[Dev 1011] Failing Guildleves Intentionally?

Right on here, if I could pick my leves, and they all offered similar SP, but the rewards changed randomly, I would be more likely to pick different leves. Perfect example: Horn and the Hand leves are mostly terrible everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Word up kilta foghlahdha! Hook us up with a link!

Better yet, let's get an official dev comment in this thread or the other thread in the guildleve section of the forum about it!

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i agree. :) Aion ppl tried to say similar stuff.

I also don't want this to be an exploit SE realizes it is and ppl get banned for doing it. not like it didn't happen b4....

All you can do is 8 leves every 36hours , in top of it is completely random what you get so there is no really a chance to get a leve link party going wich is , btw . one of the very few activities you can do with a party efficiently right now.So yea failing the leves promotes PARTY PLAY.

And you want to call one of the very few reasons to party everyday cheating because SE can not think ahead of what people going or not going to do ?
get out of here.better take away the option to party at all .

meh i wouldn't mind picking either... more so if the reset was removed on the sp reward but the gil/item rewards were on a reset. pretty much making them fov pages. with lore. (sorta) I don't mind grinding mobs but having an objective or reason to grind mobs (minus leveling) helps make it fun for me. I have an objective that I need to complete. Kinda help wuth my ADD.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

All you can do is 8 leves every 36hours , in top of it is completely random what you get so there is no really a chance to get a leve link party going wich is , btw . one of the very few activities you can do with a party efficiently right now.So yea failing the leves promotes PARTY PLAY.

And you want to call one of the very few reasons to party everyday cheating because SE can not think ahead of what people going or not going to do ?
get out of here.better take away the option to party at all .

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you never did fov pages in ffxi did you... that also promoted party play also. even better lower level party play.
the way levequest that was to promote party play is you can do levequests not stop you just join ppl doing their leves. just ppl complained about not getting epic rewards.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

you never did fov pages in ffxi did you... that also promoted party play also. even better lower level party play.
the way levequest that was to promote party play is you can do levequests not stop you just join ppl doing their leves. just ppl complained about not getting epic rewards.

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please just stop it with the fov thin , this is ffxiv and guild leves we talking about , stay on topic . For real i wish you would start playing the game already so you had a clue wth your talking bout.1.2k posts about a game you never played.

-I know a lot of toronto i can be your guide there!.
-OK! how many times you been there !
-NEVER.
-ok./walks away slowly.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

please just stop it with the fov thin , this is ffxiv and guild leves we talking about , stay on topic . For real i wish you would start playing the game already so you had a clue wth your talking bout.1.2k posts about a game you never played.

-I know a lot of toronto i can be your guide there!.
-OK! how many times you been there !
-NEVER.
-ok./walks away slowly.

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so i want levequest more set up like fov pages.. they are techi the same thing. you get a kill quest to kill mobs you get gil and sp reward wuth a item bonus.

fov pages was a page to kill mobs and you get exp gil and tabs as a reward. SE took out the limitation on doing 1 page an hour just limited gil and tabs for an hour. same thing can be done with levequests. Oh and tabs are replaces with items in the levequests.
but the core is the same.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

so i want levequest more set up like fov pages.. they are techi the same thing. you get a kill quest to kill mobs you get gil and sp reward wuth a item bonus.

fov pages was a page to kill mobs and you get exp gil and tabs as a reward. SE took out the limitation on doing 1 page an hour just limited gil and tabs for an hour. same thing can be done with levequests. Oh and tabs are replaces with items in the levequests.
but the core is the same.

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I really want to be polite and nice , but sometimes a please shut up , is due.
You got no idea how guildleves work , there are nothing like FoV, so if you could stop arguing that you do know about it would be really gentle of you.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

I really want to be polite and nice , but sometimes a please shut up , is due.

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Zkieve, sometimes you gotta stop trying.. many people have tried and it never succeed.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Zkieve, sometimes you gotta stop trying.. many people have tried and it never succeed.

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i should follow your advice , thanks!.

It's nothing.... just because that leve is a good leve and ppl want to do it again when the reset time come

they have to sacrifice the leve reward in exchange to keep the leve they want

I think it's fair

care to explain how a FOV page is different the a levequest?

