Ishgard Housing No Lottery For Wards

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Originally Posted by Azuri

"No chance of a house", huh? So all those Empyreum houses will stay completely empty because no one can ever win a lottery. Right?

Or does that simply mean that everyone will now have an equal chance? And you won't have an advantage that increased your own chances?

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How many lotteries have you won?

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There needs to be a demolishing timer.

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Not according to Yoshida himself back in the day, and a switch to instanced housing would solve this entirely. There are f2p MMOs with a far better housing system (and houses) than this allegedly more successful subscription based model. The "neighborhood feel" also loses allure with a quickness when neighbors act like the ward is a HOA.

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If it doesnt exist house plots will keep building up and up and up. There are people who would buy a house and quit and you have a permanent house taking up server space permanently.

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They worked for that house, they earned that house, it's no one's business what they do with that house. This game can't claim to "value player time" with this system, yet allegedly, Yoshida wants us to take breaks when we are burned out. Since it's usually dedicated players who work towards a house, there's also a very good chance a MIA player could be suffering a hardship, but muh pixels, amirite? And, again--

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Due to this desired plots will never be free either, imagine if you had free picking everyone picks the big house near the beach so you'll end up with 10k wards where everyone owns the same house, maybe several times because they want one on their alts too.

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--they've limited housing to one per account. Not character, not server, one per account. Only the grandfathered have more, and new wards wouldn't generate until a ward is full. The need to cherry-pick so-called "better" locations is just another design flaw, like punishing apartment owners in the gardening department.

This system remains just a ploy to keep people tied to their sub, and all it causes are ghouls who care more about a pixel house opening than the players who worked for them.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You're not devoted or tenacious if you get up at 4am to be the first to log into an MMO, you're hopelessly addicted.

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Its no different from lining up early to get a good spot in a general admissions event. Unless you want to imply music fests or autograph signings are addictions too lmao

As I said in another thread, I will say it here.

"I think some haven't even experienced housing FCFS of the past. Go look at the archives of the post in the forums from previous housing launches. Players complaining about game crashing right as they loaded into the game, couldn't get through the queue at all even to try for a plot or the plots were all purchased within 10 minutes.
I would imagine 80% of the players will not even get a plot this round through FCFS and you'll be right back in these forums cursing the system you wanted to keep.

With the growth of the game over the past year, there are more players determined to get a plot which means that drops your chances of obtaining one FCFS, since they are converting many of them to a Lottery System. Even if they left them ALL FCFS, your chances will still be weak due to the same issues of past launches for housing and the growth in the player base. So I think the lesser evil will be the Lottery."

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

How many lotteries have you won?

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While I get what you are saying and making it solely about one's self, what the original poster meant was that someone has to win it. The house won't sit vacant. That is where the fairness is. The house will go to someone and out of all the people who put in a ticket, they all did the same amount of work. No more getting mad about the botter sitting there or the toxic person trying to place things in front of you clicking.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

No more getting mad about the botter sitting there or the toxic person trying to place things in front of you clicking.

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Statistically, no more getting a house either.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Statistically, no more getting a house either.

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You keep saying this.. with no basis in reality. Statistically you have a better chance of finding a house available with lottery over FCFS and your chances of getting that house are merely 1 in howevermany enter the lottery rather than the exceedingly unlikely statistics involved in either bumrushing the servers on release day or the clickfest we used to have.

The major difference is you cannot effect the chances with investment or scripts or client modding.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Statistically, no more getting a house either.

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Your chance may has gone down. But the chance of hundreds of other players who simply can't or even don't want to rush the district in the first 10 minutes or camp placards is now above 0.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That still doesn't address the fact that if it were FCFS, you need to get up at ~4am on patch day to beat everyone else there including queues for login and for the instances, to get a house
That's still an unfair system and promotes people taking unhealthy measures to try to get an item in a video game. The FCFS system is bad and the lottery system is more fair for everyone.
Trying to frame it tenacity vs lazy people is a bunch of malarkey. You're not devoted or tenacious if you get up at 4am to be the first to log into an MMO, you're hopelessly addicted.

