Pronouns???

It isn't hypothetical. Dev resources would be required and imo wasted. It won't magically appear in the character creator.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

It isn't hypothetical. Dev resources would be required and imo wasted. It won't magically appear in the character creator.

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In a hypothetical scenario where inputting this into the game WILL NOT remove dev resources. Let's say all they have to do is flip a switch in a HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

Why would you be against it in this HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Well it's pretty useless to argue about a what If scenario don't you think.

This may be a highly controversial opinion in this time and age. I don't believe there is more than 2 genders and you are the gender you're born in. So - If I make a female character or male for that fact, they are a she and he.

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Yeah, that's what I was fishing for.

Don't talk to me again please ^.~

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

You believe in the toothfairy too?

Cause they exist hypothetical! /s

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This just in: local cat lady doesn't understand what hypotheticals are.

Anyways, I won't waste further time on people who can't be bothered to do a modicum of research. Have a nice day! ^.~

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

<Don't talk to me again please.

<Proceeds to keep editing their posts with more responses.

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I said don't talk to me, not that I would stop talking to them. I'm pretty literal in that sense. See above edit in which I say I won't waste any more time.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

Then don't post on a public forum if you cannot handle the ensuing responses. The internet does not revolve around you for your personal use. You post on a public forum, you'll get public responses.

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This just in: local scaled person doesn't understand dismissals.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

'I don't like their opinion so I'm going to bait them into saying something that'll allow me to label them a transphobe so I can be done with it that way'

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Nah. I already pretty much knew what their opinion was from the gate, I just hate when people skirt around it rather than saying it outright. If you hold opinions like that, might as well say it with your chest.

Side note: I hate how small the post limit is. :/

Well it's pretty useless to argue about a what If scenario don't you think.

This may be a highly controversial opinion in this time and age. I don't believe there is more than 2 genders and you are the gender you're born in. So - If I make a female character or male for that fact, they are a she and he.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

In a hypothetical scenario where inputting this into the game WILL NOT remove dev resources. Let's say all they have to do is flip a switch in a HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

Why would you be against it in this HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO.

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You believe in the toothfairy too?

Cause they exist hypothetical! /s

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Yeah, that's what I was fishing for.

Don't talk to me again please ^.~

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Stop replying to my comments then "^.~"
and go back to your echochamber.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Yeah, that's what I was fishing for.

Don't talk to me again please ^.~



This just in: local cat lady doesn't understand what hypotheticals are.

Anyways, I won't waste further time on people who can't be bothered to do a modicum of research. Have a nice day! ^.~

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<Don't talk to me again please.

<Proceeds to keep editing their posts with more responses.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

II said don't talk to me, not that I would stop talking to them. I'm pretty literal in that sense. See above edit in which I say I won't waste any more time.

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Then don't post on a public forum if you cannot handle the ensuing responses. The internet does not revolve around you for your personal use. You post on a public forum, you'll get public responses.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Yeah, that's what I was fishing for.

Don't talk to me again please ^.~

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'I don't like their opinion so I'm going to bait them into saying something that'll allow me to label them a transphobe so I can be done with it that way'

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

<Don't talk to me again please.

<Proceeds to keep editing their posts with more responses.

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Pretty much, they probably don't want me to see it. Says much about the person.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

There, dev resources are not wasted. Now why are you against other players being referred to by their preferred pronoun in game?

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It would in-fact, contrary to my opinion yesterday as I didn't touch on the technical aspects, be incredibly easy if the inclusion in this scenario was simply a matter of performing a switcheroo for he and she pronouns. That's not what a lot of people want, however. People want gender-neutral pronouns (which IMO to an extent violate my personal understanding of grammar in various scenarios and are confusing) and people want gender-neo pronouns. Would it not be wrong to leave those out? It wouldn't just require swapping some words out. It'll require restructuring entire sentences, to tailor to people's individual experiences of the story. Now, as you've pointed out, that's a pretty big technical issue to tackle.

In my personal experience of the game, people playing non-binary, gender non conforming, trans, etc characters have simply had their character model reflect that (and of course everyone has a different idea of masculine and feminine to an extent, I mean look at the thread OPs friend who could only get a lalafel to represent 'their' idea of what was and wasn't gender representative to them). It's not a hard thing to conceptualize in this type of universe. I find it odd that people jump to the 'pixies' of all things to shout 'this exists, this exists!', etc, you don't need to point out a mythical creature in a fantasy setting to justify the pronouns your character uses or your character's gender identity.