1 Fields of valore page: you go to the book and pick 1 of 5 pages. Each page tell you what mobs to kill. You kill said mobs and you get an exp reward a gil reward and 10% are tabs.

2 Levequests: you go to the counter you pick 8 guildleves you choose to read what it is about, go to the camp you need to activate a guildleve and kill each mob you need to (which appears in a semi instance) you kill them all get sp gil and a possible item. (unless it isn't you leve)

simple version

1 fov page: click pafe till x mob or xy mob or xyz mob rewarded exp gil tabs

2 levequest: get guildleve activate it kill x mob, xy mob, xyz mob. rewarded sp, gil item (maybe)

so again how are they different? just because a levequests has a quest conntected to it?

a good explination would help if you feel I don;t understand. How about instead of insulting me or shutting me up you correct my error.

well for one thing you don't get an sp/xp reward for completing a leve, all your sp/xp is rewarded for killing the mobs in a leave. You also get % bonuses for party members and you can link the same leve for even higher bonus. on top of that you can use guardians aspect to have an even higher bonus. Then you have 36 hour reset timers, which what was fov timer? couple of hours?

A lot of people fail leves on purpose and the game shouldn't be played this way.
This is how my LS does leves.. Grab 3 leves for one camp then wait for the next reset and grab more leves for that camp for more links (each person could have up to 4-6 leves). I've gained up to 65k or more SP by doing this

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Originally Posted by Krausus

well for one thing you don't get an sp/xp reward for completing a leve, all your sp/xp is rewarded for killing the mobs in a leave. You also get % bonuses for party members and you can link the same leve for even higher bonus. on top of that you can use guardians aspect to have an even higher bonus. Then you have 36 hour reset timers, which what was fov timer? couple of hours?

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they took out the fov reset timer. I wasn't really talking about rewards but the basic outline of what you do.

GF is pretty much like the exp ring from the sound of it. Butr thank you for the correct on what happens when you complete a leve. But still the basic core is the same. so at the core they are the same. you get a page or guildleve and kill the mobs you need to. Just the levequest improves this by having mobs appeared taged for u or group.

what gets me is why ppl only do their 8 when they could be joing other and essensially do non stop levequests. instead of doing their 8 and logging off.

There are some slight similarities but guildleves are different in one major aspect. You can't intentionally fail FOV pages to receive greater exp/sp rewards.

If they add a system where you get most or all of the sp at the end of the leve and change it so you don't fail if you dc that would be a possible solution. That is the core of Alexia idea earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

There are some slight similarities but guildleves are different in one major aspect. You can't intentionally fail FOV pages to receive greater exp/sp rewards.

If they add a system where you get most or all of the sp at the end of the leve and change it so you don't fail if you dc that would be a possible solution. That is the core of Alexia idea earlier in the thread.

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i would take that over gil or item rewards tbh and have them be nin stop. no bs timer. I liked FOV pages alot. It made partying funner as ppl actually talked when running back to get pages. ppl talked about what pages to do etc. :) It also makes leveling have a purpose. You don't just go and "mindlessly" pick a group of mobs to kill over and over just because you deam it so. I felt bad for needlessly killing manies. :( those are super cute. I even did the mandy quest for the flower top mandies to gimi a nice regen. the effects was epicly cute.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

they took out the fov reset timer. I wasn't really talking about rewards but the basic outline of what you do.

GF is pretty much like the exp ring from the sound of it. Butr thank you for the correct on what happens when you complete a leve. But still the basic core is the same. so at the core they are the same. you get a page or guildleve and kill the mobs you need to. Just the levequest improves this by having mobs appeared taged for u or group.

what gets me is why ppl only do their 8 when they could be joing other and essensially do non stop levequests. instead of doing their 8 and logging off.