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Well said friend, couldn't have been able to put it better myself.

Also, let's not forget that people live in different time zones.

If I'm not wrong, the patch release timing for Europe is around 10am in the morning, which is basically when most people are either at work or school.

FCFS means what these people lose their chances at housing through no fault of their own. They can't even wake up at 4am to join the mad rush which happens on NA even if they want to, not that I'm promoting this unhealthy act mind you

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Originally Posted by Juun

I just realized something what prevents a person from making a ton of alt accounts making individual FCs and just bid on a house as FC and which ever alt wins you join that FC and transfer leadership to your main?

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That said, if SE were smart, they'd make it so a bid on one account counted for the entire account. Otherwise, my wife's account has the work and cash put in to do this. (we wanted multiple themed rooms in our FC house)

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Your chance may has gone down. But the chance of hundreds of other players who simply can't or even don't want to rush the district in the first 10 minutes or camp placards is now above 0.

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And there was still a non-zero chance in FCFS people can find a house no one is competing for, or walk in, press the placard for <5mins and get it even with competition. My friend got their house doing exactly that. No spamming, just walked up and bought it within 5 mins with four others camping it, by simply only trying for 10mins a day at any given plot since he had a busy IRL and didn't want to commit to long hours of camping. One of my old FCs got their house finding a small that had no competition on it and bought it when it was up, with no idea how long it had been available for when someone logged in to try that day.

Even without the desire to camp for long hours or rush in the first 10mins, the odds of getting a house in FCFS were never 0 with diligence to try for even just 5mins a day. With lottery however, they have just been dropped to <1% universally (statistically making it so the infinitely vast majority will go 20+ lotteries without getting a house, and many more will go without ever seeing a house for literal years when they might have stood a chance in FCFS) for everyone, acting as a simple punishment for people with diligence.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

And there was still a non-zero chance in FCFS people can find a house no one is competing for, or walk in, press the placard for <5mins and get it even with competition. My friend got their house doing exactly that. No spamming, just walked up and bought it within 5 mins with four others camping it, by simply only trying for 10mins a day at any given plot since he had a busy IRL and didn't want to commit to long hours of camping. One of my old FCs got their house finding a small that had no competition on it and bought it when it was up, with no idea how long it had been available for when someone logged in to try that day.

Even without the desire to camp for long hours or rush in the first 10mins, the odds of getting a house in FCFS were never 0 with diligence to try for even just 5mins a day. With lottery however, they have just been dropped to <1% universally (statistically making it so the infinitely vast majority will go 20+ lotteries without getting a house, and many more will go without ever seeing a house for literal years when they might have stood a chance in FCFS) for everyone, acting as a simple punishment for people with diligence.

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Has it occurred to you that your friend and FC were extremely lucky then?

I myself has camped more than 50 plots, for hours at a time before getting my house. Granted, my luck could simply be the worst but my point is using anecdotes such as these doesn't really prove anything.

I am shocked and amazed that there are STILL people coming into this thread and arguing for FCFS, all the while drumming up RIDICULOUS claims of it being somehow fair, when in reality, all they want is better odds for THEMSELVES.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Has it occurred to you that your friend and FC were extremely lucky then?

I myself has camped more than 50 plots, for hours at a time before getting my house. Granted, my luck could simply be the worst but my point is using anecdotes such as these doesn't really prove anything.

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Sorry to hear that-

I grabbed a back alley house nobody wanted in Ul'dah when they were free for all and everyone was rushing to Kugane/Mist. Same for my FC.

After that I was able to bully my way by relocating to whatever opened up. Never had to wait/click/fight for the houses.

