Remove Gender-Lock From Gear / Glamour Please

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

You missed the point tho. "why do have less? " =/= " Why do i have to wear this " XD
And i said several time that the idea of this thread was great for thoose who want access to the gear of other genders.

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then why... are you still arguing against it? no one here is arguing for less, we just want the gear that is most specifically for glamour purposes, to be open to all genders.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

No thanks. There are minors playing this game as well and some of more recent ones put it on mature perversion category already.

(not saying that the is anything wrong with the ladies wearing those pants)

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Sounds like transphobia to me. :\

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

then why... are you still arguing against it? no one here is arguing for less, we just want the gear that is most specifically for glamour purposes, to be open to all genders.

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Because i gain nothing from it (nothing much that caches my eye on other gender) but if there's consequences after they continue to "remove" genderlock, i'm not sure if i'll be happy about thoose changes.
For example if the new bozja haircut (the one you get from DR normal) was genderlocked, maybe i would be farming for it because it looks nice. If people wanted less genderlocked (or more genderless) haircuts back in SB and SE listened to them and decided to not make a male version for the DR haircut (less work) : well i just missed out on a potential good haircut.
I don't think asking for more unlocking will result on just more things for everyone, developpers won't even show you what you missed i think.

But for payed glamour on mog station, i'm starting to change my mind. Outfits just cost too much to be genderlocked, and are not even shared between characters. That's why i avoid the mogstation tbh it's just not worth it, if i pay for the new outfit i know already that it will become useless later.

Aniway i talked about this way too much, time to stop lol

I've posted my chagrin about the gender-locked FFXIII gear and hair. I think Snow and Lightning both have great looks that would be tasteful and stylish on both genders!

A lot of grief on this post about gender roles...I might not want to wear, or look at some of the irreverent or meme-ish glams out there, but I would definitely want people to wear what makes them happy since they are paying for the happiness it brings them, as I am for mine own. And most of those I don't really have to remember or think about later. Half the time I ignore my friends and FC mates' glams because they're outlandish or tacky, but I don't go out of my way to deride them for it (although sometimes, a gentle suggestion of a cuter glam gets accepted).

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Originally Posted by DenaturedH2O

A lot of grief on this post about gender roles...I might not want to wear, or look at some of the irreverent or meme-ish glams out there, but I would definitely want people to wear what makes them happy since they are paying for the happiness it brings them, as I am for mine own. And most of those I don't really have to remember or think about later. Half the time I ignore my friends and FC mates' glams because they're outlandish or tacky, but I don't go out of my way to deride them for it (although sometimes, a gentle suggestion of a cuter glam gets accepted).

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This. 10000% THIS.

If the vast majority of players would end up looking just as they are now, then why bother wasting the time and resources on changing anything?

You can’t be that dense, can you?
I mean that it’s already possible to be a feminine looking male or a masculine looking female.
So opening up more options despite gender just gives people more options to design their characters.
Which again.. a lot of gendered clothing isn’t necessarily masculine or feminine and there are tons of female only or male only glams that can be use for a different effect if given to the opposite gender.
When I say people will look the way they do now is to send a message to the gender purist that they don’t need to be afraid that if they open this up, there won’t be a burst of fem boys walking around.

For instance the thanvanirian shoes on a female can be used to make a Greek god style glam for a male.

I feel that the amount of people requesting this sort of thing is very small and relegated almost entirely to the forums and reddit. I'd much rather have more gender locked clothing with an emphasis on specialized clothing for each gender, rather than a generic androgyne style that fits both like we presently are getting with hairstyles.

Though, I feel this is a non-issue when they could be using their limited resources on more important things, such as Viera/Hrothgar hair and hats. Maybe I'd be more on board with letting anyone wear anything if there were not more pressing issues.

No one says they should put everything at wait list and unlock every single items right now. What people ask for is to consider that this approach is outdated and, more often than not, doesn't have much sense to begin with (for instance, earring from Lyse Mog Station set is incredibly cool and I wanted to buy the set just for it, but it's genderlocked. A genderlocked EARRING. EARRING.). There are a lot of pants that you look at on some character, they look nice, then you try them on and find out they have an alternate design that is far worse on top of that, and same applies to female characters when you see nice pants but they turn into 1000th mini-skirt once you try it on.

