Square Enix, it's time to come clean about your plans for the future

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

long post

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True but he's also someone who enjoys playing video games and know what different types of players are generally looking for. That doesn't mean he's got the ability to meet everyone's expectations for a game.

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https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/...t-la-noire.jpg

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/...t-la-noire.jpg

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Doubt if you want. The success of the game says he's doing something right even if a tiny group of forum posters are pouting because the game isn't catering to what they want.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Doubt if you want. The success of the game says he's doing something right even if a tiny group of forum posters are pouting because the game isn't catering to what they want.

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and an even tinier group of forum posters are pouting because that tiny group of forum posters represent the majority of players.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Doubt if you want. The success of the game says he's doing something right even if a tiny group of forum posters are pouting because the game isn't catering to what they want.

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You mean the success that happened after the WoW exodus (and all of those players or at least a big majority of them left because... they got bored due to the lack of content which made the game basically go back to pre wow-exodus numbers ) ?

Have always been somewhat curious regarding how many new players started playing at/around the same time as the WoW exodus but actually had nothing to do with said exodus.

I started playing around that time and certainly fell victim to the high login queue times, particularly since I was on a free trial account at the time (in fact, I found I couldn't log in more often than not) but was completely unaware of the WoW exodus - at least until a friend made me aware of what had occurred.

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Originally Posted by Koros

and an even tinier group of forum posters are pouting because that tiny group of forum posters represent the majority of players.

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Proof is in the pudding. Get them to quit.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

You mean the success that happened after the WoW exodus (and all of those players or at least a big majority of them left because... they got bored due to the lack of content which made the game basically go back to pre wow-exodus numbers ) ?

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How many of them have permanently left instead of doing what YoshiP encourages players to do - play other games while waiting for more content to be released?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Have always been somewhat curious regarding how many new players started playing at/around the same time as the WoW exodus but actually had nothing to do with said exodus.

I started playing around that time and certainly fell victim to the high login queue times, particularly since I was on a free trial account at the time (in fact, I found I couldn't log in more often than not) but was completely unaware of the WoW exodus - at least until a friend made me aware of what had occurred.

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Difficult to say. Lucky Bancho has their unofficial census but it's limited to character over level 60. Not everyone is going to be leveling at the same pace. You're also going to end up with a lot of low level alt characters mixed in with the character belonging to new players.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Proof is in the pudding. Get them to quit.


How many of them have permanently left instead of doing what YoshiP encourages players to do - play other games while waiting for more content to be released?

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A lot have, didnt you see the amount of auto demos that happened in the last wave which was the recent few months on EU ? auto demo literally ravaged the ward I have on sagi and removed not only 1, 2 or 3 plots but 15 plots opened, and that's in shirogane, including mediums and smalls and even a large

Those are people that have quit this game, stop being blind.

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Originally Posted by Koros

and an even tinier group of forum posters are pouting because that tiny group of forum posters represent the majority of players.

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https://i.imgur.com/9Ki6Tj6.png

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

https://i.imgur.com/9Ki6Tj6.png

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You mean just like Jojoya's post ?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Doubt if you want. The success of the game says he's doing something right even if a tiny group of forum posters are pouting because the game isn't catering to what they want.

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Where is the evidence ?

I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

YOU ARE IN THE MINORITAH

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https://i.imgur.com/9Ki6Tj6.png

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

You mean just like Jojoya's post ?



Where is the evidence ?

I'll wait.

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Well, to be honest, like any posts that makes claims without providing anything to support those claims really.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

A lot have, didnt you see the amount of auto demos that happened in the last wave which was the recent few months on EU ? auto demo literally ravaged the ward I have on sagi and removed not only 1, 2 or 3 plots but 15 plots opened, and that's in shirogane, including mediums and smalls and even a large

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6899 in whole EU got demolished in the first wave, 4953 in second wave to be exact.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

A lot have, didnt you see the amount of auto demos that happened in the last wave which was the recent few months on EU ? auto demo literally ravaged the ward I have on sagi and removed not only 1, 2 or 3 plots but 15 plots opened, and that's in shirogane, including mediums and smalls and even a large

Those are people that have quit this game, stop being blind.

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I never said that there aren't players quitting the game.

