https://i.imgur.com/tRt9YF4.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
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11-06-2021, 12:48 PMRoda
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11-06-2021, 12:49 PMValkyrie_LennethI think the scales here are a bit different, but we're well past people caring apparently. May as well have delayed until next June the way some people act around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
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11-06-2021, 12:49 PMCyllaSome of us have to put in PTO well ahead of time and can't just wing it on short notice. Maybe you can, but I sure the hell can't with the pos company I work for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
In other words, don't be rude just because people are upset that their PTO time now wasted.
Yeah it sucks, I'm not mad, but some weeks notice would've been nice and not just getting it handed down now so close to release. Maybe, if I had known sooner I'd been able to adjust my PTO, but now even if I remove it, I won't be able to take off that week in Dec due to short notice. -
11-06-2021, 12:50 PMHyoMinParkThat doesn’t really mean people can’t still be upset or disappointed. You’re missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
Actually, my friends and I don’t all have the same work schedules. I work 7am to 6pm during the week. My friend from the UK is, well, from the UK. So she is in a completely different country from the rest of our group of friends (NA based). One of my friends works evening shifts, so I’m getting off work while he’s still in the midst of his shift. I don’t work weekends, but some of my friends do, or work alternate weekends, so there’s another thing to consider. We had all taken Early Access off for ease of no-life-ing the expansion just as we have done for the others. It’s very presumptuous of you to think that we’ll have just as easy a time making this time after the fact when we aren’t taking time off for it. This was a collaborative thing we all did to enjoy EW together.Quote:
2nd. You can still be on the same level, and point in story level, if you play with your friends. If you've already coordinated to play on launch day, you can coordinate too after.
Layoffs were not a factor in this delay. There were no layoffs in the development team. So that is an irrelevant argument to even present here. As for putting myself in their shoes—well I work in accounting, so I’m not a game developer—however, if I know that there have been a myriad of issues regarding server stability for the last several weeks/months, I would have likely looked at scheduling QA testing a lot sooner than two or three weeks prior to the launch of a major expansion. Maybe this was out of their control and they couldn’t have done it more in advance—but I find that a little difficult to believe.Quote:
With all due respect though. Look at it from their shoes. Put yourself in the shoes of a game developer/producer just once, if you knew anything of game dev you would see how incredibly difficult it is, especially with layoffs, and so much more.
You are, though. You’re telling us that “it’s a you problem” for taking time off to enjoy a game launch. That’s the same as telling us how to feel. You’re basically saying we can’t be upset because we made the active decision to take time off for the launch that they gave no inkling of indication might possibly be delayed due to extenuating circumstances that you keep bringing up (e.g., COVID-19, layoffs, hardware shortages, whatever—none of those were the issue here, but devil’s advocate).Quote:
Im not telling people how to feel, but they should atleast be realistic. I can't think of any MMO or patch in recent time that has come out on time.
They’ve never delayed a major expansion before. When they announce a release date for an expansion, it comes out on that day. They’ve never delayed it or changed the date. In terms of patches, they only delayed one patch—3.1. COVID-19 was a bit different, but they never announced a patch release date only to come back two weeks later and say “we have to push back release two weeks because of x, y, z”. They always stuck to their date. You can argue extenuating circumstances, sure—but there was no indication that the launch wouldn’t be smooth and/or subject to change. They spoke as if Nov 19th/23rd was set in stone.Quote:
People in this game are toxic. But seriously please explain to how no one could have atleast expected a delay to come to the game.
My main complaint is less about the delay (though I’m still disappointed that I have to wait a bit longer for SGE and EW), and more about how they waited until two weeks prior to announce. I wish it had been sooner because it is generally easier to move around time off requests when you have more time to work with. And I think there’s other in my boat as well: a lot of jobs don’t allow you to change requests off two weeks prior.
This thread is people being upset. Which they have a right to be. And others coming to white knight and tell those that are upset (and being cordial/calm about it) that they have no right to be because reasons. Or because “Well I’m not upset so idk why you all are, entitled gamers/first world problems blah blah blah”. It isn’t about them thinking the development team aren’t human beings.Quote:
And no. People are not aware that the developer teams are human. This thread proves it. If they did. This thread wouldnt exist. People would've already done as is. As someone who works in software, trust me. The extra time they need to get this out, is very much needed.