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well there are a couple of reasons, first not bringing leves to the party unless you are in a LS group is usually frowned upon, second without links without aspect (which you tend to save for the good leves with links since it is limited) you might as well just be grinding because the SP is essentially the same. I know it is probably difficult to understand without actually doing it but once you start playing (assuming nothing changes by then) then you will be able to see why.

if you are a hardcore SPer then you would essentially do all the good leves (all 3 of them) linked up with 3 friends twice in a row because you will have 4 other people in the party with the same leves ready to link theirs and then you would move onto grinding raptors.

that's why i said they should make all leves available each reset and the sp should be adjusted to get them all around the same sp. grouping is done to get maximum efficiency while in group. if you do it making people complete the leves to get the rewards you will see smaller groups and more people going solo. you then would run your leves solo while others do theirs then group to go grind for max sp an hour. i know for example i am not going to run in a group of 8 people and run 64 leves every reset.

make the leves available, but still allow you to only choose the 8 you want. that would allow a group to work together and rotate which leves you run each time and not be worried about failing a leve. i do not want to get stuck with a bunch of leves such as "where's the meat" reset after reset.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that's why i said they should make all leves available each reset and the sp should be adjusted to get them all around the same sp. grouping is done to get maximum efficiency while in group. if you do it making people complete the leves to get the rewards you will see smaller groups and more people going solo. you then would run your leves solo while others do theirs then group to go grind for max sp an hour. i know for example i am not going to run in a group of 8 people and run 64 leves every reset.

make the leves available, but still allow you to only choose the 8 you want. that would allow a group to work together and rotate which leves you run each time and not be worried about failing a leve. i do not want to get stuck with a bunch of leves such as "where's the meat" reset after reset.

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totally agree

1 then ppl play wrong and slowly. sorry but thats kinda silly they would rather do 8 only then grouping up with other ppl letting them pick a harder setting. In away your helping them and are rewarded for it.
2 I'm not. I play to have fun

But i can see why ppl "fear the leecher" << if you get the joke :P
thet feel if you don;t have levequests your just leeching on theirs. Even though that isn't the case. Man ppl are silly in this game. Personally id be all for forming a party no matter if ppl had leves or not. I just play for fun

I think persinally ppl take this game to seruiusly and its aiding its failur. No one is truely using taking full advantage of the system. And exploiting it in a sence.
Least that is what it seems like to me based on what was said. :)

if this is wrong correct it. I'm a very smart person and quicky understand ppl alot of the time.

i wish they remove the reset completely and have ppl do levequests non stop and set it up to be more like fov pages just with the quest attached. and get rewarded a nice sp vs gil and items. well maybe a lil gil.

I also wouldn't mind a counter at each camp so ppl can just stay in the camps vs going into town (saves anima i would assume)

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

1 then ppl play wrong and slowly. sorry but thats kinda silly they would rather do 8 only then grouping up with other ppl letting them pick a harder setting. In away your helping them and are rewarded for it.
2 I'm not. I play to have fun

But i can see why ppl "fear the leecher" << if you get the joke :P
thet feel if you don;t have levequests your just leeching on theirs. Even though that isn't the case. Man ppl are silly in this game. Personally id be all for forming a party no matter if ppl had leves or not. I just play for fun

I think persinally ppl take this game to seruiusly and its aiding its failur. No one is truely using taking full advantage of the system. And exploiting it in a sence.
Least that is what it seems like to me based on what was said. :)

if this is wrong correct it. I'm a very smart person and quicky understand ppl alot of the time.

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well I think you misunderstand a bit people do group up for the good leves, if you do it right if all 8 people have the same 3 good leves (because from 32 to 50 you are stuck at camp broken water with only 3 good leves) that can essentially last you a good couple of hours, then you choose, do we want to do the shity leves for the same sp we would be getting if we grind raptors with all the extra running involved or should we just go do raptors.

Also I mentioned unless you are in an LS group, which means no one cares if you have leves (at least in my LS) you are more then welcome to come. Outside of this type of group it is polite to also bring leves.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

1 then ppl play wrong and slowly. sorry but thats kinda silly they would rather do 8 only then grouping up with other ppl letting them pick a harder setting. In away your helping them and are rewarded for it.
2 I'm not. I play to have fun

But i can see why ppl "fear the leecher" << if you get the joke :P
thet feel if you don;t have levequests your just leeching on theirs. Even though that isn't the case. Man ppl are silly in this game. Personally id be all for forming a party no matter if ppl had leves or not. I just play for fun

I think persinally ppl take this game to seruiusly and its aiding its failur. No one is truely using taking full advantage of the system. And exploiting it in a sence.
Least that is what it seems like to me based on what was said. :)

if this is wrong correct it. I'm a very smart person and quicky understand ppl alot of the time.

