Let's talk about bot housing business

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I honestly just want to nuke wards and introduce full instanced housing.

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No thank you. You can have your instanced housing on the island when it comes.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

No thank you. You can have your instanced housing on the island when it comes.

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Technically I don't need instanced housing. I have 3 houses. But I personally don't enjoy super empty wards cuz it's a bunch of dead space that you can't customize.

All wards do is encourage RMT which you seem pretty eager to defend/deny. You do you tho.

Housing Wards are Liminal Spaces.

Especially if you go stroll the ones in Dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Or maybe just maybe I dont want to be in a dead instanced ward, knowing I am the only one there and that everything else is prebuilt fabricated just to make it seem like there is somebody there, while in fact its empty.

You might not care, some people like me do care to have actual neighbors, even if they are a subfarm or a "normal" house, I like to have people around me, even if sometimes they have horrible taste (hello gingerbread houses,paissas,carbuncles,chocobos)

This is an MMORPG, we dont need everything instanced, and housing even less.

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In your case, it would be one neighbour with like 20 empty houses around you, with the rest of the ward being filled by empty sub farmers - The stormpeaks dream ward.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Or maybe just maybe I dont want to be in a dead instanced ward, knowing I am the only one there and that everything else is prebuilt fabricated just to make it seem like there is somebody there, while in fact its empty.

You might not care, some people like me do care to have actual neighbors, even if they are a subfarm or a "normal" house, I like to have people around me, even if sometimes they have horrible taste (hello gingerbread houses,paissas,carbuncles,chocobos)

This is an MMORPG, we dont need everything instanced, and housing even less.

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And pretty much every other MMORPG has instanced housing but it didn't make them feel less like an MMORPG. Not sure where you are getting at here.

Also, where is your proof that there isn't RMT in housing besides "I think so"? There is websites dedicated to selling houses for real money. And moreover, do you really think that extremely limited housing that is tied to the most lucrative activity in the game where entire wards are taken by one person and left empty aren't being used by RMT? You are smarter than that.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

And pretty much every other MMORPG has instanced housing but it didn't make them feel less like an MMORPG. Not sure where you are getting at here.

Also, where is your proof that there isn't RMT in housing besides "I think so"? There is websites dedicated to selling houses for real money. And moreover, do you really think that extremely limited housing that is tied to the most lucrative activity in the game where entire wards are taken by one person and left empty aren't being used by RMT? You are smarter than that.

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"extremely limited housing"

*laughs in 19 houses open in my personal ward on sagi*

on NA ? Sure, on EU we're chilling pretty much, there is housing for everyone, that's an NA issue, that's also why they opened Dynamis, its housing galore there as well, literally thousands of plots are open but no one wants them, that's on them and not on SE.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

And pretty much every other MMORPG has instanced housing but it didn't make them feel less like an MMORPG. Not sure where you are getting at here.

Also, where is your proof that there isn't RMT in housing besides "I think so"? There is websites dedicated to selling houses for real money. And moreover, do you really think that extremely limited housing that is tied to the most lucrative activity in the game where entire wards are taken by one person and left empty aren't being used by RMT? You are smarter than that.

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No he is not

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

"extremely limited housing"

*laughs in 19 houses open in my personal ward on sagi*

on NA ? Sure, on EU we're chilling pretty much, there is housing for everyone, that's an NA issue, that's also why they opened Dynamis, its housing galore there as well, literally thousands of plots are open but no one wants them, that's on them and not on SE.

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Every single non-Dynamis NA server has five times the amount of people on Sagittarius (one of the smallest English speaking servers in the whole game LOL). I guess now that makes sense once you look at it that way. Doesn't affect you so its not a problem.

Dynamis has the problem of being introduced far too late into the game's lifecycle where it's not easy for people to pick up and move especially for raiders and crafters who get severed from their raid buffs and active MBs. People want houses, but may not want to deal with a whole ghost of a datacenter. It is an MMORPG after all. And when they eventually when they make Dynamis more attractive, it's going to fill up immediately. 32,000 houses aren't going to support the sheer size of NA (we have 3 datacenters that are constantly in flux of being congested) + bots, multihouse owners, and FCs taking up a nonzero sum of them.

