All PvP from every game is always out of balance in some way. Then the devs will fix that out of balance thing and throw something else into unbalance. Then the FoTM will change and the meta will change then they will fix that and everything will change. Just like in FFXI BLU or RDM was simply unbeatable and when they went up against each other it was either the first one who gets silence off or a never ending fight because they agreed not to silence. But I admit I did not see where they said they would be separating and balancing separately so that is pretty cool if they actually follow through with an absolute separation and not half kitten it like Anet does.
Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.
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10-02-2013, 03:47 PMMaku
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10-02-2013, 04:57 PMGunbaDid you mean 'what class can do 80% of everyone elses DPS while completely mobile'?Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
It's not like they designed the class to be the outright best. -
10-02-2013, 06:42 PMt00nc3ssIt's not like they designed the class to be the outright best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunba
You're right, I was wrong. I forgot to factor in -10% DPS for having No positional requirements for any abilities AND -10% DPS for No cast times/instant hit abilities, all from ranged, all mobile.
Actually, we're both wrong. BRD's start off at 120% thanks to Increased Action Damage II. You know that trait that's triggered off of.....wait, it works off of that one ability...No, nope. I'm wrong again. It's just free 20% damage for doing absolutely nothing.
Time and again I've said it, it's downright hilarious the feeble attempts at BRDs trying to downplay how OP they are.
But in all seriousness, I don't believe Square designed it that way but in actual play they are the best, DPS wise. It's the blatant stubborn denial of BRDs, that borders on religious fervor, of this fact that irks me, as I'm sure it does to others. -
10-02-2013, 07:12 PMKitkat
I've come to a simple conclusion based on the last few post by t00nc3ss, and it revolves around "eyeball mechanics" and the simple fact they want to be lazy. To date I haven't played a single MMO where positional awareness played no factor in certain DD class. Assassin/rogue/thief generally get damage/crit boost from back attacks or sneak attacks, others gain enraged or attack boost if mob is facing them, and there is always a range class that has something that makes them seem overpowered but essentially doesn't once you get in the thick of things. I could go into great detail with numbers to show the difference Devs already gave melee to make up for brds increased mobility. However, they also did a wonderful job of hindering that due to mob behavior that if they fixed would go a long way in showing that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I would also love to introduce you to the mnk in my coil group who constantly reminds me I cant hold a candle to their damage output when the job is played to its fullest extent. This includes deaths, downtime from avoiding attacks, and the fact they have to rebuild buffs. I just don't know where you are coming from saying brd out dps drg and mnk when played to full extent. Next thing you know these same people will be saying smn is overpowered cause they have a pet doing damage on top of theirs and still maintain a DD limit break. I'm done with this topic. -
10-02-2013, 09:32 PMmushashithe first mmorpg that was when u had 12 years was everquest1 and that mmorpg melles was kings and rogues and berzerker won every parse and aoes was of entire zone,that game dont had aoes for melles only.Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxpas
vanguard,other game withouth melles aoes where monks and thiefs was the best dps.
everquest2,had aoes only to melles but melles on tank and spank situation destroyed to caster so on one random raidboss with aoes to melles assasssins was the best dps.
wow,havent aoes only for melle,in fact in wow every encounter is done by rangeds while melles only tank and spank everymob and warriors and thiefs are usually the best dps.
swtor,no aoes to melles and the jedi and sith with double sword was the best dps in the game.
rift,no aoes only for melle and warrriors and thiefs are again the best dps. -
10-02-2013, 09:49 PMMrBootI had a death knight and a ret paladin in WoW, played it through WotLK. Both had to dodge plenty of AoE.Quote:
Originally Posted by mushashi
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10-02-2013, 10:22 PMKhaletteRet paladins were never "right" for DPS. They were either OMFG powerful or so nerfed no one would touch them. DK's had magical DoTs that would allow movement while still providing damage. If you played during WotLK, you played that spec, hands down.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBoot
Despite Mushashi's way of laying his opinion out there, he is absolutely right. Most games have frontals or abilities that require all people to move. Not to mention, most ranged classes were either support classes without insane damage or heavy-casting classes that couldn't move and damage. There was no in between. -
10-02-2013, 10:35 PMGunbaI'm sure there are legitimate arguments for and against bards being too powerful, which is unfortunate since it's pretty clear you don't have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
It looks like you're stuck on Titan, a fight everyone is well aware that bards excel at. Why don't you improve your own situation and level your cross classes?
