"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

And? That's still active sabotage if they refuse and get pissy about it by not tanking. It's not rocket science.

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yeah but thats why they created a way to leave a run lol. im more then willing to take a half hour hit then run with a tank with a toxic view

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

it can be seen as insecur but i think Puc is saying. "hey this is my role, let me do it".

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the topic is not about people pulling and making tank life hard, the topic is about of tanks being rude.
Once again, if u dont like something, u should first ask politely and dont straight forward go into the "Karen" mode.

It depends on the content really, its not so much important in Deep Dungeons... certain raids I guess it can be, but allit take for a tank is to hit the mob once.... there is no need to pull mobs in dungeons for DPS/Heals at all, unless the tank need to get his or her grip together and actually TANK the dungeon.

Seen those 1 mob pull tanks as well or one group only... GET ON WITH IT!!!! we got your back.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yes aggro is taken in a single button, but on my pulls my aggro list is generally full so I might not see that one that a DPS decided to ST burst instead of aoe.

And then proceeded to NOT bring them into my aoe kill zone. They didn't take an ounce of effort so why should I?

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Yeah that's the thing. If someone grabs and brings them around, oh okay there are mobs, aoe aoe, we're good. They pull when I'm lagging a bit zoning, run off, pull more, keep running...there's a certain point where they're just being stupid. I say as a healer I can't heal stupid. When I tank I can't Rampart it either. I think one thing that all roles need, tanks included, is situational awareness of the party. I've died on a boss as a healer, been on my way back, and the tank is just full speed ahead not realizing I'm not there. Then complains there are no heals. Or I've seen one dps pull when I'm the other dps or the healer and the tank has either said "brb" or they've DC'd. It really all comes down to situational awareness.

YPYT tanks are literally inventing the pulling "role", courtesy of absolutely nothing official, and claiming they aren't the ones hindering play/failing to do their duties.

Here's the most that has ever been officially said about Tanks, as a role:

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

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Skilled at keeping a foe's attention and bearing the brunt of enemy attacks.

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Nothing there says anything about pulling. It IS explicit that you are to

- keep the foe's attention
And
- bear the brunt of enemy attacks

Now, I invite anyone ITT who defends/supports YPYT to find anything, in game or on the official sites, that says ANYTHING about responsibilities as to pulling. If you can find that, I'll keep my peace.

No, alleging that it is some sort of "unspoken rule" that tanks are "supposed" to pull doesn't change the fact that this is an unofficial term thrown on by the community. Nobody is bound to unofficial community rules; you ARE bound to the job description, just as much as a healer is to heal or a DPS is to do damage as quickly as they can.

No, liberal application/interpretation of vague statements about affecting others' play doesn't count, because if it does, by YPYTing you are the only one demonstrably acting against what little guidance we have as to role responsibilities, i.e. you are either or both of not keeping foes' attention nor bearing enemy attacks. Nothing there says anything about who initially got the foes' attention, just that you're to keep it; nothing saying anything about only taking attacks from enemies you feel like, just bearing enemy attacks (with what I should hope is the obvious unspoken fact of it being ALL enemy attacks, but I know this will be waved away).

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Originally Posted by Puc

If I'm tanking, then that means I'M tanking, if you want to tank then you can go ahead and tank, doesn't even matter to me if I get kicked since I have fast queue times. DPS need to stay in their place just like healers. If the healer wants to heal the dps then by all means go right on and get the next mob while i turn off my stance and dps more.

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Id not only kick you, I’d report you also. Your place is to tank, regardless of who pulls. If you choose not to, you aren’t playing the role you signed up for. I’ll consider that griefing and a refusal to play


edited for iphones autocorrect

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Originally Posted by KatiaRelanah

I understand "both sides" just fine. I'm simply saying that if we measure it as a "which side has more "selfish" people" scale, one only serves the desires of a single person: the other serves upwards of 3 others. In which case, only one of these scenarios is actually selfish, and it's not the one where only 1 member out of 4 is "injured".