I'm shocked that they're trying to sell houses for $600! On our own server! Thats ridiculous!

https://imgur.com/a/baYv1qc

Remember, nothing at all to see here folks! We're definetely not buying up wards to resell them! Not at all!

Now I doubt anyone is actually Going to pay for the list prices of those houses. Seems absurd to me, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just scamming people out of hundreds of dollars, or millions of gil. The 30 day FC rule has done little to curb the illicit trading. They've clearly been doing this operation, in the public eye for years without getting slapped with C&D, or much of any account penalties.

Reposting for visibility because we are on a new page

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Every single non-Dynamis NA server has five times the amount of people on Sagittarius (one of the smallest English speaking servers in the whole game LOL). I guess now that makes sense once you look at it that way. Doesn't affect you so its not a problem.

Dynamis has the problem of being introduced far too late into the game's lifecycle where it's not easy for people to pick up and move especially for raiders and crafters who get severed from their raid buffs and active MBs. People want houses, but may not want to deal with a whole ghost of a datacenter. It is an MMORPG after all. And when they eventually when they make Dynamis more attractive, it's going to fill up immediately. 32,000 houses aren't going to support the sheer size of NA (we have 3 datacenters that are constantly in flux of being congested) + bots, multihouse owners, and FCs taking up a nonzero sum of them.

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And that's why Dynamis is open, a few months back, I made a char on NA on Sargatanas, couldnt get a house, moved to Dynamis, got myself a comfy small shiro for the alt I was doing content with on NA, I had no issues, and even now there's still more than enough for everyone, also the "ghost of a DC" is not an excuse anymore thanks to DC travel, that's what people do, have you seen how many people from Dynamis are on Aether or the other NA DC's ? They dont seem to mind, when they want to, they go back to their chill house on dynamis, I really need to put emphasis on the fact DC travel is a thing, you can literally go on Dynamis to get a nice cozy house, and then go back to your old friends on other DC's in the case they didnt follow you there, discord is also a thing to keep in contact, there's no excuse really, people just prefer to bang their heads agaisnt a wall by bidding on houses with 200+ bids than to just move or take a smaller plot or in a different area such as goblet or empy, that's on the players once again, not on SE.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Reposting for visibility because we are on a new page



And that's why Dynamis is open, a few months back, I made a char on NA on Sargatanas, couldnt get a house, moved to Dynamis, got myself a comfy small shiro for the alt I was doing content with on NA, I had no issues, and even now there's still more than enough for everyone, also the "ghost of a DC" is not an excuse anymore thanks to DC travel, that's what people do, have you seen how many people from Dynamis are on Aether or the other NA DC's ? They dont seem to mind, when they want to, they go back to their chill house on dynamis, I really need to put emphasis on the fact DC travel is a thing, you can literally go on Dynamis to get a nice cozy house, and then go back to your old friends on other DC's in the case they didnt follow you there, discord is also a thing to keep in contact, there's no excuse really, people just prefer to bang their heads agaisnt a wall by bidding on houses with 200+ bids than to just move or take a smaller plot or in a different area such as goblet or empy, that's on the players once again, not on SE.

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I thought it was to address server congestion issues. The housing was a secondary bonus! But you seem to be missing that it's not all bright and cheery moving to Dynamis! A lot of FC's don't keep up on Discord! A lot of their members aren't on Discord! You miss out on the community of people and friends that you have, and a CWLS just isn't the same! It's a much lonelier experience than you might think moving from Crystal to Dynamis, or any of the other mega big servers!

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Originally Posted by Archeron

https://imgur.com/a/baYv1qc

Remember, nothing at all to see here folks! We're definetely not buying up wards to resell them! Not at all!