I'm glad you put the worst part of your argument in bold so nobody would miss it - you're essentially arguing that a CLASS TRAIT puts the class above 100% damage. -
10-02-2013, 11:16 PMValshEveryone has traits that increase their damage capacity in some form, the devs didn't balance the classes first and then add traits later. Class balance is the sum of the parts.Quote:
BRD's start off at 120% thanks to Increased Action Damage II. You know that trait that's triggered off of.....wait, it works off of that one ability...No, nope. I'm wrong again. It's just free 20% damage for doing absolutely nothing.
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10-03-2013, 12:07 AMSeikonFixing this will fix most complaints about bard. Don't have to nerf everything at once. For an example, making it so that River of Blood only works if we're standing still.Quote:
Originally Posted by neoreturn
But on the other hand while everyone is wanting to nerf Bard damage, they seriously need to fix our songs and song mechanics.
If SE does one but not the other, Bard will easily become the most underplayed class in the game or the only DPS class in the game xD -
10-03-2013, 12:52 AMWolfhammer
Some people really confuse me.. WHY the $@*! is anyone calling for a BRD nerf? Its gonna gimp your group FFS making things harder! Some of you people would slice your nose off just to spite your face. I could understand calls for nerf x class if there was actually PvP in this game, but THIS....................
OMFG what are these threads going to be like when PvP does arrive????? I think i'll move on if the jealousy gets worse than this...
And yeah... This is jealousy, pure and simple... You would see your group worse off just so you could nerf bard... -
10-03-2013, 01:17 AMJaydedIt's not jealousy silly bard. Bards are broken, plain and simple. When there is literally no reason to bring any other DPS class, and in fact, you hurt your group by doing so, said class is broken. Bard is broken to the max. Highest dps, highest mobility, best support (that stacks with other bards!), easiest to play, ranged...the list just never ends. Bards currently enjoy every luxury in the game that could possibly be afforded a DPS and suffers no drawbacks at all. Bard skills need cast times to keep them immobile and/or lower potency. Their DPS needs to be cut by about 30-40% and remove the penalties from songs, and make songs no longer stack from different bards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfhammer
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10-03-2013, 01:46 AMKroktarSo you failed at monk and BLM so now you are lvling a Archer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayded
By the way if you still believe Bards are the highest dps why dont look goods BLM/SMN threads? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dps-vs-BLM-dps
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10-03-2013, 01:53 AMmushashifixed for uQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolfhammer
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10-03-2013, 02:09 AMMikedizzy
BARD is fine...stop trying to jack us and screw up the JOB for us that enjoy playing it. Is everyone just jealous that they decided to level something else and now regret it...that is what is seems like to me. There is a ton of talk and descrimination out there that groups will only take Paladins and don't like Warriors...should they nerf Paladin also because they are an over powered TANK? I don't think you want that either just like screwing over BARD would suck for everyone you are forgetting that I think. The game works the way it was intended and it is very enjoybale...you will not see a BARD nerf coming.
