Nothing to do with people being a "fanboy" more subs doesnt make it better, wow is a super casual game, theres more casuals in the world than hardcores, thats your homeland.
Most people from 11 btw, that actually did endgame are disgusted by achievements... they are stupid. We enjoy gear/facts/numbers, achieve's mean nothing, they do nothing, and shouldnt. Makes me think of achievement hunters on ps3 or xbox360, playing any game, theres some idiot using the same gimp weapon or something over and over getting some achiev to make himself feel good... and its nothing, you didnt even play the game, its a feel-good pos they feed you and call it progression, your char is no better, heres your gold sticker.
How exactly arent you a "fanboy" for WoW if you like the term so much.
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08-22-2012, 06:19 AMJeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 06:26 AMJennestia
People always throw around WoW's numbers yet never state the fact Blizzard counts inactive, banned and canceled accounts in their total numbers too -- Sub number doesn't mean a game is good because Maplestory is one of the most played MMOs in existence and we can debate whether it's good or not and pre or post Big Bang.
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08-22-2012, 06:28 AMKioteSorry to say, but your the only one Fanboy posting in here. As far as your post imply, you think everything about WoW is perfect. You actually believe WoW has 10 mil subs despite widespread reports of Blizzard inflating it's estimates using One time Log-in subs from net cafes.Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
The vast majority of MMO players do not play Endgame content. That is an actual Fact. But in WoW, the difference in the number of Endgame players compared to the number of people playing everything else is far more drastic because the People who play endgame content regularly get bored faster than others.
I would not be the least bit surprised if WoWs endgame population has dropped below 1%. -
08-22-2012, 06:28 AMTimonLoonhttp://i.qkme.me/3ocj4e.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 06:29 AMfusional
WoW is successful because it's accessible to casuals while still having content for midcores and hardcores as well. i've already explained this and it gets extraordinarily tiresome having to repeat myself when it's obvious you don't know anything about it and don't care to learn.
when i bring up achievements, i'm not talking about FFXIV-like "hey you talked to an NPC and got a yukata, congratulations!" achievements (though WoW certainly DID have those). i'm talking about extraordinarily difficult "hey, you took down this certain boss under special circumstances designed to make the fight quite a lot more challenging than it already is, congratulations!" achievements. you'd already know this if you've ever actually done anything in WoW.
you're not doing yourself or anyone any favors by making it obvious you have no idea what's going on. your opinion is your opinion, but what is it based on? in this instance- apparently nothing.
i'm not a "fanboy" because i don't play WoW anymore, and i stopped playing a while ago when the game began heading in a direction that i wasn't terribly pleased about. i'm not a fanboy because i also played XI for years, and am currently playing XIV. i'm not a fanboy because i have no problems objectively commenting on the strong and weak points of each game respectively. i'm not a fanboy because i only make measured arguments about things i actually know about and experienced. i'm not a fanboy because i don't care whether WoW exists for another 10 years or dies within the next 6 months- i just get really damn tired of seeing a bunch of XIV and XI people say a bunch of stupid sh*t about a game they don't know the first thing about.
and you know why that's funny? because i fought the same battle in the WoW forums, only in favor of FFXI- because the WoW fanboys tended to do exactly the same thing.
so congratulations, i guess. you're the XI/XIV equivalent of a WoW fanboy.
okay, Neil Cavuto. mind sharing your sources?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
(don't worry. i already know you can't/won't.)
and i try really hard not to say things like "you're an idiot", but unless you can actually make some real, logical arguments rather than resorting to blatant straw men- you're an idiot. -
08-22-2012, 06:34 AMfusionalhi jennestia. thanks for swooping in to attempt to yet again make an argument into something it's not. it's always appreciated. but in the meantime, can you post any proof of me referencing WoW in any qualitative terms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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08-22-2012, 06:36 AMDawiichanWell that's because the state of how good something is would not be considered a normative statement. One could say that the amount of subs reflects on how good a game is, but everyone has their own personal opinions. Some could easily say that the 1.0 launch is the best thing ever made (Rok***). Some people enjoy the aspects WoW brought in a lot more, some did the same for XI. Each game usually focuses on one thing more than others. Like in the INCGamers article, the interviewer asked Yoshida what XIV's main aspect will be, and compared it to other main aspects like SWTOR's and GW2's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
However, I do agree that it's quite funny how people call some XI players fanboys in a demeaning way, yet they are acting as one themselves on how they write. Though I personally don't get why. I'm not going to deny that I'm a fanboy. I enjoyed both WoW and XI a lot when I played it.
