We lost 70% of our player base half a year in

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

If you’re mid-casual and you’re not necessarily interested in Extreme, Savage or Ultimate modes… tough luck. There’s pretty much nothing to be done besides the one new dungeon and maybe few raid bosses if you’re in the right patch cycle.

It’s like I left WoW/hardcore games to find the same endgame.

There is 0 exploration.

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This is why I think things like Eureka and Bozja are so important. They really tick that box. Like I'm probably a mid-casual as you say (though I do Extremes and occasionally dip a toe into Savage), but I find things like Eureka and Bozja good diversions. The problem is, there needs to be a new one with each expansion, and for whatever reason, after cutting Bozja (due to Covid, they had to cut out one of the zones, originally they planned three with the second one going with DR instead of just the two we have today; this was totally understandable, pandemic and all, so I'm not harping on THAT), they just didn't make one this expansion.

I feel like they underestimated how important content like that is, and Island Sanctuary doesn't scratch that itch as it's more akin to housing type of stuff.

While Variant is trying to do that, there's far less replay to it. Deep Dungeons and Eureka/Bozja allow you to grind stuff for achievements, titles, pets, mounts, and Eureka/Bozja you have a lot of replay value for leveling up weapons/armor for different Jobs. Variant is just doing all the paths once for the mount, maybe running it a few times if you want the single set of cosmetic gear...and that's it. There's just not enough replay value to it, and very little exploration. The hints for the different paths were so cryptic, most people just looked up a guide, and it wasn't as pick-up-group friendly as Eureka/Bozja, so most people doing it were still just wanting to do their run, not spend hours grinding and poking about.

It was a good try, but just didn't hit the mark of Eureka/Bozja. We need another Eureka/Bozja.

Honestly I personally think ending the main story arc in 6.0 was a mistake. The patch story has been boring as all hell for me and I stopped doing it at 6.2. Job design has gone to hell and most of them aren't fun at all anymore. I'm hoping 7.0 saves the game for me but honestly can't see it. This game is being designed to be a bi-yearly release single player game now.

Went too much into the RPG, forgot about the MMO.

The relic quest had a very important function, in ARR-HW it made players to interact with several other system it had in place: You had to quest, dungeon, raid, trials, craft, FATEs. Yes grindy, but the promise, the reward was there. The grind in XIV is another topic.
In SB and ShB it got it's own areas, full of lore, theming, and whats more important a feeling of progression. Grindy, but the promise.

EW doesn't offer anything.

In this and many other areas it's shown how EW is LESS than it's predecesors.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

Went too much into the RPG, forgot about the MMO.

The relic quest had a very important function, in ARR-HW it made players to interact with several other system it had in place: You had to quest, dungeon, raid, trials, craft, FATEs. Yes grindy, but the promise, the reward was there. The grind in XIV is another topic.
In SB and ShB it got it's own areas, full of lore, theming, and whats more important a feeling of progression. Grindy, but the promise.

EW doesn't offer anything.

In this and many other areas it's shown how EW is LESS than it's predecesors.

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One could say a game forcing you to interact with certain systems isn't good. I hear no one say the ARR relic grind was good or fun. The only really difference is current relics let you do whatever you want to get your relic. I'll take that over the God awful books/light farming of ARR. I'll take that over the eventual boring tedium of Eureka style Zones. I personally can't call EW a lesser in that regard.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

One could say a game forcing you to interact with certain systems isn't good. I hear no one say the ARR relic grind was good or fun. The only really difference is current relics let you do whatever you want to get your relic. I'll take that over the God awful books/light farming of ARR. I'll take that over the eventual boring tedium of Eureka style Zones. I personally can't call EW a lesser in that regard.

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Without a doubt, I grew to hate the previous relic grinds. It just made you feel like such an asshole because of the completely obvious unfun padding design for a lot of them.

But here's the kicker, I do like the ideas behind collecting the materials or objectives for the steps. I just hated the grinding process and I wish there was a way where they can apply those differing objectives into EW's relics so that it doesnt feel awful to do, but also has something substantial for it. I get the tomestone grinds (boy is EW gonna be the easiest relic grinds after 7.0 once the tome turn ins become poetics) but I also wish they made different objectives.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Without a doubt, I grew to hate the previous relic grinds. It just made you feel like such an asshole because of the completely obvious unfun padding design for a lot of them.

But here's the kicker, I do like the ideas behind collecting the materials or objectives for the steps. I just hated the grinding process and I wish there was a way where they can apply those differing objectives into EW's relics so that it doesnt feel awful to do, but also has something substantial for it. I get the tomestone grinds (boy is EW gonna be the easiest relic grinds after 7.0 once the tome turn ins become poetics) but I also wish they made different objectives.