To be sure, there's actually still more granularity possible (what if TANK is pulling hard, but HEALER is the one that can't keep up?) But even this is uneven, because Healer might lack their full skill set, making it a technical/numerical limitation, or lack the reaction time/awareness to keep up with tank's health plummeting out of nowhere.

But in most content, and ironically ESPECIALLY in the lower level content even though you use that as a "well people are still learning" defense, even if you never pop mits you can survive 2-3 trash pulls easily as a tank, given healer is marginally competent/aware and DPS are taking stuff down quickly enough. So Tank, in these cases, is slowing down everyone not out of legitimate limitations (as might be the case with healer) but because of their ignorance (in the literal sense, i.e. not being aware of something). They could stand still and not so much as attack, themselves, and if tank stance was enough to grab aggro itself and/or you didn't at least need to do SOME attacks to keep it up, they'd be fine. So the only issue then is psychological. And while it's a shame some people are so anxious about their abilities, no one in the public game instance is there to babysit you, as a person. They're there to complete the duty. However, your character, as a tank, IS supposed to babysit everyone else in-duty.

I'll say it again, isolated this time: tank's job is to have enemies attack them rather than other party members.

Pulling isn't in anyone's job description. Taking aggro is. Refusing to take aggro, regardless of why the bad guys are attacking, means you're not doing your job. Simple as.

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I believe that mentality is why dungeon mechincas are so braindead easy, atleast so far your not expecting people to use their brain and calculate in their head how much damage the mops do at theirm max divided by how much the healer can heal you for on avarage. then throwing in the math of how you degress damage with cooldowns and the such. I think that mentality right there needs to end, so things can be made more diffuclt expect people to use a little brain cells, and education when you play through content. I mean come on expect a little educational ability from people, games rated 13+ thats around the time you should understand simple things.



Like I get it, its a game but there comes a time where this mentality that its babysitting if someone doesnt massively pull is just wow i don't even know hjow to say this nicely, its like Praising people to stay dumb.

its game so it should be fun yes, however it should expect some basic motorskills, and common sense to look at the numbers if you actrually want things to be more fun futurewise, you should really start expecting more from people not just massive trash mops, but they need to require abilitys and skill sets from people to look at the numbers, and reading understanding abilitys.


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ps I'm sorry but this mentality, that a tank should pull a massive roomi braindeadlyh throwing tomhawk, poping a cd aoeing to hold until it dies rinse repeat while dodging red spots Is not GOOD, you should be supporting people going slow and playing smart if people expect some actrual learning and abiliity growth instend of repeating the same circle in every dungeon things could be amazing.

I'm sorry but I will never support the mentality that just breeds stupidity

The idea of it totally. But it came from older games where you had to work to get agro. In this game, you hit them once with your stance on and your golden. So, in that sense, the idea of it is a corpse in the grave. But back in the day, it mattered because you were making the job harder for no reason. But again, it's a thing of the past. If this was 2.0 FFXIV, I would let you die to teach you a lesson as either the tank or the healer, but now I'll just roll with it.

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Originally Posted by Puc

If I'm tanking, then that means I'M tanking, if you want to tank then you can go ahead and tank, doesn't even matter to me if I get kicked since I have fast queue times. DPS need to stay in their place just like healers. If the healer wants to heal the dps then by all means go right on and get the next mob while i turn off my stance and dps more.

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Being a tank is a thankless job. As a tank, your job is to...well, tank. That is all. In my opinion, if others are pulling for their tank, then said tank isn't moving fast enough. If a tank keeps going at a decent pace, most will be content to simply follow. The whole "you pull it, you tank it" mentality only causes things to go needlessly slower and become far more stressful than it needs to be for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted by Puc

Not satisfaction, but to send a message.

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Then do your job correctly so the dps don't have to fill the role.