Scholar's Identity Transformation

Did anyone over on the JP side voice any of their complaints?
The robes and dinky wings are going to look so bad on male roe
I know that XIV only really caters to female bodies, but this is too much
I'm worried that transform skills are going to become a trend

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

Did anyone over on the JP side voice any of their complaints?
The robes and dinky wings are going to look so bad on male roe
I know that XIV only really caters to female bodies, but this is too much
I'm worried that transform skills are going to become a trend

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It’s the only change on the JP side that got two different threads opposing it so yeah they don’t like it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s the only change on the JP side that got two different threads opposing it so yeah they don’t like it

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That's a relief, hopefully if they won't remove it they will at least adjust it
Although this close to release, that seems very unlikely

The only thing the lore book says that I'm aware of is "With soul crystals providing an anchor for their existence, these otherworldly servants are made manifest through the accumulated aether of past nymian mages." Which doesn't really say anything, but wraps it up in flowery language. The angel feathers description is a quote from some npc that got fixed by it so is also nearly entirely devoid of any information. The warrior limit break specifically mentions it as being the party's gathered aether, so quite how much of any of this still counts after dynamos was added is a mystery - taking things at face value, astral statis might no longer work post myths if the heavens all got deleted when the pantheon was replaced by an ansaphone.

Do EE2 and EE3 say anything about seraph? I don't know and I'm not paying for the pair of them to find out.

> Play the fairy class
> There are fairies
> "I hate this change they made about bringing more fairies to the fairy class"

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

> Play the fairy class
> There are fairies
> "I hate this change they made about bringing more fairies to the fairy class"

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> play the battle tactician class
> get Christmas tree topper robes
> “yes this change is perfectly thematically consistent”

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

> Play the fairy class
> There are fairies
> "I hate this change they made about bringing more fairies to the fairy class"

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Except there's nothing 'fairy' about the transformation.

white robes with golden feathery wings do not resemble any of the following:

Eos: yellow and turquise/green fairy with butterfly wings
Selene: yellow and purple fairy with butterfly wings
Seraph: blue and white fairy with feathered wings

Now that's more of a valid point, except that fairies have Always been this important in XIV's scholars. They are tacticians, yes, but the job has Always been about fairies.

You dont like the class's identity, and that's fair. It's still not a change, but a continuation. Eating up your fairy to enhance yourself was the disruption, DT's changes are just a return to traditional SCH identity.

And yes, wings do not have anything to do with fairies, my bad.

The job has been about fairies……..being used as a tool by the SCH. In terms of lore there is functionally no different between the fairy and the SCH’s ability to use aetherflow. They are tools and tactics the SCH can use

This doesn’t work with this weird angelic transformation that barely connects to fairies anyway but even so breaks the distinct visual split between the fairy and the SCH

If this was like a military coat fading into existence around us that would be thematic even if the skill effect didn’t change

Dissipation is arguably the most thematic skill to SCH, deciding to trade one “tool” temporarily for another tool

Not this weird angelic look

Yeah. You're talking about another game, brother. A game whose tacticians you like more. It's alright. There are a lot of jobs you can pick from, if you really dislike that aesthetic.

I guess when you come down to it pre ShB 14 is a totally different game isn’t it

Wow such a jerk. Not all players are like you. Some have invested more and wanted the job to stay what it is.

Seraph could have stayed as an LB3 and i will die on that hill. Allowing her to be summonable outside LB3 lost the impact it has, whatever's left of it.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

And yes, wings do not have anything to do with fairies, my bad.

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Ah yes, I forgot, fairies are well known for having golden feathery wings. How stupid of me to expect fairy transformation to include butterfly like wings like most VFX on sch fairy related things.

PreSHB XIV was more connected to fairies, and I'm only a jerk because I disagree with you. You're a jerk to people that like the fairy-aspected SCH. Once again, it's alright.

I'm personally fine with summoning seraph. I am however not fine on becoming THE seraph.

No. You are a jerk for telling people to switch to a job that is similar to their liked aesthetic. First of all, we like SCH for the military tactician theme with it since 2.x. Now they're going for this route.

Never have I mentioned that I didn't like the fairies. I may have liked Carbuncle more but that's just about it.

And don't worry, if I didn't like the direction SE is doing to its game, I can vote with my wallet. I am just one vocal customer airing their distaste with the direction of the product they have supported for a long time.