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Yeah see I would 100% get behind a nice balance of both. And naturally folks with different wants n playstyles prefer different methods. Ik I've seen the point where folks say easy relics make them feel less rewarding but imo simply seeing everyone have them, hard/long grinds or not already makes them feel that way.

I wish there was more people to play with! It's very lonely when all of my friends quit and theres nobody to play with anymore! My FC master and I are the only two people who are active anymore!

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I'll take that over the eventual boring tedium of Eureka style Zones.

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That's the grind. And the grind in this game is another topic entirely.
If you could reasonably do 3 relics at the same time instead of being constantly locked into one, and that being least 3 times as faster. The tedium i bet would give away to more interest.

Why? Because of the Armoire System. The ignored basis of XIV.

In this MMORPG your character can be any between a bunch of classes. The armoire system allows for it. And the nature of combat and progresion of high end characters one might say -requieres- you to know at least something about the 3 roles which you so easily can play.
A faster gearing is what this game needs. At least 3 times as to consider a player might want to gear at a minimun one class in each role. That would be 3 times cheaper tomes, or 3 times higher caps. Instead of 12 memories of the lamentation of the children suffering warcrimes, you just need 4.

The lives of lot of communities would be expanded, most statics disband cause of rolechanges and people simply not having the time to gear YET another class.


Ofc you would leave the NEETs feeling like everything is "meaningless". Well, with a game in it's 4th expansion... How the Manderville Relic is up to now... Yeah, we kinda there already.
The relic will always be replaced by 10 item levels next expansion anyway.

I say the grind needs to go in a game that revolves arround all-classing.

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Originally Posted by LukaRoselia

Honestly I personally think ending the main story arc in 6.0 was a mistake. The patch story has been boring as all hell for me and I stopped doing it at 6.2. Job design has gone to hell and most of them aren't fun at all anymore. I'm hoping 7.0 saves the game for me but honestly can't see it. This game is being designed to be a bi-yearly release single player game now.

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They planned to have an expansion in between SB and Shb but they cut it due to pacing. It was supposed to be about Garlemald and what not and what we ended up getting was our trip to the First instead of dealing with the Garleans. Regardless this is semi-assumption since they did mention the intention before but I fully disagree with this opinion that they shouldnt have ended the main story with EW. The Zodiark and Hydaelyn drama was beginning to drag at this point and I feel EW ended it pretty nicely.

The only reason you find the Void story boring is because where at the point where the game needs an interlude before the next major arc. A good story doesnt deliver, rising action after rising action after rising action and its hilarious how you and most other people who criticize 6.1- above fail to understand this and makes me think you also failed at basic literature 101 because I also see this excuse thrown with some of ARR's story telling, which had some pacing issues for sure but the build up to the events of Praetorium, then the build up to HW was needed for us to give a shit of the characters, world and situation at that point.. The truth is, you and a bunch of other people reeally should never ever write a story if the main criticism is that the plot isnt hinged on melodrama and climaxes. This isnt how good storytelling works.

I also wouldnt fully count on 7.0 to be back to the levels of hype as in Shb or EW. I rather want 7.0 to be a bit more a fresh start like ARR in terms of world building. But I doubt this might be the case, at least fully.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

They planned to have an expansion in between SB and Shb but they cut it due to pacing. It was supposed to be about Garlemald and what not and what we ended up getting was our trip to the First instead of dealing with the Garleans. Regardless this is semi-assumption since they did mention the intention before but I fully disagree with this opinion that they shouldnt have ended the main story with EW. The Zodiark and Hydaelyn drama was beginning to drag at this point and I feel EW ended it pretty nicely.

The only reason you find the Void story boring is because where at the point where the game needs an interlude before the next major arc. A good story doesnt deliver, rising action after rising action after rising action and its hilarious how you and most other people who criticize 6.1- above fail to understand this and makes me think you also failed at basic literature 101 because I also see this excuse thrown with some of ARR's story telling, which had some pacing issues for sure but the build up to the events of Praetorium, then the build up to HW was needed for us to give a shit of the characters, world and situation at that point.. The truth is, you and a bunch of other people reeally should never ever write a story if the main criticism is that the plot isnt hinged on melodrama and climaxes. This isnt how good storytelling works.

I also wouldnt fully count on 7.0 to be back to the levels of hype as in Shb or EW. I rather want 7.0 to be a bit more a fresh start like ARR in terms of world building. But I doubt this might be the case, at least fully.

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You pretty much sum up my thoughts, the story so far is fine its setting up groundwork for something bigger to happen. I imagine 7.0s story to be a far more smaller scale contained piece maybe something akin to Stormblood and I can see it being controversial but as you say starting a new arc will always be slow to begin with and I still have a lot of appreciation to ARR and I mean even the ARR that is there now isn't the one I played completely as they cut a small chunk out and have redesigned dungeons etc.