why so much players have a rush mentality

I don't really care too much about this.
What I care about is what happens when you wipe.

At least in this game people don't flip out and start insulting each other only to disband when people realize that moving fast isn't possible and/ or that someone is new and doesn't know what to do people are actually quite patient.

people can't even wait in traffic without honking

Didn't read much past the OP so not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you ever see posts from NINs or ASTs (especially on Reddit where it's more of a meme) complaining about tanks moving all mobs out of their ground AoE?

Yeah, that's because of the rush mentality. Sometimes it's a case of the tank not knowing what it is, but at 80, it's absolutely due to the "GO, GO, GO" mindset.

Don't get me wrong, I love a fast run as much as the next person, but sometimes it can actually hurt the group. Not to mention pre-80, when tanks YOLO pull. Nine times out 10 it's a wipe. I don't care if you're overgeared or not. Healers don't have their whole toolkit before 80. Especially if it's a 50 or 60 dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Didn't read much past the OP so not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you ever see posts from NINs or ASTs (especially on Reddit where it's more of a meme) complaining about tanks moving all mobs out of their ground AoE?

Yeah, that's because of the rush mentality. Sometimes it's a case of the tank not knowing what it is, but at 80, it's absolutely due to the "GO, GO, GO" mindset.

Don't get me wrong, I love a fast run as much as the next person, but sometimes it can actually hurt the group. Not to mention pre-80, when tanks YOLO pull. Nine times out 10 it's a wipe. I don't care if you're overgeared or not. Healers don't have their whole toolkit before 80. Especially if it's a 50 or 60 dungeon.

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I have very rarely witnessed a large pull go wrong, regardless of dungeon level. It happens every once in a while, but certainly not enough to raise concerns over it.

As for tanks moving mobs out of NIN's mud pit and various other similar AoEs to pull more, if the DPS drops their AoE the second something is pulled, I'm afraid that's on them. Always wait a moment to see if the tank pulls small or big before unloading. Of course, there's also tanks who just move out of those AoEs because they don't understand what they are or tanks who take off halfway through a pull to get more (I hate that. Either pull big or pull small but make up your dang mind!). I rarely see those, thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

The more important question is why you feel you're entitled to slowing the whole group's progress on your own?

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As someone who is leveling a healer for the first time. Some of these big pulls frankly are too much for me. Not a prayer in Hades of not loosing someone when the tank wall to walls in a dungeonn I am on lvl for and still learning what I am doing. Unfortunately very few tanks take the blame for not paying attention to what I can handle and over pulling. I catch the heat from the tank and everyone else.

It has only happened twice so far but good god they were nasty about it. Once to going OOM from chain pulls and huge damage to the tank and one to too many Bees pulled.

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Originally Posted by Lexis

I have very rarely witnessed a large pull go wrong, regardless of dungeon level. It happens every once in a while, but certainly not enough to raise concerns over it.

As for tanks moving mobs out of NIN's mud pit and various other similar AoEs to pull more, if the DPS drops their AoE the second something is pulled, I'm afraid that's on them. Always wait a moment to see if the tank pulls small or big before unloading. Of course, there's also tanks who just move out of those AoEs because they don't understand what they are or tanks who take off halfway through a pull to get more (I hate that. Either pull big or pull small but make up your dang mind!). I rarely see those, thankfully.

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Honestly, I see wipes frequently in low level dungeons when the tank starts sprinting the second the barrier drops, and pulls everything. This is not a one time thing. It happens in pugs quite a bit. Healers don’t have all their skills yet, or they are unavailable when synced. They simply can’t keep up with the amount of damage the tank is taking even if the tank is using their defensive CDs. Not to mention the DPS don’t have all their skills either, so large packs of mobs will take longer to burn down:

Again, at 80 I’m all for pulling large and speeding through a dungeon. But at low levels I’d much rather the tank take their time to ensure we don’t wipe, which will actually make the run longer.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Honestly, I see wipes frequently in low level dungeons when the tank starts sprinting the second the barrier drops, and pulls everything. This is not a one time thing. It happens in pugs quite a bit. Healers don’t have all their skills yet, or they are unavailable when synced. They simply can’t keep up with the amount of damage the tank is taking even if the tank is using their defensive CDs. Not to mention the DPS don’t have all their skills either, so large packs of mobs will take longer to burn down:

Again, at 80 I’m all for pulling large and speeding through a dungeon. But at low levels I’d much rather the tank take their time to ensure we don’t wipe, which will actually make the run longer.