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actually it is the case in the means of leeching. if they do not have leves to contribute and are in your party they are leeching in the fact that the sp goes down the more people are in the party. get a group with 6 people with all having leves and get a group of 15 people with 6 of them having leves and the 15 will be getting less than half the sp per kill.

as far as your #1 some of the leves take 20-30 minutes to complete. let's see 64x30min you have 32 hours of leves in a 36 hour cycle without any breaks or sleep then start the cycle over. that would constantly leave people out and not getting to complete their leves. how is that anymore beneficial than taking 3-4 hours for a group and everyone getting to run their leves? notice i said 64 which is only an 8 person party. max party size is 15 so you figure out how to run 60 hours of leves within a 36 hour time frame then we can talk about playing too slowly.

most of the leves people run over and over are the ones that take the longest to do hence more sp. they do have leves you can go and run and kill 2 mobs and the leve is over. i used "where's the meat" as an example and you kill aldgoats til you get 2 pieces of meat from them. alot of times that leve is 2 mobs 2 kills and maybe 200sp for the entire leve. it takes only 1-2 minutes to complete it.

you could run it all you want to, but compare it to lightsome verdure which is gnats you have to collect 5 pages from them and they drop randomly from the pairs of mobs. each mob gives more sp than the whole other leve and they come in pairs. figure out why people choose to get 500 a kill on at least 10 mobs compared to 2 kills on mobs around 100 sp each.

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1 then ppl play wrong and slowly. sorry but thats kinda silly they would rather do 8 only then grouping up with other ppl letting them pick a harder setting. In away your helping them and are rewarded for it.

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You should really play before making comments like these.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I also don't want this to be an exploit SE realizes it is and ppl get banned for doing it. not like it didn't happen b4....

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They start banning people and they will have nobody to play their game.

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Retrying Levequests

Levequest targets give players many times more EXP and skill points than normal monsters (even if not using guardian aspect). To prevent some players from taking advantage of this system by completing most of a levequest, failing on purpose, and then trying the quest again immediately, we have made it impossible to retry a levequest immediately after failing it. However, this does not mean players are not allowed to retry levequests. By returning and talking to the NPC who issued the quest, players can gain the opportunity to retry the quest objectives.

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SOURCE CLICKY

This is on the Japanese Official Final Fantasy XIV Site and is a report from a prelive event. It took me bloody hours to find that so I hope you are happy now and we can finally put an end to this discussion about this "exploit"

/endthread

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

i wish they remove the reset completely and have ppl do levequests non stop and set it up to be more like fov pages just with the quest attached. and get rewarded a nice sp vs gil and items. well maybe a lil gil.

I also wouldn't mind a counter at each camp so ppl can just stay in the camps vs going into town (saves anima i would assume)

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I guess you still didn't play FFXIV...
without a reset people would just do leves all day for easy SP, the game would be a complete no brainer.
Faction leves would loose value and people would have more guildmarks than they can spend.

How come nobody grinds normally any more? >_> Oh, right....cause guild leves spawn so many monsters.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

How come nobody grinds normally any more? >_> Oh, right....cause guild leves spawn so many monsters.

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There's raptor parties, every so often... >.>

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

levequests were suppose to be a fun activity, not something that the sole reason your doing is for sp. : / you guys like making mmos like work.... can't just have fun, you need to max out the most exp/sp you can per hour going as far as exploiting a fun casual activity.

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I agree with you. At the moment we have little very little content. Everything is SP and that's it. Once SE gets some content in the game these discussions with Guild Leves will go away. As of now theirs grindind DOW/DOL/DOH, GL and NM's.

I better have both fun and SP

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Originally Posted by solracht

Last I checked I don't auto-fail a crafting leve if I logout or DC after activating it. That argument would be valid if you didn't auto-fail for disconnecting during battle leves.

