Parsers add replayability for casual players

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

One of the big problems of the current vote kick system is that that non-targeted idea. They've giving the kickee no say and allowing just two people who gang up to overrule the other two people who were also in the party.

Vote kick needs to be adjusted as a majority of the total size of the party. So 3/4 for 4-person and 5/8 for 8-man.

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Then you get the opposite problem where it becomes impossible to kick players who queue with their friends. A prime example came from TalesofDF just today where a DPS refused to attack because the tank did big pulls (baffling, I know). They rightfully kicked him and the other DPS demanded they kick him too because "you just kicked my friend." In your proposed change, the tank and healer have no recourse but for one of them to take a 30 minute penalty for literally no reason or kowtow to these two players.

While the current system has its problems. It's better than the alternative.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Then you get the opposite problem where it becomes impossible to kick players who queue with their friends. A prime example came from TalesofDF just today where a DPS refused to attack because the tank did big pulls (baffling, I know). They rightfully kicked him and the other DPS demanded they kick him too because "you just kicked my friend." In your proposed change, the tank and healer have no recourse but for one of them to take a 30 minute penalty for literally no reason or kowtow to these two players.

While the current system has its problems. It's better than the alternative.

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I respectfully disagree. I've had too many instances where I was the ignored third vote of no when two others ganged up on someone else. And were sometimes nasty and negative in chat after they gave them the boot. And I had no choice in those cases but to take a 30 minute penalty for no reason because that's the only way the game allows me to be an active participant in the choice.

There's this show on really late on Game Show Network called Divided. There are four people who answer questions and then they vote one off. Everyone gets a vote. And if it's split, you have to convince others around to your side. That's what they need to do. If they really want someone gone, then convince me.

In the case you're talking about, the dps stopped attacking and seems like (unless like in that case where the kickee was also with a friend) it would be a pretty solid consensus to boot them. Things just aren't balanced the way they are right now when four people participate but the input of only two matters.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

A full group using only single target abilities would still clear an expert dungeon easily. Only way to fail one of those dungeons is for most of the group to not be playing at all.

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No it won't. Especially if they are not with good gear, the tank will run out of defences (and we take into consideration that the tank will use their cds) and the healer will run out of mana to sustain the tank. Usually, players who know how to deal good single targeted damage also know how to use AoE and vice versa. It is completely safe to assume that someone who uses single targeted abilities against 4-5 mobs is going to be actually dealing incredibly little single targeted damage. Maybe all they do is press 1,2,1,2 and shut their brains down. So they wipe against one wave of mobs. Also dps not aoe-ing a pack of mobs deserves a healer who is never using aoe to heal and often missclicks targets. This bad. And a cure bot cannot sustain the whole party for the last boss.

When you are queueing for expert you should know the basics of your class at least.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

PF groups are used for more than just extreme dungeons.

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Indeed they are, go make a party and write into the description "I want to get carried and do nothing for the Heroes Gauntlet". See how many will join. When you get into a party via duty finder, you should do your duty.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

One of the big problems of the current vote kick system is that that non-targeted idea. They've giving the kickee no say and allowing just two people who gang up to overrule the other two people who were also in the party.

Vote kick needs to be adjusted as a majority of the total size of the party. So 3/4 for 4-person and 5/8 for 8-man.

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It is not.
The kickee voice does -not- matter in such situation. Majority doesn’t wish the kickee presence for whatever reason. That alone is enough to warrant a kick. So it’s actually 1, 2 or 3 out of 3 in votes. If the kickee voice -really- matters, why do you think they made the vote dismiss system in a way that the kickee won’t even know they’re being voted?

We've strayed from the argument at hand into the territory of kicking. Interesting discussion, but irrelevant to the topic. Although I feel as though the pro parser crowd has made a much stronger argument and not much remains to be said outside of thrashing the anti parser crowd's argument further.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Indeed they are, go make a party and write into the description "I want to get carried and do nothing for the Heroes Gauntlet". See how many will join. When you get into a party via duty finder, you should do your duty.

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This makes no sense given the context of what I was replying to - someone mentioned that if someone is hampering progress in a PF that they reserve the right to kick.

You then responded with “What progress?” and then brought out an example that is specific to Extreme Dungeons. To which I replied “PF is used for more than just extreme content.”

Nothing I said indicates that I don’t believe someone should be doing their duty in duty finder.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

This makes no sense given the context of what I was replying to - someone mentioned that if someone is hampering progress in a PF that they reserve the right to kick.

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Neither I nor Seera1024(that someone you are talking about) ever mentioned extreme dungeons. I was discussing expert.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

Duty finder kicks should be limited as you get what you get in duty finder and should only kicking if progress is significantly hampered.

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She was talking about df as well, not only pf.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It's about the mentality of the players, which then gets applied to roulettes in this game and in these forums (which I've been reading from certain 'pro-parser' players here a lot ... complaining about level 77 tanks, for example)

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

what's wrong with expecting that a level 77 tank, who has spent 10+ hours on leveling said class, to play their class at a decent level?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Define 'decent level' without referring to a parser.

You can't have it both ways. Either a parser is only used for weeding out end-game players, or it is used for weeding out players you'll 'tolerate' in non-end-game roulette.

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Huh? You know exactly why that 77lvl tank got called out. Yet you just kept defending bad play. He couldn't take the aggro of 3 mobs. You know that this is not halfway decent, I bet you have kicked tanks for that. I am certain of it cuz you are a hypocrite. Just pretending to be nice to people. In fact, you are one of the many who use passive-aggressiveness to express themselves. It must be a living hell, always hiding your evil intends behind nice words.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Neither I nor Seera1024(that someone you are talking about) ever mentioned extreme dungeons. I was discussing expert.



She was talking about df as well, not only pf.

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I meant expert, it’s like 5 am.

Quick tip though:
Hop off with the pedantics, my guy, makes you look like you can’t actually think of something to say.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Quick tip though:
Hop off with the pedantics, my guy, makes you look like you can’t actually think of something to say.

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Just accept you made a mistake and move on. It confused me at first because Hard dungeons exist, I figured there might be extreme dungeons that I've never heard of.