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Ironically enough, my very first dungeon as a healer, Sastasha, the tank would run around pulling absolutely everything he could, sometimes 4 packs at a time, with 2 melee DPS that have no AoE at that level. We did have a wipe or two in there because, as you mentioned, at that level I just didn't have the tools to handle that kind of damage. I left that dungeon feeling like the worst healer in the world but thankfully learned quickly this isn't how these dungeons usually go. There is such a thing as going overboard with the whole 'speeeeed' approach, but, and this may be a Data Center thing, these occurrences have been very rare for me.

And speaking of low level dungeons, I've picked up tanking recently, currently 40 WAR, and have been leveling through dungeons because it's fun. I don't do small pulls (but no Wall 2 Wall either), I take off as the last mob from a pull dies and only ever stop if someone's watching a cutscene (I wait for them to be done before pulling). I've yet to die (though there have been some close calls, not gonna lie, but nothing a lil' potion and proper CD usage couldn't fix) and every run has been quick n easy. As long as you don't go overboard and pay attention to your teammate's, you can do some fast runs even in lower level dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Didn't read much past the OP so not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but you ever see posts from NINs or ASTs (especially on Reddit where it's more of a meme) complaining about tanks moving all mobs out of their ground AoE?

Yeah, that's because of the rush mentality. Sometimes it's a case of the tank not knowing what it is, but at 80, it's absolutely due to the "GO, GO, GO" mindset.

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What a crock. That’s not caused by a rush mentality. It’s from people having party effects off. It’s from tanks giving poor signals of when they are actually stopping. A lot of tanks wil pause, hit a few times, and decide to move again. In the few hits, it can seem like the tank is making their stand there, so people drop stationary skills. Nope. Tanks on the move again.
Explain to me how it has anything to do with a rush mentality as opposed to a tank just taking too long to make their intentions clear. I’ll wait

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Respect ,one day you may find your own. If they don't even pretend to respect the tank why will the tank be respectful to them.

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Respect goes both ways. Why are you not respectful of the party members time? Why not respect the veteran players who have gotten this down to a science? Did you ever come to the community and ask people what is considered okay? Talk to your party about pulling just two packs, if they say pull more, pull more.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Someone jumping ahead and grabbing mobs then bringing them back to your AOE spam is the opposite of disrespect. They are helping you. Accept their help by simply continuing to press AOE buttons like you were before.

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I don't agree with this, it's not helpful and just slow things down. Let the tank drive the bus and if you want them to speed up, tell them. If they ignore you, get a new bus driver.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I don't agree with this, it's not helpful and just slow things down. Let the tank drive the bus and if you want them to speed up, tell them. If they ignore you, get a new bus driver.

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Some people do say to pull more in chat. Some don't. Either way, I take the action of a DPS pulling stuff to me as them saying "Tank please pull more." I don't need them to type. A LOT of players literally can't do it because console. The standard of "Just say something" doesn't work because a large portion of the player base CANNOT say anything quickly without making a macro for it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

What a crock. That’s not caused by a rush mentality. It’s from people having party effects off. It’s from tanks giving poor signals of when they are actually stopping. A lot of tanks wil pause, hit a few times, and decide to move again. In the few hits, it can seem like the tank is making their stand there, so people drop stationary skills. Nope. Tanks on the move again.
Explain to me how it has anything to do with a rush mentality as opposed to a tank just taking too long to make their intentions clear. I’ll wait

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And explain to me how it doesn’t? What you just said could certainly be the case for some tanks, sure, but not 100% all of them. Sometimes it’s GO GO GO, sometimes it’s poor communication. But it’s not 100% either all the time.

Hope you weren’t waiting long.

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Originally Posted by Lium

And explain to me how it doesn’t? What you just said could certainly be the case for some tanks, sure, but not 100% all of them. Sometimes it’s GO GO GO, sometimes it’s poor communication. But it’s not 100% either all the time.

Hope you weren’t waiting long.

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You haven't explained how it's a "go go go" thing. They've already explained to you how it isn't. The entirety of your explanation was just "sometimes it's the rush mentality." How? Don't just repeat your last point and think that explains anything.

I wonder if people who complain about this kind of thing have played many other games in the genre. This game is actually unbelievably forgiving when it comes to speed or being left behind;

In many many other games, dungeons and other group content pretty much plays out like Praetorium back when the cutscenes were skippable.

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Originally Posted by Ottkins

Some of us don't have time to throw away.
Job, studies, other pending obligations looming...
There's a dungeon to do and I'd rather do it than sit idly by sniffing the flowers.

I main tank, usually I do big pulls and don't dawdle, but it never hurts to check how geared/competent the healer is.