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Last I checked, insulting the community in your signature is inappropriate. Just because you don't like a change doesn't mean you need to insult the players who actually support what the developers have accomplished. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but since you've openly decided to berate the community for supporting their decision to make those changes is insulting. I've reported you, and I hope others do as well. Players like yourself aren't making this game better. The .01% of the community you represent doesn't account for the others who actually like the direction the development team has taken thus far, and look forward to upcoming changes.

Sorry to the rest of you folks for de-railing the thread a bit. I just can't stand for people who think they "represent all of us" by berating others. I have an opinion, but I'm not calling someone a "noob" or a "bad" over it. If I had an opinion, I'd stick a [dev] tag like 99% of the community has done and expressed it with intelligence rather than spite. To the players that agree with the OP's views, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there is a civil way to post your views. Putting up a trolling billboard is not the right way to do it.

For those of you who are like "wha?" I'm commenting on his signature, which unfortunately doesn't link to a quote.

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Originally Posted by naero

There's raptor parties, every so often... >.>

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Raptors....like..when everyone is already at the cap anyhow. >_> So many good grinding spots that are never populated.

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Originally Posted by SeleneSinclair

Last I checked, insulting the community in your signature is inappropriate. Just because you don't like a change doesn't mean you need to insult the players who actually support what the developers have accomplished. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but since you've openly decided to berate the community for supporting their decision to make those changes is insulting. I've reported you, and I hope others do as well. Players like yourself aren't making this game better. The .01% of the community you represent doesn't account for the others who actually like the direction the development team has taken thus far, and look forward to upcoming changes.

Sorry to the rest of you folks for de-railing the thread a bit. I just can't stand for people who think they "represent all of us" by berating others. I have an opinion, but I'm not calling someone a "noob" or a "bad" over it. If I had an opinion, I'd stick a [dev] tag like 99% of the community has done and expressed it with intelligence rather than spite. To the players that agree with the OP's views, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there is a civil way to post your views. Putting up a trolling billboard is not the right way to do it.

For those of you who are like "wha?" I'm commenting on his signature, which unfortunately doesn't link to a quote.

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http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/u...m_detector.jpg

If it makes you feel better, you're the third person who thought it was serious.

EDIT: Made it more obvious, just for you. Wouldn't want all that wind going to waste.

Alexia - Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to find that post.

Is it still at all possible to get an SE community team member to comment here pretty please? I would really like a reply from the dev team if at all possible.

maybe you have to put this thread in japanese forum if you want the dev reply

SE community team just posted into the "show everyone what you look like thread'

epic fail :X

Here's my problem. I like to finish leves when I do them. I like to gain the faction points, guild marks, etc. When I want to do leves, people always want the good ones to link, and then they want to fail them. This leads to two negatives against me: 1) I'm holding up the group while I solo the last mob, and 2) if I don't have one of the preferred leves, I'm usually told to go last, and most members, if not all leave after the good ones are done.

Now, these negatives are usually forgiven if I run leves with my Linkshells, though many players still leave early. A majority of players participate in static leve-fail parties these days, which means I'm typically left to solo them. I could find a pick up group to do them, but that's another issue altogether. We find linkshells for a reason, don't we?

I feel the problem lies in that leves are not balanced. There would be no need to adjust when SP was rewarded, and therefore have no further impact against players who DC while mid-leve, if they would simply even out the SP gained by all leves (for a given rank.) Dunesfolk should net the same SP as running Hiding Under Beds, for example. If you gained the same amount of SP in each leve, this wouldn't be nearly as big an issue as it is right now. People would still want to link, but with more varieties of leves in play, the odds of finding a match are greater.

Of course, leves with fewer mob counts would be more efficient SP/hour, and would therefore be another incentive for leve-failing. So balancing leves should also include balancing mob strength to compensate. If I only have to kill 5 Pieste to finish the leve, make the fights take longer, so running a 3-star Dunefolk would take a party of 4 about the same amount of time to complete as a 3-star Hiding Under Beds. We already have a difficulty selection, so finding a target time of completion can be handled with that, while providing more challenge (and therefore SP) if players so choose. Easier said than done, I know, and there are bigger fish to fry right now, but it's still something I hope the Dev team is considering as a possible solution to this epidemic.

Leves are supposed to be the answer for casual players, yet with the current trend of leve-failing, it's not making my casual experience any more enjoyable.