Something you said earlier was in regards to 'finding characters relatable', etc 'this is what this type of game is for', etc. Why does your character need to be perfectly representative of you in order for it to be relatable? I find myself asking this more and more as of late. I play this type of game to indulge in another character's story or experiences, and certain aspects of those may or may not be relatable, but that doesn't mean the character itself has to be one hundred percent representative of me. I don't have to be black, for example, to sympathize and feel a relation to the struggles of a black character, and likewise with gender. What's with this mentality that you can ONLY relate to people if they ARE you? It seems odd to me, as someone who doesn't particularly like being bound to labels and stereotypes.

Last but not least, I think this generally comes down to the player. Ultimately, you're in control of who and what your character is, as a creator, and no amount of in-game text can take that away from you.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

In the 1950s the psychologist John Money [...]

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...forced a male child with a botched circumcision (lol america) to live as a girl and had him and his brother play out sexual situations as "therapy"
despite being a normal, healthy woman after therapy (according to money), the girl 'transitioned' to become a man (again) and later both brothers committed suicide due to the experienced trauma they had at the hands of him
how this deplorable human being is seen as anything but a psychopath I don't understand
please don't use him if you're talking about trans issues

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Originally Posted by Haru304

Something you said earlier was in regards to 'finding characters relatable', etc 'this is what this type of game is for', etc. Why does your character need to be perfectly representative of you in order for it to be relatable? I find myself asking this more and more as of late. I play this type of game to indulge in another character's story or experiences, and certain aspects of those may or may not be relatable, but that doesn't mean the character itself has to be one hundred percent representative of me. I don't have to be black, for example, to sympathize and feel a relation to the struggles of a black character, and likewise with gender. What's with this mentality that you can ONLY relate to people if they ARE you? It seems odd to me, as someone who doesn't particularly like being bound to labels and stereotypes.

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Completely agreed. Like, I'm a straight white male irl, as generic and cookie cutter as it gets. Yet I play a female Au Ra in this videogame and have no issues relating to her story and struggles. Because I accept that she does not represent me, my Au Ra, Alessia, is not me. She does not need to conform to what I am, nor do I subscribe to the idea of 'i am a straight white male irl, so my character has to be the same'.

I will for context and clarity quote my earlier post on this specific view:

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Ultimately my view is this: You play a character in this setting, of a race and gender that abides by the rules of the setting. Disconnect from the character. Acknowledge that the character is not you and is not meant to represent who you are in real life. It is most definitely what I'd advise your friend to try to do. Now, in player interaction, that's an entirely different matter, you can request friends/acquaintances and if you wish attempt to ask even strangers to respect preferred pronouns. Obviously in interactions with other people it does matter more.

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It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

Honestly, while overall idk but i feel like veira and ronso need it for sure

My major query here would be on how you'd go about representing marginalized groups in a universe where these groups aren't marginalized.

No character in Eorzea is going to tell you that you don't exist on the basis of gender or sexuality.

IMO, encouraging people to live as themselves in a fantasy game because they aren't accepted in reality isn't a healthy mind set.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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And I will always call those people that place such emphasis on identification shallow. People are far more than their sex and gender, far far more. Further very few games do justice to such when they do include them. They either stereotype them or define the entire character around the trait rather than being fully fleshed out. It is almost always done for pandering rather than making a good character.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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I think when people start bringing up empathy what they're really doing, intentionally or unintentionally, is trying to apply a form of peer pressure to get the result that they desire either for themselves, another individual/group or merely to feel better about themselves.

There's also, arguably, such a thing as too much empathy. I'd also generally advise against assuming that everybody here is free of their own set of problems in life. I'd be surprised if you could find someone who didn't have any personal issues to deal with in their day to day life.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think when people start bringing up empathy what they're really doing, intentionally or unintentionally, is trying to apply a form of peer pressure to get the result that they desire either for themselves, another individual/group or merely to feel better about themselves.

