Heals for Scholors need a buff

There doesn't seem to be a problem with the SCH healing... but it does sound like there is room for improvement to the pet UI.

That is why I chose to level a WHM before scholar... I figured there would be some growing pains with the pets. I do get jealous of the SCH mana situation, but remind myself that the jobs are different for a reason and although both heal, they can play different roles in large groups.

Whm being superior to stack and sch being penalized to stack is a current imbalance problem that needs fixes.

When succor or aql heals a shielded target instead of no effect it should turn the no effect part of the heal into extra heals or hot .

Or they can let 2 sch stack their spells like 2 whm can. Double and triple medica2/regen is broken as hell healing. So 2 sch shield wouldnt be too bad since sch still will lack the burst aoe heals which is sorely needed for the hardmode and coil.

Lastly ,they could be mean and stop whm spells stacking so that 1 sch + 1 whm is always superior to 2 whm or 2 sch.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Whm being superior to stack and sch being penalized to stack is a current imbalance problem that needs fixes.

When succor or aql heals a shielded target instead of no effect it should turn the no effect part of the heal into extra heals or hot .

Or they can let 2 sch stack their spells like 2 whm can. Double and triple medica2/regen is broken as hell healing. So 2 sch shield wouldnt be too bad since sch still will lack the burst aoe heals which is sorely needed for the hardmode and coil.

Lastly ,they could be mean and stop whm spells stacking so that 1 sch + 1 whm is always superior to 2 whm or 2 sch.

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The first option is unlikely. Overheal is overheal. A Whm doesn't get overheal converted to a HoT or Shield. So, no. Working as intended. That is the benefit of a shield.

As far as the abilities stacking... the problem there is unique to shields. It would be fine with them stacking, except that shield stacking poses a unique problem of being able to spam and outstack damage to the point, where you triviliaze encounters. Stacking HoTs doesn't prevent damage.... so if 2k damage comes in, you take the damage and then heal up. If you could stack shields, then that damage is prevented, which can simply override mechanics that could be meant to kill you.. or otherwise reduce your health.

Even if someone has a heal that will completely heal an entire group, after they take damage- before that heal- there is danger of dying. Stacking shields and preventing damage mitigates any danger.

Shields are inherently superior to healing, so you can't expect to have equal healing AND shields. You also have to recognize the damage balancing limitations that exist on shields. Damage can't be balanced against stacked shields, or they will one-shot people and make shielders mandatory.

(Edit: Also, stacking shields to prevent need for burst healing makes the whm burst healing niche obsolete... which would mean they would need to give whm equal mana regen tools and shields... you are homogenizing because you refuse to accept your limitations and class/job distinction. You want it all.)

Why do you want to be competitive with a us White Mages? If you want to ... then just be a White Mage. Each class was designed a certain way, if you don't like the design of your class, switch your main hand weapon. I wish people would learn they don't normally "buff" classes in these games... especially healing classes. If you complain too much, square is more likely to make white mages WORSE healers than make you better ones.

Yeah, I am leveling a whm and a scholar and prefer to just switch jobs as needed than have one class be completely worthless because of a few bad whiny players. The whole point of the armory system is that you can switch, as needed.

So, if you think whms are so much better, or your group wants one for an encounter, just switch to whm. It's that easy. For fights where SCH is preferred, I will just switch to scholar... not whine that everything needs to cater to whms.

The flamewars in this thread make me sad. Aren't we healers all on the same team?

Pet healing needs to be scaled to our gear, thats the only buff I think we need, otherwise everything seems pretty on point.

