottoms the theme to my whole wardrobe because "they're the only way to get curves". Furthermore, I want furries to play and enjoy them. This race shouldn't be for people who felt slighted by Roe's failings. (And before anyone brings up Roebro's serving as a base, Draggo bois def come across as "attempt at a better tall race" whereas the females are the most petite non-lalas in the game. Cause the point of that race is to be scaley/ demonic)

Like, we all know that people are hyper critical of female forms. Making a masculine, Femroe-buff-or-more female furry is just begging for them to be far less played than Femroe. Throwing away the potential to appeal to such a big and diverse group just because "they're not going to be popular, so why not throw the people who want a more masculine shape a bone?" just seems duplicitous. Everything about this game screams to me that the devs know how hyper critical players are of females and to some level feel it themselves, so that's why I think the mural and Queen's body are in the game. These are our signs at what to expect.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

snip

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Thank you for the thorough response, that was a joy to read. :)

Tbh I think people being overly critical of the female form speaks a lot more about the people, than the female forms themselves, but that's a whole other can of worms

https://media.tenor.com/images/e3d28...b254/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Thank you for the thorough response, that was a joy to read. :)

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Thank you for reading my Ted talk, I try to put a lot of thought into these rambles!

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Tbh I think people being overly critical of the female form speaks a lot more about the people, than the female forms themselves, but that's a whole other can of worms

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No, that's a can of worms you can open up here. This game has zero true body shape customization with in a race beyond how tall you are, your tail type (if you have a tail) and how big your boobs are. I believe WoW is pretty much in the same boat.
So when you make a race, you're asking everyone who can possibly be interested in the core idea of said race to also be happy with the 1 single body shape you give them (Tis why WoW has so much Sexual Dimorphism). That race's shape and animation dictate how everything in the game looks on them.

That's not a problem in something like PSO2, where you can make a tiny skinny girl or a huge, fat women from the same model. In NGS they doubled down on the "do w/e you what" freedom, you can use men's bodies for women or female faces for men or w/e you want. You can have your Chris Evens looking dude do female animations and runs.

Games like GW2 and Wild Star (RIP) are not as extreme, but take more of a middle road. They give you some wiggle room in how your character's body is shaped yet also maintain that X race generally has w/e aesthetic. You could make a skinny, TOP HEAVY rock women if you wanted to or a thick, pair shaped one or w/e.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the very core of this game's and WoW's CC systems encourages people to be hyper critical of their options. When you're that limited in options, if you don't personally like the shape of w/e race, there's just nothing you can do about it other than not play it. You combat this by giving people MORE freedom in customizing how their character's body shape looks with in the race. Give people the ability to make a curvy, feminine Femroe with more than 4 whole faces to pick from, and I'm sure more people would be willing to play them. If Elezen Females had an option for a body shape that had Viera head/ neck/ arm proportions, I'm sure they would be FAR more popular.

But this game, with its current systems/ engine, simply can't do that. I believe this is why YP said that if they ever wanted to add CC options to a race, they would have to be with in reason because if you change too much you would be better off making a new race for that amount of effort. That's what people should be asking for in the future with a new engine for FF14, not for SE to devote the time and man power to gimp the core appeal of a race just to please a niche inside a niche.

Poo pooing that people who play males are more liberal with their taste in shape than people who play females isn't really a stance to take.

We still don't know what they are going to look like. Male Hrothgar are niche. Female Hrothgar are also probably going to be niche. It's impossible from this point in time to say what they will be modeled off, but there is more evidence than not to suggest they will model off of femRoe.

If that's not what a lot of people want then that's fine. The arguments about locked-in body types and appeal is probably even more of a reason for them to be more bulked than not, but that's neither here nor there.

The people who are foaming at the mouth to play a beast lady are going to have to decide to make do or go without.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

We still don't know what they are going to look like. Male Hrothgar are niche. Female Hrothgar are also probably going to be niche. It's impossible from this point in time to say what they will be modeled off, but there is more evidence than not to suggest they will model off of femRoe.

