Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

You just can't argure with someone who wants to do the bare minimum.
Standing there watching hp bars is not an effective use of your time. Hoping the devs agree with you and remove clerics so you have an excuse to be lazy makes it even more pathetic.

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Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

I could understand if people enjoy juggling clerics but personally I find it annoying. People talk of the risk vs reward thing that clerics brings but I don't really see that either while I'm playing scholar. Might just be me but whatever.

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

I could understand if people enjoy juggling clerics but personally I find it annoying. People talk of the risk vs reward thing that clerics brings but I don't really see that either while I'm playing scholar. Might just be me but whatever.

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I imagine that remark was aimed at people who'd still refuse to DPS. Without Cleric, the go to excuse has been removed and healers not DPSing would look lazy by comparison.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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'I'm a HEALER I pay for this SUB and it is perfectly ACCEPTABLE for me to stand around and do NOTHING for the whole dungeon'

Alternative SCH version:

'I have my pet on SIC DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY JOB'

However, CS could use a revamp. That five seconds cooldown is pretty bad. I'd rather have it cost MP to toggle on and off.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

Hey I'd be all for it too if my whm dps didn't suffer. But most of the people who cry about being asked to dps want clerics gone. Those are the people I'm talking about. Anyone who WANTS to dps as a healer makes CS work unlike those who say "I'm a healer not a dps"

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If you want to find out the true value of any class in this game, take it into Deep Dungeon solo.

Healer is kind of overpower in a way, but also imo the most complete job. Regen is an insta cast and heals for basically 100% of your entire health in seconds. Meanwhile, one insta click into Cleric stance and i'm dishing out 3-5k dmg a hit with Stone III. The DoT of Aero works especially well on top of it all along with Regen.

It feels goooooood.

That said, the cleric stance icon gets easily buried in all the buff icons during party content, and in particularly tense moments, if my finger slips .. i mean, i can't be staring at the keyboard you know? Or if i mash it twice or anything really, maybe i don't see it's still on for a few seconds because it's buried in all the icons and such, and those few seconds can get the whole party killed. Now in part it's cool that it's on me for needing to keep cool under pressure ... but at the same time,i do think that the dancing mechanic could be a bit easier to manage somehow than it is...

At the very least, these UI chances the devs have mentioned specifically for stormblood ... something ...anything to make it more obvious when i am or am not in cleric would be great....

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Why do ppl keep referring to the removal of clerics as an excuse to be lazy. Its meant to give more of an initiative to dps as mind becomes the scaling factor for damage. People who otherwise wouldnt dps might be more inclined to do so obviously not everyone will. The ones that still DPS just have one less skill bloat to worry about.

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Except in a bubble that wouldn't work. I don't mind the removal (preferably overhauling instead) of cleric, so long as it comes with a drastic shift to the healing meta, with more for healers to do, and more relevance to not DPS.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

But a tanks got VIT buff still will have to stance dance, so I think the example is not complete relevant.

Moreover, in 3 healers SCH has a great advantage that it required the leaset CS switching as a result more dps output, so after CS removing I suspect you will like AST or WHM more but not SCH..haha

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I main a WAR, I barely ever stance dance, either I am on one stance as MT or another as OT. But it doesn't really diminish my returns as much as not being in the correct stance as a healer does.
Also I got my hands full in either stance as a WAR and don't really need to feel awkward or inadequate, I am self satisfied with my output. I am great at it. And most if not all times I get minimum of 3 recommends.

But as a healer ... them eyes ... EYES looking at me just standing around with EXPECTATIONS. Argh.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Except in a bubble that wouldn't work. I don't mind the removal (preferably overhauling instead) of cleric, so long as it comes with a drastic shift to the healing meta, with more for healers to do, and more relevance to not DPS.

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Aye yep, 100% agreed with that, the removal of CS and basing DPS abilities off of MND would help me no end, but I'm not sure it's actually going to make much of a difference to the 'no dps' crowd. It's easy to argue that dropping some of the difficulty in DPSing could even raise expectations and pressure on healers who aren't feeling it.

Thus the need for more logical alternatives, channeled buffs, dps abilities that have tangible benefits to both yourself and the party etc.

I'm generally in favor of giving healers more support options to fill "empty" globals rather than DPS, but there's a few pitfalls with that:

1.) %-based buffs have vastly diminishing returns on players of lower skill. A 50% damage increase on someone performing in the lowest quartile of DPS isn't going to be more beneficial to the group than if the healer was skilled, efficient, and maximizing Cleric Stance DPS.

2.) A flat numbers buff (ie "increases the damage of the next five skills by 500") is horribly wasted on DPS who know how to optimize, especially if those DPS are already using one of their own percentage-based buffs like Raging Strikes (x amount of extra damage on a Raging Strikes Fire IV would likely not even come CLOSE to the amount of damage a %-based increase would).

3.) Potency buffs might work, where a healer could give a buff that say "increases the potency of the next five spells or weapon skills by 50", but I feel like that would require some coordination on the part of the group to pull off. You don't want to buff a BLM's Umbral Ice phase or a MCH without ammo, for instance. It also wouldn't play nicely with SMN, who has pretty crap base potencies and an independent source of DPS (the pet), so there's more things to consider.

4.) Juggling the balance off buff uptime, efficacy, and healing would be tough for the developers, I'd reckon, and again highly influenced by player skill. Bad healers would have less globals for buffing, because they'd be doing extra globals to compromise for healing inefficiency. If buff timers are super short (2-3 globals), then there will be a major performance gap in good healers and bad healers like there already is. If buff timers are generous (10+ globals) then healers are still sitting around picking their wedgies when no one needs healing.

5.) How many buffs can a game have before they become a bit redundant? They'll either increase offense, defense, or an arbitrary niche that I'll call "utility" (resource regeneration buffs or recovery buffs like Reraise that could prevent a full wipe). You get a bit more mileage out of giving healers debuffs too, but eventually with as many classes that XIV hopes to have you will have overlap. And when healer utility overlaps we start to look at their other features instead to judge and exclude (see: WHM vs AST right now).

6.) Adding buffs is fun and appeals to those who prefer a more pacifist, backline role, but it's still not what makes a healer, IMO. If healing is still faceroll and boring I'm not sure adding mandatory fluff maintenance buffs is going to make people less discontent. This last one is more just personal opinion though, so take it with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Yes and no, lets take low level for example since people do not take a lot of damage there. People can be sitting there casting a heal every time someone takes 10 points of damage. OFC that is from being new but that is not a good healer because no one is dying. YOU ARE A BAD healer if you are sitting around doing nothing frequently, regardless of content. Do you see tanks flashing once and going afk? Do you see DPS hitting one action then afk? healers are not special that gets a free pass.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I in no way condone a healer simply doing nothing in downtime (not even in PvP. Between skirmishes, heal and shield your team. Ready up for the next fight), but I also don't believe removal or alteration of one wonky skill will encourage that either.

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/10characters