random Duty Finder groups - Square Enix attitude solution INC

Stay quiet and do nothing out of the ordinary during the entire dungeon, while other players teach strategies or just make a few jokes.

Then, as the last boss is defeated, you send your first message since the start of the run





"Please commend."

People do not speak unless it is negative.... Remember the old Xbox rating system? it would look something like this:

1% of players left a review
97% of them gave negative review
3% positive

you are a bad player.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

I gotta say. I don't like this. I mean, I see why you would want to reward people for being voted on as being nice and all, but this completely excludes players who pre-make parties on their own servers now, from obtaining these specific items as quickly as a random joe schmo who wants to queue up by themselves and wait forever (if they are a dps job). Healers and Tanks will be able to take advantage of this system exclusively, if they act helpful and friendly far quicker than any DPS class that does the same exact thing. This is not a good thing. It is not as good as it sounds in theory.

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Playing a tank or healer is probably the most helpful thing you can do. :P

I think SE's current response might improve behavior but not fix it much.

This is more or less what Demon's Souls did: After you finished an instance or the party stopped because someone died, you would rank each other on the following scale [D C B A S].

Whenever a player chose to form a party with someone, they got to see the other player's rating first. The rating appeared like this:
--D----C----B----A-----S--
3.2% 4.8% 70% 11.4% 10.6%

Players would choose to join people with higher ratings first as you would expect. This system had a loophole where you could do parties with friends and give each other S ratings so if this solution were implemented, parties shouldn't be allowed to be preformed and vote like SE is doing with their current response. If people would get rated on a scale like this they would have to play in a publicly acceptable manner to join groups, which some people are not doing right now.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

I don't really think this will really solve the problem, Camate. If all of these rewards are cosmetic like companion armor and such, players will stop caring as soon as they get what they want or they won't care to begin with. The players that are considerate never needed something like this to encourage them to play nice.

It's a nice gesture, but griefers are probably still going to do what they do.

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Pay attention to THIS GUY> knows what he talkn about. Don't do this MVP system SE. As a nice guy that hardly ever gets credit for my kindness I am insulted because i wont be the one receiving these awards! Does that change the fact that ima nice guy. NopEEEEEEEE!

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Originally Posted by ARytheart

Pay attention to THIS GUY> knows what he talkn about. Don't do this MVP system SE. As a nice guy that hardly ever gets credit for my kindness I am insulted because i wont be the one receiving these awards! Does that change the fact that ima nice guy. NopEEEEEEEE!

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wtf is this? don't do the MVP system because people might be nice for a time instead of being a douche all the time?

I like the idea. My thoughts:

1. If SE is implementing rewards, I like the idea that it seems to be limited to Vanity items only. This ensures that no one feels 'forced' to play nice to receive certain rewards that aren't vanity in nature. Non-Vanity items could result in all sorts of unintended consequences/behaviors. Rewards should be a non-consequential bonus, and nothing more.
   
   To wear these vanity award items might have the benefit of encouraging others.
   
   
2. Votes, as mentioned many already, should be made anonymously and only made available *after* the Duty has completed. This ensures there isn't any 'tit for tat' mechanic going on. What I would recommend even above and beyond that, is to only award MVP points to players once a week (or some such variable; could even be a week plus/minus some random seed value) in a bulk dump.
   
   This ensures abusive players (or whatever term fits best) are not messaging those after the Duty, and giving them grief for not awarding them an MVP point or what have you. Though not impossible (especially if the player has only been in one Duty in said week), this mechanic better ensures you cannot tie MVP votes (or non-votes) back to specific players as easily.
   
   
3. I understand concerns that DD classes may feel left out. As a primary Tank, I can say myself and the Healer are often the most visible in any given party. This is why I don't necessarily like the notion (if true) that you can only award one point for the Most Valuable Player. I feel players should be able to cast votes on all applicable players (ie. ones that have joined up using the Random Duty function; sometimes there may only be 1 of these players in any given group, but there may be more), and not just be limited to the one vote.
   
   This way, DD classes are less likely to be left out as there is more than one vote that can potentially be cast.
   
   
4. I do not subscribe to the notion that this in any way (if indeed the rewards are Vanity only) that this harms players loyal to their Free Company or LS'es. To those in those groups, they are already benefiting from being able to group with others (of their own choosing) and lessen the chance of a poor party experience.
   
