Say no to Cross-world group finders

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Originally Posted by Skeeter

The don't use it argument doesn't really work. The effects on the community will be felt. I have felt it in other games, I know what I experienced. When dungeon finders came out they were the only way to get groups because people can't be bothered forming pre mades anymore. Unless the content is incredibly hard people don't bother making server only groups unless it is linkshell only. This feature really hurts when it comes to forming friendships. FFXI had a great community because you NEEDED each other.

This tool is good for people who don't care about really interacting or socializing, which to me defeats the purpose of an MMO entirely. People join the groups, nobody talks. One wipe and people usually leave and don't listen to each other. There is zero personal accountability, reputation means nothing when you will never play with the person again. You will manage to play with some good players too but they are on a different server its not like you can do anything with them.

This feature has ruined other games for me, and if FF14 adds it I won't stick around. I have been out growing MMOs because while I like casual content, there is no emphasis on community anymore.

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Yeah I agree with this, especially the last part :/ Feels like I'm going to have to quit MMO's all together soon, and I'm only 22...

As I've stated in the other thread, my only condition is that this feature is an option. As long as I can still group up with my LS or others on my server and complete the same content I see absolutely no reason why this is even an issue.

This issue is not as black and white as most make it seem.

If it's an option, everyone is going to use it @_@;;

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Indeed. Been saying that for awhile.

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Where's your character Kaedan? How do we know you even play this game?

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

If it's an option, everyone is going to use it @_@;;

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Yeah like how everyone has the Aggro icons on.

Everyone does, why wouldn't you? lol

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Papers, Fräulein! Show me your papers!!

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Seriously guys & gals. This "you don't play FF14 so STFU" attitude that's developing in the community is a slippery slope. The next step in the downward spiral is "you didn't play FF11 so STFU", followed by "you're too young so STFU", and finally "you're a girl so STFU, get in the kitchen and make me some pie."

The only credential necessary to voice a legitimate opinion or feedback on an SE Forum is that Square-Enix offered you a membership and allowed you to do so ... at their request. That's it. Believe it or not, we are here at the request of SE to provide a service that they need ... specifically feedback. Our purpose here is not to judge or prejudge who is worthy to have an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

If it's an option, everyone is going to use it @_@;;

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And? If it's an option you are not forced to use it. You can still organize groups with your friends or LS mates on the same server. It does not effect you if it is an option and you choose not to use it. The only problem is when it is forced and I don't think the dev team is dumb enough to do that.

If it was an option, I wouldn't use it anyway. Oh look I've invalidated your argument as now not everyone will use it.

Tbh tho, why do we even need a cross-server party search? Now I imagine many people will point out that servers are low population etc. That isnt exactly so. More often than not, it is certain cities which are low in population (gridania being the lowest). So, in server, find a large populus and mingle with the locals :D

Secondly, this game is coming out on the ps3, that is a VERY popular platform, many of it's players are FF players also. If anything, I would imainge that they would have to add servers to fill in the rush of ppl who will buy this on ps3.

Yes, I know FFXI was on xbox, but that was a VERY late release. Most of the ppl who purchased the xbox version had indeed played it on pc in the past. As you can imagine, a very small increase in users there. The ps3, will add many more to this, as well as people returning to this game when it is much further in development,

It seems a catch-22 has turned up. People are saying cross-server parties will help with low populations (either low server or the few minutes a global MMO has which is off peak). In an upfront way, yes it would make finding others easier.

However, the situation seems to stand that this is infact a deal breaker! So, if this is released it would seem many servers will drop their population. Some have pointed out, cross-server party systems seem very unpopular in this game (granted, there are those who see it as a good thing). Atm it seems like cross server party search = loss of players.

On the flip side of the coin, people who are for cross-server parties have stated that it is not a deal breaker if they dont. So that people dont shoot themselves in the foot, leaving cross server parties out of this game will infact make looking for parties easier, as each server will remain more full

Kimiko x

EDIT Additional: also, can we have some sort of contact from SE to clear this up. We have many threads on this (of which one is mine, obviously as you are reading it) and i think some sort of reassurence either way would really put the ducks (yes, thats us) in a row.