If you're going to write a demeaning response, do it to a more appropriate post such as this:
Someone not noticing that a response made towards a post about the quality of a game, would in fact be a qualitative response when compared with something else (Indirect statements ftw) Then at the same time trying to dodge a statement which went against their own statement by using ridicule.Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
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08-22-2012, 06:47 AMfusional
Speaking of sidestepping- is anyone going to show where I said WoW is "good" or "better" or not?
no?
okay. -
08-22-2012, 06:54 AMChurchillI challenge you to explain to me how the damage formula works in FFXI, an easy task because you care so much about numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 06:55 AMfusionalnot only does he care about numbers, but he clearly cares more about them than any of the WoW-heads over at elitist jerks. amirite or amirite? and now he's going to prove it. just you wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
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08-22-2012, 07:02 AMJeronlmo
I dont care what you thought WoW was a long time ago, ive played WoW recently, and did the current endgame, this is the endgame yoshi made his team play, this is what they are going to copy, the same wow you just said you dont like the direction they are going, this all just recently happened, not 5yrs ago.
Even these very hard to get achievements you liked so much... are still very dumb, they arent gear, its a gold sticker, making a fight harder than it is proves nothing other than you wasted time, the fight should just be difficult, win or lose. -
08-22-2012, 07:10 AMChurchill
hi, you posted yet ignored my question.
I just met you, and this is crazy, but answer my question or get the fuck out. -
08-22-2012, 07:11 AMKioteYou should just go back and read your own posts. Everything you point out as a Negative is referenced to XI or XIV and everything you point as a positive you Reference WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
I tried to have a reasonable discussion with people in this thread and it degenerated into a WoWs great everything else sucks thread. So I defended XI. Now the tables have turned and suddenly it's not fair. But I do not care.
The point of this thread is Should XIV be a WoW clone and the Answer is no. Was WoW the most profitable MMO ever? Yes. Was it the most fun MMO ever? No. Not by a long shot. I've played F2P MMOs made on a $100 budget that were more fun.
There is not one single benefit to any person on these forums to Final Fantasy XIV having 10 million subs. All MMOs have one factor that determines whether or not they stay online. Is it profitable. Not, Is it the most profitable ever. I for one will take a slightly profitable game with good mechanics over a Gold Mine piece of trash.
The only things SE should take from WoW are the ease of entry and the Marketing push. Nothing else in the game is remotely responsible for it's success. -
08-22-2012, 07:17 AMJeronlmo
Your really trying to demand I post numbers? Like i should just know them from years ago off the top of my head in a game I no longer play? I could go look them up somewhere and copy/paste but ill leave that to you, 2 of you here are acting like children and getting butthurt.
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08-22-2012, 07:18 AMExnYo, not everyone was an achievement whore like you? (Well assuming you yourself pursued such acheivements, cause if not, then wtf are you even talking about...). Clearly Inkie was highly versed in WoW endgame.. and WoW in general, yet still here you go w/ more excuses... And kiting kirin around pillars... REALLY? That was the best you could come up with? You sir, are indeed a joke(in regards to this thread at least). OK, carry on WoWhead..Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
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08-22-2012, 07:21 AMChurchillbackpedal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
you are not elite enough, get out -
08-22-2012, 07:24 AMReiterpallaschExcept quite a few of the harder to get achievements actually do come with rewards such as mounts and whatnot for going above and beyond what's required for the fight, but ok whatever you say there guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 07:26 AMfusional
i just want to know why whenever you ask someone to post proof they always peace out.
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08-22-2012, 07:28 AMChurchill
because most people who think they are pro/were pro have a flagrantly poor understanding of how anything actually worked.
pseudo-elitism. -
08-22-2012, 07:31 AMJeronlmo
Thats not asking for proof, he asked for the damage formula from ff11, how is that proof of anything in any way? Im not going to go look it up or something, and you cant tell me you know random formula's off the top of your head from games you played a long time ago, its just rediculous, and the fact that your chiming in proves my point that your both children.