   To those in FC's or whatnot that feel slighted by this mechanic, I almost feel that is a slightly inward-looking perspective. The idea of this mechanic again, as I see it, is to help make those random Duty Finder experiences more positive or to help lessen queue times by incentivizing classes that are needed to fill empty DF slots.
   
   
5. Quote:

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   Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

   The overall point is that this is a temporary fix, and the only way bad attitudes will stop is if SE doesn't coddle the bad players and try to give them treats to be good. They need to tell them this attitude will not be tolerated and measures will be taken otherwise.

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   KaiKatzchen, I think I see where you are coming from, however, help me understand more. I understand this won't solve everything (it won't), but I think it's a small step in the right direction, however short-term it may seem.
   
   There's always that careful balance between jumping into any satisficing [sic] solution and saving time, or taking the time (sometimes quite a while) to search for the perfect solution. I think this strikes an OK balance between the two.
   
   There's that carrot and the stick analogy. You're describing SE needs to better police poor attitude players better - no one disagrees (and no one could ever, really). Though poor attitudes can be reported (if via a seemingly slow/inefficient manner according to what's on the forums), I can only see this complementing their toolset of encouraging better player experiences.
   
   It may not address those players that are very intentionally set on griefing a Duty experience (it probably won’t), but it might encourage players to get involved a little more in their party, and I can’t see anything wrong with that.
   
   To those that feel 'bribing' players doesn't fix anything, I can understand that. But so many things in life are exactly this, incentivizing a wanted behaviour vs. an unwanted one. Rational theory in economics has volumes on exactly this sort of idea. No one is suggesting we solve humanity or anything, but this is a small measure that I think will help as long as this MVP mechanic itself serves its purpose. (See suggestions above.)

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

wtf is this? don't do the MVP system because people might be nice for a time instead of being a douche all the time?

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The key phrase with this MVP system is "for a time"

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Originally Posted by Airget

Ya, a better concept would be a "contribution" output that's shown after an event ends which showcases heals and dmg done by the party members. If a party member falls under the treshold to be worthy of the reward they obtain nothing. So say in CM or the final dungeon for story a person stays at the start an accumulates no dmg or healing throughout the encounter. Because of this they would obtain no tome rewards because they did nothing to contribute to the party.

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I think this is a good idea, the only problem with this is the people getting locked out of the boss battles because they watched the cutscenes. If they could fix that then I would be behind this 100%.

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Originally Posted by Camate

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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SW: TOR has/had an MVP vote for battlegrounds... My IA sniper got the majority of votes almost every time. Despite standing out above the rest, I hated this system because a single player doesn't make a team. If we could vote for multiple people so that we can exclude people that we think performed poorly, it would be a much better system.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

The key phrase with this MVP system is "for a time"

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and how does not adding it help? because for a time is better than what it is now. Besides you don't know how much this "for a time" is, it might be eternal with increasingly awesome rewards for each week or something crazy.

What is companion armor?

I'd use this as a way to hand out 'transmog stones'. Each time you get voted up, you get one transmog stone/crystal/potion/moogle... used to transmog one item once.

But also let it be used for repairs.

It needs to be things people will always continue to want - and that's two of them right there. Maybe grand company seals also.

I would also add 1/4th of the MVPs you win to your FC automatically. So that FC's start seeking people who are good at getting MVPs, so the Free Company can use those FC-MVP points on things like 'FC House items'.

companion armor is armor for your chocobo companion

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

wtf is this? don't do the MVP system because people might be nice for a time instead of being a douche all the time?

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Personally, I'm not against them putting the system in at all, but it won't solve the problem of the griefers, because a lot of these people get their kicks out of ruining other peoples' time, so they don't really care about the vanity stuff (or they do, its just that there's nothing stopping them from going "tonight I'm going to grief, and I'll just play like a normal person tomorrow", which is likely what they already do- griefers especially like the DF because of the high chance you'll never run into that same person again), or they're the people that afk in runs because they want free tomestones (aka I want gear now players).

I'm pretty indifferent to the system since more vanity stuff is cool, I'm just saying that it will only really benefit players that were already being considerate, but won't do anything to stop the players that use DF just to be annoying.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

and how does not adding it help? because for a time is better than what it is now. Besides you don't know how much this "for a time" is, it might be eternal with increasingly awesome rewards for each week or something crazy.