A few problems I see from lots of pug SCH's that I think needs to be fixed:

• Your faerie should never, ever be heeled during a boss fight. Place her halfway between you and the tank so the entire group (including a Warrior tank) get the heal/mDef buff. She will also heal more reliably, as the healing is much more sluggish if she's moving around with you.
• Hotkey Embrace and force casts as soon as someone gets hit. Focus target the tank, and make an Embrace Focus Target macro. Spam it.
• You should almost always use 2 Aetherflows on Sacred Soil. It's good to keep one in reserve until the CD is up in case you have to Lustrate or Energy Drain, but with 2 SCH there's no reason for the tank to not always be Sacred Soil'd.
• You should aim to always have Shadow Flare up. 30s duration Slow on a 3s cast should almost always follow a crit Adlo. Of course, I see plenty of SMN that don't keep it up and I'm just as baffled.

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Originally Posted by Paralein

Yes, absorption is not healing. In fact, as Apollo said, it is better than healing.
- Ignoring boss mechanics. With a decent absorb shield up, players are able to take hits that should (in theory) oneshot them. Especially important in fights with lots of AE in combination with heavy single target hits.
- Burst healing before damage happens. Usually (no matter the MMO), boss damage happens in spikes. Typically, large parts of boss fights will have relatively low damage done to the party, followed by periods of heavy damage or periods in which healing is made difficult/impossibly due to som mechanic. In these situations, being an absorb healer means having the MASSIVE advantage of being able to do some 'healing' before the damage happens, which hugely faciliates topping off the group during or after the damage period.

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LOL a SCH shield is nothing compared to SS... especially on the tank, Those pathetic shields will never be worth it in endgame.

Not saying whm is OP
I am saying that sch is greatly penalized when there is another sch in the party, whereas whm is not since their regen and medica stack. That is an imbalance. Just like it be an imbalance if smn could not debuff a target if there was another smn in the pt.

2 sch's Succor should stack, its shield is negligible unless it crits (which cannot be relied upon)
Most endgame encounters a 500 hp shield will not trivialize it. Sch will still lack the raw burst aoe healing numbers to quickly heal people from low.

Whms have plenty of preemptive healing too, with a 18% of max hp stoneskin damage absorption as well.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

However, I will say that on anything with ground, environment, and unavoidable damage then you're in trouble. The first boss in Qarn, and the first boss is Aurum, for example, are almost guaranteed to kill off your Fairy. Without your Fairy, you're just a gimp WHM.

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This, you become useless and unable to do much.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Not saying whm is OP
I am saying that sch is greatly penalized when there is another sch in the party, whereas whm is not since their regen and medica stack. That is an imbalance. Just like it be an imbalance if smn could not debuff a target if there was another smn in the pt.

2 sch's Succor should stack, its shield is negligible unless it crits (which cannot be relied upon)
Most endgame encounters a 500 hp shield will not trivialize it. Sch will still lack the raw burst aoe healing numbers to quickly heal people from low.

Whms have plenty of preemptive healing too, with a 18% of max hp stoneskin damage absorption as well.

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i agree.. either edit it so whm spells don't stack or let sch spells stack.. and work on ai... i shouldnt have to add faerie spells to my toolbar so they are activated when i want them to be...

Just bind the pet bar, the UI lets you do that. Problem solved, basically.

I've found few situations so far where I was really challenged in terms of healing. We've been running WHM + myself, and I've been able to do all of the dungeons fine without much of an issue.

I will say that the pet UI \ AI needs a bit of readjusting, and it would be nice if we had an AOE version of our non-shield heal. That or up both the mana cost and the power of the AOE shield heal. To compensate you'd probably need to tune down SCH mana regen since it's impossible to OOM. I find I have to do way more pre-casting w/ succor than I thought I'd have to so that I can keep up with damage patterns at times.

Other than that, the class feels fine. I'm not really being overshadowed by WHM's, just have to micromanage more than they do.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

LOL a SCH shield is nothing compared to SS... especially on the tank, Those pathetic shields will never be worth it in endgame.

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Wat. Stoneskin gives an average, 5100hp~ tank a 950~ shield at a 3s cast time. My average Adlo with Darklight/Ifirt heals for around 600 on a 2s casttime, so 600 healing and a 600 shield. Erm.

Stoneskin is one of the most worthless skills in the game.