I told Koros to prove that the majority of players are pouting that the game isn't catering to them by getting them all to quit.

Those demolitions aren't proof of a majority of anything when what demo'd wasn't a majority of the houses that are occupied - or are you going to try to argue that most of the remaining house owners are multi-house owners so the owned plots represent a tiny number of players. We both know better unless you have a lot more accounts for houses than you've hinted at. Don't forget that some of those houses were abandoned all the way back in 6.0 but didn't demo sooner because of demolition suspension.

Now I can look at the Lucky Bancho census, probably the closest we can get to a fairly accurate picture of active players (though his numbers are based on characters and not unique accounts).

Have active characters decreased this year? Yes.

Is the drop enough to represent a majority? No.

Are there still more active characters than there were when the second WoW exodus (which was the big one) started in July 2021? Most definitely.

Believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. But you probably should stop accusing others of being blind when what information we have available to use does not support your claims that everyone who came from WoW has quit FFXIV and gone back to WoW.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

You mean just like Jojoya's post ?



Where is the evidence ?

I'll wait.

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The evidence of which?

That the game has been successful? The game is still operating a decade later with a new expansion on the way. If it wasn't a success, Square Enix would have long since pulled the plug and booted YoshiP off the Board of Directors like he has asked to be.

That a tiny group of forum posters is pouting over the game not catering to them? Read all the doom threads and replies that have been posted in the past few weeks.

Your move.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

6899 in whole EU got demolished in the first wave, 4953 in second wave to be exact.

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So about 12,000? It's a fair number but there are over 120,000 plots in EU. Last time I checked, 10% isn't a majority of anything.

kupo kupo KUPO kupo

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Originally Posted by Koros

kupo kupo KUPO kupo

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No, no. It's kuPO.

Silly Koros.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So about 12,000? It's a fair number but there are over 120,000 plots in EU. Last time I checked, 10% isn't a majority of anything.

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Who said anything about the "MAJORITAH"? I swear some people just throw this "argument" everywhere and hope it sticks.

And if you want to use majority argument for player drop off? Well, if majority of players leave, then it's way, way too late to do anything. Don't know if you're trying to imply that everything is fine and dandy as long as drop isn't over half the playerbase.

jojoya thinks all wow refugees owned a housing plot.
jojoya, in statistics you can use house demolitions and make a logics-based conclusion, that 12,000 demolished plots translates to double or triple that of wow refugees who didn't own a house. Specially considering that to get a house it requires a deeper level of commitment to the game.

This is why forum concerns shouldn't be taken as "only the few post on forums," the forum also represents those who quit the game quietly, they just didn't bother expressing it. This is why school forum, community forum, and such exist in real life. It's not a "oooh that's only those small amount of people, everyone else outside the forum is having fun."

No. You are not the voice of a silent majority. No.

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Originally Posted by LinaAkayomi

Let me get ready for this thread
https://media.tenor.com/AohOo-xrtKYA...n-foil-hat.gif

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Pass me one of those please. Lol

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

given the forums and the doom patrol which you are part of...

the logic is fairly sound.

the reality is, anything in development they are unlikely to talk about until its in a fit state to talk about. nor are they under any obligation to us to talk about other future projects.

complying with unrealistic demands on the english forums is unlikely to be part of the overall business strategy, not matter how much kicking and screaming and threatening to hold your breath there is. (I doubt they would do it even on the Japanese forums but you are always welcome to try there too)

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I feel modern day devs tripe A and Indie have learned to talk when you have something truly worth talking about..

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Originally Posted by Deo14

Who said anything about the "MAJORITAH"? I swear some people just throw this "argument" everywhere and hope it sticks.

And if you want to use majority argument for player drop off? Well, if majority of players leave, then it's way, way too late to do anything. Don't know if you're trying to imply that everything is fine and dandy as long as drop isn't over half the playerbase.

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Koros was talking about a majority.

Stormpeaks picked up on it and decided that housing demolition was proof of the majority. You just happened to offer up the numbers that Stormpeaks didn't so I quoted you for those numbers.

Everything is fine and dandy for the game as long as enough players stay subbed for SE to keep the servers running and adding new content.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

jojoya thinks all wow refugees owned a housing plot.

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No, I don't.

