What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

More like a moral framework/belief system that anyone with an onze of empathy wouldn’t agree with. It seriously makes me question where the devs mental state is if they’re justifying genocide because hot mommy told them to…

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Well, you have a choice. You can keep speculating about the mental state of some writers you have never met, or you can try to think of a reading of the text that isn't genocide apologia. "Splitting a soul into 14 independant people" isn't really an act that has a real life analogue.

But really, even if you grant that the sundering was genocide, what are we supposed to do? Punish her? Put her on trial for her crimes? The only time we get to directly interact with her is right before we kill her anyway. And she states that she feels guilt and doubt about her actions anyway.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Well, you have a choice. You can keep speculating about the mental state of some writers you have never met, or you can try to think of a reading of the text that isn't genocide apologia. "Splitting a soul into 14 independant people" isn't really an act that has a real life analogue.

But really, even if you grant that the sundering was genocide, what are we supposed to do? Punish her? Put her on trial for her crimes? The only time we get to directly interact with her is right before we kill her anyway. And she states that she feels guilt and doubt about her actions anyway.

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Well for starters we could not have a minion that reveres her as a hero, while completely ignoring the actual hero of the story who kept the planet shielded for thousands of years.

Dialog options would've been a nice place to start. Having recently replayed 3.4 I'm jealous Ardbert got to strike out at Hydaelyn (literally) far more than my character was ever given the chance to do.

Also, there's no 'real life analogue' to rejoinings either, but that hasn't stopped anyone from discussing them as genocides. Whether people like it or not, the sundering was a genocide by any available definition. The issue isn't what it was, it's why it's viewed as an acceptable action depending on the victims and the perpetrator.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Well, you have a choice. You can keep speculating about the mental state of some writers you have never met, or you can try to think of a reading of the text that isn't genocide apologia. "Splitting a soul into 14 independant people" isn't really an act that has a real life analogue.

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Sorry, but we know that it at the very least made the human mind regress enough that they forgot language, dramatically cut their lifespan and wiped out their entire culture from history. I can think of real life analogues: brainwashing, brain damage, poisoning, cultural genocide. It sounds like you are wilfully thinking of it in abstract ways to not have to think too hard about it.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

But really, even if you grant that the sundering was genocide, what are we supposed to do? Punish her? Put her on trial for her crimes? The only time we get to directly interact with her is right before we kill her anyway. And she states that she feels guilt and doubt about her actions anyway.

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Rewrite the whole damned thing so that both the Scions and the Ascians call her out on her biases and horrifying acts like she deserved. You're talking about "the only time we get to directly interact with her" because you aren't reimagining the terrible dreck that was Endwalker quite enough – we should have had more scenes with her, which would have ideally ended with me tearing her a whole new orifice. The trial? Not enough, we were firmly on her side and it was just a friendly little spar (useless, by the way, because who is she to judge our ability to go up against a being of Dynamis?). Also, it's not enough to admit guilt and doubt. Ah, if only people who committed genocide in real life just told us they were really sorry about what they did, then we'd all be okay with them!

Worst of all: her soul is gone. She took the easy way out like a coward. smh. Give me a scene of Elidibus, Will of the Planet Made Manifest, kicking her down in the Lifestream before she dissipates at least, you know?

Who ever mentioned that Venat says that the ancients need their wings clips but then gives herself not just one pair of wings, but several is just, wow. That’s incredibly funny. Endwalker really is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Thank you Venat for telling people how they should live but never once participate in your own morals. At least Emet tried to live amongst the sundered.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

Who ever mentioned that Venat says that the ancients need their wings clips but then gives herself not just one pair of wings, but several is just, wow. That’s incredibly funny. Endwalker really is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Thank you Venat for telling people how they should live but never once participate in your own morals. At least Emet tried to live amongst the sundered.

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Her wings are a metaphor for the whole damned aesop of "sundered good, ancients bad" falling flat on its face as soon as you consider that the defeat of Meteion rested on a handful of people and a hero she groomed for that purpose and who received the help of multiple Ancients and Ancient creations to get there quick enough before the planet was overwhelmed with the Final Days – while she robbed the Ancients of a chance to fight back.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Her wings are a metaphor for the whole damned aesop of "sundered good, ancients bad" falling flat on its face as soon as you consider that the defeat of Meteion rested on a handful of people and a hero she groomed for that purpose and who received the help of multiple Ancients and Ancient creations to get there quick enough before the planet was overwhelmed with the Final Days – while she robbed the Ancients of a chance to fight back.

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Yeah it was never about the people of star overcoming Hermès’ test but the WoL being groomed enough to win. It was never fair in the beginning and it never will be fair.

After thinking a bit I’m just surprised so many people are fine with being told this is the way to live by a higher power. Might just be my own personal anecdote but most players I know online aren’t religious and prefer not to be controlled in such a way. I guess if god was a cute anime girl it’s all fine.

Or - one could drop the entire premise that you have to accept the sundering as "good" or "bad" and move away from pure moral dualism when trying to discuss fiction.

The facts of the setting are that an act was committed that did a wrong (the sundering) in order to prevent an even greater tragedy (the end of all life in the universe). I wouldn't call that good or evil, I don't even feel qualified to make a call on that at all. You'd have to have the mentality of an ancient to even think of taking on that burden.

For a thread full of people who claim to like gray morality, it seems like you kinda don't.

Gray morality is when writers say bad thing is good actually

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Or - one could drop the entire premise that you have to accept the sundering as "good" or "bad" and move away from pure moral dualism when trying to discuss fiction.

The facts of the setting are that an act was committed that did a wrong (the sundering) in order to prevent an even greater tragedy (the end of all life in the universe). I wouldn't call that good or evil, I don't even feel qualified to make a call on that at all. You'd have to have the mentality of an ancient to even think of taking on that burden.

For a thread full of people who claim to like gray morality, it seems like you kinda don't.

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There is no actual evidence given that the Sundering was needed in any way