Mordion Gaol is a bad system

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

I must be imagining that big header that says "3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language" then, huh?

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>You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive

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Stop being unreasonable finding random swears offensive?

It really depends on what you were saying. For instance, if you hang out at Limsa and happen to use words that others find offensive, there is a chance you might get a report. I'm not a friend of the TOS either but that's just the way it is.

People honestly need to stop attaching themselves to this game as if it was your one and only job. It's a game. That's all it ever is and was. If this is something that's traumatizing to you, maybe it's smarter to avoid the game altogether.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Stop being unreasonable finding random swears offensive?

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I mean I don't wanna be that guy n'd all, but that clearly says "profanity or"

meaning it's either "profanity" or "reasonably offensive language"

meaning profanity is singled out here

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I assume you’re referring to one or two uses of the s word with an added e in it. To that I would say that it doesn’t matter if they break their terms of service in the MSQ. It’s their terms.

As for your question I don’t know what specifically is in the TOS but I think we’re being pedantic anyway. Why do you feel the need to be offensive and use offensive language in a video game? Because you got away with it in WoW? I don’t really understand.

In fact I don’t get cursing full stop. Seems like an anger management issue in most cases. There’s always a better word to use.

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Some people just speak that way.

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Originally Posted by technole

What gets some people is the profanity filter is just a client-setting only, what you actually type is in the logs for the GMs to see. Doesn't matter if it's banter to buddies in a linkshell, do you know everyone in it? So you can play the context card all you want, the fact is you written your history on the servers.

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All the more reason to be careful about who you let in a FC. Particularly regarding killjoys who are easily offended by a bit of swearing...

GMs can make the call on what they find reasonable.

Say if someone handed you a completely nameless conversation in Limsa and see some swear words, you can probably read enough to know if something is worth pursuing. Maybe the conversation included some random shout that said to stop, and person who sweared didn't stop. Variables that also paint a more clearer picture if this person can be a hazard to the community.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

I mean I don't wanna be that guy n'd all, but that clearly says "profanity or"

meaning it's either "profanity" or "reasonably offensive language"

meaning profanity is singled out here

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Cool to know that people are still letting words some puritans back in the day said were bad, influence them so much as to be offended.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Stop being unreasonable finding random swears offensive?

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so we agree that it says "You may not use profanity"?

because I don't find random swears offensive, but I do recognize what the words "you may not use profanity" mean in terms of what is a punishable offense.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Cool to know that people are still letting words some puritans back in the day said were bad, influence them so much as to be offended.

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I ain't really arguing anything here.

Just saying that "profanity isn't even in the TOS" isn't really true, it's there, and isolated. Four's kinda going completely off the rails and their arguments aren't making too much sense at this point.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

so we agree that it says "You may not use profanity"?

because I don't find random swears offensive, but I do recognize what the words "you may not use profanity" mean in terms of what is a punishable offense.

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Read it again.

It is based off of a Japanese idea of law enforcement that no actual NA developer does because of the extreme backlash they would get. In Japan they can arrest you for no reason and then charge you with a crime once they come up with a reason from the DA. The idea of a warrant or informing you why the arrest took place is in the US constitution for a good reason.

I find it interesting they incorporated that into the game. Although NA developers do just outright suspend you but normally you are given a warning first or Blizzard will silence you account for like 72 hours.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Cool to know that people are still letting words some puritans back in the day said were bad, influence them so much as to be offended.

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It's not a matter of being offended. Stop letting edgy internet culture cloud your judgement just because someone led you to believe that anyone that points out bad behaviour is just being "offended" or a "snowflake".

The rules were made by SE. They can't catch everyone. So players are allowed to report when they see a rule being broken. Then a GM is sent to assess it and possibly dole out punishment. SE says profanity and offensive language is against the rules. You do it, and someone spots it, you might get punished. Not sure why you struggle with that concept.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Read it again.

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dunno man. "you may not use profanity" is pretty clear.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

dunno man. "you may not use profanity" is pretty clear.

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I think they mean "read it again until you agree with me".