I also don't think they mostly stuck around. I'd be surprised if more than 30% are still playing FFXIV.

But just as house owners are more committed to FFXIV, the WoW refugees didn't come to commit to FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama. As that died out, they slowly disappeared. Their loss isn't significant because of that lack of commitment.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

jojoya, in statistics you can use house demolitions and make a logics-based conclusion, that 12,000 demolished plots translates to double or triple that of wow refugees who didn't own a house. Specially considering that to get a house it requires a deeper level of commitment to the game.

This is why forum concerns shouldn't be taken as "only the few post on forums," the forum also represents those who quit the game quietly, they just didn't bother expressing it. This is why school forum, community forum, and such exist in real life. It's not a "oooh that's only those small amount of people, everyone else outside the forum is having fun."

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That's fine but you also need to take into account the periods that demolition was suspended and what the normal housing churn is. When demolition isn't suspended, there's almost always a small number of houses getting demo'd on each world.

If it was 12,000 players in a single month, that would be alarming.

Instead it represents 7,000 players that quit between Dec 2021 and January 2023, then another 5,000 players that quit between February 2023 and July 2023 (the two periods when demolition was suspended). Play with the numbers (taking into account that 4 of the worlds opened July 2022 and their plots aren't fully occupied) and you get about 13 demolitions per week per world in the first wave and 15 demolitions per week per world in the second wave.

How much is normal churn, and how much can be linked directly to current discontent?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

WoW refugees didn't come to commit to FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama. As that died out, they slowly disappeared. Their loss isn't significant because of that lack of commitment.

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Bold statement; you don't know the full breakdown of that situation. Nor is the housing the only situation exposing xiv's terrible endgame and/or lack of entertainment past msq https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...half-a-year-in

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Pass me one of those please. Lol

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I want one to.
Those look neat, No Cap

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Bold statement; you don't know the full breakdown of that situation. Nor is the housing the only situation exposing xiv's terrible endgame and/or lack of entertainment past msq https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...half-a-year-in

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Do you have the full breakdown of that situation?

You're linking a Titanmen troll thread a Steam chart that only represents Steam users. As I pointed out elsewhere, if you only go by Steam activity you would swear I only play Cities: Skylines and Darkest Dungeon. It has no record of my FFXIV activity because I don't play the game through Steam. How many others don't play through Steam, whether PC, Mac or PS 4/5?

We're all just guessing here what is going on within the entire player base. Have you stopped to consider that not everyone plays this game solely for end game content because the game isn't designed to funnel everyone into endgame as fast as possible unlike some other games such as WoW? End game has never been FFXIV's strong suit not does it need to be for this game to be successful.

We get it. You're unhappy.

Then why are you still subbed? Why pay to get the privilege of what is a miserable experience in your eyes? Why not take a break, go play the games that do meet your standards and have a good time instead?

What is in your personal best interests?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Do you have the full breakdown of that situation?

You're linking a Titanmen troll thread a Steam chart that only represents Steam users. As I pointed out elsewhere, if you only go by Steam activity you would swear I only play Cities: Skylines and Darkest Dungeon. It has no record of my FFXIV activity because I don't play the game through Steam. How many others don't play through Steam, whether PC, Mac or PS 4/5?

We're all just guessing here what is going on within the entire player base. Have you stopped to consider that not everyone plays this game solely for end game content because the game isn't designed to funnel everyone into endgame as fast as possible unlike some other games such as WoW? End game has never been FFXIV's strong suit not does it need to be for this game to be successful.

We get it. You're unhappy.

Then why are you still subbed? Why pay to get the privilege of what is a miserable experience in your eyes? Why not take a break, go play the games that do meet your standards and have a good time instead?

What is in your personal best interests?

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Guess you didn't read my post. I'm providing additional sources of the wow refugees just leaving the heck out of ffxiv after they found out the game was a marketing trap.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Guess you didn't read my post. I'm providing additional sources of the wow refugees just leaving the heck out of ffxiv after they found out the game was a marketing trap.

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I did look at the post. It's a Titanmen troll thread. What's even funnier is that it's over a year old. Did you thinking digging up a year old thread with year old information from a troll was going to impress anyone?