The main point is: stop doing unnecessary gender-locks, they aren't "cool" nor they are "meaningful". They are just limiting. When possible - unlock some of the old items too, when it doesn't affect schedule or other tasks, but 1st of all: just stop doing unnecessary alternate versions and genderlocks that have literally zero sense behind it. I'm still angry from new Daily Set from Ishgard that has nice long shorts on female character that turn into "typical ugly triangle shorts you'll never wear because they're horrendous" on males (why do you hate male shorts so much, designer? Even long ones? Did they do something bad to you or what?).

well ... depends.
i would like to see more gender locks on obvious items, also there are enough items that make no sense to lock.

Why is the approach outdated?

Alternating pants into skirts is sitting on an outdated tradition (unless it's 1960s or something on your calendar, when my grandma was forbidden from wearing pants - then it's not outdated for you, I guess). There's literally no sense behind this. If they want to put these skirts in game so much - they should release them as separate items and give ladies their pants. You could say there are enough, but why not having more? Having more pants with more skirts separate is a win-win, not a loss.

As for everything else - we don't live in some cave era (and maybe it would have been better if we did tbh, because folks back then likely didn't care about "gender roles" which is a social construct). Sticking to something "boys should wear..." and "girls should wear" is weird at best and should go into oblivion already, it has no practical use in society other than forbidding somebody from doing something what isn't even remotely harmful. There are dresses and skirts that are designed with men types of figure in mind already (though a lot of them look more weird than stylish, but that's a matter of personal taste. Somebody likely does like them).

Usually it's exactly the media that starts changes in things such as wearing clothes. It so happens that modern media, not in a small portion, is games, and they do give a beginning for new norms just as they represent old ones, much like every other media. I doubt people will ever think it's okay to walk around in a bikini -30C area (though some Russian traditions can... argue this, in a sense), but game is pretty much able to teach players that people should be allowed to wear what they want and how they want without being shamed for it, even if in somebody's eyes it looks ridiculous.

Also if anything, even with recent "moral code" in mind, no one stops you from wearing a piece of cloth irl that "isn't created for your gender". You may be shamed or laughed for it, but there's no any hardware limitation in your brain that stops you from doing so. And likewise it shouldn't be a thing in game either. There's obviously such a thing as "resources aren't limitless" but then again - people don't ask them to remove every single gender-lock right away. They ask to consider it and keep in mind for future designs, with addressing old items when it's possible.

Gender roles are a social construct? Don't these roles exist in nature? Hell, even in caveman times, males would go hunt and the females would raise the young. Lions form prides, which are social groups and adhere to their gender roles. I'm not sure I follow.

In many nations outside of the United States, people are still shamed for wearing whatever they want, and in some nations, those people are killed if they do not adhere to gender clothing standards. I'm all for freedom of expression, but expecting that it's the norm the world over and that everyone should just accept it or they're ignorant is just silly.

I'd love more pants for women, just as I'd love more dresses. I would also love to see more manly men outfits for the guys. And if enough people wanted more dresses and skirts for the boys too, I wouldn't complain.

I just feel there's a lot of speaking for people around the world without considering their feelings in this thread.

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

And every specie a social structure, although a very different one from what we experience ourselves. Even lions. That said, we don't live in times when men were hunting and women were gathering crops and raising the young. We don't live in times when women weren't even allowed to read, let alone work, either. Society changes, and given this I don't get why some people are so stuck on "but it's not a tradition". By "tradition" I should be having 9th kid by now without ever being allowed to get a proper education because I would be a mere incubator in the eyes of "traditional society".

I live in such a country. You can be beaten up to death for something as harmless as dying your hair blue, and it's not a figure of speech - we had such cases registered and talked about in news. I still stand on my point: people should be allowed to wear what they want without being shamed for it nor anything else. EPSECIALLY because I'm from a place where it's still not the case and I want it to change, like many other who is affected by this <kupo!>. Media, games included, is not a main factor in process, but it's a part of it and a good one because it's much less dangerous, shifting the norm slowly without actual real-life threat.