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It's not a matter of being offended. Stop letting edgy internet culture cloud your judgement just because someone led you to believe that anyone that points out bad behaviour is just being "offended" or a "snowflake".

The rules were made by SE. They can't catch everyone. So players are allowed to report when they see a rule being broken. Then a GM is sent to assess it and possibly dole out punishment. SE says profanity and offensive language is against the rules. You do it, and someone spots it, you might get punished. Not sure why you struggle with that concept.

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Sorry if words are bad behavior, then there is a massive issue as words only have the power you grant them. They can make the rules all they want, but with as vague as they are, they yhave pretty much carte blanch on enforcing them, which is not good when it comes to rule enforcement

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Which is hypercritical and inconsistent. Hence my point. Your entire argument in this thread hinges on everyone following the rules... except, apparently, the very people who are supposed to enforce them. They can absolutely break their own ToS, but it makes the look foolish doing so.

I like how you immediately jump to WoW, assuming I even play it. Which I don't. Perhaps I just don't see certain words as offensive. Frankly, I don't. That doesn't mean I'll "curse like a sailor" but I've always found the notion of taking offense because someone dropped the s or b words silly.

But yes, swear words are always indicative of anger management issues. You really do fancy giant leaps in logic and baseless assumptions, don't you?

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No swear words aren’t always indicative of anger management. They’re also often indicative of immaturity. There aren’t too many reasons why an intellectual well tempered adult would choose these words to get any point across.

But regardless I just can’t understand why you need the right to potentially offend others in a family oriented video game. This isn’t a free speech issue, it’s more akin to why puppets on kids tv shows don’t drop swear words.

Let people have nice things without bringing them down to your level.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Sorry if words are bad behavior, then there is a massive issue as words only have the power you grant them. They can make the rules all they want, but with as vague as they are, they yhave pretty much carte blanch on enforcing them, which is not good when it comes to rule enforcement

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So who's the one running amok here? People getting offended? GMs on a power trip? Get your story straight, I'm trying to figure out who you're a victim of here and you're constantly changing it.

These forums offend me.
brb
*gets armour*
*melds: +60 tenacity, +60 determination, +60 keyboard speed*
*dye: pure white*
*grabs weapon: keyboard,switches imbued by the tears of yoshiP's disappointment in me and my static when i ask to play my ilvl 495 drg*
*angry keyboard noises*

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So who's the one running amok here? People getting offended? GMs on a power trip? Get your story straight, I'm trying to figure out who you're a victim of here and you're constantly changing it.

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I'd say the people getting offended by profanity, which funnily enough the use of has a positive correlation with being honest according to some studies and others show a increased pain tolerance from swearing. There is also no actual evidence of harm from profanity. In the end though, they are just words deemed by puritans of the past as bad or offensive

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

I'd say the people getting offended by profanity, which funnily enough the use of has a positive correlation with being honest according to some studies and others show a increased pain tolerance from swearing. There is also no actual evidence of harm from profanity. In the end though, they are just words deemed by puritans of the past as bad or offensive

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That's all well and good, but I think the use of profanity on pain tolerance has to do with saying it out loud, not typing it on a keyboard. Sorry to burst your bubble. If that upsets you (or even, dare I say, offends you), you have my permission to yell bad words to yourself.

Also, you seem to be fixated on the "offended" and "puritan" aspect, which leads me to believe you've got nothing more to say and don't actually want to understand what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if people are offended or who decided when what was bad. The rules you agree to in order to play the game state that if you break them you can be suspended or banned. Just because someone caught you breaking a rule doesn't mean they're "offended". It means you're an arrogant fool who thinks they're above rules set by other people, and you still lost.

Get over it. If you're just going to keep repeating the same stuff about how profanity is fake or whatever, I'm done talking to you. It's a waste of time trying to talk to someone who just parrots someone else's rhetoric because they have nothing of their own.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Some people just speak that way.

All the more reason to be careful about who you let in a FC. Particularly regarding killjoys who are easily offended by a bit of swearing...