If that's not what a lot of people want then that's fine. The arguments about locked-in body types and appeal is probably even more of a reason for them to be more bulked than not, but that's neither here nor there.

The people who are foaming at the mouth to play a beast lady are going to have to decide to make do or go without.

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If I dont get the tall strong badass Female Beastman Warrior I want and dream for, Ill be sad beyond belief...but Ill get over it.
The only thing they can do to truly Kill Female Hrothgar is to make them cutie, small anime waifu's with human faces. This is the ONLY thing that will 100% kill them for me, and Ill likely stay a FemRoe cause its the only bloody option ill get for what Im looking for.

Ill harp about how I want the body to look, but it wont be the end of the world.
But...I am getting bored of all the back and forth about peoples views on the female form, and about SE's making a choice on money...I just wanna fricking see them already.
Even vauge concept art to see their many ideas like way back in Heavenward when they showed off how Au-Ra COULD have looked. I just want something besides "Dont worry, they are coming" and here we are debating and fighting over it.
Just...give me something....

The artist karmaho does an excellent job at what femhroths would look like if the devs were actually cool.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

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I feel you. :(

I would kind of like it if they were between fem roe and female highlander, insofar as muscle/mass since there seems to be a big gap between them that fem hroths could fill. Again, though, that's just another opinion based on literally nothing because SE's lips have been sealed tight.

Drop some concept art on us, damnit! Not knowing is worse than anything.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Drop some concept art on us, damnit! Not knowing is worse than anything.

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I feel you, the wait is hard. But considering how far the final version of the Au Ra shifted from their concept art, maybe it's good we're not seeing any. It would just get people hyped for something other than what we'll probably get.

https://i.postimg.cc/4dNb4wTT/daat1a...1d1957ea0e.jpg

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Originally Posted by ItMe

It would just get people hyped for something other than what we'll probably get.

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I won't lie, big reason I feel nothing but bitter about au ra to this day.

I can see why they toned it down. They honestly look too much like voidsent. If they get an overhaul to their looks I hope they'll let us have more dragon-ish options.
But knowing yoshida and his unwillingness to upgrade the engine that'll never happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I feel you, the wait is hard. But considering how far the final version of the Au Ra shifted from their concept art, maybe it's good we're not seeing any. It would just get people hyped for something other than what we'll probably get.

https://i.postimg.cc/4dNb4wTT/daat1a...1d1957ea0e.jpg

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In all honesty the concepts on the bottom are pretty close to what we got.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

I feel you, the wait is hard. But considering how far the final version of the Au Ra shifted from their concept art, maybe it's good we're not seeing any.

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At this point, I just want to SEE that they are working on it, even if still in the Concept Sketching/Planning Phase.
I like sketches, I love seeing the artist progress and what ideas they muse over. Even if the final product is 100% different, it at least would be nice to see what direction they are going or at least considering.
Would give us a good look at different body types, some future gear, and the most important...why type of faces, maybe markings and hair are on the table.

See THAT would be alot more fun to debate and have a discussion on, instead of that Mural in Bozja.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

We still don't know what they are going to look like. Male Hrothgar are niche. Female Hrothgar are also probably going to be niche. It's impossible from this point in time to say what they will be modeled off, but there is more evidence than not to suggest they will model off of femRoe.

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It's more appropriate to say that they will be built on Middie body because that's how all females are made that are not Lala due to having the same rig. Viera look incredibly identical to Elezen, but they still built them from Middie base because they mostly use Middie to make clothing and alter those measurements for everything else. (sometimes, they use Lala, which results in things that look meh on anything that's not Lala)
As for evidence, this is all we have and if that queen body is what you're referring to then I'd think most would be happy with that.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

See THAT would be alot more fun to debate and have a discussion on, instead of that Mural in Bozja.

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You also have the Femroe Bozja Queen to look at, who has a unique body that matches said mural. There's really no other reason for that in the context of that story that I can see.