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08-22-2012, 07:32 AMPriyaPlease Read: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...to-9-1-MillionQuote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
You do realize in order to get those achievements, you had to beat the hardmode content... which gave better gear than regular versions? Perhaps it argues in favor of your "gold sticker" standpoint, but achievements also gave Mounts, Titles and Vanity pets. Gold stickers to be sure, but I think, that technically does advance your character(s) in some way, no? Does earning a vanity item not count? Are you completely against everything the Living on a Prayer quest in XIV gives? (On its own, it's not hard, but it does symbolize that you beat Darnus--a more advanced fight.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
There are two things here I very much doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
1-- That Yoshi's team never played any game besides FF ever until ordered by their boss to do so.
2-- That they are completely oblivious to WoW's past content just because they may not have played it. There's still a wealth of information/videos that's easily obtainable.
Fun is subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiote
Now, if you'll excuse me....
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...ildsnorlax.jpg -
08-22-2012, 07:34 AMfusional
i'd kinda like to give priya hugs with my mouth.
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08-22-2012, 07:35 AMDuelleI have a feeling there would be some difficulty making her fin in there, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
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08-22-2012, 07:42 AMExnAgree 100%, although I dunno if that last part is true or not about most XI ppl being disgusted by achievements. I too thought it was lame when achievements were added, but I get that there is likely a large enough crowd that roots for em. I really couldn't careless about their achievements, though, some of them are tied to nice enough rewards that you can actually consider it progression, and I'll go for the 'achievement' simply because I need the reward.. but I guess that's no different from a quest > reward system. They could keep the omgachievementpoints.... until those get tied into some badass non-novelty reward that is... I'd rather they just kept it out completely but ya know.. content is content..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 07:42 AMJeronlmo
I believe they are letting your pets go between alts now, think i heard something about that happening soon when i quit.~ Also yes, vanity anything is worthless, a mount that lets you do what you already did is nothing, if it was faster then it would be worth it, but they arent anymore, everything is the same speed. An achievement saying you won something is... ok, but an achievement saying you did something in a raid, that didnt need to be done, it was just for the achievement, just means you wasted time.
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08-22-2012, 07:44 AMPriyaYou are correct. Thank you. I have edited my previous post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 07:45 AMExnI just want to know why whenever someone shows you proof you just make up another excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
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08-22-2012, 07:47 AMfusional
can you show me where anyone did that? can you do that? if you could do that i would be chuffed as nuts.
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08-22-2012, 07:48 AMDawiichanAchievements have been considered with different extremes recently. I know half of my LS finds achievements completely pointless. However you have to understand that some people like to take on an extra challenge. Personally, the main reason why I play games are not only for the story, but also for the challenge that comes with them. While, as a fresh example, in Aurum Vale you don't have to clear it without the red/blue buff, it definitely gives a different perspective of the dungeon if you don't use it. Some people enjoy handicapping themselves to test out the peak of their abilities. Hence why achievements which require more than necessary are made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeronlmo
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08-22-2012, 07:48 AMXxOstiaxXHe does a "Starlord" ? InterestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Exn
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08-22-2012, 07:51 AMExnQuote:
Originally Posted by fusional
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
Yo Cid, wtf is a "Starlord"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkie
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08-22-2012, 07:51 AMXxOstiaxXPeople always throw "Facts out of their ass" when they have no idea as to what the hell they are talking about... Because you know WOW uses inactive subs towards their total current subs.... OH WAIT!! They dont lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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08-22-2012, 07:53 AMJeronlmo
The idea of an achievement for doing "extra", or something that doesnt need to be done bothers me, like your AV example, i never get food, not because of the achieve, but because its faster, w/e the hardest/most effective thing is, that should just be what you have to do, just not a fan that people do less and win.
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08-22-2012, 07:55 AMXxOstiaxXWhen you prove something and the person being called out or proven wrong usually uses one of the following excuses:Quote:
Originally Posted by Exn
"That is subjective"
"You are wrong because "Mysterious reasons"
"You are right, but fuck it i am a fanboy" -
08-22-2012, 07:58 AMXxOstiaxX
Anyways, whats the drama with achievements ? If i recall correctly most are worthless anyways, the only really worthwhile ones where the hardmode ones and arenas anyways <.<
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08-22-2012, 08:05 AMJeronlmo
Basically they asked someone to post a link to their very old WoW chars, they did, and then bashed them for not having certain achievements.
