In-game marriage, will it make a return?

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Originally Posted by Cendres

You're not speaking French you're swearing.... -.- C'est pas gentil...

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It's called a "figure of speech." It's common to say something like "pardon my French" after cursing, as in "sorry for using a foreign word like that."

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

^

Awesome!

im sure camate is jumping of joy around bloodshore right now. :D

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Fact!
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...Sz2V1S_O10.jpg

Well, maybe not joy... http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=393546

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Originally Posted by Elexia

That's good news then. Hopefully if anything they allow it to be player ran mostly.

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I hope so as well. I can forego the special cutscenes as long as we have reference material for weddings like Vana'diel does (wedding vows per job, etc).

Its too bad I have no one to marry in game ;v

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Originally Posted by Mudd

Its too bad I have no one to marry in game ;v

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/comforts Mudd D:

I'm a runaway bride.

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Originally Posted by Amrita

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<3

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...Sznk25rF-4.jpg

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Now I just need to propose to you, don't worry I will be a Man'qote in 2.0. :D rofl.

If Bioware didn't have the balls to include same sex marriage in their MMO then you can completely forget about it in this game.

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Originally Posted by Chain

If Bioware didn't have the balls to include same sex marriage in their MMO then you can completely forget about it in this game.

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I don't see it happening in this game though I wouldn't say it isn't possible. You got to remember it is still a Japanese game and there maybe other rules that say they cannot have something like that in an MMO. They didn't have it in FFXI, so I wouldn't count on it being added here.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I don't see it happening in this game though I wouldn't say it isn't possible. You got to remember it is still a Japanese game and there maybe other rules that say they cannot have something like that in an MMO. They didn't have it in FFXI, so I wouldn't count on it being added here.

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True enough, could have many reasons that would/wouldn't restrict them.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I don't see it happening in this game though I wouldn't say it isn't possible. You got to remember it is still a Japanese game and there maybe other rules that say they cannot have something like that in an MMO. They didn't have it in FFXI, so I wouldn't count on it being added here.

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Then it shouldn't be put in game.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Then it shouldn't be put in game.

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That's what I am saying it won't be put in the game, unless you mean weddings in general but that is silly to ruin everyone's fun because what you believe differs from what the creators either believe or are not allowed to put into their game. Actually here is some factual information:

Articles 731-737 of the Japanese Civil Code restrict marriage to opposite-sex unions. Same-sex couples are not able to marry, and same-sex couples are not granted rights derived from marriage. Also same-sex marriages performed abroad are not legally recognized in Japan and bi-national same-sex couples cannot obtain a visa for the foreign partner based on their relationship.[10]

Only very recently have they taken small steps towards any sort of change but still is not deemed legal by them.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I don't see it happening in this game though I wouldn't say it isn't possible. You got to remember it is still a Japanese game and there maybe other rules that say they cannot have something like that in an MMO. They didn't have it in FFXI, so I wouldn't count on it being added here.

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Remember, people follow the logic of:

"This company did it, so that means SE should do it too!" When it's not a matter of Should/shouldn't, the sad truth is that they can't due to political circumstances that they as a company have to abide by. Many just don't seem to understand that and when they immediately see "MARRIAGE" they think, "SE should add this! blah blah! we demand it because were the customers and other companies do it!" Thing is, those other companies are based in AMERICA and SE is in JAPAN where their views are a lot different than ours and their government draws different borders on what is and isn't allowed. And there is a fine line between "the customer is always right" and the laws of the land.

TS;DR: Japan's views =/= America's Views and demanding someone to do something despite their views is rather selfish.

Actually... here read this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_video_games

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Actually... here read this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_video_games

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It doesn't matter if it was done in video games in general, the fact remains that "Just because other games do it, means SE should do it too" Doesn't mean that they should.
That's like a girl getting pregnant because "Everyone else is doing it too!"
If their views prevent them from doing something like that which is considered "taboo" then don't try to force it on them just because you feel it's right if they did and let them have their say.