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

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Originally Posted by artypartytime

Gender roles exist in nature but are vastly different among different species. In a lot of species the male is more fabulous than female.

Alternatively gender roles exist mostly for survival.
Men hunt or protect usually because they are bigger.

As survival based of strength becomes less of a concern gender roles begin to change.
Notibly lionesses who don’t need a man to protect them from most predators become hunters.

Same for humans as we enter into a more intellectual phase in human history “big man strong” isn’t as valuable as a person who knows how to use their brains well.
So it’s no surprise that gender roles are breaking down because they are no longer Necessary.

Now as humans you can chose to maintain old gender roles if they work for you or abandon them completely. Both options are for the individual to chose and neither is right or wrong.

So! You can chose to wear the outfit that speaks to your gender or you can chose not to care about that at all and wear whatever you feel like.

Both options are present both options are valid

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this. gender roles while they exist in nature do not exist as WE have made them. we've decided that, arbitrarily, pink is for girls, blue is for boys. we've decided, arbitrarily, that girls wear skirts, and boys wear pants. what we DIDN'T decide is that amabs have different muscle structure, and thus were the hunters of most societies. what we DID decide, is that big man stronk so big man lEaD.

hell, the decision of men wearing pants is so recent that most of human history, both amabs and afabs were wearing robes, dresses, skirts. it's only the last 600-ish years that we've began to shift towards a weird dichotomy of men do this and women do that, and even then that has shifted over history - ie men used to wear heels, men wore makeup and wigs, men wore flamboyant clothes.

(also you posted twice @artypartytime ahah)

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Originally Posted by Karious

Gender roles are a social construct? Don't these roles exist in nature?

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Some gender roles are essential for survival depending on your circumstances. We as humans have outgrown the needs of rigid gender roles due to how we live now being so vastly different to long ago. If anything our current state of society needs these gendered roles to be abolished wherever possible to be able to meet the needs of modern society. A lot of industries suffer because of sexism. They're depriving themselves of talented and useful people because of gender bias that no longer makes sense to uphold.

This thread is purely about virtual clothing. I hope I don't need to explain that it has no relation to using gender roles to survive as a species.

It makes no sense to gender lock gear because there is no real benefit to it. It forces SE to often design two versions of a set of gear which is more work for them, and it frustrates many players who prefer gear that is not useable by their character solely because of gender. Never mind how SE gain less money by only allowing some characters to access certain appearance options. Certainly for me SE have gotten less money from me because there are mog station gear sets I would adore to have on my character but I can't unless I change the gender of my character, which I have no intention of doing.

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Originally Posted by Karious

I'd much rather have more gender locked clothing with an emphasis on specialized clothing for each gender, rather than a generic androgyne style that fits both like we presently are getting with hairstyles.

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Fine, but then can we maybe not keep making 85-90% of all female clothing a dress or miniskirt, whenever we have gender-locked designs? Some ladies like to look good in a suit or vest, or wear a 'badass longcoat' like various fictional heroes. And I have lost track of the number of times the guys get a really awesome duster or jacket or dapper vest, and the women get another frilly dress. The Valentiones' event last year gave me a great deal of sadness.

*clings forever to the blessedly-unisex YoRHa Type-53 Coat of Fending*

We already have more gender "specialized" gear than not. Also I'm begging people to stop parroting gender essentialism for survivals sake. We didn't start seeing gender roles until agriculture started to see primitive industrialization (thus shifting the workload unevenly, and the credit of valued labor).

I'd like to see earrings, boots, hats, and gloves be unlocked at the least.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

We already have more gender "specialized" gear than not. Also I'm begging people to stop parroting gender essentialism for survivals sake.

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That argument is even more silly when all we're talking about is cosmetic appearances that have literally zero effect on combat performance. If these people truly believe in the whole "we need gender roles to survive" and think a game should reflect this, then I wonder why they aren't making threads complaining about how women in this game's story are permitted to do battle instead of being forced to stay home and take care of children and old people.

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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Pretty sure women like suits and men like dresses in Japan, too, but go off queen.