Pre ShB SCH had more fairy skills but it was more focused on the fairy being a tool for the SCH to exploit, it’s why Selene was the support fairy. Think back in SB the fairy really only had 3 heals (embrace, whispering dawn and rouse for usually whispering dawn and you could argue illumination). Focus shifted towards the fairy being the primary means of SCH healing moving into ShB which reduced the thematic effects of skills like dissipation because it retroactively made it look like the fairy was less tool and more “the actual healer in the pair”

Regardless how focused SCH is or isn’t on fairies, it’s 100% not focused on angels which is what Seraphism is

Also a personal criticism when SCH was a poison mage it was unequivocally the “masculine” healer in my eyes. I don’t want forced robes. I desperately organise my healer glams to avoid this. Why would they think forcing this is a good idea

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Originally Posted by rawker

No. You are a jerk for telling people to switch to a job that is similar to their liked aesthetic. First of all, we like SCH for the military tactician theme with it since 2.x.

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I mean, we all can agree I never saw the military tactician theme as prevalent since 2.x, and that's up to every individual's pov, most of my friends view it as the fairy class, you don't, that's it.

But what was I supposed to tell you as to not be a jerk ? "Just unsub" ? I'm telling you if you want an intellectual and "tactical" healer, you can go SGE. If you want a buffer, you can go AST. I'm not being rude, I'm telling you it's not that bad.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Regardless how focused SCH is or isn’t on fairies, it’s 100% not focused on angels which is what Seraphism is

Also a personal criticism when SCH was a poison mage it was unequivocally the “masculine” healer in my eyes. I don’t want forced robes. I desperately organise my healer glams to avoid this. Why would they think forcing this is a good idea

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Nevertheless, I do admit I was being a bit too sarcastic there. I don't really like the fact the transformation seems much more light-aspected than fairy-aspected, because that's just making SCH a subsidiary of WHM, and I dislike that, just as you do. That's however been the case for a while, so I was not expecting much, hence why I'm not that disappointed.

Regarding the masculine part... I get it, I just don't think robes are inherently not masculine. Once again, that's up to interpretation.

Yeah I mean taking a “if you have no expectations you can’t be disappointed” is probably the best thing for your heart health if you are healer main in this game

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

But what was I supposed to tell you as to not be a jerk ? "Just unsub" ? I'm telling you if you want an intellectual and "tactical" healer, you can go SGE. If you want a buffer, you can go AST. I'm not being rude, I'm telling you it's not that bad.

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And I have nothing against people who saw it as such. But the thing that caught my attention was just bluntly telling others that there are other jobs for them to play when some... I'm not going to lie, I include myself, have loved the job as it was presented, at relaunch. The aesthetics, the gameplay (old SCH) is so interesting and rewarding if you have made the right decision, every single time.

I want that to retain.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yeah I mean taking a “if you have no expectations you can’t be disappointed” is probably the best thing for your heart health if you are healer main in this game

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Or if you happen to really like any villain or side character in the MSQ :o

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Originally Posted by rawker

And I have nothing against people who saw it as such. But the thing that caught my attention was just bluntly telling others that there are other jobs for them to play when some... I'm not going to lie, I include myself, have loved the job as it was presented, at relaunch. The aesthetics, the gameplay (old SCH) is so interesting and rewarding if you have made the right decision, every single time.

I want that to retain.

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I understand that, and I'm sorry if I came out as rude. I do think the gameplay will not change that much, as the transformation will just be a potency buff for heals, probably, so you got that going for you.

No harm done. Not mad at anything.. As for the increased healing potency.. well.. it's borderline-broken.

The actual nature of seraphism as a GCD amplifier is problematic in it of itself

Let’s take a conservative estimation it’s a 10% amplifier. Stacking every one of your amplifiers would equal (1*1.2=1.2*1.1=1.32*1.1=1.452*1.1=1.6) let’s apply a 1.6* amplifier to spreadlo. Spreadlo as a base is about 835 potency of shield (1.5* crit multiplier= 810 1.6*crit multiplier= 864). A 1.6* amplifier on that is equal to 1336 potency of raw shielding. That is bonkers

Let’s instead imply that seraphism is ripped directly from temperance and is a 20%. That makes the combined amplifier 1.74* which would make spreadlo 1453 which is even worse

But that’s not all. Right now it’s very unlikely you will burn all spreadlo amplifiers on one spreadlo because 2 have alternate effects (illumination is a mitigation and dissipation blocks the fairy). Seraphism looks to be an unconditional amplifier (like protraction) so let’s assume when you do a spreadlo you will only burn the unconditional amplifiers then spreadlo would be 1010 under a 10% seraphism or 1102 under a 20% seraphism