If it's such a problem that people have to shove their views down a company's throat even though there are obstacles hindering the company from implementing such a thing, then the idea of player hosted marriages is better, just let SE provide the wedding dresses and tuxes and the community does the rest, because SE is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Unless they make same sex marriages exclusive to just the NA region.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Actually... here read this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_video_games

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However, homosexuality, while relatively innocuous among celebrities in Japan, can still be considered an oddity due to Japan's regimented and conservative social structure. Despite a lack of strong social stigma, homosexuality in men is commonly misconstrued with transgenderism and transvestism in Japan and open homosexuality is rare, due to conformity.[19]

From your link.

The point is because it is still kinda that "Pink Elephant" in the room for them, it would likely not happen to follow the American trend of acceptance. Unless they go outside of the norm and get it approved.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

It doesn't matter if it was done in video games in general, the fact remains that "Just because other games do it, means SE should do it too" Doesn't mean that they should.
That's like a girl getting pregnant because "Everyone else is doing it too!"
If their views prevent them from doing something like that which is considered "taboo" then don't try to force it on them just because you feel it's right if they did and let them have their say.

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But it shouldn't stop us from asking them to try to put it in though or should we just sit back. They're a business and in a business they want to please their customers or do their best to please us. I posted that link just so people would have the facts on what is going on with back up resources for it all. Nothing more nothing less. I still would like to see same sex marriage in the game but if we get told no that's not going to happen then we can try to petition it if petition fails then we have to accept it. It's not going to make me stop playing the game and it sure as all hell isn't going to stop me from playing games created by SE.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

However, homosexuality, while relatively innocuous among celebrities in Japan, can still be considered an oddity due to Japan's regimented and conservative social structure. Despite a lack of strong social stigma, homosexuality in men is commonly misconstrued with transgenderism and transvestism in Japan and open homosexuality is rare, due to conformity.[19]

From your link.

The point is because it is still kinda that "Pink Elephant" in the room for them, it would likely not happen to follow the American trend of acceptance. Unless they go outside of the norm and get it approved.

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I know what it says I read it that's why I posted again it shows all aspects of it the good the bad and the ugly. America isn't 100% behind gay marriages yet. From my knowledge now even all states approve of it only a couple. It's like everyone rallying trying to legalize marijuana. The only way that's approved is for medicinal purposes but if you get caught with it and don't have a script by god you're going to jail... now that's not the extremities that america goes to for people wanting to get married however, might I remind everyone about that college student who was gay and ended up killing himself for the harassment and embarrassment he received from a video tape that his room mate did? This happened within the last couple of years I believe in Virginia. Correct me if I'm wrong on that please.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

But it shouldn't stop us from asking them to try to put it in though or should we just sit back. They're a business and in a business they want to please their customers or do their best to please us. I posted that link just so people would have the facts on what is going on with back up resources for it all. Nothing more nothing less. I still would like to see same sex marriage in the game but if we get told no that's not going to happen then we can try to petition it if petition fails then we have to accept it. It's not going to make me stop playing the game and it sure as all hell isn't going to stop me from playing games created by SE.

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If a company says "No" the first time, then don't try to pester them into doing it, let SE have their views and accept them the moment they say "no" And if people have a problem with the word "No" and leave, then they're not as tolerant of a company's views as they would want someone else to be tolerant of theirs.

Trying to harass a company to implement same sex marriage is no different than a straight man harassing a homosexual to be hetero because of his views. If you don't like it, then what makes you think it's okay for you to do the same exact thing to a company with totally different views than your own?

Square Enix might be a "business" but government has power over what those businesses can and can't do, and in the end SE can't please everyone. Live and let live.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

If a company says "No" the first time, then don't try to pester them into doing it, let SE have their views and accept them the moment they say "no" And if people have a problem with the word "No" and leave, then they're not as tolerant of a company's views as they would want someone else to be tolerant of theirs.