Just something to let us know what you guys are thinking. *Gives a little wave to SE staff*

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Originally Posted by chime85

Tbh tho, why do we even need a cross-server party search? Now I imagine many people will point out that servers are low population etc. That isnt exactly so. More often than not, it is certain cities which are low in population (gridania being the lowest). So, in server, find a large populus and mingle with the locals :D

Secondly, this game is coming out on the ps3, that is a VERY popular platform, many of it's players are FF players also. If anything, I would imainge that they would have to add servers to fill in the rush of ppl who will buy this on ps3.

Yes, I know FFXI was on xbox, but that was a VERY late release. Most of the ppl who purchased the xbox version had indeed played it on pc in the past. As you can imagine, a very small increase in users there. The ps3, will add many more to this, as well as people returning to this game when it is much further in development,

It seems a catch-22 has turned up. People are saying cross-server parties will help with low populations (either low server or the few minutes a global MMO has which is off peak). In an upfront way, yes it would make finding others easier.

However, the situation seems to stand that this is infact a deal breaker! So, if this is released it would seem many servers will drop their population. Some have pointed out, cross-server party systems seem very unpopular in this game (granted, there are those who see it as a good thing). Atm it seems like cross server party search = loss of players.

On the flip side of the coin, people who are for cross-server parties have stated that it is not a deal breaker if they dont. So that people dont shoot themselves in the foot, leaving cross server parties out of this game will infact make looking for parties easier, as each server will remain more full

Kimiko x

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Yoshi P. needs to in his next letter say he will not implement cross server instance que, so we can put this stupid topic to death.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

You don;t know me stop judging me. This is the REAL reason you guys do not want it. I'm no loner I did have several Social LS's in ffxi. You guys are so judgemental its getting irritating. You want a good community. Act like it. Get to know a person before assuming. I just don;t want to always have to wait to get help in a quest. Or 6 hours for a party because lack of players not partying. I'm no loner or solo'er.

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But Kilta this feature will not have anything to do with partying or quests, its strictly for the dungeons. Personally I think adding the cross server feature to dungeons is a cop out. I think SE's first order of business here is to fix the party search system. offer both lfp and looking for group members, that will bring people together to group together outside of dungeons.

As well if the dungeon can be pug'd it won't be that hard or engaging. The content will be lacking if 5,6,7,8 people can walk in not knowing each others play style or the whole strategy and not having overly appropriate jobs/classes then the content will be far to easy and we will be bored rather quickly.

So my vote is no on cross server dungeons.

/signed

there's absolutely no need for it in the way people keep asking. There's a whole game world out there to play in, lazy gamers are not the casuals or the hardcores, they're just lazy. Get out there you lazy bums, and strike a conversation! don't expect everyone to approach you, that's not how life works!

Hmm.. why u guys against this so much?
I don't see any problem it this feature and it should solve some problem like lack of someone to party with..
I think you looking it with your bad experience about this feature.
I think this feature is not make problem with good manner players like most of Japanese players and some mature US players and elsewhere.

I am all against this, but this reason is totally wrong:

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2) gives oportunity for ninja's:

With less responsability for player reputations, you can and will come across people who see this as an invitation to take advantage of the situation and rob the party of everything they worked for.
However, this does have a flip side and gives some players the chance to shout "ninja" every time they do not get their own way, regardless of what may occour.

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People ninja now and get away with it and people forget after a month. So you can never get rid of it.

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I am all against this, but this reason is totally wrong:

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Ok, what reasons are you against cross-world servers? Any additional viewpoints are more than welcome :)

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Seriously guys & gals. This "you don't play FF14 so STFU" attitude that's developing in the community is a slippery slope. The next step in the downward spiral is "you didn't play FF11 so STFU", followed by "you're too young so STFU", and finally "you're a girl so STFU, get in the kitchen and make me some pie."