You think that they’ll suddenly get that now?Quote:
A 40 hour work week? To them would be a blessing for them. 100%
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
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11-06-2021, 12:51 PMRitsukoSonodaIn my case its been 10 hours minimum per day working + having to do some of it at home as well since this pandemic started. It's resulted in a very noticeable increase in my income but also a sharp increase in my fatigue and stress levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
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11-06-2021, 12:51 PMLisSquidThat's exactly where I'm at. I don't care about the delay at all, but did they really think that waiting until the Live Letter was the way to go about it? It just put a cloud on the rest of it, because I felt a sudden panic as I have to explain to my FC/static that I will need special handling to be on the same page as them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardthorne
It's not game breaking, enjoyment destroying, or going to make me resentful of SE. It's just aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa that they sat on this information for so long and used it as the opening message before a highly anticipated Live Letter. -
11-06-2021, 12:52 PMDogempireTbf I think the biggest issue is the fact that the delay happened at a point where we were close enough to the release to believe that there wouldn't be oneQuote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
I don't blame the devs for having to push back the expansion considering all the craziness in 2020, but man does it suck being told of the delay so close to the original release date
I'm kind of glad the general consensus isn't just anger and that the people who are genuinely angry are in the minority (Not that I blame them for being angry anyways) -
11-06-2021, 12:53 PMGemina
They must have seen my threads on revised Mudra system and AST cards. My bad y'all!
Totally kidding. Sort of ;p -
11-06-2021, 12:53 PMPTgamerguy
Wonder if I can get access to Stormblood and Shadowbringers earlier? I'm returning from a 5 year hiatus and pre-ordered Endwalkers as I noticed it gives access to the previous expansions. I realized later that I wouldn't get access until Endwalkers went live, which is no big deal, but now that the release date is pushed back it leaves me wondering if they can open up those expansions to those of us that pre-ordered Endwalkers. Probably a long shot, but one could hope.
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11-06-2021, 12:54 PMAnonicatQuote:
Originally Posted by Cylla
Neither can I. And if Endwalker released on the 19th. I still couldn't take off the time. It's black friday week, and that means everyone has to work. No exceptions, unless medical.
I still won't be able to take time off for Endwalker even with the Delay.
And I'd say im not really rude. But how many times must people learn taking time off for a video game, when there is a chance a game might get delayed.. gonna have to happen until people learn?
Feel however you want. But when taking PTO for a video game off, put in more thought than just. Developers said it releases now.. so i take PTO off then. Look at the trends off them delaying stuff, what the world is going through, and what their developers are going through probably mentally to just get this expansion out to people unbroken. -
11-06-2021, 12:55 PMKatie_KittyI don't know what you think you're accomplishing besides to obnoxiously talk down to someone for no good reason. Take a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
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11-06-2021, 12:56 PMMrSmiley*shakes fist*Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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11-06-2021, 12:56 PMlezard21
@all the people saying "but did you see yoshi-p cry on stream doe": yes we did. We feel bad for him because we know the stress he must be going through. No one is blaming him, but him being upset doesn't suddenly invalidate everyone's complaints. Because Yoshi-P is a developer in FFXIV. He doesn't own FFXIV. The company, Square Enix, does.
And as a company, if they set a deadline at which the game will be released, it's their responsibility to make sure they meet it.
SPECIALLY since content was cut in order to meet this deadline, and specially with the amount of attention the game's been getting lately.
Hire more people, reassing people from other teams, push back the OCE server release, spend less resources in promoting the game and more in actually developing the game, DO NOT kidnap the game's head developer into developing another game no one asked for nor cared for more than a decade (because it's time Square Enix faces the reality that no one cares about main line FF games anymore after 3 failures). And if the world suddenly exploding is still causing you issues early on in the development cycle push the release date back then and there just to be safe, not 2 weeks before the deadline.
Anywho that's my 2 "wow u so toxic" cents. wks are welcome -
11-06-2021, 12:56 PMKolsykolI mean, isn't that what people are doing towards the devs too?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
In game dev it's not always that simple, in some cases too many cooks can even make it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
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11-06-2021, 12:56 PMRodaI pretty much missed the first section of the LL 'cause I was busy drafting a big ol apology and request message to my boss to get the PTO that I HOUNDED her to get settled for the 19th (retail, holiday rush, blackout days etc.) fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
The delay is whatever, would've probably lined up better for me, but this short notice is gonna be killer. :( -
11-06-2021, 12:57 PMDuskaneyeah the delay news has just made the Live letter a bit of a downerQuote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
like ive been interested and excited for this small pvp they have been hinting at but right now i cant bring myself to care
as said problem isn't the delay its just the short notice
its great they want the launch to be perfect and this delay adds more pressure to the dev team for it to be perfect aswell
and i hope it is or people will just put it against the devs when something goes wrong -
11-06-2021, 12:57 PMJin-True. Reason why I cut off my sleep time to 4-5 hours. It makes me moody but at least I have more time to breatheQuote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
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11-06-2021, 12:58 PMKatie_KittyNo, people are rightfully expressing their annoyance with how bad the devs have flubbed this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
It's one thing to cut content to avoid delays. It's one thing to accept a delay in order to meet the content expectation in place. But when you cut content only to STILL delay the game at the last minute, then you messed up big time. You did the absolute worst thing you could have done in that scenario. And yes people have the right to be upset. -
11-06-2021, 12:59 PMChocoPuniWow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
Sitting in a comfortable office with snacks, gyms, air-conditioning is "10x times harder than any job anyone here working"??