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I have a question for you do you know or have ever worked in customer service? Second of all Do you think this game would still be around if SE just said NO we're not fixing anything in this game. If you don't like it leave? No they didn't they listened to us took what we said into consideration and made the changes that they could and even more. They have gone above and beyond what any company I have ever done customer support for would have. Free "beta" just until the beginning of this year, the legacy program. They're goal is to make us happy and make us stay with the game so they can get paid. That's what they are in for. I know this because I have to "kiss ass" to every customer I take when they call up complaining about something. I really wish sometimes I could just tell them to go f themselves but the company I work for believes in customer loyalty and that has what has kept the company going since the early 70's. And also yes we still get people who don't like our answers even when we try to placate them and they go above our heads so on and so forth.


quoted from the wiki site


In Japanese popular culture, LGBT men were often considered bishōnen, which translates as "beautiful boys." This was also tied to the success in Japan of comic books and animation with open and subtle LGBT characters. A select genre of adult pornographic Japanese games exist called H-games. This genre includes gay male and gay female subgenres.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I have a question for you do you know or have ever worked in customer service? Second of all Do you think this game would still be around if SE just said NO we're not fixing anything in this game. If you don't like it leave? No they didn't they listened to us took what we said into consideration and made the changes that they could and even more. They have gone above and beyond what any company I have ever done customer support for would have. Free "beta" just until the beginning of this year, the legacy program. They're goal is to make us happy and make us stay with the game so they can get paid. That's what they are in for. I know this because I have to "kiss ass" to every customer I take when they call up complaining about something. I really wish sometimes I could just tell them to go f themselves but the company I work for believes in customer loyatly and that has what has kept the company going since the early 70's. And also yes we still get people who don't like our answers even when we try to placate them and they go above our heads so on and so forth.

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There is a difference between "Fixing" and "Implementing" something against your beliefs because others "Demand" it.
You can say "No" and still find a way to make people happy. What is a few people lost to the millions that may come in to the game because SE said "No" to a few?

You act as though SE "OWES" you this, they don't. Again, you're going by the "America is almost accepting of this so Japan should do the same." You just can't go and try to force a company to do what YOU want because you live in a place accepting of it. Why do you think it's okay to force SE to do something YOU want but hate it when it happens to you?
What makes you think that's okay?

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

There is a difference between "Fixing" and "Implementing" something against your beliefs because others "Demand" it.
You can say "No" and still find a way to make people happy. What is a few people lost to the millions that may come in to the game because SE said "No" to a few?

You act as though SE "OWES" you this, they don't. Again, you're going by the "America is almost accepting of this so Japan should do the same."

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Uhmmmm no that's not my stand point at all. I'm speaking as someone who works in customer service and knows how a business thinks and acts. Again I said we can TRY to do a petition on it. There is nothing wrong with that and if they still refuse then like I we'll have to accept it. It's not harassing a company with asking to see something which from all the posts the majority want to see. There is no harm in a petition there is no harm in asking.

Nor did I say that SE owes us anything as a matter of fact I've stated they've gone above and beyond what any company would have done in their case.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Uhmmmm no that's not my stand point at all. I'm speaking as someone who works in customer service and knows how a business thinks and acts. Again I said we can TRY to do a petition on it. There is nothing wrong with that and if they still refuse then like I we'll have to accept it. It's not harassing a company with asking to see something which from all the posts the majority want to see. There is no harm in a petition there is no harm in asking.

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you ask for something.

Person says "NO."

You get upset and take it upon yourself to MAKE them give it to you because you won't take "NO" for an answer.

How is that not harassment and pushing your views on someone who clearly told you no the first time?

Reminds me of a rape victim. NO means NO.

All you have to do is be tolerant of their views as they would yours, how hard is that?

Once again I'll Quote myself and add something to it and leave it at that:

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Japan's views =/= America's Views (nor yours) and demanding someone to do something despite their views and beliefs is rather selfish.

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This is seriously the dumbest topic ever brought up on these forums, I hate whoever started it.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

you ask for something.

Person says "NO."

