Additional Jobs for the future, a graphic, need help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirito

I don't think we should have a sub class B because if you leveled MAR to 50 because of WAR then you automatically get a lvl 50 Berserker or whatever second class there would be.

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You still would need to go through the quests to get the Berserker skills though. So sure, you could have the level 50 stats, but you'll need quests to get the skills.

I really don't think it would be that different from now (or in 1.0, at least) where you could change to a 50 class while doing your early quests for a job class other than your first.

As for suggestions:

Instead of Musketeer having Corsair and Gunner, maybe Corsair and Machinist?
Puppet Master would be better suited to Shepard than Puglist, IMO.
Replace Puppet Master on PUG with Dancer instead.

Other than those, I think the list looks good and actually follows my way of thinking in how classes/jobs should be handled in 14. Roughly 10 "Base Classes" with each class having 2 job classes.

I don't think mixing a DoL and a DoW class is that good. I'd rather have a "weaker" Beastmaster as starting class. Here's my attempt :D

Animal Trainer

• Gets a free pet, depending on starting location

(Limsa Lominsa\La Noscea -> Rat
U'Dah\Thanalan -> Marmot
Gridania\The Black Shroud -> Ladybug
Any other region -> one of the three will be chosen randomly)

• Can get all three pets by completing quests in the cities.
• Will get a Wolf at level ~40
• (and possibly more animals in between)
• Weapon: Whip
  
  http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...6081401426.jpg

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The Animal trainer can either go Beastmaster or Puppetmaster once he finishes the level 30 Job Quests.

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The Beastmaster

• would be able to control all the animals the Animal Trainer can control.
• BST would additionally be able to control mobs that would be more "beast" like.

(Coblyn, Aurelia, Tigers, Drakes, possibly even Ogres?)

• Weapon: Whip
  
  http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files...7/DiaoChan.jpg

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The Puppetmaster

• Relies on a Puppet and can't control animals.
• Can get addons for the puppet (Elemental Damage, Poison, etc)
• Strong visual Puppet modifications
• Weapon: Special Whips (I thought "Antennas" might work in the whip category, so basically a wooden/metal/leather stick with nothing much to it since the puppet is the main weapon. Designed much like the PSICOM Huntress' weapon from FFXIII)
  http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...M_Huntress.png

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Shepherds should just be like Botanists, Miners and Fishers. No 2nd jobs (yet).

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So to break it down..


----------> Dancer
Pugilist ->
----------> Monk

-----------------> Beastmaster
Animal Trainer ->
-----------------> Puppetmaster


Shepherd -x

I hope some of you might agree :)
If you disagree feel free to change it to whatever you like. Looking forward to your feedback :)

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight

Nobody is suggesting Dark Knight should weild a Scythe, Dark Knights were weilding 1 handed swords long before XI came out. Though i admit Doc Mog should change the Dark Knight picture connected to Gladiator since its no longer connected to Marauder lol.

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But seriously? You would ditch a Scythe DRK for a sword DRK? Come on now... Scythes are much cooler weapons for a "Dark Knight"..

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Originally Posted by Altena

But seriously? You would ditch a Scythe DRK for a sword DRK? Come on now... Scythes are much cooler weapons for a "Dark Knight"..

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I remember a discussion over how scythes are only used as weapons in fiction for the looks and are actually really hard (to the point of being not worth it) to use in combat. Sure, you had silliness like the deathscythe in gundam wing, not to mention all those "I missed, but I'll get you in 15 seconds when i swing again!" jokes, but I think it'd be better to stick to G.Sword.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I remember a discussion over how scythes are only used as weapons in fiction for the looks and are actually really hard (to the point of being not worth it) to use in combat. Sure, you had silliness like the deathscythe in gundam wing, not to mention all those "I missed, but I'll get you in 15 seconds when i swing again!" jokes, but I think it'd be better to stick to G.Sword.

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Yes, its a very awkward weapon that has a lof of inefficent weight and space. You'd do better just using a spear. They look scary though :P

Also in iconic FF style, Dark Knights use swords one and two handed.