The only credential necessary to voice a legitimate opinion or feedback on an SE Forum is that Square-Enix offered you a membership and allowed you to do so ... at their request. That's it. Believe it or not, we are here at the request of SE to provide a service that they need ... specifically feedback. Our purpose here is not to judge or prejudge who is worthy to have an opinion.

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Umm, why would I want to hear the opinion of someone who DOESN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME THEY'RE GIVING AN OPINION ON? lol? Their entire opinion is based on things OTHER PEOPLE say, they have no opinion of their own. Therefor, they should not post.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Actually this is coming too I'd imagine because the mod mentioned "looking for group" system akin to FFXI.

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i hope it does come

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Umm, why would I want to hear the opinion of someone who DOESN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME THEY'RE GIVING AN OPINION ON? lol? Their entire opinion is based on things OTHER PEOPLE say, they have no opinion of their own. Therefor, they should not post.

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Well I guess you can look at it that way, if you choose.

But does someone have to directly experience something in order to voice an a legitimate opinion on it? Do I have to use automatic weapons in order to say that I think they are a bad idea? Do I have to live in a democracy in order to say that I think democracies are a good idea?

First-hand experience always helps, but I personally do not believe that it is a requirement for having an opinion on a particular subject matter.

SE should bring back level sync...

Kilta wrong again

I made a very constructive post in another thread of the four going on right now.

I am not a fan of the feature and would prefer it not available in the game, well at least the auto group part. i would rather be able to join a cross server chat and /sea all lfd 45-50 and ask people. Because talking to them before hand and being able to build the pt from scratch means something to me.


As well my biggest concern is not people ninja looting, my actual concern is what is the difficulty level of the dungeon. Because if its too easy there is a strong reason for people to PUG them, bc its 100% win. Where you need communication and being able to build a team of players you've spoken to before the dungeon/raid/castle w/e you want to call it. If its hard enough there needs to be immense amounts of communication before, during, and after. that's my fear with this type of dungeon system, is how it will affect the type of content that SE will deliver.

I have always said sure make content available to everyone, but it should not mean everyone should be entitled to complete it with actually trying.


ha ha ha may last post was in this thread gah, sorry for the redundancy guys.

Definitely no on the cross server thing.

I want to be able to wander around town or a hamlet and then see Sooper Neatguy run to some NPC and I can remember when he ran into a group of aggro mobs and pulled them all to us but we somehow managed to survive thanks to Jimmy Jones and Clouds Trife.

I want to be able to say hey whatcha doin and then run and do NM's with him. Rather than manage to get into a cross server dungeon with people I won't see again and won't remember the next day.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Do I have to use automatic weapons in order to say that I think they are a bad idea? Do I have to live in a democracy in order to say that I think democracies are a good idea?

First-hand experience always helps, but I personally do not believe that it is a requirement for having an opinion on a particular subject matter.

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Flawed. You don't need to use automated weapons to say you are againt them, but you need to have experience with them if you are voicing your opinion on how to improve those automated weapons.

No cross server anything. I know the populations on each server aren't exactly great right now but build a good game and keep people interested and you won't have this problem.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Well I guess you can look at it that way, if you choose.

But does someone have to directly experience something in order to voice an a legitimate opinion on it? Do I have to use automatic weapons in order to say that I think they are a bad idea? Do I have to live in a democracy in order to say that I think democracies are a good idea?

First-hand experience always helps, but I personally do not believe that it is a requirement for having an opinion on a particular subject matter.

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Originally Posted by Jamel-Irief

Flawed. You don't need to use automated weapons to say you are againt them, but you need to have experience with them if you are voicing your opinion on how to improve those automated weapons.

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Well I guess it depends on what you consider to be the "automatic weapons" in this argument, and what we are trying to do with it.

If FFXIV is the "automatic weapon" that we are trying to improve, then yes, you are right. Experience does matter in forming an opinion. I agree.

If Cross-World Parties is the "automatic weapon" which we are for or against, then no. One does not need experience using them to have a valid opinion on whether they should exist or not.

I guess it depends on how you are looking at the argument.

Bad Idea.

I only made it to page 11 before i had to stop reading so sorry if it way off topic or these people finally stopped talking.