You get upset and take it upon yourself to MAKE them give it to you because you won't take "NO" for an answer.

How is that not harassment and pushing your views on someone who clearly told you no the first time?

Reminds me of a rape victim. NO means NO.

All you have to do is be tolerant of their views as they would yours, how hard is that?

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*shakes head sadly* kind of like how you're trying to push your idea onto me and make me in the wrong. that's just the same is it not? Again you're trying to say I'm forcing them a petition is not a force

Petition as per dictionary.com noun 1.a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit: a petition for clemency; a petition for the repeal of an unfair law.



2.a request made for something desired, especially a respectful or humble request, as to a superior or to one of those in authority; a supplication or prayer: a petition for aid; a petition to God for courage and strength.



3. something that is sought by request or entreaty: to receive one's full petition.



4. Law . an application for a court order or for some judicial action.



Where would we be today if woman didn't petition for their rights or for blacks like martin luther king make his petition with his dream that all men would be treated equally and fairly no matter race/color etc.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

*shakes head sadly* kind of like how you're trying to push your idea onto me and make me in the wrong. that's just the same is it not? Again you're trying to say I'm forcing them a petition is not a force

Petition as per dictionary.com noun 1.a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit: a petition for clemency; a petition for the repeal of an unfair law.



2.a request made for something desired, especially a respectful or humble request, as to a superior or to one of those in authority; a supplication or prayer: a petition for aid; a petition to God for courage and strength.



3. something that is sought by request or entreaty: to receive one's full petition.



4. Law . an application for a court order or for some judicial action.



Where would we be today if woman didn't petition for their rights or for blacks like martin luther king make his petition with his dream that all men would be treated equally and fairly no matter race/color etc.

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Again, your trying to force your views on a COMPANY WHOSE HOUSED IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY WITH ENTIRELY DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM YOUR OWN. <-- what is it about this that you don't understand?

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

Again, your trying to force your views on a COMPANY WHOSE HOUSED IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY WITH ENTIRELY DIFFERENT VIEWS FROM YOUR OWN. <-- what is it about this that you don't understand?

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I know that SE is a Japanese based company. I know the servers are in Japan. There is no need to start yelling cool off and start thinking a little before you get angry. I never once said force. You're the one who continually is saying force. I honestly do not understand why you're getting so upset over the fact that we would like same sex marriages in the game. I know everyone has different beliefs and different ideals, however you're trying to say I'm in the wrong with wanting everyone to be equal within the game. How is equality and fairness wrong? Do you even know the business guidelines that are in Japan. Actually, if a dev could they work more closely with japan. Could you inform us on what the legality for doing these things. We already have an esrb rating of T and we have a place where Mi'quote look and act like whores.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

In Japanese popular culture, LGBT men were often considered bishōnen, which translates as "beautiful boys." This was also tied to the success in Japan of comic books and animation with open and subtle LGBT characters.

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...06r7o1_500.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...7o2_r2_500.gif

Ahem.. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Mudd

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...06r7o1_500.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...7o2_r2_500.gif

Ahem.. Carry on.

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That is great. *applauds* lol

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Originally Posted by Rannie

I know that SE is a Japanese based company. I know the servers are in Japan. There is no need to start yelling cool off and start thinking a little before you get angry. I never once said force. You're the one who continually is saying force. I honestly do not understand why you're getting so upset over the fact that we would like same sex marriages in the game. I know everyone has different beliefs and different ideals, however you're trying to say I'm in the wrong with wanting everyone to be equal within the game. How is equality and fairness wrong? Do you even know the business guidelines that are in Japan. Actually, if a dev could they work more closely with japan. Could you inform us on what the legality for doing these things. We already have an esrb rating of T and we have a place where Mi'quote look and act like whores.

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You know SE is based in Japan yet you keep referencing things that happened in America as if they're some sort of major thing Japan should be concerned about. (Japan isn't America)

There is nothing wrong with equality and fairness but if a company rejects one little demand of same sex marriages, then who are you to go up in arms over their decision and throw up a petition just because they went with their beliefs?