Arguments off how useless the class system itself is aside.

I hope that XIV treads new ground with jobs and doesn't stick to familliar things too much. I'd like to see some of the less known jobs get a bit of a spotlight alongside the standards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

#5 Revision:
Shepherd class (DoL) added
Beastmaster Job moved to Shepherd
Scholar job moved to Arcanist Class
Necromancer takes its place as a Job from Thaum
Samurai Job moved to Lancer Class.
Removed Parivir for now.

Feedback appreciated,

I will update the image as well.

Unfinished business:

Thoughts on SAM from LNC? (SAM has used Lances in past FF titles was my thinking)

What do you think of the Green mage, Scholar, Red mage and Blue mage placement?

I will be making a few more graphics after this one.

• 1 class to 1 job image.
• 3 tier (perhaps having to combine multiple jobs to get there) graphic.

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I'm going off revision 5 here, but here are a couple of thoughts on the list.

-DRK and Berserker work good where they are now.

-Fencer or freelancer both work fine for BLU and RDM.

-SAM works fine branched off of Lancer (G.Ktn are the most symbolistic weapons Samurai use but they were renowned for spear and bow proficiency as well).

-I'd consider putting Scholar back to THM and have it focus mainly on Elemental DoT's and getting rid of Necromancer.

-In turn fill in the extra spot on Archanist's tree with an Elementalist which summon elementals to fight for you.

-In place of Gunner try a Cannoner who instead of fast flying bullets utilize small cannons that deal AoE damage, or as an alternative Sniper which use rifles to debuff opponents from afar.

-Instead of Shepard how about Tamer, basically an infant Beastmaster only able to lull small docile creatures while Beastmasters have the ability to tame bigger and aggressive monsters to attack enemies and unlock their true fighting abilities, the 2nd advanced job could be Hunter/Druid who instead of using your companions to attack they use their companions to buff, protect (think cover), or heal party members.

What do you think?

I think scholar would fit better with Arcanist, since they both use tomes?

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

-Fencer or freelancer both work fine for BLU and RDM.

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I'm not quite sure where the connection between fencer and blue mage comes from. RDM has been pretty much trolled with the fencing thing in XI, while BLU has had two distinct incarnations between focused caster of monster magic (notably FFVI) and the cheap attempt to quiet the RDM melee camp (FFXI).

Granted, Strago is how Blue Mages were introduced to me, so his motif makes a lot more sense to me than the other incarnations.

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

-----------------> Beastmaster
Animal Trainer ->
-----------------> Puppetmaster

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Instead of Puppetmaster I'd like to see Animist.

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...le-animist.jpg

They even have whips. (Actually they use instruments)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altena

But seriously? You would ditch a Scythe DRK for a sword DRK? Come on now... Scythes are much cooler weapons for a "Dark Knight"..

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Well maybe when your a floating Tarutaru spinning around in midair =P but otherwise no not really Scythes are too big and clunky for any kind of Knight. Mostly i would like to see a more darkness abilities/spells centric Dark Knight rather than the weaponskill centric one we got in XI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Well maybe when your a floating Tarutaru spinning around in midair =P but otherwise no not really Scythes are too big and clunky for any kind of Knight. Mostly i would like to see a more darkness abilities/spells centric Dark Knight rather than the weaponskill centric one we got in XI.

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https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...y-Gh45P2yrSh4E
This fellow is no doubt the reason a certain DRK uses a scythe.
Scythes were in fact adapted for use on the historcal battlefield they were used primarily by footsoldiers for attacking mounted troops.
Here is a crappy picture of one variation on this idea:http://listverse.com/wp-content/uplo...pon_scythe.jpg

Why does everyone think Fencer is going to be added as a class in the future? Honestly, Fencer was probably originally intended to be for parry skill much like how Sentinel was for shield when the game was released.

