Best Gear in Coil needs to end

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

1.) What we are looking for is a progressional route that's progressive such as this line / and not the current form that is - where only the 5% get to experience it.
2.) Not really. If you see how progression is being currently handled, CT is a step backwards from Coil. Yet that's a backwards step \ so you can move forward /. Instead CT should be released before Coil or allow other forms to progress / that aren't as stressful as coil that lead up to doing coil in a less stressful manor when it comes to dealing with phase transitions and mechanics overall. Yet doesn't take 2 months to release it should be part of that Coil patch.

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1.) So that I don't put words in your mouth, you would be ok with a non hard mode version that drops hypothetically 110, and then the hard mode drops 115 and the weapon 120? The only real comparison I have is to WoW, and I don't recall there being a lot of complaining that heroic dropped better gear than the regular. What I'm suggesting is a similar route.

2.) I agree that it should have went CT then Coil, and IIRC, they were going to have CT and Coil at launch, and pulled CT because they felt it was too hard. That seems to me that from there, it was going to be a snowball of Coil before CT. With that said, I don't think they can really "reset" this cycle until an expansion, unless they push back a Coil release even further.

Now taking a step further, here is the logic I see would happen. They would probably have to tune Coil to be done with CT gear in mind, which makes Coil even harder than it is now, since if they didn't make it harder, those FC / LS's already clearing SCoB would be clearing even faster. In that sense, have they accomplished anything different than what we have now?

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

What I like about the SE's decision is it rewards players who are more dedicated and skilled with better gear. Back during 2.1 when everyone had access to i90 you had people with full i90 who didn't know jack about how to play their classes everywhere in the PF. But at least now if I start up a PF and set the ilvl at 105 I know that only players that are good enough to clear second coil turns can join and if they're good enough for SCoB they're good enough for any other content that's currently in the game. I know people are gonna bring up the gear=/= skill argument and all, but at least now that 110 isnt handed out everywhere it's a better indicator than it was previously.

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And this is one of the potential problems. If too many of the coil crowd start setting the bar of entry above 101, then this starts to impact the ability of anyone who doesn't choose to do coil to participate. I don't know if that sort of thing is healthy for the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

here is the logic I see would happen.

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It's not gear that makes coil easier or harder it's a mixture the amount of types of mechanics used per rotation with the amount of reaction time give that one has to memorize as well as 0 tolerance mechanics that cause wipes if not executed perfectly. For skilled players gear only makes some transitional phases and mechanics less stressful to deal with due to higher hp, damage, and heals. For unskilled players more gear just means you wont be constantly punished because you couldn't do 1 mechanic or a couple. It doesn't make these fights easier for them at all. Yet the entire party doesn't suffer heavily because of 1 person and takes away any hope and motivates from even trying.

Since by your logic titan shouldn't be an issue at all now yet it still is for many.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

It's not gear that makes coil easier or harder it's a mixture the amount of types of mechanics used per rotation with the amount of reaction time give that one has to memorize as well as 0 tolerance mechanics that cause wipes if not executed perfectly. For skilled players gear only makes some transitional phases and mechanics less stressful to deal with due to higher hp, damage, and heals. For unskilled players more gear just means you wont be constantly punished because you couldn't do 1 mechanic or a couple. It doesn't make these fights easier for them at all. Yet the entire party doesn't suffer heavily because of 1 person and takes away any hope and motivates from even trying.

Since by your logic titan shouldn't be an issue at all now yet it still is for many.

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I think that gets to the crux of this argument. Why does it matter if the best gear is Coil or not (based on the original post of this thread)? If the best gear isn't in Coil, then very few, if any, would be running Coil if the best gear isn't there. It sounds like the real issue isn't the gear, since hypothetically, you could have i200 and still wouldn't clear the content if you can't do the mechanics. The real issue seems to be the mechanics and how demanding you feel they are. In that sense, it's a totally different argument and whether the best gear is in Coil seems moot since it's not going to help you clear the content.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

And this is one of the potential problems. If too many of the coil crowd start setting the bar of entry above 101, then this starts to impact the ability of anyone who doesn't choose to do coil to participate. I don't know if that sort of thing is healthy for the rest of the game.

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Except nothing is stopping the players who don't meet that "bar of entry" (don't really agree with this phrase as it implies that you must group with those players setting this threshold) from banding together and progressing upwards. i90 is more then enough for any bunch of players to get together, learn and progress above that i101 you spoke of.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

I think that gets to the crux of this argument. Why does it matter if the best gear is Coil or not (based on the original post of this thread)? If the best gear isn't in Coil, then very few, if any, would be running Coil if the best gear isn't there. It sounds like the real issue isn't the gear, since hypothetically, you could have i200 and still wouldn't clear the content if you can't do the mechanics. The real issue seems to be the mechanics and how demanding you feel they are. In that sense, it's a totally different argument and whether the best gear is in Coil seems moot since it's not going to help you clear the content.

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Wise words.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

It's not gear that makes coil easier or harder it's a mixture the amount of types of mechanics used per rotation with the amount of reaction time give that one has to memorize as well as 0 tolerance mechanics that cause wipes if not executed perfectly. For skilled players gear only makes some transitional phases and mechanics less stressful to deal with due to higher hp, damage, and heals. For unskilled players more gear just means you wont be constantly punished because you couldn't do 1 mechanic or a couple. It doesn't make these fights easier for them at all. Yet the entire party doesn't suffer heavily because of 1 person and takes away any hope and motivates from even trying.

Since by your logic titan shouldn't be an issue at all now yet it still is for many.

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keep harping that zero tolerance argument eh? Please, this game is probably too difficult for you.

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Originally Posted by Dano

keep harping that zero tolerance argument eh? Please, this game is probably too difficult for you.

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Yeah it's getting old and sickening. He likes it the older FF titles like FF7, where the end game bosses such as Ruby and Emerald can be cheesed by getting all the ultimate weapons for all your characters (which doesn't drop from the game's toughest fight), equipping them with the game's most powerful summon - Knights of the Round (obtained by breeding chocobos, not even a boss fight!) and combo them with things like Mime=Counter combination to keep up the KotR summon chain and beat the superboss.

Yeap, no need to memorize anything. KotR=HP Absorb + Counter=Mime equals to no need to memorize anything, everything on auto-pilot :)

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

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item level 94 is sufficient to get you up to turn 8 and possibly clear turn 8 itself, considering that patch has been out a while most people that "Don't have gear for coils" are already around level 98 and 100. If people aren't interested in doing coil then I don't see why they want i110, because the other content doesn't require it. If you want to be higher level because you think it will make it easier I'm sorry to inform you but most turns with the exception of turn 8 is not dps race, no amount of gear, even if they make full i110 attainable with tomes, it isn't going to make coils any easier if people has no clue of the mechanics.
Demanding top tier gear like people is on this thread is like a person who worked hard trough college, graduated, and with dificulty managed to get a respectable job with a good salary, then have a lazy person that din't work or made any effort at all and just demands to have a job with a equivalent salary.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

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You gear to make coils easier, instead of spending long times doing the fight it's shorter, that's obvious, but like someone points out, it doesn't matter if you are unable to understand the mechanics, and his point in Titan is valid, before 2.2 and people was full decked in i90, that din't change anything with people dying and failing at mechanics. Even with Echo buff, it doesn't fix anything. The game sadly lacks tank and spank mechanics on most fights.

Honestly this is the first MMO I have seen with people demanding to have the top gear not doing the top dungeon.