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10-03-2013, 02:10 AMMikedizzyThat is like saying 2 different Black Mages cannot cast two different spells just doesn't make sense. If two Bards throw up MB and AP then the group is down 40% damage...that is a more than fair trade off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayded
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10-03-2013, 02:14 AMmushashi
sure that it is working fine for u,easiest class to play and best dps on the game with the best support skills.of course that u dont want nerfs.
bards are OP and everybody who isnt bard know it and say it(even some bards),they need get a dps nerf, or movility nerf,or buffs nerf.
and btw i agree that paladin are OP and yes i want a nerf to pld or a buff to warrior(on this case it is better a buff because it is only onejob,with bards we cant ask for bufs to 5 jobs it is easier enrf to the OP job) -
10-03-2013, 02:49 AMTrayesI am just going to post this again because I am not sure any of you read it... Let me know what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trayes
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10-03-2013, 03:01 AMJayded
Bards are zealous about defending their OP status. You bards should *want* to be brought down on par with other classes so every single dps in the game isn't a bard or in the process of rerolling to bard for ezmode faceroll highest dps with no danger or attention to boss mechanics. Loot competition must be fierce even now for bards lawl.
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10-03-2013, 03:15 AMBrodyAlgana
OK .. as a healer I say to Square.. DONT NERF ANYONE. BUFF others, but no nerfing. As a healer, the faster things die the better my job is. For PVE why in gods name would you want to nerf anyone... they are supposed to be your teammates (pvp will be a different story).
As a White Mage I hear a lot about Scholars... however I haven't heard anyone saying NERF WHM. It is always buff scholar aoe spells, make pet UI better... etc... to make them on par with WHM...
In a game that is pretty much 100% PVE (for now), wanting to NERF someone is not very bright... buffing you, yes, nerfing = bad for the whole team. -
10-03-2013, 03:18 AMt00nc3ssUnreliable and well known faulty parser? Check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroktar
Completely immobile target dummy? Check
Casting classes not having to worry about moving and disrupting cast times? Check
So, under nigh improbable conditions that would never ever make it into actual gameplay, a broken parser that cannot calculate nor differentiate DoTs correctly, gives numbers proving BRDs aren't top DPS and it is now all of a sudden undeniable proof that you're not OP?
Geezus, the hilarity of flimsy BRD excuses and "proof" continues. -
10-03-2013, 03:33 AM7thPawn
As a bard from the old days of XI, I can say that when I wanted to play a bard, I wanted to play a bard. In this game, this is not what I wanted to play. As Jayded said "Highest dps, highest mobility, best support". Truth be told though, hit for hit I do less than when I hit something with my Drg, but then again I don't have to move. So the DPS evens out if not goes higher on Bard cause I can shoot on the move. As I had said before in a previous post..., I can tank some dungeon bosses as a Bard. First time was by accident but I have reproduced the feat. It is incredible how such a normal class that is even with every other DPS can accomplish that. I was a Bard, and I am one now. I hit too hard, I am too mobile, and my songs are an afterthought rather than the primary abilities of the class. I can authoritatively say I have every advantage, and I have no downsides. My songs should be what I am about.
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10-03-2013, 03:38 AMmushashilast time that i gonna post as bards seems think that they are fine(best dps in the game,best movility,best support)but this dude couldnt write it betterQuote:
Originally Posted by 7thPawn
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10-03-2013, 03:49 AMKroktarBLM unreliable? Cant you see your own dmg ticks on SMN?Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
Those arent Melee doesnt have to move like crazy unless its titan...Ifrit? No..Garuda? No..Coils 1-3? No.
Besides you should know that Monk DPS its not that bad :') but here are your tears. -
10-03-2013, 03:49 AMt00nc3ssHoly hot damn, a Bard that actually speaks truth. You are the sole glimmer of hope I have for the entire Bard playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thPawn
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10-03-2013, 03:56 AMLunavi
I like that most of the people who thinks bards are not OP are playing bards themselves. It has to say something... Like eighter they themselves do not see the problem as they do not have to change class to be able to join groups outside of DF. Or they deny that truth... OR (the most unlikely, but I still bring it up as we need to take all possibilities into account /sarcasm) they know more about how bards works than those who play other classes do.