As for people who pull instead of the tank...

If someone runs ahead of me while I am playing tank and starts pulling, I don't take aggro and turn stance off.
If they want to tank so badly, I let them.

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So which is it? You pull big and dont dawdle or you don't pull all the mobs and leave some for the dps to go grab so you can pull your temper tantrum? I am not sure why so many other tanks have this you pull it you tank it mentality, its so childish and petty. It's so easy to grab aggro these days. We literally have to press just one button to AoE and grab the agro back. Pull up your big boy pants and do your job.

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Originally Posted by Delis

So which is it? You pull big and dont dawdle or you don't pull all the mobs and leave some for the dps to go grab so you can pull your temper tantrum? I am not sure why so many other tanks have this you pull it you tank it mentality, its so childish and petty. It's so easy to grab aggro these days. We literally have to press just one button to AoE and grab the agro back. Pull up your big boy pants and do your job.

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Because some people have this misconception that tank is the leader of the group which is not true.
Just because "you" play a tank, doesn't mean that "you" set up the pace. The entire group does.

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Originally Posted by Ottkins

Some of us don't have time to throw away.
Job, studies, other pending obligations looming...
There's a dungeon to do and I'd rather do it than sit idly by sniffing the flowers.

I main tank, usually I do big pulls and don't dawdle, but it never hurts to check how geared/competent the healer is.

As for people who pull instead of the tank...

If someone runs ahead of me while I am playing tank and starts pulling, I don't take aggro and turn stance off.
If they want to tank so badly, I let them.

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Some of us don't have time to throw away, that's why I intentionally prolong the content and perform intentional MPK if someone tries to speed it up because I chose not to, thereby literally throwing my time away.

Do you realize that's how you sound? Regardless still if you yourself have "time to throw away", intentionally killing your party is itself against the terms of service. And for what, to prove your point that you're a stubborn slowpoke because he wanted to prove a point that we can handle big pulls because stuff in 99% of dungeons in this game literally tickles enough that a dps can handle single pulls?

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

what I truly do not get is; the DPS or healer pulling doesn't mean they disrespect the tank, it's actually the opposite like xirean said. they respect the tank's ability to handle it without issues, but most importantly, to not behave like a baby whose toy fell on the floor

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What I don't understand is why people that want to be in the lead don't go as tank? If they want to help then ask to see if the tank need or even want it. As what they do is force them self.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Respect goes both ways. Why are you not respectful of the party members time? Why not respect the veteran players who have gotten this down to a science? Did you ever come to the community and ask people what is considered okay? Talk to your party about pulling just two packs, if they say pull more, pull more.

I don't agree with this, it's not helpful and just slow things down. Let the tank drive the bus and if you want them to speed up, tell them. If they ignore you, get a new bus driver.

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Well jump to conclusions we are I see.
I asking people 100% of the time if they want fast or normal pull. But lots of time before I finish asking the dps or healer pulled for me. Now if after I ask them to not do it next time and they react it's ok. But when not it's a problem.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

What I don't understand is why people that want to be in the lead don't go as tank? If they want to help then ask to see if the tank need or even want it. As what they do is force them self.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Well jump to conclusions we are I see.
I asking people 100% of the time if they want fast or normal pull. But lots of time before I finish asking the dps or healer pulled for me. Now if after I ask them to not do it next time and they react it's ok. But when not it's a problem.

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I love that you posted saying not to jump to a conclusion right after jumping to a conclusion. Why do you assume they want to lead?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I love that you posted saying not to jump to a conclusion right after jumping to a conclusion. Why do you assume they want to lead?

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As it's what they actually do? The take the lead and pull more. I know in your delusional world it's called helping but it's take the lead.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

As it's what they actually do? The take the lead and pull more. I know in your delusional world it's called helping but it's take the lead.

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The tank leads the party because it's the most beneficial not because it's their job.
Having a tank in this game makes certain dungeons easier but it is by no means required.
A tank pulling does a few things: It centers the damage on one party member who just so happens to be the tankiest. This largely removes attention required from the healer to look out for split chip damage on the party and also makes it so they don't have to worry about getting aggro themselves. Because the damage is centered this allows for larger pulls because it becomes a hps vs dps situation on the tank's health bar.

There is no pull in this entire game that requires a tank, most bosses don't even require a tank in content that requires a "pull".
If given a choice in the queue/roulette system you would probably see more people simply going 4 dps, 3 dps & 1 tank, 3 dps & 1 healer than the usual 2 dps & 1 tank & 1 healer.

Take lead, pull more, take point. It's all sophistry & semantics.