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I didn't see anyone selling wards in what you linked. Just individual mediums and mansions on different (mostly NA) servers and housing districts. If someone buys up a ward, that includes a lot of smalls, and they aren't being sold. I still think you're confusing submarine farmers who cheekily use the same tag on neighboring plots with RMT sellers who are selling the best tier plots that are scattered around in different wards.

Nothing stops you from reporting what you see on those websites, since RMT is against the rules. SE can find out if a fc master transfer occurred within the fc who owns the plot.

PS. Also not seeing the Sagittarius (EU) houses the OP posted screenshots of and said were being sold for thousands of dollars.

Just remove salvage and don't allow FC leadership change if the FC has a house, there ez RMT fix.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I didn't see anyone selling wards in what you linked. Just individual mediums and mansions on different (mostly NA) servers and housing districts. If someone buys up a ward, that includes a lot of smalls, and they aren't being sold. I still think you're confusing submarine farmers who cheekily use the same tag on neighboring plots with RMT sellers who are selling the best tier plots that are scattered around in different wards.

Nothing stops you from reporting what you see on those websites, since RMT is against the rules. SE can find out if a fc master transfer occurred within the fc who owns the plot.

PS. Also not seeing the Sagittarius (EU) houses the OP posted screenshots of and said were being sold for thousands of dollars.

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I think it should be investigated anyway! If they can't prove they're doing anything wrong, then its perfectly fine! If they can then we can give them the Miqote death stare into oblivion.

Just for context in the continuing conversation, Default Miqo'te is an officer in the FC that Archeron Rivendare leads. They're tag-teaming anyone that has been disagreeing with what Archeron posts.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Just for context in the continuing conversation, Default Miqo'te is an officer in the FC that Archeron Rivendare leads. They're tag-teaming anyone that has been disagreeing with what Archeron posts.

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Thank you, edited my post just now that I had made in response to them, no point talking with them.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Are you going to argue with OP over the prices of these RMT houses?

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I'm not arguing anything with the OP because he is a troll spreading misinformation and ignoring replies in his own thread.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Or are we going to agree that regardless of what they are selling for they should not be resold, regardless of RMT, or not. Obviously they're not going to post "Hey I have an entire ward for sale! $10,000 please!" They'll sell the plots off individually as soon as they become desirable.

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Consider calming down? No one is disagreeing that real money trading is against the rules. I'm merely pointing out that it's suboptimal to report multiowners in empty servers who aren't breaking any rules at the moment since their house selling ads are fictional, and I encouraged you to instead report what you actually see on the website. If someone is holding on to houses that they may or may not sell in the future, they aren't breaking any rules unless they do sell them. I posted the GM conversation stating exactly that. Filing tons of false flag reports about every multiowner you see in game for GMs to sort through is not going to help them catch RMT.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Just for context in the continuing conversation, Default Miqo'te is an officer in the FC that Archeron Rivendare leads. They're tag-teaming anyone that has been disagreeing with what Archeron posts.

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LMAO http://10char.png

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Just for context in the continuing conversation, Default Miqo'te is an officer in the FC that Archeron Rivendare leads. They're tag-teaming anyone that has been disagreeing with what Archeron posts.

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Yes, because someone being an officer in my FC means they're allowed no input in any conversations!

You and your meta drama friends really are running low on ammunition to throw at me, but carry on - You only embarass yourselves now that you've run out of arguements to make against me.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Filing tons of false flag reports about every multiowner you see in game for GMs to sort through is not going to help them catch RMT.

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Where did I suggest filing false flag reports against multiowners? I suggested that they should be investigated, and that I think ToS should be updated to prohibit multiowning. An investigation would easily reveal whether or not they're engaging in illicit activity.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Reporting is how things get investigated. If you report people for merely multiowning, you get the GM response I posted earlier in the thread. Wasting GM time and ignoring actual RMT ads will not accomplish what you want it to. But there's no point in me repeating it any more since this doesn't even affect my region and you aren't in this thread looking for solutions.