The aoe stacking argument with shields verus whm regen is silly. I am seeing the fact that whm has an aoe with a regen and an aoe without a regen they can use while it doesn't need to be reapplied compared to one aoe with shield that we don't have an alternate option for. The whm single target regen stacks with the aoe one, our single target shield does not stack with the aoe one. How is this comparable?

Shields are very good yes, they do negate damage and when too strong trivialize mechanics, no denying. But not having the option of direct heal to fall back on makes a shield fall flat when it's popped and you didn't get any burst up under the shield protection.

If 2 different WHM cast regen and they stack, 2 different scholars' shields should stack also.

I think SCH is alright as it is, but I've just hit 50 and I've yet to get my WHM up to compare and contrast the two.

Things I could see an improvement on with AOE healing:
- Succour's shield stacking with another SCH's Succour;
- Eos' AI utilising Whispering Dawn more intelligently (eg. casting it only if 4> party members are at <70% health);
- Whispering Dawn's area of effect doubled;
- Eos' trigger range for Embrace increased to match the maximum distance that the SCH might cast Physick, or the ability to mark a target for her to follow.

I'd like a small Regen myself tbh. SCH was toted as the 'Heal over time' option, at the moment you just spam Physick as its cheaper.

Apart from that minor point, I'm enjoying my SCH alot. I only use Eos for specific fights and keep Selene out most of the time so the DPS can have Haste.

SCH healing is lacking, after trying titan on SCH once you get to the point where titan does 5 ground pounds SCH cant do a damn thing but watch the party wipe so you have to have whm's there Even the single target spell is lacking can hardly main heal the tank when he is taking 3k tp moves back to back. . Their AoE healing is shit anyone who think otherwise is crazy and so is their single target on fights that matter.

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Originally Posted by Keres

The flamewars in this thread make me sad. Aren't we healers all on the same team?

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NEVAH!
WHMs should know their place! they are beneath us Scholars, master race.
We are too powerful that even SE feared us and limited us with stupid mechanics and bad A.I. ...

So i read all of this a thought maybe i shouldn't go scholar. I still went scholar and found out some of the QQ is false. Scholar might need a buff but very small. Maybe some people are trying to play whm with a scholar which is wrong. Some never counted the heals from the pet .You have damage migration with heal .You should be planning ahead .So far with the pet i cant find a reason for me to control it does fine. Cant talk about endgame but for now i have no problems healing with scholar in a group.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

Wat. Stoneskin gives an average, 5100hp~ tank a 950~ shield at a 3s cast time. My average Adlo with Darklight/Ifirt heals for around 600 on a 2s casttime, so 600 healing and a 600 shield. Erm.

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now cast succor and hit the tank the shittier shield is now active... where as if you have 2 whms in a group all their spells stack... i dont currently see SCH in endgame til SE irons the class out

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Originally Posted by Valiant

now cast succor and hit the tank the shittier shield is now active... where as if you have 2 whms in a group all their spells stack... i dont currently see SCH in endgame til SE irons the class out

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Try playing a Scholar maybe? Shittiers shields don't overwrite stronger ones. Hit a tank with succor and it does nothing if he has a big shield.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

now cast succor and hit the tank the shittier shield is now active... where as if you have 2 whms in a group all their spells stack... i dont currently see SCH in endgame til SE irons the class out

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Why are you casting Succor on the tank?

I feel like SE did this on purpose. Imagine if SCH's heals stacked. 2 SCH with macros to force-cast Embrace on the tank would let them keep everyone else in the party running 4 shields, 2 Succor and 2 Adlo. That's essentially a 900 potency shield with little fear of running out of MP. It would trivialize every encounter.

SCH suffers from two things: redundancy with 2 in a group and Faerie heals not scaling with SCH gear. Aside from that, a properly played SCH (keeping your fairy placed in the middle of the fight, force-casting Embrace, keeping Shadow Flare up, etc) will beat a WHM in everything but an AOE heal race.