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It's no different than talking DPS numbers in a non-premade party, or linkshell. This is a grey area, but if you knew everyone was okay with the content, then it would be no problem. Happens all the time in savage, these players or raid groups are more adapt to talking about DPS numbers versus in a dungeon where the audience is likely completely different. If your FC likes to use certain words, or talk damage numbers like in this example, it's better to screen people who would be okay with the content.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

What is nice in one circle may not be in another. You cannot know what is and isn't unless informed of what it is. This is why everywhere but public opinion they let you know exactly what you are being punished for or charged with. Not simply "You violated this rule". They Point out exactly what you did to violated said rule. It is literally the only way one can learn from their mistakes.

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When someone is annonymously reported to their university for cheating, (for example), the university does not tell the person reported what exactly they did, because they KNOW that while not everyone is going to do this, the sheer RISK of someone going out of their way to verbally harass/attack/etc. the person they perceive as doing the report. They'd say "you cheated in this class on this test" and that's it. However, something akin to that applied to OPs situation would be "you said this in this dungeon run". Unfortunately that is WAY too specific because now OP would have only 3-7 people to figure out who did the reporting. From there it's easy to narrow down. It's happened to my boyfriend on a different game.

So instead of them giving enough information for you to *find* the person, they give you *just enough info* for you to begin watching what you say and do - that's ultimately what they want for first time offenders, really. No cursing, and no OBJECTIVELY offensive content - we're not talking about people taking personal offense to the color purple or something, but slurs, sexist denigrating comments, cussing, and obviously offensive stuff. Past that, it's up to the discretion of the individual, and if you personally feel you've said something offensive, apologize immediately.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

No swear words aren’t always indicative of anger management. They’re also often indicative of immaturity. There aren’t too many reasons why an intellectual well tempered adult would choose these words to get any point across.

But regardless I just can’t understand why you need the right to potentially offend others in a family oriented video game. This isn’t a free speech issue, it’s more akin to why puppets on kids tv shows don’t drop swear words.

Let people have nice things without bringing them down to your level.

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I do love how you now equate intelligence to whether someone says a mean word as though the two have any correlation. If we're going to be technical, they're literally words people decided, arbitrary, are bad. Once a upon a time, "hell" and "damn" were classified worse than the f word. Funny how as people became less religious, both have largely become "normal" nowadays.

Regardless, you're incorrect. FFXIV is rated "T" which outright warns of language. Furthermore, they expressly say online interactions are not rated. Therefore, comparing it in any way to a kids TV show doesn't compute. It's youngest audience are not children.

I would also like to put out the irony of petty personal insults technically breaks the rules. In fact, you even said "I just can’t understand why you need the right to potentially offend others" only to follow that up with "Let people have nice things without bringing them down to your level." Which is, technically, offensive. Or can be taken as such. See the problem with nebulous and inconsistent rules and how easily they can be interpreted differently?

If I was to get put in the GM prison, I would know exactly for what and why. If breaking the ToS is a normalized part of someones behavior, I assume that's when they can't tell exactly why they are in jail.

Don't agree with being thrown in jail and told off without being told specifically what you did wrong. "You know what you did" is not good enough, because no, you might not know. For all you know some banter in say chat offended someone and boom you're in the gaol. And especially people shouldn't be getting penalised for things outwith the game, streamers getting bans for chatting about a player is ridiculous to me. They're policing twitch now on top of their own game. So many people in this game come across as so soft skinned and report for the tiniest of things. The selective way in which some people are and aren't warned/banned is also irritating. One player had her entire FC harassing another person and not a thing was done to them at all. But say a no no word in a game that references rape and also says those SAME bad words in its dialogue? Oh no no no. Ban for you. Not as if there is a profanity filter or anything. Ludicrous, if you don't want to see bad language, put on the filter.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

I'd say the people getting offended by profanity, which funnily enough the use of has a positive correlation with being honest according to some studies and others show a increased pain tolerance from swearing. There is also no actual evidence of harm from profanity. In the end though, they are just words deemed by puritans of the past as bad or offensive

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thats great and all, chief, but if you go to someone's house or place of business and they ask you not to use profanity while you're there, and you get caught dropping swears, you shouldn't be surprised when they kick you out.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Errrr.. strong stance? I wouldn't say so. If it were that strong, I feel like a LOT of people would be banned more often. You honestly rarely ever hear of it.

