Really hope next savage tier is delayed.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

You all really think that people who are rushing to savage care about the story

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Yes

/10char

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

O my god burn this thread please . You all really think that people who are rushing to savage care about the story ... . If they are too busy going for "world first" they still can do the rest of the content later too ...

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i literally follow multiple world racers on Twitch who have mods actively police their chat so they aren't spoiled, so yes, yes some of them do.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

i literally follow multiple world racers on Twitch who have mods actively police their chat so they aren't spoiled, so yes, yes some of them do.

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I'm talking about the raid story not the msq .

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

I'm talking about the raid story not the msq .

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so am i, but ok

At least delay by a week. 2 weeks is a bit excessive. That way everyone has a opportunity to enjoy the story or other launch day content.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

so am i, but ok

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You don't make sense , if people are rushing to savage they don't care about the raid story + they can still watch the cutscene later . There is absolutly no point of delaying savage and they won't because its a bad idea , people who are asking for that don't do savage or barely months after the release of the patch.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

You don't make sense , if people are rushing to savage they don't care about the raid story + they can still watch the cutscene later . There is absolutly no point of delaying savage and they won't because its a bad idea , people who are asking for that don't do savage or barely months after the release of the patch.

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I'm not a hardcore raider, but wanna share my perspective. I do care about the Raid Story, as do two other members of our Static, and of course you don't want to hold the group back and skip if you have to to start raiding, but rewatching the story later just isn't the same as the fights give you an idea of what will happen. (I often see the argument to look for another static then, but do you really want people to give up on a group that just clicks/friends and people with similar time schedules over this?)

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So just because you feel like savage mode must be tackled the first day it is available (to the extent that you feel like you must skip all other content in order to rush it) or else it presumably just isn't worth doing, that means it should be delayed for everyone else just to accommodate you?

Sounds like the epitome of selfishness to me.

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This is the same mentality that results in statics forcing their members to start progging ASAP and skipping cutscenes to get there. You often get a minority of tryhards who dictate the agenda for the rest of the less highly strung members.

Hell I had members leave my FC when Seat of Sacrifice EX dropped because we wanted to clear it as an FC first, but they wanted to do it on day one, and didn't have the patience to "carry" us through it blind 3 days late. 3 days!

You've waited 9 months as it is, it won't hurt to wait another week, it's purely arbitrary.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I'm not a hardcore raider, but wanna share my perspective. I do care about the Raid Story, as do two other members of our Static, and of course you don't want to hold the group back and skip if you have to to start raiding, but rewatching the story later just isn't the same as the fights give you an idea of what will happen. (I often see the argument to look for another static then, but do you really want people to give up on a group that just clicks/friends and people with similar time schedules over this?)

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If a group really clicks, especially if they're friends, why they can't they wait a few minutes for the people watching cutscenes? Why is it the people who want to experience the story are the ones seen as being bad for making people wait when this is a story-driven game?

This thread is a doozy.

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Originally Posted by linayar

If a group really clicks, especially if they're friends, why they can't they wait a few minutes for the people watching cutscenes? Why is it the people who want to experience the story are the ones seen as being bad for making people wait when this is a story-driven game?

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Because schedules don't always align. For example, my group wanted to attempt a week one kill. We weren't anywhere close to World Racing but still wanted to push. Two members literally got off work an hour before out start time. And that was assuming they didn't get caught in any traffic. Myself and the Scholar were also the only Omni-Crafters, which meant we made a fully set of gear for all eight members, pots and food included. It just wasn't a feasible option—especially since cut scenes aren't just "a few minutes". It took me over an hour to do all of Verse and I skipped everything. Obviously, it took a little longer for me due to DF but you then have to consider if we all did it, those two who just came home don't get to enjoy the fights for themselves. We carry them through while they die to mechanics they don't know, or we spoil everything and it's meaningless.

