NO MORE ALEXANDER(NM)!

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

So let me repeat what I posted earlier. Do you really think hardcore raiders would want Savage Alexander to only be useful for light farming, TT cards, minions, glamour, etc? No? then don't suggest that would be ok for casual players.

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Because it's what the "casual" playerbase initially asked for?

I remember a few dozen threads from players asking for Coil to be nerfed into the ground or to just offer a story mode because they didn't care about / want the gear but rather just wanted to see the story, however they felt the content was too difficult.

At the time the "hardcore" and "midcore" players just wanted to retain the baseline difficulty of coil because they felt it had a decent balance and enjoyed the fights as they were, however most players either didn't care or were open to a story mode being added to appease those who wanted to see the content as well. Instead we got echo nerfs which took the experience away from a large number of the midcore players who had yet to enter at the time, with the "casual" crowd telling them to "just do Savage" as if it were remotely the same thing.

Now with Alexander release they've gone a step further and released content with a gap that pretty much ignores the "midcore" playerbase entirely and discourages a large number of the "hardcore" from even bothering because they quickly get burned out.

Personally i don't care if story mode does or doesn't reward gear, but lets not play the "Would the hardcores want this!?" game when many of the players who are complaining in regards to Savage and normal were perfectly fine with the initial coil releases and we're only at this point because it was the other side raising complaints, the same side that is once again trying to say "well just do Savage then!!!"

I think ultimately the problem is that they tried to join the ideas of a story mode with the midcore ceiling of the game, and instead of having both a regularly difficult mode and a Savage, we only got the latter.

Say what people will about WoW, at least they embrace this splintering.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

I doubt they will add echo in savage, atleast i dont really see the need for it due NM mode just like you said.

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The problem there is the unique gear drops. The original Savages didn't have this worry, but this one does, and they probably don't want people having to worry so much about the mechanics and such if they're going to backfarm for the glamor and experience, and/or to balance out it being added to DF (which again, it probably will be due to gear drops). I'm thinking it's pretty likely it will see echo.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

How in the hells could you ever possibly believe that making the rewards for NM Alexander irrelevant crap "would've satisfied both camps". Do you think hardcore raiders are happy when people suggest that Savage shouldn't drop anything?

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Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

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It's been a long time since we first asked for it. A version of the coil which would only serves the purpose of giving the story to players.

=> no loot at all
=> eased version compared to normal (less damage, few to none OH-KO moves)
=> does not grant access to the next normal coil

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-mode-isn-t-it

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

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What's up with those posters who are recommending watching it on YouTube? How about I unsubscribe and watch the game on YouTube? I can do that for every Final Fantasy to come too, since they're mostly story oriented. /smh

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

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I think this is a very small group, and as Colorful points out, YouTube does accomplish the same. I wouldn't feel anywhere near the same immersion if something as impressive as Bahamut was so watered down.

And that's also the issue with Alex NM. Gear is pretty much 'not loot', since you're going to be replace it and there's little/no consideration for BiS involving lower-tiered gear, mechanics are stripped, and we don't know about access methodology. And people are mostly not happy with this.

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Originally Posted by Arashmin

I think this is a very small group, and as Colorful points out, YouTube does accomplish the same. I wouldn't feel anywhere near the same immersion if something as impressive as Bahamut was so watered down.

And that's also the issue with Alex NM. Gear is pretty much 'not loot', since you're going to be replace it and there's little/no consideration for BiS involving lower-tiered gear, mechanics are stripped, and we don't know about access methodology. And people are mostly not happy with this.

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I agree. To me, if you really want something you should be prepared to put in work for it. However, SE felt inclined to appeal to that crowd, and now here we are. Maybe if they'd separated the two from the on-set, without needing the gear in order to be Savage-ready, then perhaps things would've been different.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I can't really speak for everyone, and I don't pretend to, so yeah, I say this based on my own experiences and those I play with. And, to be honest, I get those drops pretty quick now, 1 or 2 tries usually because I'll take pretty much anything at this point, and it's still tiring. I've pretty much stopped doing it entirely. I'm gonna say that as soon as savage came out, normal lost what little luster it had and became a chore.

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Didn't have to keep doing it after Savage came out.

Could have spent esoteric tomes on chest/legs and not finished those pieces at all.

Plenty of ways you "could" have done it and after job 1, I really isn't necessary at all.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Suggested rewards for NM would've satisfied the camp that were asking for a story version of Coil with easier mechanics, and no loot. Case in point:

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And had they done it, and kept Savage as it is, you'd be bleeding folks left and right.

Plus, I have 0 desire to farm super easy story content for anything that *isn't* gear; I don't even have TT unlocked and I'm not a Pokémon collector.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Didn't have to keep doing it after Savage came out.

Could have spent esoteric tomes on chest/legs and not finished those pieces at all.

Plenty of ways you "could" have done it and after job 1, I really isn't necessary at all.

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You did for gear, iirc. Savage was 2 weeks after normal or was it 4? 4 weeks at the very least for the normal chest piece. Gonna say yeah. But I distintly remember trying to gear my main job during savage.
And that's considering being at the level cap when it released in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

And had they done it, and kept Savage as it is, you'd be bleeding folks left and right.

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Like I mentioned in my original post, had they done it, and tuned Savage to match the difficulty of Coil it would have satisfied both groups.

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Didn't have to keep doing it after Savage came out.

Could have spent esoteric tomes on chest/legs and not finished those pieces at all.

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No serious raider would intentionally deprive themselves (and by extension, their group) of the best gear available going into the most difficult content of the game at present. Don't be ridiculous.