While I feel lucky to eventually get where I am over multiple houses, this lottery is very much the best "fair" option. I can't imagine having to spend the money I did to relocate several times to be acceptable for a newer player.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You keep saying this.. with no basis in reality. Statistically you have a better chance of finding a house available with lottery over FCFS and your chances of getting that house are merely 1 in howevermany enter the lottery rather than the exceedingly unlikely statistics involved in either bumrushing the servers on release day or the clickfest we used to have.

The major difference is you cannot effect the chances with investment or scripts or client modding.

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Statistically, I have stumbled across 3 vacant plots that were free to grab.
No stress, no messing with my sleep schedule, no unfairness because there was no one there to contest them
A bit of luck? Sure, but they were there in front of me to take in the moment.
And anyone can do the same. Anyone can go to a less popular ward, on a less populated world, and pick up a small plot with absolute ease.

That's no longer possible. Now even the easy pickings will have a 24hr waiting period where dozens of players can put their name down to be chosen out if a hat.

A lottery is absolutely fine for some, even most, of the newly released wards, but it's heavy handed and overkill to apply it as a blanket policy across all wards all the time. Not all plots are equaln and it is absolutely unecessary for the "easier" (less popular/populated) plots. It actually makes THOSE plots less fair.

i get the feeling that most of the people rooting for the old FCFS system don't have much of a life. i work 12 hour shifts and also have a life out of gaming so without insane luck i have almost no chance of getting a house on my own. lottery is the most fair option no matter what you argue and i agree it was a long time coming. sitting for hours hoping you click it at the exact time it goes up for sale is horribly unhealthy.

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Originally Posted by Soma_Farkreath

i get the feeling that most of the people rooting for the old FCFS system don't have much of a life. i work 12 hour shifts and also have a life out of gaming so without insane luck i have almost no chance of getting a house on my own. lottery is the most fair option no matter what you argue and i agree it was a long time coming. sitting for hours hoping you click it at the exact time it goes up for sale is horribly unhealthy.

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No, don't you get it? They know a friend of a friend who was able to log on, go to a Ward, and instantly get a house, despite working extremely long shifts every day of the week. Clearly means FCFS is perfectly fine. Or something.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

No, don't you get it? They know a friend of a friend who was able to log on, go to a Ward, and instantly get a house, despite working extremely long shifts every day of the week. Clearly means FCFS is perfectly fine. Or something.

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oh yeah most definitely completely fair to everyone who wants a house

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Statistically, I have stumbled across 3 vacant plots that were free to grab.

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I don't think you get what "statistically" means or what people are saying. What were the chances of that happening AND you wanting a house AND you having the money to grab AND them having their timers expired? That's the statistics part. How often do you find an empty house especially now? That's your chances.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

No stress, no messing with my sleep schedule, no unfairness because there was no one there to contest them
A bit of luck? Sure, but they were there in front of me to take in the moment.
And anyone can do the same. Anyone can go to a less popular ward, on a less populated world, and pick up a small plot with absolute ease.

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and on a less populated world those houses will be just as available under a lottery. If nobody is taking them or wants them the lottery will go ahead uncontested. The CHANCES of getting a house are the same.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

That's no longer possible. Now even the easy pickings will have a 24hr waiting period where dozens of players can put their name down to be chosen out if a hat.

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if there are that many people who want a house, it wasn't "easy pickings" it was you being extremely lucky. The CHANCES you had of getting a house were low but you beat the odds.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

A lottery is absolutely fine for some, even most, of the newly released wards, but it's heavy handed and overkill to apply it as a blanket policy across all wards all the time. Not all plots are equaln and it is absolutely unecessary for the "easier" (less popular/populated) plots. It actually makes THOSE plots less fair.

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Once again in the less populated places where houses would sit empty for days, your chances of getting a house is the same.