But that’s not all folks. There is also a CD reduction to recitation. So now you can spreadlo every time deployment is up and still critdom once per 3 minutes. I’m not even going to mention the buff to ET because generally you don’t mention ET when it comes to pure healing capacity of SCH

These changes are beyond bonkers for SCH’s healing and mitigation potential to the point I genuinely don’t think they can properly balance this any more because either they buff SGE To compensate and just delete the regen healers or they don’t buff SGE and SGE just gets deleted

Since Swiftcast got its CD halved, I think it's fair to assume the next raids will need much more healing, so that's not necessarily that bonkers... Maybe that's just the baseline for burst healing/shielding in DT.

If SCH isn’t breaking mechanics with that capacity SGE is going to get left behind because SGE’s shielding capacity is poor as hell

Wouldn't be surprised to see if they give 300% barrier from E.Prognosis, 500% to E.Diagnosis, and a 2nd charge to Zoe. Don't forget, even if SCH got Adlo 2/Succor 2, Eukrasian Diagnosis have higher priority than both... So your preparation for that gigantic spread critlo will be overwritten even before you get the chance to hit Deployment Tactics

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Originally Posted by rawker

Wouldn't be surprised to see if they give 300% barrier from E.Prognosis, 500% to E.Diagnosis, and a 2nd charge to Zoe.

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E prog is already 320 so that would be a nerf

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

E prog is already 320 so that would be a nerf

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oh yeah.. mixed up the 2. Basically make not adlo do 300% and the not succor 500%

I guess the only relevance SGE have over SCH is the ability to overwrite buffed up adlo to spread

https://i.ibb.co/nbsW8FQ/Whatdidyoushipmeanbythis.jpg

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

You dont like the class's identity, and that's fair. It's still not a change, but a continuation. Eating up your fairy to enhance yourself was the disruption, DT's changes are just a return to traditional SCH identity.

And yes, wings do not have anything to do with fairies, my bad.

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Wait, so DT is introducing several dots in the single target and aoe rotation, an emphasis on choice for which faire to bring, and healing or damage. Completly independent pet abilites allowing control even while casting spells, and bringing back percentage based healing?

Hard to believe you got all that from the trailer, I'm pretty excited about scholar now.

I don't think dissipation is a bad skill thematically either. Maybe in execution...The faire is there to heal, and if you don't need healing, than benching them for extra damage is something a strategist would consider.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

https://i.ibb.co/nbsW8FQ/Whatdidyoushipmeanbythis.jpg

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Thank you for this haha.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Wait, so DT is introducing several dots in the single target and aoe rotation, an emphasis on choice for which faire to bring, and healing or damage. Completly independent pet abilites allowing control even while casting spells, and bringing back percentage based healing?

Hard to believe you got all that from the trailer, I'm pretty excited about scholar now.

I don't think dissipation is a bad skill thematically either. Maybe in execution...The faire is there to heal, and if you don't need healing, than benching them for extra damage is something a strategist would consider.

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Can we please not be stupid and try to make other people say something else than what they're saying ? I never said Dissipation is a bad skill, nor did I say the "identity" I was speaking about was something related to gameplay. I've always talked about aesthetics. But surely, you knew that and are not just looking for clout.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Can we please not be stupid and try to make other people say something else than what they're saying ? I never said Dissipation is a bad skill, nor did I say the "identity" I was speaking about was something related to gameplay. I've always talked about aesthetics. But surely, you knew that and are not just looking for clout.

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I mean... you called the skill a disruption. Is that not in some way saying you don't like the skill? I didn't even say dissipation was good gameplay wise either... I just said it made sense thematically. You say seraphism furthers the identity, but watching the trailer you see a scholar in the classic academic/military look, and if you glance away for a second and look back you think they moved on to white mage. If not for its name would you really be able to tie it down to scholar? If it was called "Divine Form" and on the white mage kit, ya, it'd still be called ugly and unwanted, but it wouldn't have the massive backlash in lore and not matching the aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I mean... you called the skill a disruption. Is that not in some way saying you don't like the skill? I didn't even say dissipation was good gameplay wise either... I just said it made sense thematically. You say seraphism furthers the identity, but watching the trailer you see a scholar in the classic academic/military look, and if you glance away for a second and look back you think they moved on to white mage. If not for its name would you really be able to tie it down to scholar? If it was called "Divine Form" and on the white mage kit, ya, it'd still be called ugly and unwanted, but it wouldn't have the massive backlash in lore and not matching the aesthetic.