There's also, arguably, such a thing as too much empathy. I'd also generally advise against assuming that everybody here is free of their own set of problems in life. I'd be surprised if you could find someone who didn't have any personal issues to deal with in their day to day life.

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To add onto this Empthay doesn't mean you always agree or don't push back on the person you are feeling empathy towards.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

My major query here would be on how you'd go about representing marginalized groups in a universe where these groups aren't marginalized.

No character in Eorzea is going to tell you that you don't exist on the basis of gender or sexuality.

IMO, encouraging people to live as themselves in a fantasy game because they aren't accepted in reality isn't a healthy mind set.

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The answer should be obvious, even if no doubt disliked: You don't. I said it earlier in the thread, a darker skinned Viera NPC won't be treated differently than a lighter skinned Viera NPC. Because skin color is not an issue in the setting, nor are people marginalized over it. Which means it makes no sense to try and forcibly make it an issue because 'real life politics' demand it. The same is true for most other such examples.

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Originally Posted by squidmonarchy

It's very easy for people who have a lot of possible representation at their fingertips to talk about how their character doesn't have to be a reflection of themselves.

But there are a lot of people out there without that luxury. When there are real people who tell you that you don't or shouldn't exist in real life, it becomes more important to see yourself or people like you in a fantasy world. And until the game decides to introduce expressly trans or non-binary characters, for example, then often the only way to do that is to bring it with you.

For some people, even in a marginalized group, that kind of thing isn't important and that's great for them. But for some people, it is important and it doesn't take much to show some basic empathy.

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But wouldn't it make a lot more sense for visibility and representation's sake to ask for square enix to include a non binary character than for a feature that you and only you will see and most likely 95% of the people will not use or know of it's existence?

idk man I'll never understand the whole pronoun thing. When there are LGBTIQ people still being killed worldwide, with many countries still outlawing and prosecuting LGBTIQ people, throwing twitter/ex-tumblr hissy fits over pronouns seems like the luxury to me

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Honestly, while overall idk but i feel like veira and ronso need it for sure

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Viera and Hrothgar need hats more than they do pronouns

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Originally Posted by lezard21

But wouldn't it make a lot more sense for visibility and representation's sake to ask for square enix to include a non binary character than for a feature that you and only you will see and most likely 95% of the people will not use or know of it's existence?

idk man I'll never understand the whole pronoun thing. When there are LGBTIQ people still being killed worldwide, with many countries still outlawing and prosecuting LGBTIQ people, throwing twitter/ex-tumblr hissy fits over pronouns seems like the luxury to me

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Thankfully SE was ahead of them in this request. They were gracious enough to add Pixies to this game. Dozens upon dozens of non-binary characters, they even featured fairly frequently in ShB. Most notably off course Feo Ul. How nice of them.

Oh, wait? They didn't expressly and every five minutes tell us that pixies are non-binary? Oh noes, how horrible of them. We need those reminders lest we forget that Pixies aren't binary!!

*note, I'm not specifically trying to make fun of you, lezard, it's more a general poking of fun at the issue.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Thankfully SE was ahead of them in this request. They were gracious enough to add Pixies to this game. Dozens upon dozens of non-binary characters, they even featured fairly frequently in ShB. Most notably off course Feo Ul. How nice of them.

Oh, wait? They didn't expressly and every five minutes tell us that pixies are non-binary? Oh noes, how horrible of them. We need those reminders lest we forget that Pixies aren't binary!!

*note, I'm not specifically trying to make fun of you, lezard, it's more a general poking of fun at the issue.

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Althought that would have been a bit obnoxious, I'd suspect the real reason they tried to be vague about is due how japanese (I mean specifically players, IDK about the staff) are still very conservative when it comes to gender and sexuality norms compared to the west. Easier not to "bother" them by not being too explicit.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Thankfully SE was ahead of them in this request. They were gracious enough to add Pixies to this game. Dozens upon dozens of non-binary characters, they even featured fairly frequently in ShB. Most notably off course Feo Ul. How nice of them.