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Yes, we don't know the details. But the barding, mounts, pet fluff they are trying to advertise with this doesn't interest me at all. Now if you can use the MVP points on repairs, change your armor appearance (use darklight but have a costume type thing), or something else awesome (or maybe people find those ideas lame), then I would like it. The point I'm trying to make is there will probably be people that don't like the rewards even though they are there.

Yes, they could add rewards that take months upon months to obtain but I feel it could become a boring grind to get those items. Maybe I'm completely wrong here though because grinding is what you do in MMOs.

Perhaps you don't even find out if you got upvoted until dungeon is over.

That way, there's no way to know until you've left.

The idea has merit, but I'm not sure that the rewards are good enough to make the dbags care.

If you could trade points for tomestones, well...

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

If they allow pre made parties, what is to stop ppl from just bringing friends who plan to rate them up for whatever they do? Randomization is the only way to remotely assure that people cannot game the system by bringing in assured rate up party members.

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Read the OP more carefully. It addresses everything you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Ecks007

I gotta say. I don't like this. I mean, I see why you would want to reward people for being voted on as being nice and all, but this completely excludes players who pre-make parties on their own servers now, from obtaining these specific items as quickly as a random joe schmo who wants to queue up by themselves and wait forever (if they are a dps job). Healers and Tanks will be able to take advantage of this system exclusively, if they act helpful and friendly far quicker than any DPS class that does the same exact thing. This is not a good thing. It is not as good as it sounds in theory.

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If they allow pre made parties, what is to stop ppl from just bringing friends who plan to rate them up for whatever they do? Randomization is the only way to remotely assure that people cannot game the system by bringing in assured rate up party members.

I disagree that only healers/tanks can benefit. I personally find each role's contribution to be important for evaluation. Also, they can create categories according to party role. Helpful [healer, tank, dps] not just merely helpful in general. By creating categories they encourage people to evaluate all helpful roles. I look forward to seeing how it works at least.

I do not think this will work unfortunately, the problem is not that people are elite or new players, but it is the person's own attitude to others. Best and play with friends who you know or have become friends with in-game or randoms from their own server and would this person or persons to be somewhat unsuccessful victim then just blacklist and move on. I hate people who do not take for himself a bit of help or advice, but just shush play your game do not care what I'm doing.

This looks pretty good :o

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

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This doesn't really sound like an ideal solution. So once you gain a certain amount of MVP points you can grief all you want? You're relying on people's desire for mounts/minions to act nice? I'm seeing this offering a slight improvement but I don't see it as a solution.

As a healer that revives often, stops to cast stoneskin randomly, and one who absolutely loves to help a player in need, I definitely support this idea :D

this will lead to abuse anyway.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

this will lead to abuse anyway.

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how so? I honestly how can't this lead to abuse

Ok, hold up... So a "kick" feature is not being added? No way.

Well, I guess we'll see how this "solution" plays out.

Ever since I started playing this game I can honestly say that SE cannot take a step forward without taking two steps backwards.

Anyways, instead of vanity items and stuff that at some point will become irrelevant (or will be completely irrelevant to some players) SE should do something to create parties with players on your same amount/% of reputation. That way good players will encounter good players and bad players only bad players. Perhaps make it so that each run you get the chance to give thumbs up or down to a random player or all the party and take those points into account when creating your DF party. No need for vanity items or yet another currency (MVP points). Plus by adding MVP-only items SE is excluding players who only run with pre-made parties.

/sigh We'll see what happens.

I appreciate the effort.

No system would be perfect. At least this gives us an opportunity to say "Hey, I really appreciated that player," and give him or her a thank you. I hope it works out, but minds for exploitation have never ceased to amaze me. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

Plus by adding MVP-only items SE is excluding players who only run with pre-made parties.

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Their intent is to get people who have friends/LS/FCs to instead start grouping up with random people. I completely disagree with that notion, but I really doubt they'll ever change their opinion on it...

If MVP could be traded for loot from dungeons, I'd actually be perfectly fine with it. Then we'd have two options; go in pre-made and organize who gets what, or go in random and don't be a dick. That would actually be kind of alright, instead it is items which have absolutely no connection to the Derpy Finder though...

can u link the official post from SE about this plz

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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The problem with this system is that you are not directly punishing players who are acting in a negative manner. If you are going the distance to code responses then why not add a function where an account gets flagged for review after X number of "unfriendly, harrassing" etc? In this way you can filter out the one-off of someone marking someone down for simply being angry but if that same character is getting 50-60 then there's probably a problem.