As for business in Japan, they have laws (bans actually) on discrimination regarding sexual orientation (and that's it), homosexuals in Japan still conceal their sexuality there and marry the opposite sex.

As for a game where miqo'te act like whores, you must be unaware of Japan's Red Light District, where they're "Whores" but hold themselves up to a certain standard, but what they portray in the english version of FFXIV doesn't reflect the reality in Japan, you're forgetting that final fantasy is just that FANTASY, and there is a huge difference between a promiscuous-like race in a game, and the real world of Japan.

Now, if SE said no and continued to reject your views on same-sex marriage, would you make SE out to be the bad guy in the end because they followed their views and not yours?

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

You know SE is based in Japan yet you keep referencing things that happened in America as if they're some sort of major thing Japan should be concerned about. (Japan isn't America)

There is nothing wrong with equality and fairness but if a company rejects one little demand of same sex marriages, then who are you to go up in arms over their decision and throw up a petition just because they went with their beliefs?

As for business in Japan, they have laws (bans actually) on discrimination regarding sexual orientation (and that's it), homosexuals in Japan still conceal their sexuality there and marry the opposite sex.

As for a game where miqo'te act like whores, you must be unaware of Japan's Red Light District, where they're "Whores" but hold themselves up to a certain standard, but what they portray in the english version of FFXIV doesn't reflect the reality in Japan.

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SO what if I refer to things in America. You do as well. You keep saying America has looser views on homosexuality. In reality they still don't I ask you to go anywhere in the southern states of america and tell them you're gay. They'll mostly likely run you out of town because of being deeply religious. Same goes with some places in Northern America as well.

Again you're saying I'm going to go up in arms over it. No I said we, not I, (the ones who would like to have it implemented) could try to petition they're rejection of it. I never said I'd go over there and force them to do it. That's just plain stupid.

As to the whores I was refering to the miquote in the miner's guild who hit on you and tell you they can do it. SE America translated it and maybe did some generalization of it however but still I didn't say it was wrong. I also know about Geisha's and the red light district of Japan.

The laws may be about the human beings themselves but that doesn't stop the japanese companies from making hentai and ecchi games invovling gay and lesbian couples. A lot of gays and lesbians still hide their preferences and marry opposite sex here in America as well. America isn't as liberal as most people think it is. Yes we have some freedom but people still can live in fear of being harmed or humiliated by friends family and coworkers just by them saying they're gay.

I ask that a dev again tell us exactly what the guide lines are for Japan on this if they would be so kind to interject since they correspond with their japanese counter part better than we can.

As facepalm-inducing as Rannie and Aster's verbal tennis game is, I think SE should just take the high road and not implement a marriage system, but give us the tools to host weddings entirely on our own. You can then have hetero weddings, gay weddings, cross-faction weddings and so on without pissing anyone off or making anyone feel left out.

Just give us background and source material to work with. I'm talking ring engraving abilities for Goldsmiths, wedding dress, tuxedo, formal dress, formal suit recipies for tailors, Lodestone articles explaining how weddings are run in the three nations (+ Ishgard, too), different types of weddings vows (based on weapon type or job like FFXI does) and so on.

I've attended plenty of weddings in WoW (of all kinds), and it's worked like a charm so...why not here as well? I mean, who knows? It might even give birth to a "Bridezillas: FFXIV Edition" machinima video somewhere down the line.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

As facepalm-inducing as Rannie and Aster's verbal tennis game is, I think SE should just take the high road and not implement a marriage system, but give us the tools to host weddings entirely on our own. You can then have hetero weddings, gay weddings, corss-faction weddings and so on without pissing anyone off or making anyone feel left out. :O

I've attended plenty of weddings in WoW (of all kinds), and it's worked like a charm so...why not here as well?