What is happening is the playing ground is being made fair. Those who cannot reasonably be constantly monitoring for a house have a chance they didn't before. In a game where you're supposed to engage "at will" with content it's the fairest solution without revamping the whole system. As someone with a good connection and powerful computer who technically CAN login at any time (work is flexible) I COULD take advantage of a FCFS situation.. but I don't want to. It's also vulnerable to exploiters and at least somewhat stands in the way of black markets, moreso than FCFS. I want everyone to have at least an equal chance for a house and objectively this is it.

The free trial is back so maybe there are less players around now?

Hopefully that leads to more of you getting a home, best of luck everyone!

I think everyone is going to be completely for this idea until it launches and most of you still don't get a house lmao. The reality is this game has an insane amount of players. and .00002% of them post here. So the majority that win will just be celebrating in game while the majority that lost will pool here to cry possibly. As the hroth dude said, as it was, it actually wasnt the worst getting a house. You just had to be smart about it.

Most people go like 'omg nooooooo i have to have plot xyzz!!' rookie mistake. You can be picky AFTER you score a house, not before. Or at least you could be, because you could relocate after. Me? I heard they were adding more wards. So on ward patch day, everyone ran to Lavender beds/Shirogane and me? I went to Goblet, where pretty much none of the newly added houses were taken and got one. It was really just that simple. If you run where everyone else is running, of course it's all going to get snatched up. But goblet had houses up for days-probably even a solid week after that ward addition. It was like that in multiple servers. Not only that, but I met a group of whole new players. Whole new to FFXIV!! Within a month of them searching for housing not only did they get their own little houses, but they also scored a medium FC. Granted they're in a lesser popular server. But it was still possible-with ease!! Casually!!! In their free time, fresh home from work..logged in, stalked the goblet, finally found one and clicked against either no one or maybe 2-3 which after they won, relocated to an area they better preferred (mist). Will that still be possible after lottery? I dont know man. I hope! I certainly hope so. But I get the feeling it's going to cause way bigger headaches. I get the feeling everyone swinging their pompoms right now for the lottery system is going to be spitting fire and kicking over trash cans after they lose and all the houses fill entirely based on rng. It'll be a rage unmatched if it's not done in a way that screws over most which is kinda unavoidable if you think about it. No matter what there 'wont be enough'. Pity that.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Also, let's not forget that people live in different time zones.

If I'm not wrong, the patch release timing for Europe is around 10am in the morning, which is basically when most people are either at work or school.

FCFS means what these people lose their chances at housing through no fault of their own. They can't even wake up at 4am to join the mad rush which happens on NA even if they want to, not that I'm promoting this unhealthy act mind you

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It is funny that my hometown, whenever there are new development of housing come to market, most of time there will be more buyer than houses on offer, and they let all the potential buyer drop a very small deposit, and use lottery system to pick who are the lucky one.

In FFXIV, if there are big enough player base want a house making lottery small chance of owning and if FCFS mean many of those would be excluded then there are more reason to go for full lottery.
If the player base is small enough that FCFS would make minimal impact then lottery would not affect significantly lower the chance of obtaining a house.
The only situation FCFS would favour over lottery would be the demand are high and those who could get in game in time when patch come alive would favour FCFS. I am not going to call them selfish, because we all are no matter which system FCFS, or lottery supporter, we all want better chance. Yet, lottery would benefit a bigger population, and I favour a system benefit the greater community/population

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Those complaining about lottery for ishgard prolly have never experienced a new housing ward/region release, you literally have less than 5mins to login and get large/medium houses and 20-30mins for small. They do actually go that fast especially in the popular servers, and for many this is just straight impossible to do. So a lottery is really the only decent solution until the completely overhaul housing, drop so many new wards to cover the player base or add personal homes...

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This. The last time housing wards were added, I logged in when the server came up. By the time I got through errors and the queue, housing was gone already. I am sick and tired of having this system that I badly want to participate in gated from me. It is one of the biggest issues I have with FFXIV and it boggles my mind how games as old and outdated as something like Everquest 2 can have practically unlimited housing available to anyone that wants it but FFXIV can't. And if it's a population issue, then I'd point at ESO which also allows you have to have a ludicrous amount of housing. You don't have to compete for it, you don't have to log in at midnight on a patch day, you don't have to try and find a way to game the system. You just get whatever you want, whenever you want.