Basically, you're going to disappoint people in a static no matter how close you are unless everyone has the same opinion. Conversely, you delay Savage by a week and avoid the whole problem. At the end of the day, if no one has an issue with it for the first tier. Why is it a big deal for the remaining two?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because schedules don't always align. For example, my group wanted to attempt a week one kill. We weren't anywhere close to World Racing but still wanted to push. Two members literally got off work an hour before out start time. And that was assuming they didn't get caught in any traffic. Myself and the Scholar were also the only Omni-Crafters, which meant we made a fully set of gear for all eight members, pots and food included. It just wasn't a feasible option—especially since cut scenes aren't just "a few minutes". It took me over an hour to do all of Verse and I skipped everything. Obviously, it took a little longer for me due to DF but you then have to consider if we all did it, those two who just came home don't get to enjoy the fights for themselves. We carry them through while they die to mechanics they don't know, or we spoil everything and it's meaningless.

Basically, you're going to disappoint people in a static no matter how close you are unless everyone has the same opinion.

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See, if pushing week 1 means all of that, it sounds like your group would benefit from not pushing week 1. I'm not sure what it is about week 1 that is so magical that if you don't clear it then somehow your group would feel less accomplished because of it, especially if you're saying your group is willing to have Savage delayed behind Normal. I get that schedules don't always align, but I also think that a static should have the ability of making a schedule that can benefit everyone given everyone's availability.

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Conversely, you delay Savage by a week and avoid the whole problem. At the end of the day, if no one has an issue with it for the first tier. Why is it a big deal for the remaining two?

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It may not be a big deal for the people in the group, but for someone who doesn't do Savage content, it is a bigger deal* for me as it means 1 or more week for tomestone acquisition and it is part of what I look forward to in the patch.

The first tier had an entire new expansion with two new tomestones (uncapped with the expansion and capped with the Savage release 4 weeks later). The subsequent tiers will only have new capped tomestone, which I strongly believe will be delayed along with Savage if Savage is delayed (along with crafted gears).

* Obviously I will accept the change begrudgingly if they do delay subsequent tiers' Savage, but as long as we're stating our opinions, then I don't want it delayed.

Let's be real here. "Delaying the tomestone" for casuals wouldn't really put you at a loss since you have 4 billion weeks to do your experts or hunts to cap. Sooooooo you want max ilvl gear for....what now? Not savage... not ultimate... for what? Hunts? Dungeons? Alliances? Give me a break lol.

Bunch of casuals that don't do savage or ultimate want to step in to our world of a hardcore raider and tell us what we can and can't do. Imagine the entitlement. Oh well. At least you pay your sub so I can do more hardcore content and clear it, something that most here don't even attempt.

Stay on your side of the fence, then.

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Originally Posted by linayar

See, if pushing week 1 means all of that, it sounds like your group would benefit from not pushing week 1. I'm not sure what it is about week 1 that is so magical that if you don't clear it then somehow your group would feel less accomplished because of it, especially if you're saying your group is willing to have Savage delayed behind Normal. I get that schedules don't always align, but I also think that a static should have the ability of making a schedule that can benefit everyone given everyone's availability.

It may not be a big deal for the people in the group, but for someone who doesn't do Savage content, it is a bigger deal* for me as it means 1 or more week for tomestone acquisition and it is part of what I look forward to in the patch.

The first tier had an entire new expansion with two new tomestones (uncapped with the expansion and capped with the Savage release 4 weeks later). The subsequent tiers will only have new capped tomestone, which I strongly believe will be delayed along with Savage if Savage is delayed (along with crafted gears).

* Obviously I will accept the change begrudgingly if they do delay subsequent tiers' Savage, but as long as we're stating our opinions, then I don't want it delayed.

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I don't don't savage day one, but this is my opinion:

The idea of delaying one week savage opening is to give everyone, interested in that race, a fair chance. There is no need to also delay new tomes or crafted gear, since everyone has also access to both.

I have a hard time imagining why anyone will be against a change like that, outside probably crafters since a change like this has the potential to devalue, even more, crafted gear.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I don't don't savage day one, but this is my opinion:

The idea of delaying one week savage opening is to give everyone, interested in that race, a fair chance. There is no need to also delay new tomes or crafted gear, since everyone has also access to both.

I have a hard time imagining why anyone will be against a change like that, outside probably crafters since a change like this has the potential to devalue, even more, crafted gear.