Only problem I have with scholar is that my pet just spams all their cooldowns non-stop. I've tried putting on steady or whatever but as soon as I use 1 ability they use the rest of their abilities within the same global (so I can't put back on steady before they use the rest of the abilities). It's super annoying and definitely seems like a bug since it kicks the pet out of steady right when you use any of their abilities. Can't put pet abilities in macros either...that's a huge bummer as I wanted to put all 4 of the pet abilities for both of them on 4 buttons rather than 8 seperate ones.

Also I don't get how controlling what your fairy heals with embrace is useful at all, mine already automatically heals whatever I would be telling it to heal anyways.

Pretty much all my complaints/suggestions for Scholar thus far;

• Pet spamming actions (should only spam the first Lv.1 ability, Embrace in our case).
• Pet actions taking up too much space when not using the Pet Action Bar (which is borked on controllers). You can only have 1 pet out at a time, they all have the exact same ability set up, all their abilities should be shared. If I set Embrace for Eos, it should be the same Embrace for Selene should I summon her, I shouldn't need to set both versions of the same thing...
• Summon ability icons, and the party list icon, do not change from Carbuncle when equipping Scholar (or Summoner).
• Intelligence trait on Scholar is almost completely worthless with Cleric Stance. Either swap it to Mind with the Job change (which may well be the case, but I want to see it swapped, I guess), or give Arcanist a middle ground with Enhanced Piety instead of Intelligence.
• Leeches is a pathetic excuse for a Job Ability. It's worse than Esuna, a Lv.18 ability, and is in no way unique to Scholar at all (minus the casting animation). Adloquium puts a barrier on your target after healing them, Leeches should do the same. A barrier that protects from a status effect, that is. I'm aware there are other Job Abilities in the game which are fairly lackluster, but those should really be changed too.
• Differentiate the fairies more... When I first saw information about Scholar I was anticipating switching fairy the same way you switched books in XIs Scholar... First phase of Ifrit DPS is fairly important (get those fetters down), throw out Selene and Fey Glow/Light. Then Ifrit readies Hellfire, swap to Eos and use Fey Covenant to mitigate damage and Fey Illumination to quickly heal up after. Call me crazy, but I think it would have been nice if one of the fairies has Esuna (and Silent Dawn is idiotically worthless, plus previous point on Leeches). That frees up Leeches for another ability. What ability? <insert name>: Switches your current fairy with her sister (are they sisters?). Eos to Selene, Selene to Eos. That doesn't really differentiate their abilities all that much, of course, just makes Selene all that more overpowered I guess... Well, I'm not on the developers pay roll, so whatever...

I don't really think there is anything too broken in that list? Swapping Silent Dawn with Leeches would actually mean Scholar doesn't have to wait until bleedin' level 40 for an Esuna... It'd be 3 levels earlier than Conjurer, but you need to be level 30 to even unlock the fairy anyway, and with four man parties with Scholar filling the Conjurer/White Mage spot at that point in the game anyway, does it really even matter?

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

Why are you casting Succor on the tank?

I feel like SE did this on purpose. Imagine if SCH's heals stacked. 2 SCH with macros to force-cast Embrace on the tank would let them keep everyone else in the party running 4 shields, 2 Succor and 2 Adlo. That's essentially a 900 potency shield with little fear of running out of MP. It would trivialize every encounter.

SCH suffers from two things: redundancy with 2 in a group and Faerie heals not scaling with SCH gear. Aside from that, a properly played SCH (keeping your fairy placed in the middle of the fight, force-casting Embrace, keeping Shadow Flare up, etc) will beat a WHM in everything but an AOE heal race.