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08-22-2012, 08:08 AMfusionalso you conveniently missed this part directly afterQuote:
Originally Posted by Exn
which is important for several reasons, but namely-Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
so. what's happening here is i keep referencing these specific encounters, right? and i'm doing it for a reason. and because you're being a moron, i apparently need to explain this very carefully to you. i'll even type it in capitals.Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
NOT ALL CONTENT IS CREATED EQUAL.
comprende?
so here you have me referencing specific bosses from specific raids, specific achievements tied to those bosses- and i ask someone if they've done these. i challenge them, if WoW is soooooo easy, to show me they've completed stuff that is actually considered hard in that game. because then if they've done it, and they had an easy time of it, calling all of WoW's endgame easy would carry a bit more weight, yeah?
and what happened was- they posted their character names, and upon searching them on the armory you can very quickly and easily see that they, in fact, *did not* clear this difficult content. they very clearly were a casual-to-midcore player who predominantly did some heroic grinding for wellfare epics then filled in the gaps in their gear with easy to get stuff from bosses people *pugged* in that game.
what does this mean?
they only served to prove me right.
why is this funny? because you know *so little* about the game in question that you think their proof is actually proof, without having any understanding of it and without actually looking it over and vetting it whatsoever.
and then when i reiterate my unchallenged position, you've the audacity to claim i dodged?
do you have any idea at all what's going on here, or anywhere for that matter? who are you and what have you done? surely you'll stop and ask me why that's important, and this is my answer:
because if you've done nothing, then there's a higher likelihood of you understanding nothing. if you understand nothing, you lack perspective and experience to give your arguments clout. if you make arguments lacking clout, i have absolutely no reason at all to take anything you say seriously.
now if you want me to take you seriously, how about doing that thing i keep asking about- providing proof. provide proof of your accomplishments in MMOs. show us what you've experienced, help us understand your perspective. give us an idea of how much weight your arguments carry.
because otherwise you're just spewing a bunch of baseless crap like the people you're blindly waving your flag for.
savvy? -
08-22-2012, 08:08 AMPriyaThey were brought up because they can be used as time-stamped proof that you actually cleared content. Granted, it doesn't quite work if you go back to before they were implemented or if a character has been inactive for a very long time, but generally the latter is more of an issue than the former.Quote:
Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX
You're driving the point home by pointing out the ones that were harder to achieve. Thank you for that. -
08-22-2012, 08:29 AMfusional
anyway, this entire thread is an exercise in futility. the anti-WoW crowd here as a general rule has no interest in objectivity, facts, or rationale. they're just here to endlessly beat their chests about a game they either never experienced, or only experienced limited segments of. (which is, again, no different from the anti-FFXI or anti-XXXX crowds over on the WoW forums...)
and you know what? that's fine if you didn't clear everything in the game. totally fine.
but the point is- if you haven't, don't comment on it. you have no leg to stand on. you want to talk about what kind of content is difficult and what isn't? cool, but go clear garuda first. she's the *furthest* thing from difficult, but it's a start.
and then you can go work on Rivenroad (hard). which actually is fairly hard compared to other stuff in *this* game (and harder than most stuff in XI). but compared to the specific achievements/bosses i referenced when talking about difficult stuff in WoW- Rivenroad (hard) is a walk in the park.
and if you can't even beat Rivenroad (hard), how exactly am i supposed to take you seriously when you see me reference *actually* difficult things like Firefighter and Alone in the Darkness and tell me they must be super easy because you pugged flame leviathan?
get out of here. -
08-22-2012, 08:31 AMExnNo, it was actually "you that conveniently missed this part directly after"Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
Ahhh yea, see what I did there^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Exn
Guys, I think this guy deserves a prize.. Congratulations on your revelation, really. I think the rest of us likely realized that when first demoing the new Pong on Atari, but nonetheless I'm glad you finally caught up..Quote:
Originally Posted by fusional
Ok, at the point you asked if I understand that fundamental concept, in Spanish... I stopped reading, gotta be honest. The rest of what you posted could be very inspirational and enlightening, or could be more of the same defensive pandering dodging the fact that someone showed you your 'proof', as you requested, with a valid opinion that counters your own.. you simply can't just leave it at that. I'mmmm betting more of the same so, I dunno, you win?