I do however agree that melee is underpowered right now. The content availiable and especially late game is tipping very heavily to their disadvantage. A good balanced RPG shall have content where all classes shine. -
10-03-2013, 04:02 AMBlaste
Wow, so much QQing in a single thread about people complaining because they don't do as much damage as a bard, why don't people realize that Nerfs are the last thing that MMO devs want to do? Its not as simple as throwing a switch or hitting a big nerf button, with a game like FFXIV that is already walking a fairly thin tightrope putting a nerf out on a class could have serious consequences. Some of which could result on a mass number of players just leaving, and I could care less about what people think on the subject of "going back to wow" or "we don't need players like that anyway" so friggin laughable, the MMO genre is all about numbers, if they don't maintain those numbers then they don't have a game. In otherwords think long and hard about screaming for nerf's cause you might just be shooting yourself in the foot in the process, wait 6 months then see how the classes/gear balance themselves out.
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10-03-2013, 04:02 AMKroktarbut thats another thread, and there is no point nerfing paladins because even they have bad times on bosses...So a buff on Warriors would be better...Quote:
Originally Posted by mushashi
This is the same with melee...Monks need more utility and DRGs need an overhaul on jumps -
10-03-2013, 04:06 AMKroktarARCHER Lv 38 You won again...ROFLQuote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
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10-03-2013, 04:09 AM7thPawn
Once upon a time a Bard was responsible for the success and failure of exp runs, raids, and runs for precious equipment. I was with the party that were the first North Americans to see the end of the XI storyline through the Dynamis'. I lead the highest exp runs that people had seen in my time. I kept my guild, and many others alive through many years of play. What us few did took skill, and required songs to be weaved into an artform. Any idiot can DPS. It takes an artist to debuff mobs in different ways, sleep others, buff my party in multiple ways, and keep the MP flowing all at once. I was a puppet master conducting the most amazing orchestra an MMO ever saw, sometimes with over 120 people on the battlefield with me. Things got slaughtered because of people like me. That is my Legacy. Us bards here that SE has given us in XIV, are a pale echo of the Legacy that my comrades and I left behind from XI.
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10-03-2013, 04:11 AMBrodyAlgana
Plus, the Bard/Archer Limit Break does SOOOO much DPS... /eyeroll that is why you take other DPS, at least 1 in a 4 man. If we want a healing LB I can do that as WHM....
I say fine, if you are going to nerf another player (again bad idea in a pve game), then they should also get a DPS LB. -
10-03-2013, 04:15 AMRyuDragnierI feel the same way. The only song I ever play is Foe Requiem, and that's because it's the only song I can play by myself that actually helps people kill things without me having to be in a party. I don't like how as a Bard, my songs are practically worthless outside of certain high level instances and dungeons. It doesn't help either that almost all of it seems to be support based in a way where it just helps other party members keep casting spells or spamming skills. I'd like to see some that lower your own damage output while increasing the party's attack, one for their defense, etc. Things that I would gladly use at any given time. Or for the songs to NOT have to be so party based.Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
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10-03-2013, 04:19 AMBlasteSo let me sum up this choir of words, you're mad cause bard is not the same as XI? Using that as a comparison to base your opinion around the Bard in XIV...see there is just one flaw in your logic.... THIS ISN'T FFXI, god these comparisons of XIV to XI are leaving a bad taste in my mouth, its like listening to an elderly person talk about the glory days and then compare how easy it is for you nowadays compared to what they had, or how "better" it was for them. Times are a changing, man up or get out. Plain and simple eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thPawn
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10-03-2013, 04:37 AM7thPawn
Since you like the elderly Blaste here is a diatribe just for you. Final Fantasy has been a series of games that have built upon eachother since the original final fantasy in 1987. This isn't about glory days, this is about the fact that certain classes act and do certain things because the other versions of final fantasy have built upon eachother. It's reality, not reminiscing. It's why a lot of the mobs are called the same thing, the classes are roughly the same names, act in about the same fashion, and others don't make an appearance in one but will in another version. This isn't Everquest versus EQ2. This is a franchise that has been built upon other successive titles. I am not mad at all. I am voicing an opinion in a clear and reasoned fashion using experience and with the other versions of the franchise in mind. So in the next post I will post from Wikipedia for you.