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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Not the reason a lot here want to see the gender restrictions removed, if someone wants to wear something that looks good they should be allowed to do so.

And even then i'm certain that japanese media have a wide variety of outfits for their characters, some of which doesn't follow the "norm".

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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A country that also produces a shitton more male characters in feminine clothing than any other one, what is your point?

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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"I can't read japanese therefore it must be like in the anime I watch and they've never heard of feminism"

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

you know whats cool?

that we play a japanse game. a country the gives nothing about those western problems.

twitter made a whole western generation gaga

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Yeah and that's why several prefectures applied same sex partnership system in 2019-2020 and others plan to do it as well in future. Or that's why several schools stopped separating school form for girls and boys and both can wear both pants and skirts since 2020. Or that's why companies start removing requirement to write your sex in resumes. Or that's why people are mad about Mori's last remarks on women "talking too much" to the point of demanding his impeachment (and it's not the first case people aren't happy about high status people spitting sexist things). Because people don't care.

Where people get this "Japanese society is apolitical and they don't care about such things" idea from? Just because they aren't as loud in expressing their anger as some activists in the West - doesn't mean the don't care. They aren't emotionless viewless aliens. These issues aren't "western".

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Yeah and that's why several prefectures applied same sex partnership system in 2019-2020 and others plan to do it as well in future. Or that's why several schools stopped separating school form for girls and boys and both can wear both pants and skirts since 2020. Or that's why companies start removing requirement to write your sex in resumes. Or that's why people are mad about Mori's last remarks on women "talking too much" to the point of demanding his impeachment (and it's not the first case people aren't happy about high status people spitting sexist things). Because people don't care.

Where people get this "Japanese society is apolitical and they don't care about such things" idea from? Just because they aren't as loud in expressing their anger as some activists in the West - doesn't mean the don't care. They aren't emotionless viewless aliens. These issues aren't "western".

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Lot of people live in a fantasy world where Japan is the new Nuclear Family dreamland. I have NO IDEA where this comes from, but it's not the first time I've seen it. Probably stems from the very racist "submissive asian gf" stereotype. Or part of it.


Anyway unleash the glams.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Where people get this "Japanese society is apolitical and they don't care about such things" idea from? Just because they aren't as loud in expressing their anger as some activists in the West - doesn't mean the don't care. They aren't emotionless viewless aliens. These issues aren't "western".

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I feel like at least part of it is that the issue gets so politicised that people see it as a direct product of politics.

Folks still be whining over what folks be wearing in 2021?

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Where people get this "Japanese society is apolitical and they don't care about such things" idea from? Just because they aren't as loud in expressing their anger as some activists in the West - doesn't mean the don't care. They aren't emotionless viewless aliens. These issues aren't "western".

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my co-workers are still there, since i had to leave after 2 months for family reasons

while your other parts arent that wrong, those changes are not the big haul, or better said, so minor that you can belittle it. there's also a traditional movenment against it

lmao no that would be cringe i do not want to see furries in skirts

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Originally Posted by ClickClick

lmao no that would be cringe i do not want to see furries in skirts

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cringe culture died in like 2017.

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Originally Posted by ClickClick

lmao no that would be cringe i do not want to see furries in skirts

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friend youre a miqote

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

friend youre a miqote

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Cat girls aren't furry, a furry race is very close to the Hrothgar. Cat girls, Au Ra, Viera that are humans with the animal/demon features of a tail and Ears aren't one. Furrys are full animals that behave like humans and their traits.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

cringe culture died in like 2017.

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okay cringe expert

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Originally Posted by ClickClick

okay cringe expert

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...351&height=299

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Cat girls aren't furry, a furry race is very close to the Hrothgar. Cat girls, Au Ra, Viera that are humans with the animal/demon features of a tail and Ears aren't one. Furrys are full animals that behave like humans and their traits.

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nah dude races with animal features are furry bait just embrace it

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Cat girls aren't furry, a furry race is very close to the Hrothgar. Cat girls, Au Ra, Viera that are humans with the animal/demon features of a tail and Ears aren't one. Furrys are full animals that behave like humans and their traits.

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Nope. Furry bait.