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I don't know that Pagan, mostly northern-european folklore and myth can be retroactively assigned a side into what's possibly the most artificial and senseless debate of 2020.
While pixies, elves and many other beings that can be considered spirits, or manifestations of nature are neither male nor female, they most certainly aren't "non-binary".
Mostly the distinction in the myth was made because the most human feature was being multigenerational spirits (as in, same spirits that lives through progeny- that's what Halloween is for btw) while nature's spirits are simply immortal and thus don't require sexual characteristic as they don't need to make children to keep their spirit alive.
By extension I don't know that artists and storytellers can be boxed into one side or the other just because they take inspiration from those myths.

I've been called ungracious names when I explained this to someone else before, so just to make things clear : you can do what you want as far as I'm concerned, but please stop with the projection.
Not everything is about new-age gender politics for the 1%.

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Originally Posted by Hikelos

I don't know that Pagan, mostly northern-european folklore and myth can be retroactively assigned a side into what's possibly the most artificial and senseless debate of 2020.
While pixies, elves and many other beings that can be considered spirits, or manifestations of nature are neither male nor female, they most certainly aren't "non-binary".
Mostly the distinction in the myth was made because the most human feature was being multigenerational spirits (as in, same spirits that lives through progeny- that's what Halloween is for btw) while nature's spirits are simply immortal and thus don't require sexual characteristic as they don't need to make children to keep their spirit alive.
By extension I don't know that artists and storytellers can be boxed into one side or the other just because they take inspiration from those myths.

I've been called ungracious names when I explained this to someone else before, so just to make things clear : you can do what you want as far as I'm concerned, but please stop with the projection.
Not everything is about new-age gender politics for the 1%.

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It's stated in the game itself that the pixies are genderless. Considering "genderless" exists outside the binary, the term "non-binary" still applies here. The role of their leader is called a king and not a queen despite looking super feminine. The regular pixies are purposefully androgynous. They use gender-neutral pronouns (at least in the English version) in reference to each other in the game. I don't know how you can get through Shadowbringers without knowing this unless you skipped cutscenes or closed your eyes and plugged your ears to ignore the bits that were harmful to your psyche. The English localization team is lead by Koji Fox and he helped create the lore for the game itself so you can't brush it off as a translation thing either.

Bringing up real-world mythology has nothing at all to do with what's in the game. Just like how Tolkien's elves are nothing like real-world mythology's elves, people are allowed to take from it and adapt it however the hell they want because it's not real and it's not owned by anyone.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

It's stated in the game itself that the pixies are genderless. Considering "genderless" exists outside the binary, the term "non-binary" still applies here. The role of their leader is called a king and not a queen despite looking super feminine. The regular pixies are purposefully androgynous. They use gender-neutral pronouns (at least in the English version) in reference to each other in the game. I don't know how you can get through Shadowbringers without knowing this unless you skipped cutscenes or closed your eyes and plugged your ears to ignore the bits that were harmful to your psyche. The English localization team is lead by Koji Fox and he helped create the lore for the game itself so you can't brush it off as a translation thing either.

Bringing up real-world mythology has nothing at all to do with what's in the game. Just like how Tolkien's elves are nothing like real-world mythology's elves, people are allowed to take from it and adapt it however the hell they want because it's not real and it's not owned by anyone.

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You're completely correct, but the person you're quoting is more making a point that the pixies aren't genderless or non-binary merely to serve a real world agenda.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

It's stated in the game itself that the pixies are genderless. Considering "genderless" exists outside the binary, the term "non-binary" still applies here. The role of their leader is called a king and not a queen despite looking super feminine. The regular pixies are purposefully androgynous. They use gender-neutral pronouns (at least in the English version) in reference to each other in the game. I don't know how you can get through Shadowbringers without knowing this unless you skipped cutscenes or closed your eyes and plugged your ears to ignore the bits that were harmful to your psyche. The English localization team is lead by Koji Fox and he helped create the lore for the game itself so you can't brush it off as a translation thing either.

Bringing up real-world mythology has nothing at all to do with what's in the game. Just like how Tolkien's elves are nothing like real-world mythology's elves, people are allowed to take from it and adapt it however the hell they want because it's not real and it's not owned by anyone.