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47 sch and 50 whm... i only see whm as viable endgame.. you talk about a 600 shield... try 4 regen effects on one person.. 2 medica II's and 2 regens... sorry thats alot better than one 600 hp shield (would be better if it did stack).. and why cast SF? You should have a BLM sleeping adds (or leave it to a SMN) especially with a paladin tank... (since their aoe abilities suck and you will end up with unnecessary enmity)

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Originally Posted by Burstwolf

I still went scholar and found out some of the QQ is false. Scholar might need a buff but very small. Maybe some people are trying to play whm with a scholar which is wrong. Some never counted the heals from the pet .You have damage migration with heal .You should be planning ahead .So far with the pet i cant find a reason for me to control it does fine.

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Whoa there Tonto. I'm glad to see your entry level experiences at 30 can speak for 99% of the issues facing the job...:rolleyes:. The Dungeons up to level 35 could probably be healed by a black mage spamming Physick. You on the other hand can't attest to the effectiveness of Succor/Leeches because not only do you not have them, you aren't even doing content that would require them (or even remote control over the fairy).

Most of the issues being brought up here are in regards to our diminishing performance as encounter difficulty scales upwards.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

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Medica II's HP Regen is 100 and Regen's is 150 per GCD. So that's 250 points of healing per GCD compared to a 300 potency (900 on Crit) shield per GCD. Discounting the 3~s cast time on Medica II, using Adlo is significantly superior to Cure spamming with Regens up. This is discounting the Faerie and the fact that a WHM can easily go OOM doing this, while a SCH can do it forever. Keep in mind as well that lots of that Regen can end up overhealing, something that's much less likely with a shield (when a SCH crit's an Aldo, she can use the bigger shield as a cushion to do other stuff with the GCD. If a regen crits on an overheal, it's wasted).

Shadow Flare is a guaranteed slow with a 30s duration. I'm not sure why you're talking about sleeping adds, since trash pulls don't matter in this game (half the endgame content puts you in an arena with the boss right off the bat).

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

Medica II's HP Regen is 100 and Regen's is 150 per GCD. So that's 250 points of healing per GCD compared to a 300 potency (900 on Crit) shield per GCD. Discounting the 3~s cast time on Medica II, using Adlo is significantly superior to Cure spamming with Regens up. This is discounting the Faerie and the fact that a WHM can easily go OOM doing this, while a SCH can do it forever.

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Stop reading the spells and try it out... you heal more than the shield prevents... and i have tried it with 2 whms... both regen effects of both whms STACK.. sorry but thats alot better in a pinch than 1 600 shield or only a chance of that being better... and any whm worth their salt knows how to properly manipulate their mana pools

As a Scholar i struggled to main heal the first boss in Aurum Vale until i learned the key to main healing that fight. Adloquiem. It will push your mp to the limit, but with it and aetherflow and energy drain you can keep everyone's hp up. Use the hp shield to absorb the poison damage of your fellow players. Forget your fairy she's dead weight in that fight.

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Originally Posted by Lebeau

Whoa there Tonto. I'm glad to see your entry level experiences at 30 can speak for 99% of the issues facing the job...:rolleyes:. The Dungeons up to level 35 could probably be healed by a black mage spamming Physick. You on the other hand can't attest to the effectiveness of Succor/Leeches because not only do you not have them, you aren't even doing content that would require them (or even remote control over the fairy).

Most of the issues being brought up here are in regards to our diminishing performance as encounter difficulty scales upwards.

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WHO there elitist..Maybe you missed the part where i said i couldn't account for that:rolleyes:Didnt see 99 issues with class posted here. Also stated i read everyones comments and the thing i could see i had no problem with.Reading comprehension goes a long way..Try to keep your mind open just becasue you lvl your character doesn't make you the know all.

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Originally Posted by Burstwolf

WHO there elitist..Maybe you missed the part where i said i couldn't account for that:rolleyes:Didnt see 99 issues with class posted here. Also stated i read everyones comments and the thing i could see i had no problem with.Reading comprehension goes a long way..Try to keep your mind open just becasue you lvl your character doesn't make you the know all.

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I'm far from an elitist. My "level" allows me to speak from a point of experience.