I had to stop reading when i got to "a rdm that DD's isnt a bad rdm, get over it" or something like that and someone said "the current lotting system prevents ninja-lotting.... really? You mean where a group of people kill something and the item drops to anyone randomly and they personally chose if they deserve it, like 4 years down the road and you invite a new member into a ls and he comes to events, first NM kill something randoms to him and he takes it. Personally i would rather trust a party leader/leader of a ls over every single member/new members.

If you DD'ed with rdm on 11 (while soloing), fine. If you did this in a party your stupidity is astounding. Even though it may be "your" play-style, your play-style is stupid and inefficient. "Your" play style hurts everyones xp/hr and you should just go solo, every single post of yours i have read kilta or w/e has in a some way made me and everyone elce who has read it a little dumber.

If you talked in your dyna ls like you do on these forums constantly argueing with your "im always right bs" and playing the victum in everything that is said, i wouldnt like you either, may god have mercy on your soul.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Bad Idea.

I only made it to page 11 before i had to stop reading so sorry if it way off topic or these people finally stopped talking.

I had to stop reading when i got to "a rdm that DD's isnt a bad rdm, get over it" or something like that and someone said "the current lotting system prevents ninja-lotting.... really? You mean where a group of people kill something and the item drops to anyone randomly and they personally chose if they deserve it, like 4 years down the road and you invite a new member into a ls and he comes to events, first NM kill something randoms to him and he takes it. Personally i would rather trust a party leader/leader of a ls over every single member/new members.

If you DD'ed with rdm on 11 (while soloing), fine. If you did this is a party your stupidity is astounding. Even though it may be "your" play-style, your play-style is stupid and inefficient. "Your" play style hurts everyones xp/hr and you should just go solo, every single post of yours i have read kilta or w/e has in a some way made me and everyone elce who has read it a little dumber.

If you talked in your dyna ls like you do on these forums constantly argueing with your "im always right bs" and playing the victum in everything that is said, i wouldnt like you either, may god have mercy on your soul.

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*applaudes* xD

Kilta does not play this game and needs to stop posting, please stop responding to him/her/it, thank you.

i'm against it if its a copy from the cross-server instant group dungeon feature from wow, if its a totally new system that does cross-server, im ok with it...i just dont want this game to turn in a wow like game...i would be playing wow if thats not the case.

Thanks!

...........wait, I got to the end? *blinks*

Anyhoo, I'm against cross-server grouping for the reason of player accountability (or lackthereof). I don't think details are necessary after 19 pages of feedback and fluff.

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Originally Posted by Enthy

SE should bring back level sync...

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THIS!! This is a system which has proven to work. This is not a western vs easterm mmo thing, or a "you must hate Wow" etc. Both have interesting a plausable ideas

The level sync system worked. It was very efficient and allowed alot more flexability whilst trying to find groups. This is just one alternative to cross-server partying, as well as someone who suggested having a small flag by your name. Or even talking.

Or here's another idea. A few "rally points". kind of like the Inns, but without the NPC's taking all the chairs. dot a few around the world in small towns and large cities. This could very well be a much more efficient way of finding group members than randomly approaching anyone and everyone.

If said "rally points" were dotted across the world, you can garentee the nearest one to your destination would have people with the same goals as yourself. Party problem solved :)

Kimiko x

I seriously hope they do not implement cross-server party, it does nothing good for the community.

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Kilta does not play this game and needs to stop posting, please stop responding to him/her/it, thank you.

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She is more than welcome to post in the forums. But with that in mind, Kilta_firelotus, darling, you DO need to reduce your posts hun. Why not use the edit button a little more? Each post-window can fit in a large amount of text. Do not be affraid to push that limit per-post :)

On topic again, For those who wish to see Cross-server Parties, I give you this to think of. The ps3 release will add a massive population to each server. I imagine some lagging at higher populated spots. With this in mind, I ask you, why do you feel you need cross-server party searches?