All we asked for, was a simple kick option to get rid of all griefers / leechers / morons / bad skilled / whatever, people from our groups.

Not some reward system that will be abused to death as soon as people find a way.
Plus i hate to have to rely on people will to obtain items.

This was maybe a good idea on paper, but lets face reality, it's not gonna solve anything, just look at how dumb people are.
The only new thing this system will bring is a new "MVP for MVP or i will leave / not help" type of griefers.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

While I understand the good intentions of this system, I think it's just going to lead to further abuse from players, especially tanks and/or healers that can hold the group hostage to give them good votes since they basically hold the fate of the group in their hands. I'm not saying this will become commonplace, but there certainly seem like there are enough bad apples out there

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Well let's see... MVP Vote happens AFTER the run has concluded... this means that if someone tries to 'hold the group hostage' all they have to do is verbally aquiesce and then they can just not vote for that person... run has already finished, so there is nothing the tank/healer can do except whine and cry. I suppose they can make a character on each server of other players and make a false claim against them, but I think SE is smart enough to figure out the truth behind it.

While it's commendable to give players the option to reward good behavior, I'm also of the group who thinks that it's more important to punish trolls and unfriendly players, whom are running rampant in DF. Most of them are being absolute d*cks ONLY because they know they will get away with it. Let's say if 1 player gives you a thumbs down, that's no penalty.

When 2 players give you thumbs down, that's 10 minutes wait penalty the next time you queue for ANYTHING. 3 downvotes? 1 hour penalty. 4 or more? Get logged out immediately and prevented from logging back in for 24 hours. That would give the trolls and mean people some incentive to behave more civilized towards other players.

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Originally Posted by Kalamari

stuff

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nope, this will allow me and two of my buddies to give you 3 thumbs down and not let you play for an hour just because. You join my duty finder and you will suffer one hour. See with any system where the users punish other users, trolls will troll. It seems you don't know the lengths to which people will go just to grieve. The other day there was a thread about how people killed the lambs just to troll the fate farmers.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

nope, this will allow me and two of my buddies to give you 3 thumbs down and not let you play for an hour just because. You join my duty finder and you will suffer one hour. See with any system where the users punish other users, trolls will troll. It seems you don't know the lengths to which people will go just to grieve. The other day there was a thread about how people killed the lambs just to troll the fate farmers.

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Yeah, they would have to prevent folks from the same FC or friends list to count for more than 1 vote per group. Not abuse-proof either.. but better than what we got today.

Just reading the basics (not knowing details) this seems like a disaster to me.

To people sayin there should be a way to punish players, in all my years of playing mmos I've learnt never give players the power to pass negative judgement. i.e kicking/reporting/downvoting, it never works. People these days will cast down votes on you for the most stupidest things. They don't like your class, you haven't got a certain item or even just for the hell of it. This idea is a good one, but needs work, the only thing i can see wrong with it, out of all the comments and arguments against the idea are, FC groups and pre-mades will be cut out of the loop and wont be able to obtain the items and all the other stuff.

Lets see how this plays out, as long as they keep out what i said at the beginning then the abuse of this will be minimal

In addition to individual MVP vote casting, you should also allow a party-majority thumbs down.

I can see it now;

Start of PUG:
Guy one: So, we all upvote each other at the end of the dungeon?
Everyone else: Yup

Or if they limit it to one upvote per party;

Start of PUG:
Guy1: So I'll upvote 2, 2 upvotes 3, 3 upvotes 4, 4 upvotes me.
Everyone: Agreed


This is just begging to be abused. Please don't follow through with it!

I'd like to have MVP points. It doesn't need to do anything either. Karma means jack s--- but I like getting upvotes on reddit anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

*snip*

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I don't see that as abusing it.. From what i'm guessing the system is to stop bad behavior, if the group all agree to upvote but then one member keeps flaming or insulting i doubt the group will still feel happy about upvoting him (remember these are randoms not good mates). if the group all agree and the run goes smoothly with no flaming or insulting, then i don't see why they shouldn't upvote each other. Because like i said it's to prevent bad behavior. I could be wrong and it could go wrong lol, but i'm finding it hard to find ways this could be abused massivily, unless you get constantly grouped with people you know on another server :/ .