YouTube | Giant Sickle Scythe

He knows how to use it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

YouTube | Giant Sickle Scythe

He knows how to use it.

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Wow those imaginary enemies must be terrified!

"show that wheat what your fuckin made of"

Still, you could probably develop a decent fighting style out of this weapon (not from the video). Maybe not with the Scythe as it is commonly known but an adaption to it. The problem I think of is that it was a farmer tool, they were probably self made and/or of poor quality most of the time. I could imagine that a balanced, light scythe could be a deadly weapon, just like a spear, halberd, naginata.

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps537cefba.png
(Poorly drawn by me ;P)
The actual Sickle could be used for blocking as well. Could be inverted.

I could be horribly wrong though. Swords and spears are probably still way more effective

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raheem

Why does everyone think Fencer is going to be added as a class in the future? Honestly, Fencer was probably originally intended to be for parry skill much like how Sentinel was for shield when the game was released.

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Probably because it is the class that makes the most sense to attach RDM to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

"show that wheat what your fuckin made of"

Still, you could probably develop a decent fighting style out of this weapon (not from the video). Maybe not with the Scythe as it is commonly known but an adaption to it. The problem I think of is that it was a farmer tool, they were probably self made and/or of poor quality most of the time. I could imagine that a balanced, light scythe could be a deadly weapon, just like a spear, halberd, naginata.

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps537cefba.png
(Poorly drawn by me ;P)
The actual Sickle could be used for blocking as well. Could be inverted.

I could be horribly wrong though. Swords and spears are probably still way more effective

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The big problem with a scythe is that, no matter how cool it is, it's blade is in the wrong side, and even then to actually use it as a weapon in it's normal form would require far too much spinning since it's vastly unbalanced.
What you came up with is closer to a hybrid between a guisarme and a scythe, it could in theory work as it'd have a piercing blade instead of the axe blade, not sure how it'd go, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raheem

Why does everyone think Fencer is going to be added as a class in the future? Honestly, Fencer was probably originally intended to be for parry skill much like how Sentinel was for shield when the game was released.

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Probably because fencer was a 1.0 class used for ixali, the used a shield so I doubt the parry much

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Originally Posted by Thebard

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...y-Gh45P2yrSh4E
This fellow is no doubt the reason a certain DRK uses a scythe.
Scythes were in fact adapted for use on the historcal battlefield they were used primarily by footsoldiers for attacking mounted troops.
Here is a crappy picture of one variation on this idea:http://listverse.com/wp-content/uplo...pon_scythe.jpg

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Yeah looks like a hooked knife on a stick =P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thebard

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...y-Gh45P2yrSh4E
This fellow is no doubt the reason a certain DRK uses a scythe.
Scythes were in fact adapted for use on the historcal battlefield they were used primarily by footsoldiers for attacking mounted troops.
Here is a crappy picture of one variation on this idea:http://listverse.com/wp-content/uplo...pon_scythe.jpg

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A War Scythe? They dont have the distinct crescent shape though (which makes everyone think sycthe).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...osy_i_piki.jpg

Something of a more feasible scythe style (Smaller and unlike a scythe can be swung both directions)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotel
http://oriental-arms.co.il/photos/it...00454/ph-0.jpg
The shape is so you can cut around the shield.


Or Just a shorter scythe (sickle)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_(weapon)
Will have faster movements and blocking/disarming abilities unlike a scythe.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c/c1/Kamas.jpg

You just dont want that crescent curved stuff on a long weapon like that lol - you'd be better off with a bardiche or a halibard if you want to be doing the helicopter.


You can do better with any other weapon then a scythe its really just for looks and psychological impact. (And the Dark Knight is a Knight who uses swords dammit.. >.> lol - which makes sense from GLD but if its MRD then he will be using an axe.. lol *sigh... armory system /facepalm* XD)


I think the job system can have some special rules like using more then one type of weapon - and this could solve it.. its just a confusing mess. It would be easier "imo" if everything was a job, you had basic solo freedom jobs that built advanced party jobs

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The shape is so you can cut around the shield.