I'm sick of this "ohmygosh game developers are SUFFERING!" non-sense. Yes, harassment is bad and yes, crunch is bad. But it seems nobody has any idea how the reality is like. Even if you are being forced to crunch, you're still going to get paid for it. You're not working for free. Even if you are getting harassed, you can always find another job. Especially if you have enough experience and resume to get hired at a big IT company to begin with. I can't get hired at a freaking Walgreens. Even if you get laid off, you'll be okay.
Game developers aren't suffering. They are spending days in well-designed offices with A/C, food, drinks and gym. Every crunch is being paid for (and if not, you can sue them and expect to win, especially nowadays and especially in countries where laws matter), every harassment can be reported. You guys act like game developers live in Soviet Russia, work overtime and don't get even the non - over-time money. My grandparents worked at a government job in Soviet Union and a lot of people in the village had to go on FOR MONTHS without a paycheck they've earned. They had to make food themselves (because the stores would only have the most basic ingredients and no "ready in 10 minutes meal"), while also paying for bills and other necessities.
If you want to go pity someone and say "they're suffering", at least do it to someone who actually has a hard time.
This is the problem with modern culture - you are all pretending that the third-world doesn't exist, that the history and other things don't exist. You do NOT feel bad or try to do anything to help anyone who actually suffers, yet you have the audacity to act like people who sit in the offices are suffering so so so very much. Unless the media forces you to acknowledge some issues people experience, you won't even blink an eye. You won't blink an eye on the German and Russian immigrants who take me to work on taxi for misery money just because nobody else hires them (or me), you won't blink your eye on my coworkers who have to work in terrible conditions; on the woman who used to work at my workplace half of her life and still can't earn more than she used to.
But sure, they're suffering. These poor, poor IT people are absolutely starving. When are we going to set up a GoFundMe for those poor souls??? -
11-06-2021, 12:59 PMVahlnirI think they would have benefited from announcing the delay when they knew it was going to happen, maybe through a letter made by Yoshi P pasted on the Lodestone or something. That way the bad news was already over and done with and they could focus on trying to keep the hype train going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
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11-06-2021, 12:59 PMHyoMinParkPeople are more upset that they decided to wait until two weeks before launch to announce the delay. Are they upset about the delay itself? Sure. But a lot of us are more upset by the fact that now we have to rearrange time off if we are able to. A lot of us aren’t able to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmiley
Posts like this really miss some of the reasons why people are expressing their frustration. Voicing this also will, hopefully, provide feedback for the future should this ever happen again: try to announce a delay sooner. I get wanting to do all they could possibly do to prevent the delay—but it would be far better to at least say “it may be delayed” a month or more before launch even if it isn’t, than “We know that the release was for Nov 19th/23rd, and that it’s Nov 5th—but we have to push back the expansion”. Advanced notice is always the better notice. I hope this is constructive feedback SE and the developers can consider for the future. -
11-06-2021, 01:01 PMRobynDaBankQuoted before "byeeee"!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
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11-06-2021, 01:01 PMCyllaSure it a risk we all take, but there no reason if they knew on the 29th that it was gonna be delayed to not say something then. That part disappoint me more then the push back. They should have said something then, not now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
Everyone gonna have different opinions, still, it does come off rude when you say something like, "At least I didn't use PTO." props to you my friend, but don't trash on the rest of us who did in hopes of being able to take some time off from work and play a game with friends and family. We're allowed to be disappointed. Not in a rude way towards the devs or others of course. -
11-06-2021, 01:02 PMPoporito_PopotoAt least you can't 'Thread closed' this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
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11-06-2021, 01:03 PMAnonicatL o L. Im not talking down to anyone. It's simple as. Expect delays especially with the way the world is, and maybe people wouldnt be upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
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11-06-2021, 01:03 PMAyer2015Are you seriously whining about a two week delay of a video game..... I swear people need some perspective in life. I'm sure you'll survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
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11-06-2021, 01:04 PMTlachtgamy university course is literally game dev. i know how game dev works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonicat
anyway it was more a stab at your outright delusional post.
you started crying about "stop being upset at this REEEEE". you never even mentioned a reason outside "game dev hard"Quote:
I'm telling people their are good reasons for this.
no one even said it was easy, hell, most ppl don't even care about the delay itself. they just annoyed that they left the decision to inform about the delay so close to the line.
terrible posts do seem to be your domain. i'll refer to the expertQuote:
Terrible comeback tho :)
feeling's mutual.Quote:
And I don't care how you feel. LMAO.