When a level 50 ACN says that they are suffering from throughput issues, it's because they're doing level appropriate content that highlights this as a massive weakness for the job. Writing other players' concerns off as false "QQ", saying "Scholar might need a buff but very small", or claiming that the fairy doesn't need to be controlled completely undermines the people who are actively looking to better our class.

I haven't run into any actual throughput issues, just quality of life issues. Toting your level over someone doesn't prove that you know anything.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

now cast succor and hit the tank the shittier shield is now active... where as if you have 2 whms in a group all their spells stack... i dont currently see SCH in endgame til SE irons the class out

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Weaker shields do not overwrite stronger shields. And yes, SCH shields should probably have some mechanics so that having multiple SCHs play better together, although I'm not sure what precisely. Although I can understand from a developers standpoint who is trying to create challenging boss mechanics why they don't stack shields.

Having a single SCH in a party is never a bad thing though. It's fine for right now.

Most of my successes in post-50 content is with 2 scholars...so I'm not sure you are having issues with. While WHM have nice spikes, their sustain blows and if the battle is protracted your party will look to the scholar to pick up the slack.

We definitely do not need a heal buff. Our mp regen and sustain is borderline overpowered as it is, and if we were pumping out WHM level heals with the same MP regen, shields, instant cast heals, and fairy, we'd just be broken. Learn to make better use of your shielding abilities and manage MP and aetherflow stacks so you aren't wasting them on energy drain and can use them for more powerful abilities like Sacred Soil and Lustrate.

I've healed up to Garuda HM and AK and have never felt that throughput was an issue, even carrying some pretty bad groups. If there have been situations where I just can't keep up with the healing, it has always been because of a failure to handle fight mechanics either on my part or somebody else's (ie. it was a situation that could have been avoided through better play). But if everyone is on the ball, I can handle the healing pretty easily. It takes pretty big screwups to get into a situation where SCH heals just can't keep up except on a few fights that have less room for error.

The only thing I really want on Scholar is better pet management. The AI needs to either be way better than it is now, or I need to be able to turn it off altogether and micromanage the fairy exactly how I want. That means being able to use pet abilities in macros as well as issue pet commands while I'm in the middle of casting my own spells. The way it is now, the AI is just too flaky (especially for the longer cool down spells and buffs) and issuing orders manually is very inconvenient.

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Originally Posted by Lebeau

My "level" allows me to speak from a point of experience.

When a level 50 ACN says that they are suffering from throughput issues, Writing other players' concerns off as false "QQ", saying "Scholar might need a buff but very small".

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Your speaking as a ELITIST.Have you read the other treads scholar with 50 who also sts it doesnt need a big buff. Let me correct you with the words your putting in my mouth.1) SOME of the QQ ,class heals are split between shield and pet so comparing it to a whm is wrong.2)AS Of NOW I DON'T see the need to FULLY control as other 50 sts it just needs better AI.

3)lvl difference of 1 fairy spell what changes Ai at 50?4)I cant account for endgame(SAID IT3xNOW MR ELITE) but i can account for people who try to break a door down before using the knob.5)Not everybody plays a class the same6)I stated my OPINION from what i played and read I dont speak for the community and nether do you(undermine:rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Valiant

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I'm still not sure why you're comparing 2 WHM's to the shield of one SCH. A SCH using Adlo + faerie will heal more on a single target (and prevent a good chunk of damage) than a WHM spamming Cure with both Regen's up, and the WHM will run out of mp long before the SCH does. This is from post-50 gameplay and just simple reading of the potency of the heals/effects. If you cast both Regens on a tank and the boss gets stunned/misses, those Regen ticks are wasted. As long as the tank gets hit again in 30 seconds, Adlo gets its full potency.

You're right that, as it stand, 2 SCH's can be redundant in pugs. But 2 coordinated SCHs who do things like time Fey Illumination so it never overlaps and make sure they have separate Adlo priorities so shields never go to waste will do much better than 2 coordinated WHM's.