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I was thinking this the entire time the whole Scythe convo came up.

Despite it's awkwardness a scythe is almost impossible to block by standard means unlike a spear, axe, or sword. Unless you deflect the blade itself you can't really parry a Scythe and if you try and block the blade with a shield you have a decent chance of it going through the shield if it's made of wood or leaving yourself open because you had to block from another direction besides the front, otherwise a scythe will just go around a shield or your weapon and tear into you.

The other varieties of scythe blades that deviate from the classic farm version of a scythe were probably instituted due to the curvature of the blade which is more effective when cutting through enemies, and even if you can't cut through them the curved blade would still catch your opponent allowing you to more easily throw them off balance or off mounts.

As far as balance goes, a War Scythe would have a weighted pummel much like lances and spears to offset the weapons heavy blade/pike while traditional Farm Scythes probably wouldn't due to their cheapness in nature.

*Note: This isn't all directed at you Shougun it's just comments to the overall convo.

Bleh got carried away. XD

I liked this thread so i'm revamping it out of boredom.

I thought to add what classes should be the 2 supporting each job (If the job system remains the same as V1)

tanking the revition 5 as a starting point.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3...essionrev5.jpg

THIEF
Pugilist & Archer

NINJA
Pugilist & Marauder

Paladin
Marauder & Conjurer

Dark Knight
Lancer & Marauder

MONK
Lancer & Archer

Puppet Master
Rogue & Lancer (this was tough, i didn't wanted to make it the same as Monk, but i had no idea)

WARRIOR
Gladiator & Pugilist

BERSERKER
Lancer & Pugilist

BARD
Conjurer & Thamauturge

Ranger
Rogue & Musketeer

WHITE MAGE
Gladiator & Pugilist

GREEN MAGE
Fencer & Thaumaturge

BLACK MAGE
Pugilist & Archer

NECROMANCER
Arcanist & Archer

SUMMONER
Conjurer & Archer

SCHOLAR
Thaumaturge & Fencer

RED MAGE
Conjurer & Thaumaturge

BLUE MAGE
Rogue & Archer

CORSAIR
Pugilist & Archer

GUNBLADE MASTER (I didn't thought that there would be much difference betwin Musketeer and Gunner so i changed it to Gunblade Master)
Rogue & Fencer

I didn't put Shepherd > Beast Master, because i don't think a DoL into a DoW would be a good idea. I welcome critics and ideas

I haven't read through the rest of the thread, but why not make geomancer spring from thaumaterge in place of the necromancer? When I think of a necromancer, I think of summoning undead-themed pets, which doesn't seem to fit well with the thau's elemental attack theme. Geomancer, on the other hand, seems like a better fit.

I would take blue mage out of the fencer tree and place it in the Shepherd tree.

That way you have a melee variety of beast control (beastmaster) and a mage variety (blue mage) who instead of tames beasts, learns their abilities.

Under Fencer I would of course place Redmage who would instead of focus on the enfeeble master like XI would be of the DD party support, by augmenting with magic the damage type of weapons (think en-element-ga) and weakening the monsters resistance to damage types.

as a 2nd fencer class I propose making a tanking type class, keepign with FF lore, call it mystic Knight.

I like those ideas of Fencer branching into RDM and Mystic Knight, and Shepherd branching into Beastmaster and BLU. If you swapped out Necromancer for Geomancer, you'd get the following set:
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6...essionrev6.jpg

I like where this thread is going so I'll throw My hat in the ring.First let Me explain My changes.Rogue to Pilferer as I don't think SE would use Rogue.Pilferer sounds to Me to be in the same line as conjurer or thaumaturge.I removed Shepard as I think that it is very unlikely SE has a dow job branch of a dol class(though I do like the thought process behind it).Then for the same reason others have mentioned removed Necromancer.I put Geomancer with THM and replaced Green Mage for Time Mage then changed Gunner to Engineer(has more of a Final Fantasy feel imo).