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This is a very disingenuous argument, and there's no way you don't know deep down how much you have to engage in mental gymnastics to believe this was intended, or that this happened with no peer pressure or more likely fear of getting 'cancelled' - I.E. have political activists perpetually run a campaign of Black PR against them. (Look at the many episodes during WoW's lifetime and how many times they had to bend the knee and be proactive to prevent this kind of threat)
Just read this entire thread from the start and take a shot every time someone is either "fishing" for excuses to label people Xphobic, or using vague wording to subtly imply that someone only holds the opinion they hold because of some nebulous conception of "hate", thus dehumanizing and gaslighting them.
Just take a good look at how this discussion always goes and tell me any of this comes from a place of honesty and earnestness.
It's always just fishing for negative responses, so they can compile them and use them as leverage later.

Also, to say that FFXIV Pixies take no inspiration from the pagan mythological creature of the same name because it's not a 1:1 recreation, is just as absurd.
You could make that same argument about Goblins, Bombs, Ixal, Amalj'aa, Sylphs, Kobolds, etc. on the basis that they all use the same model and thus are "androgynous non-binary icons".

These requests are on the same level as that 'reporter' asking about E*P brothels at Fanfest.

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Originally Posted by Hikelos

I don't know that Pagan, mostly northern-european folklore and myth can be retroactively assigned a side into what's possibly the most artificial and senseless debate of 2020.
While pixies, elves and many other beings that can be considered spirits, or manifestations of nature are neither male nor female, they most certainly aren't "non-binary".
Mostly the distinction in the myth was made because the most human feature was being multigenerational spirits (as in, same spirits that lives through progeny- that's what Halloween is for btw) while nature's spirits are simply immortal and thus don't require sexual characteristic as they don't need to make children to keep their spirit alive.
By extension I don't know that artists and storytellers can be boxed into one side or the other just because they take inspiration from those myths.

I've been called ungracious names when I explained this to someone else before, so just to make things clear : you can do what you want as far as I'm concerned, but please stop with the projection.
Not everything is about new-age gender politics for the 1%.

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You know the word "non binary" just means existing outside of a binary, right?

If something doesn't exist within a binary, such as immortal nature creatures, that'd be uh...

outside of the binary.

Humans make words to mean things.

This is still going on? Aren’t you ppl working or getting hyped about the fest instead of w/e this thread has become?

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Originally Posted by Alaray

You know the word "non binary" just means existing outside of a binary, right?

If something doesn't exist within a binary, such as immortal nature creatures, that'd be uh...

outside of the binary.

Humans make words to mean things.

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I am trepidations to insert myself again into this discussion, but I wish to clarify some cognitive dissonances we have in this thread. So each side knows where I stand, I don't like neo pronouns and think it is an overt extension of "woke" that is bleeding into modern American politics. That said, I also love logic. So let's logic this.

Side A: There exist only two sexes, a BINARY male-female.

Side B: Those who chose to identify outside of that must the be called NON-BINARY.

This is logically consistent. To say there is a general binary and then say something that isn't within the 0/1 concept isn't non-binary is just fallacious and genuinely arguing in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Humans make words to mean things.

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And you don't get to re-define those words with a meaning that advances your personal agenda after the fact.

By the way, case in point for this :

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Originally Posted by Hikelos

Just read this entire thread from the start and take a shot every time someone is either "fishing" for excuses to label people Xphobic, or using vague wording to subtly imply that someone only holds the opinion they hold because of some nebulous conception of "hate", thus dehumanizing and gaslighting them.
[/U]

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Flippant and obviously ridiculous statements of the kind that gets 20k likes on Twitter (from political activist circles), made with the intention of having the other person overextend and say something that can then be miscontrued to brand them as 'hateful' .
Same old tactics these people used when they spammed and astroturfed these forums about Male Viera.
Get a new playbook, this one is stale.

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Originally Posted by Hikelos

I don't know that Pagan, mostly northern-european folklore and myth can be retroactively assigned a side into what's possibly the most artificial and senseless debate of 2020.
While pixies, elves and many other beings that can be considered spirits, or manifestations of nature are neither male nor female, they most certainly aren't "non-binary".
Mostly the distinction in the myth was made because the most human feature was being multigenerational spirits (as in, same spirits that lives through progeny- that's what Halloween is for btw) while nature's spirits are simply immortal and thus don't require sexual characteristic as they don't need to make children to keep their spirit alive.
By extension I don't know that artists and storytellers can be boxed into one side or the other just because they take inspiration from those myths.