The job of the tank is to benefit the party by holding aggro that's it, the game doesn't care how efficient you are at it just like it doesn't care how efficient you are at healing.

Queueing for tank does not make you the leader of anything.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

As it's what they actually do? The take the lead and pull more. I know in your delusional world it's called helping but it's take the lead.

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Right right cause the tank is obviously the leader right? The fact that SO many people can keep telling you over and over again that the tank is not the leader, does not set the pace, and doesn't really have final say on anything by default and you keep ignoring it is getting really annoying.

But we both know that you won't ever actually listen, because in your delusion you've already decided that tank is king and all others are subservient. You don't care if people have a hard time talking due to technical or social difficulties. Because unless they say IN CHAT that they want to go faster, then they are disrespecting the tank. Despite that chat is only one avenue of communication and using abilities is another. One that you not only don't understand, but don't care to try. And if you really think that tank is the leader and you're going to hold true to that one concept, then maybe take the immediate feed back of those in your runs and be a better leader.

When a tank says they alone set the pace, I always wish deep down they'd finally suffer the triple leech combo where they're basically 95% of party dps.

They'll start to realize just how little they alone set a pace. Because as it turns out, everyone's got a job to do in setting that.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

When a tank says they alone set the pace, I always wish deep down they'd finally suffer the triple leech combo where they're basically 95% of party dps.

They'll start to realize just how little they alone set a pace. Because as it turns out, everyone's got a job to do in setting that.

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God that would be something.

On JP worlds it's etiquette to respect the tank's pace, so for years long i've almost never seen players rush ahead and pull mobs instead of the tank.
Now that i'm on Tonberry i do see it quite often. People pre-pull in dungeons or in alliance raids just because they can't be bothered to wait a couple more seconds ...

Though to be honest, when i go for a roulette and the tank is slow, it does make me sigh every once in a while (especially as a healer) ... So in the end i'm not sure what to think of this. Maybe i'm just a boomer that gets irritated at everything :D

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

The tank leads the party because it's the most beneficial not because it's their job.
Having a tank in this game makes certain dungeons easier but it is by no means required.
A tank pulling does a few things: It centers the damage on one party member who just so happens to be the tankiest. This largely removes attention required from the healer to look out for split chip damage on the party and also makes it so they don't have to worry about getting aggro themselves. Because the damage is centered this allows for larger pulls because it becomes a hps vs dps situation on the tank's health bar.

There is no pull in this entire game that requires a tank, most bosses don't even require a tank in content that requires a "pull".
If given a choice in the queue/roulette system you would probably see more people simply going 4 dps, 3 dps & 1 tank, 3 dps & 1 healer than the usual 2 dps & 1 tank & 1 healer.

Take lead, pull more, take point. It's all sophistry & semantics.

The job of the tank is to benefit the party by holding aggro that's it, the game doesn't care how efficient you are at it just like it doesn't care how efficient you are at healing.

Queueing for tank does not make you the leader of anything.

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Well most dungeons ate so easy you don't need any thing. You can do a no healer or no tank or onlly tank or onlly dps.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Right right cause the tank is obviously the leader right? The fact that SO many people can keep telling you over and over again that the tank is not the leader, does not set the pace, and doesn't really have final say on anything by default and you keep ignoring it is getting really annoying.

But we both know that you won't ever actually listen, because in your delusion you've already decided that tank is king and all others are subservient. You don't care if people have a hard time talking due to technical or social difficulties. Because unless they say IN CHAT that they want to go faster, then they are disrespecting the tank. Despite that chat is only one avenue of communication and using abilities is another. One that you not only don't understand, but don't care to try. And if you really think that tank is the leader and you're going to hold true to that one concept, then maybe take the immediate feed back of those in your runs and be a better leader.

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I do not ignore shit. I say time after time people need to talk it out. If you ask me if it's ok for you to pull as dps you may get a yes and I even take the monster from you.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Well most dungeons ate so easy you don't need any thing. You can do a no healer or no tank or onlly tank or onlly dps.

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which is why you pull everything! makes the game more fun too.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I do not ignore shit. I say time after time people need to talk it out. If you ask me if it's ok for you to pull as dps you may get a yes and I even take the monster from you.

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Anyone ever see this guy and ChocoPuni in the same room together?

Just curious.

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Originally Posted by Poporito_Popoto

Anyone ever see this guy and ChocoPuni in the same room together?

Just curious.

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Different people. Because Samsara ACTUALLY lets people see their posts and replies

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I do not ignore shit. I say time after time people need to talk it out. If you ask me if it's ok for you to pull as dps you may get a yes and I even take the monster from you.