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Apparently based on the comments and people who ve been here longer it seems that there has been more complaints from people who got banned that way so it seems to me they are doing a good work, I mean since i ve come here I ve seen a far better and friendlier community and that has a lot to do with SE known 0 tolerance on toxicity stance that almost no western game has (They say they do, they never enforce their tos outside of few cases that get out of control and can hurt their image, who can be bothered paying GMs to monitor bad behavior in the west after all xD)

And that is seen as a great positive for this game because even before I joined this game I heard how much better the community is and also read some complaints coming from certain more edgy "lol I throw insults and slurs as banter" gamers TM about how strictly enforce their policy and how they are victims, and if these people complain then it is a good thing for the rest of us that want a healthy and positive game.

If the feeling you described in the first post is genuine and not some attempt to get pity for bad behavior then the system is working even better than I imagined because that psychological feeling you explained is going to teach the person who broke the rules that breaking the rules has serious consequences they have to suffer directly.

And no, a GM wouldnt choose to sent you in jail because you said something innocent that only happened to offend some person who might get offended by obscure things, you said something offensive that can be seen as offensive by the majority, now if you choose to surround yourself with edgy people who dont think saying bad things is bad and you ve also adopted this mentality I would suggest trying to expand the kinds of people you talk to.

It's a shame to see the forums haven't changed one bit. For what it's worth, it's nice to see some people bring up some of these issues, and I hope you don't let the people trying to suppress your opinion discourage you, OP.

Let's not forget the foundation of the game we all play and love is based on criticism. Instead of being quick to cast judgement on a fellow player, we should at least hear them out before condemning them with a black and white label.

Fun fact: Mordion Gaol is similar to real world Japanese jail.

• They can take you in and keep you for up to 23 days without charge, without even telling you why you're there.
• Punishment will come randomly, without warning or idea about the timing. (eg waiting for years for death penalty to be carried out, never knowing when it will hit)
• You can be denied information and/or access to the outside world.

Not saying what you did is comparable to a real-world crime, but this should give you some mindset to how the Japanese treat "lawbreakers". In other words, you have no rights and are entitled to nothing.

I hope you take 2 things from this experience:
1) Actions have consequences; you are ultimately responsible for choices you make. (eg. you can decide to drive 10 over the speed limit like everyone else, but don't go crying when somebody actually pulls you over for it)
2) However much money you put into this game, it is not nearly enough for them to hesitate to ban you.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

It's a shame to see the forums haven't changed one bit. For what it's worth, it's nice to see some people bring up some of these issues, and I hope you don't let the people trying to suppress your opinion discourage you, OP.

Let's not forget the foundation of the game we all play and love is based on criticism. Instead of being quick to cast judgement on a fellow player, we should at least hear them out before condemning them with a black and white label.

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This wasn't "quick to cast judgement" or "black and white labels". They were put in a gaol for offensive language. A GM already "sentenced" them, for lack of a better word. This isn't like people are forming opinions based on an accusation. OP got busted for breaking a rule, and people are allowed to have opinions on it. Including opinions that you don't agree with.

Though a lot of these posts were also people trying to explain to OP how to interact with strangers to avoid it happening again, with a bunch of people coming in and saying "how can you even know how to be civil towards strangers". Read the whole thread instead of thinking you're some saviour for the OP, cheering for them because everyone is being so unfair.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

This wasn't "quick to cast judgement" or "black and white labels". They were put in a gaol for offensive language. A GM already "sentenced" them, for lack of a better word. This isn't like people are forming opinions based on an accusation. OP got busted for breaking a rule, and people are allowed to have opinions on it. Including opinions that you don't agree with.

Though a lot of these posts were also people trying to explain to OP how to interact with strangers to avoid it happening again, with a bunch of people coming in and saying "how can you even know how to be civil towards strangers". Read the whole thread instead of thinking you're some saviour for the OP, cheering for them because everyone is being so unfair.