Before you search other servers, is there not some way we can think of to search our own servers effectively? Some of you have demanded that us "non cross server" people come up with some ideas. Please, state a few of your own :)

Kimiko x

As far as I know, no one has tried a server only one (feel free to correct me).

Really, it's not about how large the pool of players is, it's just about filling the spots. If the dungeons are based around a party of four, then you just need those 4 positions filled at any given moment, or at least within a reasonable time. I used to wait 20 minutes tops as a healer. If an in-server LDF got groups together within that time-frame, I'd call that reasonable.

Even thinking about it makes me sick.

This is a game breaker,add it and i will quit.

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Originally Posted by chime85

Ok, what reasons are you against cross-world servers? Any additional viewpoints are more than welcome :)

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Mainly just the other reasons, but I dont think Ninja will be it, if there was a lot system, then I could see it but there isnt and its all random and so people do it now all the time. Hell people even take LS banks or materials and walk away laughing.

Anywho one thing that I think will be annoying is:
Peeps from server A: "Okay we're going to fight it from behind and sleep the pet!"
peeps from server B: "no no thats not how we do it"
peeps from server C: "amma just run in we always do that"

etc..

I did a lot of server hopping in XI cuse I only played with my brother and family, so wasnt much of a big issue to get up n leave a server and I noticed servers do things differently, they also abbreviate differently, some people say I remember first transfer and i kept seing PST, no one ever said this on my previous server, no idea what it ment, figured it was timezone at first but made no sense, then i figured it out, but then next server they'd do (/tell) <me> and it was like this with so many different things. Another example would be some servers do open, free dynamis, just turn up, join and u can fight, just put some comment in bazaar of what u want, but the guy hosting gets all the goodies, and we used to do like 60 man dyn, then i moved server and there was no one who did this, if i wanted to do dyn i had to join a ls through online applications and all this garbage, cuse they do things differently.

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Originally Posted by viion

Mainly just the other reasons, but I dont think Ninja will be it, if there was a lot system, then I could see it but there isnt and its all random and so people do it now all the time. Hell people even take LS banks or materials and walk away laughing.

Anywho one thing that I think will be annoying is:
Peeps from server A: "Okay we're going to fight it from behind and sleep the pet!"
peeps from server B: "no no thats not how we do it"
peeps from server C: "amma just run in we always do that"

etc..

I did a lot of server hopping in XI cuse I only played with my brother and family, so wasnt much of a big issue to get up n leave a server and I noticed servers do things differently, they also abbreviate differently, some people say I remember first transfer and i kept seing PST, no one ever said this on my previous server, no idea what it ment, figured it was timezone at first but made no sense, then i figured it out, but then next server they'd do (/tell) <me> and it was like this with so many different things. Another example would be some servers do open, free dynamis, just turn up, join and u can fight, just put some comment in bazaar of what u want, but the guy hosting gets all the goodies, and we used to do like 60 man dyn, then i moved server and there was no one who did this, if i wanted to do dyn i had to join a ls through online applications and all this garbage, cuse they do things differently.

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As i agree that server populations can be different i do not feel that what you stated is even a valid concern with cross sever ques.

Compiled problems:

1. Ninja loot
2. Lack of accountability in general which leads to lazyness and free loading (also known as a collective action problem).
3. Break down of a community
4. Break down of reasons to leave main cites.

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Originally Posted by Bled

As i agree that server populations can be different i do not feel that is the main problem with cross sever ques.

1. Ninja loot
2. Lack of accountability in general which leads to lazyness and free loading (also known as a collective action problem).
3. Break down of a community
4. Break down of reasons to leave main cites.

Any political scientist can identify this as text book collective action problem.
- simple definition, a situation in which the uncoordinated actions of each person may not result in the best outcome he or she can achieve.

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Hmm, not sure why you quoted me. I did not say it is a main problem, its just an issue that causes flaming and argument and people getting angry. But it doesnt happen all the time and is no different than maybe going on your fave multiplayer game on xbox and being with randomers.