If you had read what I posted, you would have seen me say I'd be surprised if more than 30% of the WoW refugees were still here because they didn't come to play FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama where everyone was thumbing their noses at Blizzard.

No one in their right minds would expect most WoW players to stick around here because it is designed very differently. I've still got friends from WoW that I would never recommend this game to because they dislike story and are very end game focused. It is not the right game for them. It is the right game for some of my other WoW friends. They're still very happily playing FFXIV after more than a year.

Again, why are you here if the game has a terrible end game and lack of entertainment? It's certainly not going to change before 7.0 and it may not change even then.

Continuing to pay your subscription won't change anything. You're still going to be unhappy for at least another 10 months. That's USD 140-150 down the drain.

Cancelling your subscription will save you some money and break whatever is tying you to the game. You can use the money to play other games that meet your standards where FFXIV doesn't.

Do that. Have your friends who feel the same way about the game do it as well. If you want SE to sit up and take notice about how unhappy some of you are with the current state of the game, you're going to have to stop giving them money. It's only when a huge number of players start unsubscribing at the same time that the gaming corporations will sit up and take notice.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I did look at the post. It's a Titanmen troll thread. What's even funnier is that it's over a year old. Did you thinking digging up a year old thread with year old information from a troll was going to impress anyone?

If you had read what I posted, you would have seen me say I'd be surprised if more than 30% of the WoW refugees were still here because they didn't come to play FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama where everyone was thumbing their noses at Blizzard.

No one in their right minds would expect most WoW players to stick around here because it is designed very differently. I've still got friends from WoW that I would never recommend this game to because they dislike story and are very end game focused. It is not the right game for them. It is the right game for some of my other WoW friends. They're still very happily playing FFXIV after more than a year.

Again, why are you here if the game has a terrible end game and lack of entertainment? It's certainly not going to change before 7.0 and it may not change even then.

Continuing to pay your subscription won't change anything. You're still going to be unhappy for at least another 10 months. That's USD 140-150 down the drain.

Cancelling your subscription will save you some money and break whatever is tying you to the game. You can use the money to play other games that meet your standards where FFXIV doesn't.

Do that. Have your friends who feel the same way about the game do it as well. If you want SE to sit up and take notice about how unhappy some of you are with the current state of the game, you're going to have to stop giving them money. It's only when a huge number of players start unsubscribing at the same time that the gaming corporations will sit up and take notice.

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You know you've lost the argument when you have to resort to "unsub" as your argument.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I did look at the post. It's a Titanmen troll thread. What's even funnier is that it's over a year old. Did you thinking digging up a year old thread with year old information from a troll was going to impress anyone?

If you had read what I posted, you would have seen me say I'd be surprised if more than 30% of the WoW refugees were still here because they didn't come to play FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama where everyone was thumbing their noses at Blizzard.

No one in their right minds would expect most WoW players to stick around here because it is designed very differently. I've still got friends from WoW that I would never recommend this game to because they dislike story and are very end game focused. It is not the right game for them. It is the right game for some of my other WoW friends. They're still very happily playing FFXIV after more than a year.

Again, why are you here if the game has a terrible end game and lack of entertainment? It's certainly not going to change before 7.0 and it may not change even then.

Continuing to pay your subscription won't change anything. You're still going to be unhappy for at least another 10 months. That's USD 140-150 down the drain.

Cancelling your subscription will save you some money and break whatever is tying you to the game. You can use the money to play other games that meet your standards where FFXIV doesn't.

Do that. Have your friends who feel the same way about the game do it as well. If you want SE to sit up and take notice about how unhappy some of you are with the current state of the game, you're going to have to stop giving them money. It's only when a huge number of players start unsubscribing at the same time that the gaming corporations will sit up and take notice.

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I love how yall will just say "it's a titanmen troll thread" as if anything the dude says actually has no value whatsoever, yet he provides evidence, something you dont give yourself.

It's all "blah blah blah" "just quit" on your end, but he provided evidence of his claim.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

You know you've the argument when you have to resort to "unsub" as your argument.

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That's Jojoya for you, spending their entire time telling anyone with any negative comment to just unsub and quit the game entirely.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

I love how yall will just say "it's a titanmen troll thread" as if anything the dude says actually has no value whatsoever, yet he provides evidence, something you dont give yourself.