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I agree with the face palming and thanks for the laugh on it too ^_^

What I need from both of you is to step back and take a breather, reread some of the posts and take in what yourselves have said and what the others have said. You both keep pushing ideology at each other backed by facts but neither still unnecessarily going at each others throats. I get what you both are saying Aster is just pointing out the differences in laws and culture and Rannie is pointing out pushing a petition though know that a petition wouldn't effect anything because laws are laws and rules are rules. Now if they got it approved on their end somehow that is a different story altogether.

As Duelle and I have said in previous posts I would like to see some recipes for formal uniforms added and autographs for gear so we can make rings etc with namesakes engraved. Then it left up to the players own devices from that point on, would make it more enjoyable also would show how many people are really interested in a marriage system in the game, also you could do same sex marriages if you wanted and it wouldn't be breaking any rules etc.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

What I need from both of you.

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http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/546/13c...ers-91ff05.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

What I need from both of you is to step back and take a breather, reread some of the posts and take in what yourselves have said and what the others have said. You both keep pushing ideology at each other backed by facts but neither still unnecessarily going at each others throats. I get what you both are saying Aster is just pointing out the differences in laws and culture and Rannie is pointing out pushing a petition though know that a petition wouldn't effect anything because laws are laws and rules are rules. Now if they got it approved on their end somehow that is a different story altogether.

As Duelle and I have said in previous posts I would like to see some recipes for formal uniforms added and autographs for gear so we can make rings etc with namesakes engraved. Then it left up to the players own devices from that point on, would make it more enjoyable also would show how many people are really interested in a marriage system in the game, also you could do same sex marriages if you wanted and it wouldn't be breaking any rules etc.

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I thank you for your consideration. I'm not angry in any retrospect of the matter. ^_^ Like I kept saying whatever they want to do they do. I understand everything she's saying (and please don't take this post as me trying to argue against you or anything in that matter. I'm really not.) And I really have no hard feelings at all against aster. Maybe just a hint of confusion as to why she keeps thinking I'm trying to force it but that's it. Its why I keep saying that I'm not trying to force. =)

Autographed items would be awesome to do and all that other stuff too tired to type all of it out it's half past 2 am lol... and the only thing sustaining me is a glass of watermelon cherry kool aid and me trying to work with my yahoo account to change a stupid primary email address >.< gotta log into two web browsers for it on different devices. Technology, you gotta love it.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/546/13c...ers-91ff05.jpg

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I choked on kool aid with that thanks =P ROFL

Doesn't really matter to me where the company is, if they are catering to multiple countries and audiences..then they have to take ALL into consideration..not just their own. :o But yeah this is silly, I am sure they will find some kind of fair balance and compromise. Probably let us just do our own thing and run our own weddings. :o

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

As Duelle and I have said in previous posts I would like to see some recipes for formal uniforms added and autographs for gear so we can make rings etc with namesakes engraved. Then it left up to the players own devices from that point on, would make it more enjoyable also would show how many people are really interested in a marriage system in the game, also you could do same sex marriages if you wanted and it wouldn't be breaking any rules etc.

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Lore is also important at least to provide some set of guidelines. XIV doesn't have the massive class backgrounds like WoW does (which has roots in the real time strategy Warcraft games, as opposed to XIV which is standalone).

Even then we had to get a little creative from time to time. The cross-faction wedding I once attended had a druid of each faction presiding over the ceremony to overcome the forced language barrier, and the vows were written along the lines of how Night Elf and Tauren societies seem to think based on lore and previous games (bride was a night elf druid, groom was a tauren druid).

We'd need info to help further define the mindset from each city state (partially done so far but more info is needed), along with some racial mindsets where applicable. Help establish traditions as well as establish who is in charge of ceremonies (i'd imagine Conjurers in Gridania, while Thaumaturges in Uldah, and possible Arcanists in Limsa). There's a lot of background that's really needed, and as willing as I am to see players help develop it, in the end it is a task for the writers behind the game's world.

So now, what about the honey moon? In the case we actually are allowed same-sex marriage, every couples should be equal before the honey moon too! :D