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11-06-2021, 01:04 PMlezard21Which is why I work in a pharmaceutical and not developing games. We each should know the ins and outs of our works in order to meet deadlines efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
In my case if I fail to meet a deadline, the consequences can range from something as mild as extra paperwork to medicine supply shortage in retail stores. -
11-06-2021, 01:05 PMAnonicatNice strawman. Have you ever built a game before? Or done software development?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
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11-06-2021, 01:06 PMVahlnirThe frustration is understandable for anyone who holds a job and chose to schedule some time off to play. Most people aren't upset about the delay itself. They just wanted to be notified sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayer2015
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11-06-2021, 01:06 PMIDontPetLalassome of your points could of helped, it's hard for us to tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
Maybe Yoshi did have his attention on other projects. Well, that's between him and SE, he's an adult, I recently had too many projects to manage and was able to hand off part of one. We have no way of knowing if that was an issue.
Hiring more people? Maybe- but any new people have to be onboarded, that"s not always so fast to ramp in SW projects, depending on the role, it can take weeks or months.
Spending less resources on marketing and more on development? No idea, we have no idea, maybe they have a large enough team.
They actually do seem to have their priorities in order, as server issues that pop up and the upcoming release- they're working on the backend (server stabilization). -
11-06-2021, 01:06 PMFredco191
Damn. This is unfortunate.
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11-06-2021, 01:07 PMRitsukoSonodaIMO it's not the devs most of us feel flubbed things here. It was the lack of communication in regards to this delay announcement. Yes it was fairly transparent when made. However signs should have been present earlier than now that this was going to happen and so people feel the announcement of the delay was itself delayed . The extremely short notice coupled with the time of year is the majority of the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
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11-06-2021, 01:08 PMAnonicatQuote:
Originally Posted by Tlachtga
I'm not crying at anything. More baffled by how people didn't expect this.
Alright that's great news.. we can start there with your game dev course. Have you built a server? Optimized it for Millions of requests per second. Have you developed assets for a video game? Sound. Cinematics. Animations. Quest Design. Story. Flow of the story.
Do any NetCode before? Like anything, outside of your course teaching you how Objected Oriented Programming works, and thats what games use mainly. I'm talking like the Code that does 80% of the work, that is the biggest obstacle to overcome when building an MMO. Then testing that code to make sure it works?
And lol "Feelings Mutual" -
11-06-2021, 01:09 PMAnonicatAlso. Just a followup. Would 3 weeks really have made a difference if they only knew about it a week ago?..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlachtga
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11-06-2021, 01:09 PMKolsykolI'd say that people are going beyond simply being disappointed and a bit annoyed when they start going after the devs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
I also think that people are assuming a whole lot, you don't know what actually happened and what the issues really are or who's responsible.
When someone makes a mistake especially when it's unintended and unpredictable then I think it's kinda shitty to throw it in their face, especially when you're throwing your.... Upsettteneneddness around wildly when you actually don't know the details and what really happened and why.
I do think it's toxic, it's basically just venting for the sake of venting at the expense of other people about things you really don't know.
I mean actually think about what you're saying right now, do you think that they knew that the delay was going to happen when they decided to cut the content you're talking about?
No they didn't...
It becomes pretty ridiculous to bring that up as an argument because it had nothing to do with the delay and they can't tell the future and it's ultimately unrelated.
If anything it'd be more likely that it could've made the delay worse. -
11-06-2021, 01:10 PMlezard21Again, I'm not a game developing company nor do I work on one, in this case I am a consumer, those were just examples I tossed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas
But any international company, no matter the business sector, should know how to manage their resources and manpower to meet a deadline, or at least know with ample anticipation if they will not be making it to give a heads up to their customers.
Haven't seen this. Granted the thread is now at 20 pages so I might have missed it, but if anyone is blaming the devs then it's the minority and should not be taken into account as the voice of the complaints.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
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11-06-2021, 01:11 PMDogempireI believe you're the one who needs perspective if you can't see why people are upset and just think "It's just a video game" while ignoring the legitimate reasons people have to be upset, which happen to be littered all over the threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Ayer2015
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11-06-2021, 01:12 PMDragoAskaniWell we just have to forgive them. Small indie multi-dollar company.Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
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11-06-2021, 01:13 PMSentaryuu
I admit I am a bit disappointed in the delay. I was really looking forward to playing Endwalker in 2 weeks. :( I know they said sorry for it, but it is just I am very bored in game. I do not know what to do to wait on its release now. I just resubbed on the 1st, now I will have to resub again for it. Also I was hoping to have it during Thanksgiving, because it is my least favorite holiday and I just don't care for most of the people that come over for it.
Ah well, this will be a very boring wait for me to say the least. :( I will have Pokemon Shining Pearl, but that won't be enough I don't think. I will deal the best I can.