What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Brinne

And for better or worse, I'm still talking about it and thinking about it actively, moreso, again, than any other expansion besides ShB - six months after the fact. Does that say more about me or the game? It Is A Mystery.

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The truth of the matter is, none of us would be here talking about it at such length if we didn't, if not now but at one time or another, love and care about the game. I was always a little baffled by the "you can't like it if you criticise it!" comments, as it's precisely because I care that I voice what bothers me, in the hope that it might grow and change for the better.

I'd also consider MMO's to be a different beast to other genres of games. I was incredibly disappointed with Cyberpunk 2077. I bought it on release, realised I'd been lied to by the marketing department, encountered all sorts of bizarre bugs and it ended up being the only game I sought a refund for. Though I didn't think of it again until now because although I was left disappointed, there wasn't much investment.

Whereas with FFXIV, there's a lot of stuff in the setting that I do like and have enjoyed. I just wish things had been utilised better and the 'despair' angle had been a bit more tactful. That and I'm still quietly hopeful that maybe it will improve in ways I like as of 6.2 and beyond. For that to happen, though, people need to speak up - and that's precisely what we're doing here.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Considering you can get banned from certain 14 discords for expressing a critical view of nearly any aspect of the story/characters; it's pretty frustrating. Not sure if it's always been this way, but theres' A LOT of varying types of people that play the game. Imo that's part of the reason for the hyper defensiveness. Also to be fair, a number of people have even commented that people in this thread push de-scenting opinions out that aren't critical. Regardless if that's actually the case or not, people get that impression. Being critical or debating can easily be construed as trolling or looking for a fight/drama; quite sad if you ask me.

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To be perfectly honest, for me, it's true that sometimes this thread and others like it become so embroiled in raw negativity and kind of weird ways of talking about the devs that I have to bow out for a while. I know it's the nature of the beast, especially a discussion that's gone on for this long, and, you know - given that the very premise is being a complaint/vent thread. But hey, as far as public forums for this game go, they're also one of the only places that don't feel entirely futile to post a tl;dr when the urge for vomiting words hits me, so.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

To be perfectly honest, for me, it's true that sometimes this thread and others like it become so embroiled in raw negativity and kind of weird ways of talking about the devs that I have to bow out for a while. I know it's the nature of the beast, especially a discussion that's gone on for this long, and, you know - given that the very premise is being a complaint/vent thread. But hey, as far as public forums for this game go, they're also one of the only places that don't feel entirely futile to post a tl;dr when the urge for vomiting words hits me, so.

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Same. That's why I don't hesitate to speak up when the echo chamber of salt and negativity gets started. Eventually it becomes a contest of "who can say the most negative-sounding words about the game/plot/characters/devs for the highest upvotes"?

Ninety percent of the time, the topic and the people in it are chill. But that ten percent rolls in quick.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I don't actually disagree with the forums being a hotbed of trolling, there are typically some fairly dire posts on the front page containing varying levels of spite, vitriol or complete nonsense, and when you view the JP forums by comparison it is actually embarrassing to witness. It also seems to have gotten much worse lately, possibly in relation to the game's increased popularity.

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They take their more critical commentary to other sites. This site could benefit from better moderation and CM engagement but between this, and sites like Reddit or MMO-Champ? I vastly prefer it.

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I just don't bother engaging with it. Knowing my place in such spaces is tolerated so long as I join in the bland positivity of glamour screenshots and fluff comics and don't breathe a word against one's beloved comfort character/ plot point isn't a particularly fulfilling or enjoyable experience, and it's at the point now where I'll scroll through feeds and everyone just talks and sounds exactly the same anyway.

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One way of saying Reddit (or Twitter) without saying Reddit (or Twitter). :p

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Did she even read the thread? She only looked at the title in that clip. Seems like an odd thing to call a troll post considering she pointed out the page length.

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Not on stream anyway. Not sure if she'd looked at it other than that because she did dismiss it in a handwaving manner.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I find it ironic that she of all people would make such a statement after she was one of the only ones who was openly displeased with how the Elpis storyline played out; mostly in regards to how it generated false hope and entertained the possibility of change without it actually happening (Unless it did create an alternate timeline but they simply haven't shown it to us yet).

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It's disappointing. I still maintain hers was the only based reaction to Endwalker and it's a shame that, like Rich, she probably had to walk back her own opinions lest she sour relations with her audience. This community can be quite unforgiving for 'wrongthink'.

I haven't watched her since Pandemonium, but at least at that time she was disappointed with how the Ancients' storyline ended to the extent of joking we should summon another Zodiark to bring them back. :P

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Zepla can think whatever she wants, since she never actually read the the thread and just looked at the title.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

One of the problems I have with trying to discuss criticisms with this game's writing in most places outside of here is that 99% of the people who dislike the story dislike it soley because they have to "read". Too many times do I see complaints from people who complain about the story, or streamers, does their complaint ultimately boil down to "too much reading, if it was fully voiced acted it'd be good tho". Ask them about any actual deeper criticisms and they'll just repeat "I hate having to read so much, I'd have no problem if it was voiced completely". I have seen people trash the story soley because of the reading involved then go on to praise GW2 because it's fully voice acted (this is despite the fact that GW2 is almost universally reviled for some of worst writing in MMOs, if not video game, history, and the voice acting is extremely cringe outside of a few talent actors like Steve Blum).

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The solution here, then, seems quite obvious to me...

What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker? – A Dramatic reading: Part 1 of 105

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Originally Posted by Teraq

The solution here, then, seems quite obvious to me...

What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker? – A Dramatic reading: Part 1 of 105

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If nothing else it would prove to be an entertaining stream. Though I imagine the current gushing over "Tweetingway" taking over the official FFXIV twitter today will probably take priority.

Eh. That could go either way, to be honest.

There’s definitely some cringe posts on this thread that would damper some of the otherwise good discourse if revisited. The constant potshots at social media, numerous unnecessary insults toward the writers, infighting between posters, and other things I’ll leave unmentioned.

I just find it amusing that after having largely seen the FFXIV fandom through the scope of Reddit and Twitter since I started playing, the one place I feel that is actually a safe space for my opinion wound up to be the much maligned, horrible, no-good official forums, also known as this dire hive of scum and villainy literally everyone got banned from, somehow.

I'd much rather be here than on a space like Reddit with its downvote pile-ons, or Twitter with its... weirdly puritanical corners of the fanbase.

But frankly, when I look at the overall positive response to the Endwalker story, I feel like I'm living in some sort of bizarro world. I cope by thinking it's an Emperor's New Clothes kind of deal. I want this thread to be noticed so hopefully some lurkers and bystanders can glance in and realize "oh... so it's not just me thinking the emperor isn't wearing much".