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I'm not being paid by Square Enix, and I'm not a member of CBU3 - I've made several recommendations in this thread which you have glossed over, as usual. It's not my job to formulate a solution. I am not going to repeat, nor explain the recommendations I've made for the __th time. General discussion is intended to raise awareness of problems, and provide feedback/suggestions for the team to consider. That has been done, I've linked the website and if the GM's so choose they are free to go and follow the paper trail to all of the RMT houses they like.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Your officer that's probably also your friend just so happened to post in this specific thread on a forum account with almost no posts, and they just so happen to agree with you on pretty much everything. That seems like super natural input into the conversation. Totally not inorganic at all!

You're the one with egg on your face, my guy. Getting your friends to post in threads just to back you up is giga cringe.

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Lookie here, a full house of meta drama cards are in my hand. You are like vultures to a carcass.

My friends are free to post, on whatever they want and I could care less if they agree with me or not. (Quite often, they don't.) The fact that the full circus has been called into town shows the complete breakdown of any reasonable arguements or discussions to be made here. By the way, thanks for saying hi to our FC members ingame, whichever of you that was - I expect better from the most petty members of this community.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Yes, because someone being an officer in my FC means they're allowed no input in any conversations!

You and your meta drama friends really are running low on ammunition to throw at me, but carry on - You only embarass yourselves now that you've run out of arguements to make against me.

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https://health.clevelandclinic.org/w...-770x553-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Where did I suggest filing false flag reports against multiowners? I suggested that they should be investigated

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Reporting is how things get investigated. If you report people for merely multiowning, you get the GM response I posted earlier in the thread. Wasting GM time and ignoring actual RMT ads will not accomplish what you want it to. But there's no point in me repeating it any more since this doesn't even affect my region and you aren't in this thread looking for solutions.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

No need to police what isn't against "the law".

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Hell has frozen over. Jojoya is making sense.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

on NA ? Sure, on EU we're chilling pretty much, there is housing for everyone, that's an NA issue

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It's not even that much of an issue on NA as long as you're not going for the best plots in the game.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Just for context in the continuing conversation, Default Miqo'te is an officer in the FC that Archeron Rivendare leads. They're tag-teaming anyone that has been disagreeing with what Archeron posts.

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Archeron, that's not cool bro.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Yes, because someone being an officer in my FC means they're allowed no input in any conversations!

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Your officer that's probably also your friend just so happened to post in this specific thread on a forum account with almost no posts, and they just so happen to agree with you on pretty much everything. That seems like super natural input into the conversation. Totally not inorganic at all!

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Originally Posted by Archeron

You and your meta drama friends really are running low on ammunition to throw at me, but carry on - You only embarass yourselves now that you've run out of arguements to make against me.

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You're the one with egg on your face, my guy. Getting your friends to post in threads just to back you up is giga cringe.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/w...-770x553-1.jpg

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Me after reading some of the responses in this thread: ^^^

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Yes, because someone being an officer in my FC means they're allowed no input in any conversations!

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If only they were adding actual input to the conversation instead of snide remarks about those who disagree with you and then attaching tags to threads that say things like "house owner mafia".

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Originally Posted by Archeron

https://imgur.com/a/baYv1qc

Remember, nothing at all to see here folks! We're definetely not buying up wards to resell them! Not at all!

Now I doubt anyone is actually Going to pay for the list prices of those houses. Seems absurd to me, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just scamming people out of hundreds of dollars, or millions of gil. The 30 day FC rule has done little to curb the illicit trading. They've clearly been doing this operation, in the public eye for years without getting slapped with C&D, or much of any account penalties.

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The reality is these are scams. They don't have the houses offered and exist to take money from people.

In the legit house selling communities/servers, RMT is taboo and anyone who tries to sell houses for cash in those servers is banned when the mods are made aware of it. It's just flat out not tolerated. It's gil only or trading houses (i.e. people swap servers and trade their houses that way) and contracts are exchanged between the two in game so if anything goes south it's reportable to the GMs and the person is subsequently also banned and blacklisted for being a scammer. Just clarifying that before the assumption continues to be made that house-selling/multi-owning = RMT only.