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This is flat out false. Right here you are ignoring the part of my post where some players can't type. That's my primary problem with your posts. Did you ever consider that for some players (people on console) that typing could take a while and it's just easier to show you what they want rather than ask? Same thing for people who get scared/nervous to talk. When you say "people need to talk it out" you need to STOP ignoring that not everyone can or wants to talk the way you describe. That's how you are disrespecting the needs of your party and a large chunk of the player base. The fact you expect a DPS to ask you if they can pull is ridiculous. You should just be pulling it off them anyway. It's your one purpose in a party, to hold agro. Now stop making excuses to not do that.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Well most dungeons ate so easy you don't need any thing. You can do a no healer or no tank or onlly tank or onlly dps.

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All this is true when they are out geared and no longer relevent..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

All this is true when they are out geared and no longer relevent..

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Some of the 80 dungeons don't need to be over geared to do it. Just to know how to play good.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

This is flat out false. Right here you are ignoring the part of my post where some players can't type. That's my primary problem with your posts. Did you ever consider that for some players (people on console) that typing could take a while and it's just easier to show you what they want rather than ask? Same thing for people who get scared/nervous to talk. When you say "people need to talk it out" you need to STOP ignoring that not everyone can or wants to talk the way you describe. That's how you are disrespecting the needs of your party and a large chunk of the player base. The fact you expect a DPS to ask you if they can pull is ridiculous. You should just be pulling it off them anyway. It's your one purpose in a party, to hold agro. Now stop making excuses to not do that.

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What console don't have a way to use chat?
Take you a min to do it? Ok I don't rush no one. I do get what you say don't get me wrong. As for dps that pull in my place. If I don't take it of them it's clearly not the first time they do it or they was ride from the get go. As far as people are nice ( say hi at the start and to me you are nice) all be fast and good. Problem is when people think all will tolerate the abusive way the act.

Honestly yes, as a new-ish player i still have some content i cant even think of doing because of people who only want to unsync older content and finish a trial in under 1 second or so. This is my only problem at the moment...oh and being unable to mute my healers macros... is there a way to disable custom text or something?

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

What console don't have a way to use chat?
Take you a min to do it? Ok I don't rush no one. I do get what you say don't get me wrong. As for dps that pull in my place. If I don't take it of them it's clearly not the first time they do it or they was ride from the get go. As far as people are nice ( say hi at the start and to me you are nice) all be fast and good. Problem is when people think all will tolerate the abusive way the act.

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To some, the expectation of talking is rude/abuse. You acknowledge that console take a while to talk, but you don't acknowledge that the person behind that console may not consider that effort worth it. Using an ability is faster. Using an ability doesn't require you to simulate a voice. People who don't say anything are just as nice as those who say nothing. There is no expectation that people must communicate in chat, built into this game. You're still trying to go into your per-defined success scenario where everyone asks you for shit they don't need to ask for.

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Originally Posted by Einsenn

Honestly yes, as a new-ish player i still have some content i cant even think of doing because of people who only want to unsync older content and finish a trial in under 1 second or so. This is my only problem at the moment...oh and being unable to mute my healers macros... is there a way to disable custom text or something?

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Not that I'm aware. You can blacklist the player though.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

To some, the expectation of talking is rude/abuse. You acknowledge that console take a while to talk, but you don't acknowledge that the person behind that console may not consider that effort worth it. Using an ability is faster. Using an ability doesn't require you to simulate a voice. People who don't say anything are just as nice as those who say nothing. There is no expectation that people must communicate in chat, built into this game. You're still trying to go into your per-defined success scenario where everyone asks you for shit they don't need to ask for.



Not that I'm aware. You can blacklist the player though.

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Well there a macro you can have pre made to make it faster as well. There ways some just don't see no one but the as real human.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

Well there a macro you can have pre made to make it faster as well. There ways some just don't see no one but the as real human.

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Yes you can have a macro. However I would refrain from expecting someone to have a macro. Mostly because that would mean expecting thousands of players to have a macro. Not a reasonable approach imo. Also what are you saying with that last sentence?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Yes you can have a macro. However I would refrain from expecting someone to have a macro. Mostly because that would mean expecting thousands of players to have a macro. Not a reasonable approach imo. Also what are you saying with that last sentence?

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I say that I think people like this don't see that the rest of the players are real humans and not just npc.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

I say that I think people like this don't see that the rest of the players are real humans and not just npc.

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Let me try to understand. Not saying hi and pulling ahead of the tank is treating the tank like an NPC?