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For the record, I did read all the whole thread, and my comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. If I touched a nerve and you felt identified with it, then I don't know what to tell you.

As much as I'd love to engage in a petty discussion to see whose ego is bigger, I think I already said my piece and I stand by it.

This is why you never bring up things like "cancel culture" because now everyone is fighting over cancel culture. What a waste of a thread.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

For the record, I did read all the whole thread, and my comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. If I touched a nerve and you felt identified with it, then I don't know what to tell you.

As much as I'd love to engage in a petty discussion to see whose ego is bigger, I think I already said my piece and I stand by it.

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I literally just summarized the thread and you instantly went to "touched a nerve" and talking about egos? Did I miss something? It's unfortunate that you think talking to people who disagree with you is petty, I don't agree that you're being petty for posting here. I'm sorry you feel that way. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Don’t break the rules and you don’t go there. Never been there in all the years I played.

I agree it’s a bad system though. I would have just banned you.

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Ok, wow. I hope you never become a mod.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

However, something akin to that applied to OPs situation would be "you said this in this dungeon run". Unfortunately that is WAY too specific because now OP would have only 3-7 people to figure out who did the reporting. From there it's easy to narrow down.

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That is very true, but in some cases it seems it can go further than even that.
If this thread is to be believed, for a GM to even act on the report the person who filed it couldn't be a bystander. The reported person could easily narrow it down from 3-7 suspects to 1.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ccording-to-GM

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Originally Posted by ItMe

That is very true, but in some cases it seems it can go further than even that.
If this thread is to be believed, for a GM to even act on the report the person who filed it couldn't be a bystander. The reported person could easily narrow it down from 3-7 suspects to 1.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ccording-to-GM

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That's very worrying if true, yikes. I'm very, VERY glad that it is the way it is now, then, as opposed to the moderate ambivalence towards the system that I felt before.

Not people defending a bad system, bad GMs AND cancel culture in this thread lmao

can we cancel this entire thread pls

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

So yesterday I got thrown in Mordion Gaol for apparently breaking the rules about offensive content/language. Okay, but why?

While I'm thankful for the GM who released me, I shouldn't have had to wait for five hours to get released, with no indication that the Gaol is where I am I at. Googling about the place gave me more information than Square Enix did. There was no prompt that I had been jailed, no explanation as to why, and no indication that a GM would come help me. It felt like I had to stay at my computer for all those hours, skip hygiene, not bother to cook, or do anything out of fear of being held in limbo longer. The entire process makes you wonder if they're even going to reply to you. It feels incredibly isolated and alone.

I have spent so much money on this games lifetime. I do not want to lose everything, so this was not only traumatizing, it was incredibly scary.

Would a cop be allowed to arrest you and not tell you why you're being arrested? Of course not, so why isn't Square Enix transparent about WHY? How can I improve my behavior and learn about what I did wrong, and how to avoid strikes against my account, if I never even have clear answers?

What they basically did could have honestly been dealt with in a tell while I was online. This extreme process was unnecessary. The entire Mordian Gaol system needs an overhaul. It's so bad for mental health, and honestly at risk of being incredibly corrupt.

I am disappointed. My experience felt incredibly unethical.

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Would you rather get goaled or banned?

political nonsense aside, even assuming someone totally deserves to be in gm jail, i don't think it's right not to tell them why. i'm sure some people know and are just playing stupid, but there are actually people who are insensitive out of ignorance and not just malice. this is doubly true for younger kids who maybe don't have as much life experience.

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Originally Posted by twocows

political nonsense aside, even assuming someone totally deserves to be in gm jail, i don't think it's right not to tell them why. i'm sure some people know and are just playing stupid, but there are actually people who are insensitive out of ignorance and not just malice. this is doubly true for younger kids who maybe don't have as much life experience.

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Fair point, but if by 16you still haven’t figured out how to behave in a virtual-public setting to the point of going to a virtual jail...I would say hopefully lesson learned?

(Game is rated 16+ give or take by country)