Last time I wanted to relocate (basically FCFS) my small plot into a medium on new wards release, I missed every medium/large plot when I logged in just because I had a queue on the patch day on the patch release. I had to buy the plot from other player for basically twice the price to get a medium house.

So idk if people asking for FCFS in Ishgard are so confident in servers/their PC, but I'm more than sure that if that system will get implemented on the ishgard housing release they most likely wont be able to get it once the game allows them to log in.

The only solution for everyone to be happy is instance housing which would require a complete overhaul and more servers for housing. Which we wont get anytime soon.

Lottery isn't a nice solution either but at least ppl don't have to sit for a sleepless night to get a plot only to see how some jerk relocates on it before their nose. Or wake up and rush to PC only to see 600 ppl in queue and no nice plots available.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

I think everyone is going to be completely for this idea until it launches and most of you still don't get a house lmao. The reality is this game has an insane amount of players. and .00002% of them post here. So the majority that win will just be celebrating in game while the majority that lost will pool here to cry possibly. As the hroth dude said, as it was, it actually wasnt the worst getting a house. You just had to be smart about it.

Most people go like 'omg nooooooo i have to have plot xyzz!!' rookie mistake. You can be picky AFTER you score a house, not before. Or at least you could be, because you could relocate after. Me? I heard they were adding more wards. So on ward patch day, everyone ran to Lavender beds/Shirogane and me? I went to Goblet, where pretty much none of the newly added houses were taken and got one. It was really just that simple. If you run where everyone else is running, of course it's all going to get snatched up. But goblet had houses up for days-probably even a solid week after that ward addition. It was like that in multiple servers. Not only that, but I met a group of whole new players. Whole new to FFXIV!! Within a month of them searching for housing not only did they get their own little houses, but they also scored a medium FC. Granted they're in a lesser popular server. But it was still possible-with ease!! Casually!!! In their free time, fresh home from work..logged in, stalked the goblet, finally found one and clicked against either no one or maybe 2-3 which after they won, relocated to an area they better preferred (mist). Will that still be possible after lottery? I dont know man. I hope! I certainly hope so. But I get the feeling it's going to cause way bigger headaches. I get the feeling everyone swinging their pompoms right now for the lottery system is going to be spitting fire and kicking over trash cans after they lose and all the houses fill entirely based on rng. It'll be a rage unmatched if it's not done in a way that screws over most which is kinda unavoidable if you think about it. No matter what there 'wont be enough'. Pity that.

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Hate to break it to you, instant relocation has been removed as of 6.0. New buyers and relocating homeowners are now on equal footing when it comes to purchasing empty plots.

And no, with lottery plenty still won't get a house. But neither will they get one in FCFS. Purchasing system in no way addresses the fact that there are simply less houses than players interested in one and this "argument" is completely irrelevant to the discussion. The only variable is who gets the house, not how many.

It's curious to me how so many people seem to only be thinking of the few days around the patch, and completely forgetting the years that follow when we return to one small house demo every 3 to 4 days.

With all lottery somewhere between 1440 and 2880 people per world will be very happy house owners when Empyreum is done and dusted.

But after that, I think at that one or 2 houses a week demolish point is when people will start rending their clothes and screaming at the moon how it is absolutely impossible to have a chance at lottery, ever.