I really like where Nayito was going with his post so I decided to put the class combinations with the jobs.It was very difficult to not want to over use some classes.Here is what I came up with...for now.http://i.imgur.com/FQNNL1M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FQNNL1M.jpg

I'd personally like to see Chemist instead of engineer. I think this has actually been said multiple times in this post. An extra healer would be really good for FFXIV. Not to mention the idea of throwing a potion in the air, shooting it, and having it heal your party? Pretty cool. The Chemist could also have bombs, status effect potions that he could throw at the mobs (kind of like the thf bolts in FFXI) etc...

That being said, it doesn't really fit in FFXIV in terms of Eorzea persay. It fits well with the Garlean Empire. Doing some sort of sleuthing to get the job.. would be neat.

Grim i was thinkking more in the lines of this

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6...essionrev6.jpg

Now, i made some changes to my original post, as i was making it I thought about it a bit better. also in the last post i forgot to add DRG and SAM lol

I didn't put the Geomancer cause I don't see it having much in comun with THM. where ass Necromancer fits a bit better, not perfect but a bit better, over the elemental nuking it could have BIO, Scourge , and some other dark magics, and it's 15 min could be Army of hell or something like that.
Now the Green Mage is a Buffer/debuffer so it goes with the CNJ
I like FFVIII so Gunblade FTW, also i don't see engineer fitting with Musketeer and GUnner would be kind of the same as Musketeer so why have it.

so there it goes, this is kind a fun and keeps mu busy for a bit lol

Samurai should be a job for something that doesn't start out with a Lance...Maybe if there was a class that job focuses on a long blade or something similar and then the job levels up to Samurai than that's different.

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Originally Posted by Rahsch

Samurai should be a job for something that doesn't start out with a Lance...Maybe if there was a class that job focuses on a long blade or something similar and then the job levels up to Samurai than that's different.

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the thing is, that samurais use lance type of weapons like

Yari:
http://getasword.com/1284-thickbox/y...urai-spear.jpg
Naginata
http://getasword.com/c/70-category/samurai-weapons.jpg

and yes, they are not lances per say, but they are very similar

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Originally Posted by Rahsch

Samurai should be a job for something that doesn't start out with a Lance...Maybe if there was a class that job focuses on a long blade or something similar and then the job levels up to Samurai than that's different.

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Personally, I think a job is identified more by their role and their special abilities more than by their weapon. I'm okay with a SAM that uses a lance, and maybe there's job-specific gear which happens to be a two-handed sword like a Nodachi. To me, what's important is that a SAM would be a melee DPS that was slightly more tank-y than a DRG, but pays for that extra protection somehow. Maybe, like in classic Final Fantasy entries, their abilities require burning cash.

Nayito and I are just going to have to disagree about the Necromancer. :P Would NECs in FFXIV also retain their undead status from FFV, and thus take damage from attempts to heal them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nayito

the thing is, that samurais use lance type of weapons like

Yari:
http://getasword.com/1284-thickbox/y...urai-spear.jpg
Naginata
http://getasword.com/c/70-category/samurai-weapons.jpg

and yes, they are not lances per say, but they are very similar

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gotta do my disco first:

Make Jobs their own, and classes build them. Stop restricting jobs, stop restricting classes.. Just finally separate them lol

Onto your point, I think you can certaintly build Samurai from a lancer class BUT Samurai MUST be able to use a katana.

If there is a Samurai who can't use a katana I will buy a plane, fly to SE office, 'land' my jet in their parking lot, and flip Yoshida's table, then I will buy a moogle plushie and swim back.

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Originally Posted by Nayito

I like FFVIII so Gunblade FTW, also i don't see engineer fitting with Musketeer and GUnner would be kind of the same as Musketeer so why have it.

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Archer+ Ranger, Pilferer+ Thief are kind of the same so why have those jobs either? =P Gunner is a staple job for that weapon so atleast if your gonna use that as an excuse be consistant. A chemist like job would be nice to see. Could easily be a job for Musketeer, cannon user class or perhaps a gadget user class? Thief too could take up the mix command ala ffx though i can see that being a controversial move.