I'm sure that over the years some people have been smacked with a ban for it, especially if they're advertising in game, however it's the same as people who fill up NG with archer bots, they're like the Hydra. You cut off one head (ban one person) and two more crop up in its place.

Or the person just finds their way around the ban since I highly doubt they're banning people by MAC IP.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Every single non-Dynamis NA server has five times the amount of people on Sagittarius (one of the smallest English speaking servers in the whole game LOL). I guess now that makes sense once you look at it that way. Doesn't affect you so its not a problem.

Dynamis has the problem of being introduced far too late into the game's lifecycle where it's not easy for people to pick up and move especially for raiders and crafters who get severed from their raid buffs and active MBs. People want houses, but may not want to deal with a whole ghost of a datacenter. It is an MMORPG after all. And when they eventually when they make Dynamis more attractive, it's going to fill up immediately. 32,000 houses aren't going to support the sheer size of NA (we have 3 datacenters that are constantly in flux of being congested) + bots, multihouse owners, and FCs taking up a nonzero sum of them.

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If you want to be honest you should compare at least new NA to new EU Worlds. Or old NA to old EU Worlds instead of old/settled ones to newly created worlds.
But hey Balmung being Balmung if its fit their own narrative i guess.

But even if you would compare old worlds to each other, Balmung would still be the outlier. But that is a product of its own making.
People staying on Balmung and crying about scarcity? That joke never gets old :D

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Originally Posted by Archeron

https://imgur.com/a/baYv1qc

Remember, nothing at all to see here folks! We're definetely not buying up wards to resell them! Not at all!

Now I doubt anyone is actually Going to pay for the list prices of those houses. Seems absurd to me, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just scamming people out of hundreds of dollars, or millions of gil. The 30 day FC rule has done little to curb the illicit trading. They've clearly been doing this operation, in the public eye for years without getting slapped with C&D, or much of any account penalties.

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It's obvious some people are engaging in this, but to say everyone that owns multiple FC houses does it is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

The reality is these are scams. They don't have the houses offered and exist to take money from people.

In the legit house selling communities/servers, RMT is taboo and anyone who tries to sell houses for cash in those servers is banned when the mods are made aware of it. It's just flat out not tolerated. It's gil only or trading houses (i.e. people swap servers and trade their houses that way) and contracts are exchanged between the two in game so if anything goes south it's reportable to the GMs and the person is subsequently also banned and blacklisted for being a scammer. Just clarifying that before the assumption continues to be made that house-selling/multi-owning = RMT only.

I'm sure that over the years some people have been smacked with a ban for it, especially if they're advertising in game, however it's the same as people who fill up NG with archer bots, they're like the Hydra. You cut off one head (ban one person) and two more crop up in its place.

Or the person just finds their way around the ban since I highly doubt they're banning people by MAC IP.

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I certainly hope this is investigated and banned O.o

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Originally Posted by Akibaws

It's obvious some people are engaging in this, but to say everyone that owns multiple FC houses does it is just stupid.

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Nobody says EVERYONE does it, but .. it's obvious people do, and it should be looked into.

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

Nobody says EVERYONE does it, but .. it's obvious people do, and it should be looked into.

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Where are they supposed to start when there is no evidence of a ToS violation?

They're not going to be Big Brother constantly watching what every player does. That would be insanely expensive and wasteful not to mention would get the player base very angry.

They don't have any legal authority to investigate third party sites. There's a reason why they will very rarely use evidence from outside the game's own records when taking action against a player's account - such outside information would be hard to verify as authenticate involving the account's actual owner instead of a scammer posing as the owner.

It's really easy to say "something must be done" but much harder to accomplish when you're the one tasked with doing it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

For better or worse they wouldn't be entirely wrong, the act of having multiple houses is not against ToS, even on this scale - and whether or not all 60 of these are botting or not, or engaging in RMT is just conjecture at best. I mean, you do have people doing this in a more public manner than demonstrated in this thread.

Furthermore, SE should be looking at themselves long before they take a glance at what players are doing -- The players are doing it because it's a series of severely poor decisions on their part. Many players are just doing what the system permits, ultimately.

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Or the players can also act their age instead of avoiding responsibility.
SE is wrong but so are the players. No one does this without being aware how unethical it is for starters.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Or the players can also act their age instead of avoiding responsibility.
SE is wrong but so are the players. No one does this without being aware how unethical it is for starters.

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It's a fake house in a video game.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Or the players can also act their age instead of avoiding responsibility.
SE is wrong but so are the players. No one does this without being aware how unethical it is for starters.

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I'm not entirely saying players should be absolved of responsibility, but ultimately they're only acting within the confines of what the game sets out. Hence why I said they should look at poking SE who ultimately created the system and does allow it to persist. - I can assure you, all the players in the community that engage in multi-house ownership are not going to suddenly change their minds because some people in the community suddenly decided to go all 'Ethical Standards'

I say it partially from experience you're going to accomplish very little in getting upset at other players - Again, they are only playing within the confines of what the system permits.

Edit: Many of these systems would be much better and would have a lot better reinforcement and prevention against sales and the sort if they just... Designed a better system. Sure, you're picking up the mantle sparking the flames of the big bad people that engage in, say, RMT (If we go that far as well) - But in reality, they've done this for a long, long time. Giving ethics lessons and poking people isn't going to accomplish much - If the ToS for engaging in RMT isn't going to deter them, then neither are a few people on here going to do such, they've already taken the responsibility by taking the risk in the first place. - Again, the problem is almost entirely with SE for designing and maintaining this system.

If you develop a limited number of plots available to the players, especially on larger worlds, then what do you really expect? -- Do you also expect that their current design (regardless of how communal they feel) of having a limited number of 'desirable plots' isn't going to act as an additional incentive for people to engage in this activity? They've literally developed a system that people have abused and winced money out of for well over a decade in the form of exclusives even across many, many other games (History should have taught them a lesson when designing this system). - These people don't care about those 'ethics' - First and foremost for them is a money-making stream. You finding it unethical, and me finding it a selfish or greedy practice is literally irrelevant lol.

You can say both are wrong, but ultimately only one of those can enact a remotely meaningful change, and that is going to be SE. They can sanction it all day and night, but the system is still in place for to occur again. Hence why they should look in their direction as well, and primarily.

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

I certainly hope this is investigated and banned O.o

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You'd have better luck reporting any sites advertising RMT house sales to their hoster and getting it taken down that way in my opinion. Square won't even accept third party photos as evidence normally.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

You'd have better luck reporting any sites advertising RMT house sales to their hoster and getting it taken down that way in my opinion. Square won't even accept third party photos as evidence normally.

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I did not want to put any links or whatever in here. Just talk about the issues of someone buying entire ward for abuse it for moneymaking

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

I did not want to put any links or whatever in here. Just talk about the issues of someone buying entire ward for abuse it for moneymaking

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Which was proven false in the end by me and multiple others, the ones selling for RMT are the ones buying "top tier" plots to sell them for big money, not buying entire wards, those are people doing submarines and/or for decorating. But we both know you arent interested in facts.

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

I did not want to put any links or whatever in here. Just talk about the issues of someone buying entire ward for abuse it for moneymaking

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Good afternoon.

If you have evidence that a player is acting in a way which circumvents TOS, please submit a ticket using the in-game channel and the ticket will be reviewed and action will be taken in the event of infringement, or you may be asked further questions.

Thank you for your contribution!

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Or the players can also act their age instead of avoiding responsibility.
SE is wrong but so are the players. No one does this without being aware how unethical it is for starters.

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Bro actually forgot this is a video game, telling people about "responsibility" "act their age" and "unethical"

its literally a pixel house my guy, I promise you can play the game just fine without it

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Originally Posted by Reddyo

I did not want to put any links or whatever in here. Just talk about the issues of someone buying entire ward for abuse it for moneymaking

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kekw :) 10 chars

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

No one does this without being aware how unethical it is for starters.

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It's not even unethical. At worse it's just a little scummy in the extreme cases where people own entire wards.