Yeah this isn't gonna make the problem go away. The only upside of this is that folks who couldn't be online for fcfs can at least go for the specific house they want, but if you can only enter the lottery once (which I'm not sure on?) Then you can also only go for one of your choices and only once at that. And then probably never see it become available again. And with relocation gone it's pretty much a case of settling for what you get forever unless RNG rolls in your favor twice. Which yeah having a house at all is the biggest thing, but with relocation you have a shot at just moving to the house you want if it ever becomes available. Now you lose any advantage owning a house gives you in getting the location you want. So this is maybe better for people who can't be on early or often, probably worse for anyone who already owns a house and who CAN be on when the servers first open, and still means most people aren't gonna be able to have a house at all. Which is probably just how it's gonna stay. Still sucks though.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

I think everyone is going to be completely for this idea until it launches and most of you still don't get a house lmao. The reality is this game has an insane amount of players. and .00002% of them post here. So the majority that win will just be celebrating in game while the majority that lost will pool here to cry possibly. As the hroth dude said, as it was, it actually wasnt the worst getting a house. You just had to be smart about it.

Most people go like 'omg nooooooo i have to have plot xyzz!!' rookie mistake. You can be picky AFTER you score a house, not before. Or at least you could be, because you could relocate after. Me? I heard they were adding more wards. So on ward patch day, everyone ran to Lavender beds/Shirogane and me? I went to Goblet, where pretty much none of the newly added houses were taken and got one. It was really just that simple. If you run where everyone else is running, of course it's all going to get snatched up. But goblet had houses up for days-probably even a solid week after that ward addition. It was like that in multiple servers. Not only that, but I met a group of whole new players. Whole new to FFXIV!! Within a month of them searching for housing not only did they get their own little houses, but they also scored a medium FC. Granted they're in a lesser popular server. But it was still possible-with ease!! Casually!!! In their free time, fresh home from work..logged in, stalked the goblet, finally found one and clicked against either no one or maybe 2-3 which after they won, relocated to an area they better preferred (mist). Will that still be possible after lottery? I dont know man. I hope! I certainly hope so. But I get the feeling it's going to cause way bigger headaches. I get the feeling everyone swinging their pompoms right now for the lottery system is going to be spitting fire and kicking over trash cans after they lose and all the houses fill entirely based on rng. It'll be a rage unmatched if it's not done in a way that screws over most which is kinda unavoidable if you think about it. No matter what there 'wont be enough'. Pity that.

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This.
It's actually not that difficult to get A house, providing you settle for a small in the Goblet. You can then use that stepping stone to relocate anywhere else relatively stress free.
You need to work smart, not hard.

It's the mansions and the Shirogane mediums everyone is fighting each other for. And by all means, put THOSE on the lottery. I agree that no one needs to be battling dozens of other players for the fastest log inn which is what happens for those highly sought after plots.

But Goblet smalls? Easy. ANYONE can grab one. I've literally never seen every goblet ward full on my world, at any point in time.
Pick one up stress free, then relocate.

That's no longer an option with the lottery. Now even those easy pickings in the Goblet will be a coin toss, and relocation won't be an option.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This.
It's actually not that difficult to get A house, providing you settle for a small in the Goblet. You can then use that stepping stone to relocate anywhere else relatively stress free.
You need to work smart, not hard.

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The relocation advantage has been removed as of 6.0. Relocating now works under same terms as direct buying.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

The relocation advantage has been removed as of 6.0. Relocating now works under same terms as direct buying.

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Like I said, no longer possible.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

How many lotteries have you won?

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Using "lottery" was a massive mistake on Square Enix's part when describing the new system, and this response proves it. They should have called it a raffle instead. And I have won a couple of raffles in my life (one for a pretty nice TV, in fact).

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Like I said, no longer possible.

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With lottery was what you said. It's currently not possible and will likely not be possible again, regardless of lottery or first come.

I'm all for the lottery system. Everyone that wants a shot, gets a shot. No need to stand around and click a placard.

I think players need to consider people other than themselves. Sure, maybe some players want to stand around and click a placard. But most don't. And the willingness to stand around and do something pointlessly with a high possibility of no-gain is an outdated MMO concept. The way I see it, lottery works for everyone. Even the players that want to click a placard, they don't have to. They get their ticket and move on. And for players that don't want to click a placard, they get their ticket and move on.