It's all "blah blah blah" "just quit" on your end, but he provided evidence of his claim.



That's Jojoya for you, spending their entire time telling anyone with any negative comment to just unsub and quit the game entirely.

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Evidence of what? WoW refugees leaving the game over a year ago after the streamer drama faded away?

Again, so what? They were never going to stay.

Here, have some evidence that the population is higher now than it was before the WoW exodus began.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=627409761

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They were never going to stay.

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I see we have shifted the goalpost so far it's now on Mars.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I did look at the post. It's a Titanmen troll thread. What's even funnier is that it's over a year old. Did you thinking digging up a year old thread with year old information from a troll was going to impress anyone?

If you had read what I posted, you would have seen me say I'd be surprised if more than 30% of the WoW refugees were still here because they didn't come to play FFXIV. They came for the streamer drama where everyone was thumbing their noses at Blizzard.

No one in their right minds would expect most WoW players to stick around here because it is designed very differently. I've still got friends from WoW that I would never recommend this game to because they dislike story and are very end game focused. It is not the right game for them. It is the right game for some of my other WoW friends. They're still very happily playing FFXIV after more than a year.

Again, why are you here if the game has a terrible end game and lack of entertainment? It's certainly not going to change before 7.0 and it may not change even then.

Continuing to pay your subscription won't change anything. You're still going to be unhappy for at least another 10 months. That's USD 140-150 down the drain.

Cancelling your subscription will save you some money and break whatever is tying you to the game. You can use the money to play other games that meet your standards where FFXIV doesn't.

Do that. Have your friends who feel the same way about the game do it as well. If you want SE to sit up and take notice about how unhappy some of you are with the current state of the game, you're going to have to stop giving them money. It's only when a huge number of players start unsubscribing at the same time that the gaming corporations will sit up and take notice.

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Keep fighting the good fight, I'm not entirely sure brick walls can be reasoned with though.

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Originally Posted by Aaros

I see we have shifted the goalpost so far it's now on Mars.

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There never was a goalpost, it was always a muddy quagmire.

All I've done is given them number data for the past several years that they can play with to their heart's content.

There's no reason to keep replying at this point because they like living in that quagmire.

In the meantime, I'm having fun with the game and listening to friends complaining about random stuff as they try to spawn Okina while I'm gathering on my Island Sanctuary. I would have gone to help them but they already had all the caves covered.

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Originally Posted by Minifie

Keep fighting the good fight, I'm not entirely sure brick walls can be reasoned with though.

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In the end, it's their choice to be miserable. I'm going back to having a good time.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There never was a goalpost, it was always a muddy quagmire.

All I've done is given them number data for the past several years that they can play with to their heart's content.

There's no reason to keep replying at this point because they like living in that quagmire.

In the meantime, I'm having fun with the game and listening to friends complaining about random stuff as they try to spawn Okina while I'm gathering on my Island Sanctuary. I would have gone to help them but they already had all the caves covered.


In the end, it's their choice to be miserable. I'm going back to having a good time.

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You imply people complaining about certain things in the game = them being miserable

what a terrible take to have, but sure you can die on that hill I guess ?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

If you're going to choose not to believe one statement, why would any other statement be any more believable?

Why bother listening to anything they have to say if you're just going to jump to your own conclusions?

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Maybe because some people actually have a brain and can see through corpo BS.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

How do you know these things? Are you HR? You have someone on the inside? LOL

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Also, just so hilarious that FF14 white knights deny obvious extrapolations until it literally happens.

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Originally Posted by bic12

Also, just so hilarious that FF14 white knights deny obvious extrapolations until it literally happens.

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Bic are you okay? You're screaming at ghosts here.

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Originally Posted by bic12

Maybe because some people actually have a brain and can see through corpo BS.

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Did it take you 2 years to come up with that reply

Oh long forgotten and dead thread,
One that once been lost to the internet ages,
Arise, arise, from numerous pages deep and unread,
Reanimate and return to cause bewilderment onto others

Wolololo be resurrected thread and join your brethren in undeath wolololo.

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Originally Posted by bic12

Also, just so hilarious that FF14 white knights deny obvious extrapolations until it literally happens.

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Also amusing that you feel the need to resurrect old threads in this manner.