Anywho

As I've said Ninja Loot is NOT a reason for it, here is few reasons why

1. It already happens, time after time it happens, theres no risk of reputation for many reasons under that:
   1. You dont need many people to do anything
   2. Your reputation is meaningless to do anything, part of 1
   3. People forget very soon
2. Loot is random, you didnt "lot" it and grab it, it just landed in your pocket.
   1. That person that did "steal" is going to be back most likely so you can decline playing then

You cant say a system will cause something that already exists. And which this game does absolute nothing to prevent happening.

XI reputation ment a lot because you NEEDED other people, in this game you can do everything on your own or with close friends. And looking at the future it is fairly certain the team are keeping it that way. Bad reputation in XI ment no linkshells, no linkshell ment no Dynamis, no Limbus, no Sky not being able to do any of the things that used to require a lot of people. (Sadly all perished now...) But in XIV it is not the case. No linkshell means wait 1 month and then get one, and even having no linkshell you'll have friends who will stand by you even if you are the biggest douche on the server, so with 3-4 friends you've got the entire game covered.

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Originally Posted by viion

Hmm, not sure why you quoted me. I did not say it is a main problem, its just an issue that causes flaming and argument and people getting angry. But it doesnt happen all the time and is no different than maybe going on your fave multiplayer game on xbox and being with randomers.

Anywho

As I've said Ninja Loot is NOT a reason for it, here is few reasons why

1. It already happens, time after time it happens, theres no risk of reputation for many reasons under that:
   1. You dont need many people to do anything
   2. Your reputation is meaningless to do anything, part of 1
   3. People forget very soon
2. Loot is random, you didnt "lot" it and grab it, it just landed in your pocket.
   1. That person that did "steal" is going to be back most likely so you can decline playing then

You cant say a system will cause something that already exists. And which this game does absolute nothing to prevent happening.

XI reputation ment a lot because you NEEDED other people, in this game you can do everything on your own or with close friends. And looking at the future it is fairly certain the team are keeping it that way. Bad reputation in XI ment no linkshells, no linkshell ment no Dynamis, no Limbus, no Sky not being able to do any of the things that used to require a lot of people. (Sadly all perished now...) But in XIV it is not the case. No linkshell means wait 1 month and then get one, and even having no linkshell you'll have friends who will stand by you even if you are the biggest douche on the server, so with 3-4 friends you've got the entire game covered.

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Good points on ninja looting. However ninja looting directly correlates to point #2 that i made, cross server que creates a collective action problem which no mater how you look at it increases ninja looting/trolling of any kind.

Edited above for your enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Good points on ninja looting. However ninja looting directly correlates to point #2 that i made, cross server que creates a collective action problem which no mater how you look at it increases ninja looting/trolling of any kind.

Edited above for your enjoyment.

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Sorry here, I did not understand your #2 so I ignored it for now to just concentrate onto the ninja point, and while Trolling is a valid point I still think Ninja looting is not one (Mind you, there is no existing of Looting, the game does it, not you).

But if you could explain more on this cross server que thingy, or expand on your #2 I could see what you're trying to say, you seem to have more experience in it than I do, I've never ever played a game with it, (I only know wow does it? And only played it like once for an hr or so a long time ago.)

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Originally Posted by viion

Sorry here, I did not understand your #2 so I ignored it for now to just concentrate onto the ninja point, and while Trolling is a valid point I still think Ninja looting is not one (Mind you, there is no existing of Looting, the game does it, not you).

But if you could explain more on this cross server que thingy, or expand on your #2 I could see what you're trying to say, you seem to have more experience in it than I do, I've never ever played a game with it, (I only know wow does it? And only played it like once for an hr or so a long time ago.)

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My second point was based on the political science theory of the Collective Action Problem. If you are really interested in it look it up, it is a very interesting theory and much to deep for me to really lay out and explain on a forum post which id rather not do lol.

The basic premise of it though is unless there is coercion or some other special device to make individuals in a group act in their common interest, rational, self-interested individuals will not act to achieve their common or group interests. By implementing cross server ques for instanced dungeons you are decreasing accountability because after said instance the antagonist will never see that group again, and if that group wanted to spread the word of that persons actions they couldn't because everyone is from a different server.