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To be fair WHM in 14 barely has an identity either because there is a massive clash between the 14 lore of them being evolved CNJ’s that work with earth wind and water and the oldschool “WHM means everything they cast is white”

Modern WHM makes zero consistent sense with 14’s WHM lore (unless you take the headcanon approach of we sucked up a lot of light aether from the first which has never been proven) but is pretty thematic to old FF WHM so it’s debatable if Seraphism would fit WHM either

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

To be fair WHM in 14 barely has an identity either because there is a massive clash between the 14 lore of them being evolved CNJ’s that work with earth wind and water and the oldschool “WHM means everything they cast is white”

Modern WHM makes zero consistent sense with 14’s WHM lore (unless you take the headcanon approach of we sucked up a lot of light aether from the first which has never been proven) but is pretty thematic to old FF WHM so it’s debatable if Seraphism would fit WHM either

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Seraphism just shouldn't exist, period. Just because Reaper exists does not mean we needed a kind of angelic counterpart. Especially where it thematically isn't on point for any of the healers.

Although, if it HAD to happen, I would argue Paladin makes more sense than either of them.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Seraphism just shouldn't exist, period. Just because Reaper exists does not mean we needed a kind of angelic counterpart. Especially where it thematically isn't on point for any of the healers.

Although, if it HAD to happen, I would argue Paladin makes more sense than either of them.

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that paladin section is just making a more absurd connection in order to make previous ones absurd. When it's only absurd with Paladin.

(In any case, with XIV lore, belief or actions don't make you into something akin to what your skills are named close to. Your lore does.)

At most, Seraphism just needs more Runes, to give it a tactical feel.

As for the whole reaper thing, at its core, it's just a cover that does a "mode" during a time.
Just like Hypercharge, Just Like All other jobs that have a 50 Spender.

Except wait, not all of them have to transform.

There really isn't a bad thing to the transformation either. just subjective desires.

With only a few visual adjustments, and Addition of Race Features, most wouldn't complain. Cause we are just a few here(and a few there, in the east.)

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It isn't cause they didn't know what to do with scholar.

They knew exactly what it was that they are doing, since other modes/50 spenders already existed prior to Reaper.
[And I find it absurd when the changes some want for the visual go "Reaper Like" or "being embraced by Seraph". Yall think everything is turning into Reaper. and VIPer isn't really a Reaper clone. if that was the case, then Enshroud is just a heavier VFX burst of other previous jobs. Like Development/OG Grit.]

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

https://i.ibb.co/nbsW8FQ/Whatdidyoushipmeanbythis.jpg

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Objection! I can still see your tail there! Seraph, get the sheers!

It's disappointing that the issue of gameplay mechanics not aligning with the identity and perception of jobs, mostly based on lore and in-game quests, was brought up at a Gamescom 2019 panel and yet years later we're still here looking at the same problem continuing to persist. SCH isn't the only one affected by this, but it is one of the most notable ones with the changes over time. More so with these additions coming in 7.0.

If they are really this strapped for ideas of consistent and coherent visuals for SCH, maybe it is time to consider adding some fresh people to the job development and art staff. That, or start running campaigns for players to design something. I'm not really for this route since it encourages unpaid and uncredited labor, but I want to see skill visuals that not only match the job's themes, but also feel exciting and fun to use. Seraphism, as it is currently presented, is none of those things.

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Originally Posted by Icefall

It's disappointing that the issue of gameplay mechanics not aligning with the identity and perception of jobs, mostly based on lore and in-game quests, was brought up at a Gamescom 2019 panel and yet years later we're still here looking at the same problem continuing to persist. SCH isn't the only one affected by this, but it is one of the most notable ones with the changes over time. More so with these additions coming in 7.0.

If they are really this strapped for ideas of consistent and coherent visuals for SCH, maybe it is time to consider adding some fresh people to the job development and art staff. That, or start running campaigns for players to design something. I'm not really for this route since it encourages unpaid and uncredited labor, but I want to see skill visuals that not only match the job's themes, but also feel exciting and fun to use. Seraphism, as it is currently presented, is none of those things.

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I think Seraphism really shows that CBU3 has no actual internal guideline or idea of what each job is actually supposed to be. Every expac they just throw a couple of ideas at the wall and hope they stick. I can't think of any other reason for "turn into an angel in white robes" to be added to the military tactician job.