An open discsusion on the consequences of death

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Originally Posted by Nephera

I'm up for anima penalties, but experience penalties have already gone through a trial by fire and failed and are a dealbreaker for a lot of people.


edit: even if you dont lose levels, which i would be ok with .

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See, this is useful. So you are ok with losing Anima. And if I'm reading it correctly, you'd be ok with losing SP as long as you don't level down, right?

One of the proposed solutions is to lose anima upon death. Another one is to lose SP, but that SP can be bought back by spending Anima. I prefer the second option, since it gives you the choice on what you would like to sacrifice.

I didn't know a death penalty thread was made, but here is my idea, dont feel like typing it all out again http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...plus....-kinda..

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

See, this is useful. So you are ok with losing Anima. And if I'm reading it correctly, you'd be ok with losing SP as long as you don't level down, right?

One of the proposed solutions is to lose anima upon death. Another one is to lose SP, but that SP can be bought back by spending Anima. I prefer the second option, since it gives you the choice on what you would like to sacrifice.

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Yes, but keep in mind that several mmos that have the equivalent of sp penalties have lowered them over the years to make the games more casual friendly, I sincerely doubt that if we DO put one in that it will stick.

anima and/or armor on the other hand tend to be better recieved, what I do think they need to do is make armor/weapons significantly less effective when they drop into yellow/red alongside the penalty to armor.

edit: also when they put in chocobos and airships anima on death might not be an issue either.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

Yes, but keep in mind that several mmos that have the equivalent of sp penalties have lowered them over the years to make the games more casual friendly, I sincerely doubt that if we DO put one in that it will stick.

anima and/or armor on the other hand tend to be better recieved, what I do think they need to do is make armor/weapons significantly less effective when they drop into yellow/red alongside the penalty to armor.

edit: also when they put in chocobos and airships anima on death might not be an issue either.

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Yeah, when I made the suggestion for death penalty, I had Aion specifically in mind. IMO, they did the death penalty system really well to accommodate both Hardcores and Casuals.

As far as your suggestion with equipment... it could work. But I think that's actually harsher than an SP/Anima penalty. If you significantly reduced half-broken and broken equipment even more than it is, then you run the risk of not being able to complete content. It would be even more severe than SP/Anima loss, IMO.

I don't fully understand Yoshida's comment. It sounds like if you die, you have two options: either get a raise to continue, or choose "return" and need to get repairs before you can continue. The latter sounds like it means also abandoning a guildleve, at least due to lack of time.

As for "zombie attacks" (--Yoshida) and people attempting "challenges that they obviously can't handle" (--a forum poster), much of that is the game's fault. First off, for example, rank 30 outposts open up at rank 23, even for solo players. Secondly, guildleve mobs are wildly different in strength. One guildleve gives me single green and blue mobs; another, pairs of red mobs; and there's no way to tell in advance. Thirdly, the guildleve continues even after death & return. Players find themselves in a situation where they not only need to, but also get rewarded by, respawning quickly and often.

I *really* don't enjoy doing "zombie attacks" but with the game so out of balance sometimes it can't be helped, even though I despise doing it. (I despise choosing to give up on a guildleve with 20 minutes remaining even more.) I think this "death penalty" is one step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Yeah, when I made the suggestion for death penalty, I had Aion specifically in mind. IMO, they did the death penalty system really well to accommodate both Hardcores and Casuals.

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oh god i played aion i should remember what the penalty was but i cant D:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

As far as your suggestion with equipment... it could work. But I think that's actually harsher than an SP/Anima penalty. If you significantly reduced half-broken and broken equipment even more than it is, then you run the risk of not being able to complete content. It would be even more severe than SP/Anima loss, IMO.

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Not necessarily, the harshness is largely dependant on how they tweak the numbers.

I mean ideally you want to allow someone to have at least 3-4 chances to complete content with a return death (More with tier 1,2,3 rezzes)

with armor damage being the primary deterrent you can

1) Adjust the amount of equipment damage specific encounters do on killing a player
2) Adjust certain sets to take less damage than others(eq2 did this with fabled gear)
3) Adjust how much sets cost to repair (Ideally the low level ones should cost very little to allow to let new players get the hang of the game)
4) Adjust 1-10 sets to take lower armor damage on death to let new players get the hang of the game

now i will admit there is one giant huge gaping hole with this that yoshida has acknowledged and addressed

"Nobody is here to repair my armor wat do?" I am assuming he is going to put more repair npcs around, lower the repair to 60% but significantly lower the price, the end result: you get fewer chances with half repaired armor but you dont have to stop. Also some money gets taken out of the economy.

I am truly dumbfounded at seeing this thread still going. I'm sure it's been said and I'll say it again, harsher penalties does not equate to a more challenging and rewarding game, if anything it's quite the opposite. It breeds cookie cutter setups so as to avoid dying. It negates the possibility of people thinking outside the box and to try new ways of doing things.

We've seen it happen in FFXI, people who wouldn't even try a new way for fear of losing experience points. Why would anyone want this to happen again?

I said it in my earlier post and I'll say it again, right now weakness serves it's purpose, that is to prevent people from immediately attacking right after death. Anyone wanting anything beyond weakness is just a glutton for punishment and should pursue other venues to fulfill their needs for punishment. May I suggest BDSM?

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Originally Posted by CupDeNoodles

We've seen it happen in FFXI, people who wouldn't even try a new way for fear of losing experience points. Why would anyone want this to happen again?

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Look, I'm sorry you couldn't get into a good LS with you 75PUP/37DNC but some people want a feeling of actual accomplishment when they play the game. In my experience, anyone who even used the term "cookie cutter" was just looking for an excuse why their gear wasn't as good as other people. Something needs to be done to the death system to create any kind of feeling of urgency when playing at all. And it's pretty much confirmed it's going to happen so I don't understand why you're arguing about it.

Being able to solo to max level and kill these "NMs" (I wouldn't even compare them to ones in XI) is seriously a joke. I'm all for a "faster paced game" than XI but honestly XIV as it stands now is just way too easy in general. This is just one little part to making the game better.

I'm for gear damage as a death penalty, but think you should have gear damage even if you get revived, unlike what was stated by the Dev. Right now there are too many repair mats available in the game, it is a good way to put them to more use, especially since gear degradation is a lot slower thanks to a previous update.

SP/EXP loss is going too far, and especially de-leveling if anyone is foolish enough to want that back.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Look, I'm sorry you couldn't get into a good LS with you 75PUP/37DNC but some people want a feeling of actual accomplishment when they play the game. In my experience, anyone who even used the term "cookie cutter" was just looking for an excuse why their gear wasn't as good as other people. Something needs to be done to the death system to create any kind of feeling of urgency when playing at all. And it's pretty much confirmed it's going to happen so I don't understand why you're arguing about it.

Being able to solo to max level and kill these "NMs" (I wouldn't even compare them to ones in XI) is seriously a joke. I'm all for a "faster paced game" than XI but honestly XIV as it stands now is just way too easy in general. This is just one little part to making the game better.

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How can you feel accomplished for losing more time when you lost X amount of SP/EXP trying to kill this or that (h)NM?

Adding a Time Sink doesn't add anything to the "feeling of urgency". It just make you waste more time to get back a lost SP/EXP buffer.

I do agree the current NM (are they really?) aren't this challenging at all; however, instead of asking to add stupid time sinks, why not start asking for more challenging mobs? With a rage timer these fights would add the feeling of urgency you miss.