I've been called ungracious names when I explained this to someone else before, so just to make things clear : you can do what you want as far as I'm concerned, but please stop with the projection.
Not everything is about new-age gender politics for the 1%.

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Just as a for the record note: You do realize I was making fun of the entire issue, right? My actual points on this topic matter I made like 2/3 pages ago.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I am trepidations to insert myself again into this discussion, but I wish to clarify some cognitive dissonances we have in this thread. So each side knows where I stand, I don't like neo pronouns and think it is an overt extension of "woke" that is bleeding into modern American politics. That said, I also love logic. So let's logic this.

Side A: There exist only two sexes, a BINARY male-female.

Side B: Those who chose to identify outside of that must the be called NON-BINARY.

This is logically consistent. To say there is a general binary and then say something that isn't within the 0/1 concept isn't non-binary is just fallacious and genuinely arguing in bad faith.

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If your logic is informed by misinformation, you're not being as logical as you claim to be. At best, you're presenting a biased opinion as a fact. At worst, you're just lying.

I mean, even your position that there's only two sexes is not consistent with reality. For a rule like that to be an absolute, a law, for reality to abide by then reality has to actually abide by it in all cases.

Which, considering Hikelos' argument stems from twitter threads as sources (lol). I feel like I'm being pretty reasonable.

So ... if we put in a checkbox to allow people to switch between he/him and she/her ...

Does that mean SE doesn't need to add Male Viera and Female Hrothgar anymore?

Maybe this idea will *save* many, many dev resources.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

So ... if we put in a checkbox to allow people to switch between he/him and she/her ...

Does that mean SE doesn't need to add Male Viera and Female Hrothgar anymore?

Maybe this idea will *save* many, many dev resources.

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Id accept it if they remove all gender lock glamor

Please look forward to the male/female choice in character creation getting changed to type 1/type 2.

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Id accept it if they remove all gender lock glamor

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But it's not gender locked. It's sex locked.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Which, considering Hikelos' argument stems from twitter threads as sources (lol). I feel like I'm being pretty reasonable.

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Where did I use a twitter thread as a source for anything? Quote it.
If you're going to try to smear other people with such blatant lies, at the very least you need some measure of distance between the lie and source.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I mean, even your position that there's only two sexes is not consistent with reality. For a rule like that to be an absolute, a law, for reality to abide by then reality has to actually abide by it in all cases.

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This is an obviously untenable position. Exceptions are exceptions. Especially ones that cover 0.0006% of cases, such as the intersex cases you're alluding to. (Most of which don't quite like it when you use them as a cudgel and speak for them by the way)

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Originally Posted by Haru304

You're completely correct, but the person you're quoting is more making a point that the pixies aren't genderless or non-binary merely to serve a real world agenda.

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My point which I guess isn't as obvious as intended, is that what's in the game is what's in the game and worrying about what other people extrapolate from it or connecting it to real-world mythology doesn't mean anything because it's just a game. They already changed Titania from being the Queen of the Fairies to the king. Shakespearean fairies, where Queen Titania, Mustardseed, and Peaseblossom came from, had genders and relationships so FFXIV fairies are already different and off-piste from what most people are used to and from the "source material". Some people think that counts as "representation" for non-binary folks and I'm not going to tell them no since it's what they want to think and it doesn't affect me.

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Originally Posted by Hikelos

Also, to say that FFXIV Pixies take no inspiration from the pagan mythological creature of the same name because it's not a 1:1 recreation, is just as absurd.
You could make that same argument about Goblins, Bombs, Ixal, Amalj'aa, Sylphs, Kobolds, etc. on the basis that they all use the same model and thus are "androgynous non-binary icons".

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I never said that they take no inspiration. I said that there are things in the game that are adapted from things in our world, but it shouldn't be completed expected to conform to the material it came from.

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

This is still going on? Aren’t you ppl working or getting hyped about the fest instead of w/e this thread has become?

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For real I wish this thread would just die already.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

For real I wish this thread would just die already.

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I mean.. you, and Caitsithhh as well help keep it on page 1.. you help keep it alive. So you're running contrary to your stated desire for this thread to die.

If there's a particular thread I have no interest in, I simply do not post in it or read it.

It's only a few hours until the Fan Fest, at any rate - at which point the forum will shift to discussing that.