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10-03-2013, 04:39 AM7thPawn
From Wiki...
Bards (吟遊詩人 Gin'yūshijin?) use songs to cause effects, often buffing the party or debuffing the opposition via the "Sing" command. They generally equip harps as weapons. Some Bard incarnations, including Edward Chris von Muir from Final Fantasy IV, have the ability to "Hide" from the enemy. This command is mainly used due to the Bard's low physical abilities. Bards in Final Fantasy XI have MP regeneration songs and stat boosting songs. In Final Fantasy Tactics, Bard is the only male-exclusive class available to generic units. In "Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift", the Bard job is exclusive to the Moogle Hurdy. Strangely, in Final Fantasy: the 4 Heroes of Light, one of the White Mage's special abilities is Hide, which is normally seen with bards.
Since my blather has nothing to do with other versions of the franchise, did you want me to type out what versions of FF bards appeared in? -
10-03-2013, 04:40 AMKaiSunstrider
She is correct that theoretical dps on a target dummy that has zero resistance to your spells is not a good determination of dps in reality. SMNs can execute their debuffs with 100% efficency when there are zero other debuffs on target. When you add in the 15 other debuffs that are applied to a target and the fact that the game doesn't consolidate all of ur debuffs together reduces that efficiency quite a bit.
Also, I cannot argue with you that on stand and spam BLM and SMN can kick my tail, but during actual coil fights, which generally consist of constant movement, I generally hold my own or come out greatly on top depending on my 20% reduction song usage. I would agree that due to the movement mechanics of fights we are incredibly strong if not overpowered because under almost all circumstances we can execute our rotation 100% without falter unlike any other class, even melee, because we rarely get to far away from the mob to continue attacking. -
10-03-2013, 04:41 AMt00nc3ssVery good point, one I completely overlooked.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana
Hmm, a healing class, the WHM, having a healing LB, makes complete sense. A Bard, now the foremost mobile DPS and utility class, ALSO has the same healing LB? Even more OP. Thanks, you guys just keep cementing the awful truth you do not want to admit to.
And hell, the latest posts about parses and now this about Bard getting a DPS LB, were already addressed in a previous post by myself. Coupled with the latest arguments basically asserting that everyone but Bards are wrong and jealous, just makes it crystal clear how much in denial bards are. Same arguments that hold no weight.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-soon./page15
If there are any future arguments not already addressed in Post #146 in the above link (middle of the page) I will be happy to entertain your words and thoughts.
edit: The Parting Words segment was supposed to be a cheeky joke, but the fact that they have been brought up recently as serious debate points has totally made my day brighter. -
10-03-2013, 04:41 AMKaiSunstrider
I'm completely ok if my damage is nerfed a bit, but give me more useful non MP/TP songs other than Foe req which doesn't give that incredible of gains per MP spent.
Hell give me a LB that is a song. tier 1 increase raid damage by 20% for X sec, tier 2 increase dmg by 20% and gives 20% haste for X secs, tier 3 gives 20% dmg increase, haste, and instantly restores mana and tp for all party members. -
10-03-2013, 04:47 AMEleganceI hope you realise the healer LB isn't exactly a plus?Quote:
Originally Posted by t00nc3ss
In almost every case you'd want a dps LB, there is a reason melee claim they are solely brought for their LB.
Because thats essentially what you'll want to be using, unless you need the aoe DPS one.
Of course there will be fringe cases, but you almost never want to be using the heal/archer lb anyway, with its ridiculous cast time.
Now if they gave archers the melee break... yea that might be a problem.
I don't think any bard wants to have the healer lb, lol. -
10-03-2013, 04:47 AMRyuDragnierThis. If we're going to be support, give us a support LB that helps the party by buffing it. Hell, make the songs more useful in general outside of specific dungeons and instances, and just make it so when we go Bard our DPS takes a backseat to the songs (unless you want to sacrifice party support for more DPS).Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider