Toggle Jump

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Originally Posted by casker

I know right? Having no jump feature really worked out for XIV for SE.

Oh wait the game got

4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0

people who can't stop whining about adding jump are the exact people who are holding the game back

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Yep jump was the whole reason it got shit reviews. Now when 2.0 hits with jump in place it'll nail it w/ straight 10s.

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Originally Posted by casker

I know right? Having no jump feature really worked out for XIV for SE.

Oh wait the game got

4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0

people who can't stop whining about adding jump are the exact people who are holding the game back

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You can't be serious.
Yeah. This game failed because there was no jump. That's it. Everyone that doesn't want a useless jump animation is holding the game back because they always don't want anything new.

I am so sick and tired of this sort of lapse in logic. Just because someone doesn't like one thing, doesn't mean they hate other things and especially not the game as a whole. Please stop this generalizing bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Get a useless, annoying thing added because you got it in other MMO's you played

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Like Galka tails? :rolleyes:

To those who talk about "choice": in my opinion, there are two separate issues at hand.

1. Jumping is a standard feature in almost all contemporary 3D MMOs, FFXI being one of the few exceptions. SE is adding a jump button to the game as a concession to new players' expectations; just as they removed per-character billing and are instating a standard auction house, SE is trying to align the game more with the general MMO player population's expectations for what an MMO is. Aside from the fact that FFXI didn't have it, there's not much reason not to have a jump feature in the game.

2. Whether you personally approve of a given feature or not, I think that expecting toggle commands for certain animations is an awfully slippery slope, and an unsustainable one. Should we have a toggle feature for dance, clap, cheer, sit, bow, happy, poke, or any number of combat animations? What about talking in chat-speak, should we have an automated filter for that? Running in circles? Wearing just an Onion Helm and a subligar? Crafting in your underwear in the middle of a desert? All of these things ruin immersion just as much as the dreaded jumping does. As there's no way they could possibly add filters for all of these things, and because there's no particular argument against jumping that I can tell aside from "FFXI didn't have it so I don't want it here," I think a filter feature is unneeded.

(For the record, I don't care about jumping. SE is adding it because it's something most MMO players these days expect that they should be able to do in any game, so SE wants to cater to that. But that's wholly different than demanding than a filter option "because it annoys me to see it.")

It was one of many reasons the game was unbearable. If you think its okay to just leave it out AGAIN, be ready for another disaster, a disaster which you can credit to the white knights and people living in the past. Only this time it would be worse.

"Squeenix STILL didn't add jump!? WTF is wrong with them?!"
"Well you see, we had these people on the forums who said it was annoying..."
"No excuses. 4.0. AGAIN"

You guys have absolutely no scope for the competition. You need jump. Bitching about it isn't going to help. Bitching about a toggle isn't going to help, and will just make the game stupid.

Jumping in Xenoblade was my favorite thing cause it was funny.

Then I got tired of it after the first few minutes and equipped some Quick Step Gems and fast traveled everything.

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Originally Posted by casker

I know right? Having no jump feature really worked out for XIV for SE.

Oh wait the game got

4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0

people who can't stop whining about adding jump are the exact people who are holding the game back

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Funny story. It was their desire to emulate and harvest the bounty of Casual players, whom they wished to steal from WoW, and a half finished game that got them the 4.0

This whole mess started with the concept of copying other MMOs and it nearly buried it. The only reason we're still even here is because SE are some stubborn Mofos and refuse to let the game die without another shot. Make no mistake, it was the pursuit of Casual profits by mimicking the current "Standard" MMO mock up that drove throngs of FFXI players away during the big shift. Even if the game was marred by the clunky UI and horrid lag. It would have done famously better if it were more in line with the play style of their previous MMO's player pool.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Funny story. It was their desire to emulate and harvest the bounty of Casual players, whom they wished to steal from WoW, and a half finished game that got them the 4.0

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One major complaint was the crafting was massively difficult.
Another was the grind. These are failings that have nothing to do with being casual.

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This whole mess started with the concept of copying other MMOs and it nearly buried it.

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And you think adding a jump is going to bury the game? You think adding jump makes SE copycats?

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It would have done famously better if it were more in line with the play style of their previous MMO's player pool.

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More in line with the play style of FFXI...you mean like...having no jump?

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Originally Posted by casker

One major complaint was the crafting was massively difficult.
Another was the grind. These are failings that have nothing to do with being casual.


And you think adding a jump is going to bury the game? You think adding jump makes SE copycats?


More in line with the play style of FFXI...you mean like...having no jump?

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It is not entirely about jump. I'm not saying The lack or addition of Jump was the driving force behind FFXIV's failed launch. It is the troubling willingness of SE to deviate from a working model (FFXI) and experiments with shake and bake gimmicky mock ups you find in other MMO's for the sake of netting a few more potential customers. In FFXI you were rewarded n how much time you put into game. Those who played more almost always had the edge on those with less time commitment. They tried to close the gap between the Hard Core and Casual audience with the Fatigue system. So newer players wouldn't get fed up with Veterans outclassing them. This abomination was universally hated and if it ever got out that we dabbled with such heinous ideas I'm quite certain the Earth would have been eradicated to prevent the spread of our Thought Disease to other sentient species.

Jumping is one of these MMO tack ons that you seem to want to be hamlocked everywhere because 'Well its Jump! You got to have jumping because.... Jumping!"

SE should and needs to be more cautious what they are throwing into the mixing bowl. Useless and bland pasted features being added for teh sake of being added will dumb down the game. Take away from the few redeeming and unique qualities FFXIV still has on over the competition.

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Originally Posted by casker

It was one of many reasons the game was unbearable. If you think its okay to just leave it out AGAIN, be ready for another disaster, a disaster which you can credit to the white knights and people living in the past. Only this time it would be worse.

"Squeenix STILL didn't add jump!? WTF is wrong with them?!"
"Well you see, we had these people on the forums who said it was annoying..."
"No excuses. 4.0. AGAIN"

You guys have absolutely no scope for the competition. You need jump. Bitching about it isn't going to help. Bitching about a toggle isn't going to help, and will just make the game stupid.

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I'm all for jumping, but your reasoning is ridiculous.

Honestly, I would normally say if jump is just there to see your character jump then hey why not let people toggle it off? If they don't need to see it they should have the option. After all the raging anti jump posts though, I want everyone to have to see it. If just thinking about something so trivial is making people foam at the mouth then they deserve to get trolled in game by jumpers.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I'm all for jumping, but your reasoning is ridiculous.

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Am I wrong then? You think it will be okay when every other game has jump, and FFXIV still doesn't have jump after getting criticized for it at the initial launch?

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Originally Posted by casker

Am I wrong then? You think it will be okay when every other game has jump, and FFXIV still doesn't have jump after getting criticized for it at the initial launch?

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Yes, because FFXIV is sticking to high fantasy low tone realism. The armor, the weapons, the world, the mobs, the spells, the abilities, the emotes. It all has a very solid and firm feel to it. They've spent a very long time making the World carry weight and it is going to be obliterated, dragging through the streets by its intestines, and burned because Jumping in any sensible fashion is going to either be over the top. Or so close to reality that is won't be useful. Christ man! Is it so hard to accept that this game is one a single plane? That we don't have flying mounts or can jump off mountains and hang air for 3 minutes until we reach the bottom?

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

It is not entirely about jump. I'm not saying The lack or addition of Jump was the driving force behind FFXIV's failed launch. It is the troubling willingness of SE to deviate from a working model (FFXI)

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And yet they had no jump. That was the UNWILLINGNESS to deviate from FFXI. And THAT is what bit them in the ass here. Your narrative about what made the game fail has nothing to do with what is really going on with jumping.

I agree that they shouldn't just add jump just because. It needs to be accompanied by uses for overcoming terrain and giving your character z-axis so you don't feel like you're rooted sliding along the floor. Once the feature is in the game, you can work it into other things and get creative with it if you want.

Other than that, I have no idea why you are bringing all this casual/hardcore stuff into this thread.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Yes, because FFXIV is sticking to high fantasy low tone realism. The armor, the weapons, the world, the mobs, the spells, the abilities, the emotes. It all has a very solid and firm feel to it. They've spent a very long time making the World carry weight and it is going to be obliterated, dragging through the streets by its intestines, and burned because Jumping in any sensible fashion is going to either be over the top. Or so close to reality that is won't be useful. Christ man! Is it so hard to accept that this game is one a single plane? That we don't have flying mounts or can jump off mountains and hang air for 3 minutes until we reach the bottom?

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And being unable to get past a one foot high wall because you can't leave the ground, that fits with low tone realism?

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Originally Posted by casker

And yet they had no jump. That was the UNWILLINGNESS to deviate from FFXI. And THAT is what bit them in the ass here. Your narrative about what made the game fail has nothing to do with what is really going on with jumping.

I agree that they shouldn't just add jump just because. It needs to be accompanied by uses for overcoming terrain and giving your character z-axis so you don't feel like you're rooted sliding along the floor. Once the feature is in the game, you can work it into other things and get creative with it if you want.

Other than that, I have no idea why you are bringing all this casual/hardcore stuff into this thread.

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You clearly haven't read the thread. It has been confirmed, from the holied lips of the Yoshi himself, jumping will have NO effect on game play. That 7 inch high ledge is STILL going to get in your way. You are not gain ANYTHING from this Jump except.... the ability to jump. I've already addressed this. You don't want a jump, you want better/more obvious level design. So any places they don't want you to get by are much more obviously pronounced. Instead of a 7 inch high ledge it is a wall of rusting buried pikes.

So you guys are operating on the assumption that it won't do anything at all. Personally I think that was a misunderstanding based on the context of the question and the environment that the interview took place.

But assuming it does nothing, the answer is not to just say "give me a toggle," we should be demanding that we realistically be able to jump over obstacles. Leaving people anchored to the ground WILL be seen as a deficiency in the game no matter how much some people are okay with it.

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Originally Posted by casker

I know right? Having no jump feature really worked out for XIV for SE.

Oh wait the game got

4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0
4.0

people who can't stop whining about adding jump are the exact people who are holding the game back

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Yeah, those 4.0 scores couldn't have possibly been due to anything else.

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Originally Posted by casker

It was one of many reasons the game was unbearable. If you think its okay to just leave it out AGAIN, be ready for another disaster, a disaster which you can credit to the white knights and people living in the past. Only this time it would be worse.

"Squeenix STILL didn't add jump!? WTF is wrong with them?!"
"Well you see, we had these people on the forums who said it was annoying..."
"No excuses. 4.0. AGAIN"

You guys have absolutely no scope for the competition. You need jump. Bitching about it isn't going to help. Bitching about a toggle isn't going to help, and will just make the game stupid.

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So with jump implemented, you expect to see a massive influx of subscriptions and reviewers giving the game a perfect-10.0 score.



I want the choice to be able to toggle jumping off, and the fact you're obstructing it when you wanted the choice to have jumping to begin with only tells me how much of a hypocrite you are. Maybe you should learn to compromise.

Toss up a toggle for mog weapons I'm tired of people pulling them out and putting them away! oh wait I do that. :o

Requesting the ability to toggle off an action meant for interacting with the world, just because you think it is annoying, before you've even seen it in action, is totally asinine. Babble on about choice all you want, but what you're asking for amounts to a waste of development resources as well as a path to a game that is without consistency of time and space. When someone jumps, everyone should see the damn jump. If you're jumping from rock to rock, you need to see the jump. This is not something to compromise just because some people think its annoying.

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Originally Posted by casker

So you guys are operating on the assumption that it won't do anything at all. Personally I think that was a misunderstanding based on the context of the question and the environment that the interview took place.

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I can only hope you're right, but based on our actual knowledge at the moment, the only ones assuming are the people that think it will actually do something.

If it actually does something, I don't think anyone would want a toggle.

If it's the case that it doesn't serve any purpose at all, it shouldn't even be implented until it does.

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Originally Posted by casker

If it's the case that it doesn't serve any purpose at all, it shouldn't even be implemented until it does.

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Word of God says they have no plans for it, so I wouldn't exactly hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by casker

FFXIV got terrible scores becasue of jumps

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http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/dd0/afd...tly-71b51b.jpg

Now I know that's not exactly your point but the massive gap in logic you have is have with this argument is a bit daunting.

Your main point is that FFXIV did what every other MMO didn't, it didn't copy WoW and tried to forge it's own style of MMO based on it's previous entry in the genre that faired fairly decently. Hell maybe if they tried to emulate FFXI a bit more we wouldn't be in this situation would we?

But let's blame stuff like.

Surplus
bland world design
bland quest design
lack of content
Wonky UI
stamina system
Battle regimens
tons of other stuff.

On the players right? it's because of us dinosaures that FFXIV turned out the way it did. Spot on there chap...spot on.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/dd0/afd...tly-71b51b.jpg

Now I know that's not exactly your point but the massive gap in logic you have is have with this argument is a bit daunting.

Your main point is that FFXIV did what every other MMO didn't, it didn't copy WoW and tried to forge it's own style of MMO based on it's previous entry in the genre that faired fairly decently. Hell maybe if they tried to emulate FFXI a bit more we wouldn't be in this situation would we?

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I haven't said anything even remotely like this. I haven't brought up WoW at all. The fuck are you on about?

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But let's blame stuff like.

Surplus
bland world design
bland quest design
lack of content
Wonky UI
stamina system
Battle regimens
tons of other stuff.

On the players right? it's because of us dinosaures that FFXIV turned out the way it did. Spot on there chap...spot on.

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I said nothing like this at all either. No where did I say the initial launch was the players fault. But you can count lack of jumping as one of the marks against this game at launch, and come 2.0 when its missing because of people like you, and this game is a laughing stock once again, damn right part of the blame is going to be on you guys.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

No! I didn't say Jumping will bring in subscribers!
Prepare for your game to fail because you guys didn't let them include Jumping!

That was a painfully obviously contradiction in a single Period flat.

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I did not say the game will get 10.0's and be flawless because of adding jumping. All I have ever said is that this game will still be a joke if you guys get your way even after people complained about this shit and made it clear that it was a needed feature.

i will be dissapointed if jump is only an emote...

i wanted maps where you need to jump over rocks to access somewhere, to stop getting stuck on a rock in the field, or to evade a trap in a boss...

I cant get why people dont want jump to do things like this. Photorealistic graphics game and jump is an emote?

You know why people spam jump. two reasons they like hitting a key while idle to "do something" currently in xiv people run around. Or they do it just to piss off people who are anal retentive about people "jumping" to much.

I find this rather pathetic really. We've got characters jumping out of visiual spectrum as a game mechanic, yet we can't have it as a bit of fun.

Should my Jump and Elusive jump both have a filter too. Because I can randomly jump on a weak monster and kill it just for fun. Or elusive jump straight into your crowd.

How about Leg Sweep? I don't need a target for that, just TP, and I can generate that with Invigorate.

Speaking of invigorate. It's annoying to watch people buff in towns, we should be able to turn that off too.

Emote usage as well. I should have to see anyone cheer or wave or any of that - too annoying, it can be spammed!

Normal game jumping is in the above categories, and if they're so annoying that you need a filter for ANY of them, I suggest you toggle the game off.

They should make jump/ledges work like GW2. If you jump is high enough to visually get over an object, you can do it. If there's a ledge, doesn't matter where it is you can fall off of it. If you survive just depends on how high it is :)

Played beta all day yesterday and have to say it was a blast ^^ I know the dev's are playing other mmo's in admission by Yoshi as part of making XIV so I hope they get some great aspects from all games out there.

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Originally Posted by casker

It was one of many reasons the game was unbearable.

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No it wasn't. There's a lot of Korean MMOs and WoW/GW etc you can play if you feel Jump is the reason an MMO is good.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This makes you sound angrier than the OP, just FYI.

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After reading this stupid OP i AM "angrier". but my reason is not stupid. (hint hint).

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I find this rather pathetic really. We've got characters jumping out of visiual spectrum as a game mechanic, yet we can't have it as a bit of fun.

Should my Jump and Elusive jump both have a filter too. Because I can randomly jump on a weak monster and kill it just for fun. Or elusive jump straight into your crowd.

How about Leg Sweep? I don't need a target for that, just TP, and I can generate that with Invigorate.

Speaking of invigorate. It's annoying to watch people buff in towns, we should be able to turn that off too.

Emote usage as well. I should have to see anyone cheer or wave or any of that - too annoying, it can be spammed!

Normal game jumping is in the above categories, and if they're so annoying that you need a filter for ANY of them, I suggest you toggle the game off.

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The difference is; abilities have a use even if they are sometimes not used correctly, emotes are used as a form of expression and can even be used to communicate across language barriers, they are also not assigned to a button on the keyboard.

Jump has no purpose and will be easily spammable and more visible than emotes.

Another point is; while running, if you use an emote you don't see the action, you just see the text in the chat log, however I'm pretty sure if someone is hitting jump while running, they will still be visibly jumping, so that is how they differ.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It's threads like these that are the reason why only 3% of the community participate in OF.

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well said my friend
well said

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Originally Posted by Galliano

The difference is; abilities have a use even if they are sometimes not used correctly, emotes are used as a form of expression and can even be used to communicate across language barriers, they are also not assigned to a button on the keyboard.

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I don't know why anyone would bring up DRG's jump to being with. DRG and LNC for the most part throughout FF history always has a jump command, why would you toggle off the animation of a job ability? May as well toggle off every battle action then.

Plenty of games have emote toggles, kind of funny when you think about how people want XIV to be standard but will fight against an emote toggle. (Having no use but to jump pretty much guarantees it's basically an emote.)

Spamming jump, eh? One could say that lala's spamming of /laugh is just as annoying, if not more.

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

Spamming jump, eh? One could say that lala's spamming of /laugh is just as annoying, if not more.

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Specially the deep voice ones, thus why an emote toggle would be amazing >.>

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Do you know that it's pointless? I mean as far as we know it doesn't effect battle.

I'd personally prefer to see someone jump up a ledge than hover up a ledge. I'll never understand why people are so against jumping in a game with so many ledges.

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The only people against jump are pple from XI. It's the only place where you couldn't jump and they just can't stand it for some reason. It seems that they came to the conclusion that jumping is the only thing setting XI appart from the game they hate the most... WOW.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The only people against jump are pple from XI. It's the only place where you couldn't jump and they just can't stand it for some reason. It seems that they came to the conclusion that jumping is the only thing setting XI appart from the game they hate the most... WOW.

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Cool story bro.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The only people against jump are pple from XI. It's the only place where you couldn't jump and they just can't stand it for some reason. It seems that they came to the conclusion that jumping is the only thing setting XI appart from the game they hate the most... WOW.

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Ironically, XI wasn't the first nor only MMO that lacked Jump. Talk shit at least get facts correct about MMOs with certain mechanics.

I mean, I played XI for 10 years, I also played FLYFF (you jump AND fly..how about that?), Space Cowboy (You fly..), Rapplez, WoW, EQ1,2, GW, Tera, Eden Eternal and Rusty Hearts...yet I don't care for jump..are you going to say because I play FFXI is the reason I don't care for jump? :P

Forumites: EVERY OTHER MMO HAS JUMP, UNREALISTIC IF CAN'T JUMP! WANT IMMERSION JUMP, GIVE US NOW!!!:mad::mad:

Devs: But we've built a game where you don't need to jump.:confused:

Forumites: GIVE NOW OR /RAGEQUIT!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Devs: sigh... Ok, we got it working for 2.0. But please understand that it will not have an impact on gameplay. Its just for your immersion.;)

Forumites: WTF DEVS!?! WE GET JUMP AND IT NOT DO NOTHING??! MAKE IT HAVE REASON FOR JUMP!! GIVE US JUMP ZONE FOR MARIO ACTION GAMEPLAY, MAKE FOR BATTLE JUMPING!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Devs: orz, why do we even bother?:(