Nayito I must admit I'm a little confused at some of the combinations you have listed there.Are you throwing the requirements we have now out such as MAR + GLA =WAR because you have GLA + PGL = WAR; or are you saying the need 3 classes to get a job now.I think we should base everything off the current job requirements.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If there is a Samurai who can't use a katana I will buy a plane, fly to SE office, land my jet in their parking lot, and flip Yoshida's table, then I will buy a moogle plushie and swim back.

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Can use and must use are two very different positions.
Samurai were proficient in a wide variety of weapons from their era, including firearms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai#Weapons

This is me, sticking to my guns: Define the class by their abilities, not by their weapons. But by all means, give them job-specific Nodachi.

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Originally Posted by IndigoDarkwolf

Can use and must use are two very different positions.
Samurai were proficient in a wide variety of weapons from their era, including firearms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai#Weapons

This is me, sticking to my guns: Define the class by their abilities, not by their weapons. But by all means, give them job-specific Nodachi.

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I said must have a katana - meaning they can use it. So I dont think I did anything wrong propositioning. Edit: but for the sake of it, I edited to make it clear :P

Also I know they can use a lot, somewhere in the forums you can find me saying they often use bows, spears, and swords.

But.. its still a good wiki page :P

Also you can see from my post that Jobs are defined by ideas and classes by weapons. I have no problem with Samurai using lances and bows, but if he cant use a katana - then table flipping time ^^.

(basically I agree with you.. lol +1 :P)

I'm cool with a scout class splitting into thf and ninja. Light quick attacks, speed, and some stealth on base class (maybe steal, and thf job could enhance steal and get other stuff). Nin could add dual wield, darkness attacks, and ninjutsu. thf would add the obvious, steal if not on base class, mug, increased drop rate and gil, and w/e new stuff theyd like to surprise us with.

I'm a bit torn on sam coming from lnc. But I can see why it would be plausible.

As for drk coming from gld, I know they said they were considering it, but because of the weaker WS and low base stats of gld, it makes me nervous. Unless they add GSD to gld and have it change the stats of the class. which I'd be cool with.

as for fencer, blu, rdm, sch there is a LOT of room for them to work with, especially with arcanist coming out and using a book as a weapon.

my personal dream though is a whip class that learns about 10 spells from enemies and has 5 native abilities. then could become BST and learn to tame stuff, or BLU and continue to learn more powerful spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IndigoDarkwolf

Can use and must use are two very different positions.
Samurai were proficient in a wide variety of weapons from their era, including firearms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai#Weapons

This is me, sticking to my guns: Define the class by their abilities, not by their weapons. But by all means, give them job-specific Nodachi.

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I agree,there isn't any reason not to have job specific weapons.I guess the only thing to work around is having to have a weapon equipped to switch to a job.Maybe lancers could equip pole arms and katana only for the fact that you would need the katana equipped to change to samurai.I know people would bitch about that but make it so the job abilities make it so no dumb ass tries to equip a katana while playing DRG.

edit* Also give GLA a great sword,if BLU is going to come off fencer give fencer rapiers and scimitars.We already have mages using wands and staves and GLA using swords and daggers, I'm sure they could make it work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

I agree,there isn't any reason not to have job specific weapons.I guess the only thing to work around is having to have a weapon equipped to switch to a job.Maybe lancers could equip pole arms and katana only for the fact that you would need the katana equipped to change to samurai.I know people would bitch about that but make it so the job abilities make it so no dumb ass tries to equip a katana while playing DRG.

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Or they can make it so when you equip the soul you can then also equip the special weapon.

However I believe they should have a class for every weapon type - else its another reason why I'll think the "armory" system is bad.. lol (inconsistencies = not good). Since its not armory if things are leaking through just for the sake of "I cant figure out how to make this idea work", if it doesn't work you change it or get rid of it.