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There is a reason to delay tomestones. Since this change is supposedly to give everyone a fair chance not delaying tomestones means that people who have the time can cap their tomestones right after reset, allowing them to get 900 tomestones in total before even stepping into the raid.


In regards to crafted gear. If we take Odin for example the 480 gear that came with 5.2 dropped from 5-8mil a piece to less than 1mil (what I would consider a reasonable price) within the same day...maybe 2 days and further down to around 500k within the next 2 days. This means that unless the entire playerbase suddenly turns their brains off they will wait until about monday to get their crafted gear and since undercutting is absolutely rampant crafters will lose quite a bit of profit. Although that's not really anything new since ShB, it's a problem with crafting in general currently.

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Originally Posted by Aurelius2625

Let's be real here. "Delaying the tomestone" for casuals wouldn't really put you at a loss since you have 4 billion weeks to do your experts or hunts to cap. Sooooooo you want max ilvl gear for....what now? Not savage... not ultimate... for what? Hunts? Dungeons? Alliances? Give me a break lol.

Bunch of casuals that don't do savage or ultimate want to step in to our world of a hardcore raider and tell us what we can and can't do. Imagine the entitlement. Oh well. At least you pay your sub so I can do more hardcore content and clear it, something that most here don't even attempt.

Stay on your side of the fence, then.

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What? Step in to what world now? Imagine the entitlement indeed for you to say that. As far as I'm concerned, I'm living well on my world, thank you very much, lol. And yes, I do pay my sub, so I will enjoy the content I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I don't don't savage day one, but this is my opinion:

The idea of delaying one week savage opening is to give everyone, interested in that race, a fair chance. There is no need to also delay new tomes or crafted gear, since everyone has also access to both.

I have a hard time imagining why anyone will be against a change like that, outside probably crafters since a change like this has the potential to devalue, even more, crafted gear.

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Maybe, but I think they have their gearing schedule in mind already.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The is a reason to delay tomestones. Since this change is supposedly to give everyone a fair chance not delaying tomestones means that people who have the time can cap their tomestones right after reset, allowing them to get 900 tomestones in total before even stepping into the raid.


In regards to crafted gear. If we take Odin for example the 480 gear that came with 5.2 dropped from 5-8mil a piece to less than 1mil (what I would consider a reasonable price) within the same day...maybe 2 days and further down to around 500k within the next 2 days. This means that unless the entire playerbase suddenly turns their brains off they will wait until about monday to get their crafted gear and since undercutting is absolutely rampant crafters will lose quite a bit of profit. Although that's not really anything new since ShB, it's a problem with crafting in general currently.

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I mean, everyone has a week to cap. If you can't play during that week that's a totally different problem that should not be addressed.

Live Letter mentions 5.4 MSQ will be required to unlock the new raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Erza_Scarlets

Live Letter mentions 5.4 MSQ will be required to unlock the new raid tier.

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5.3 MSQ, not 5.4.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Just like on the start of the expansion. I hope savage is delayed 1-2 weeks so raiders like myself don't have to rush, rush.
To unlock savage as fast as possible and ignore everything and skip cut scenes from the normal mode.

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no one forces you to rush rush, your group does. Let it go....

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Originally Posted by phantomr23

This seems pretty reasonable to me. The difference between the first tier and second/third tiers is actually quite noticeable. With the first tier you have time to take in the normal fights and enjoy them, they're not immediately mechanically and - in terms of gearing - obsolete, and you get a window to gear up to the base ilvl that the Savage fights require. Then, when the Savages unlock, if you're not in a static then you don't feel pressured because you've had time to take everything in. The second tier is a lot less enjoyable to start, in my opinion. If, like a lot of people, you want to try and enjoy the fights before guides have dropped, then you're pushed into grabbing the new crafted gear immediately, melding it and rushing through the story, all so you can hit the savage fights before everybody knows how to do them. Like, yeah, you're not forced to rush but when the first tier is already doing this and people who, for whatever reason, can't join a static get a more pleasant experience (and people in statics don't get a worse one) then it doesn't exactly seem too unreasonable?

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This can't be further from the truth and so utterly diluted with the inability to control yourself now? Thats where we have come? WAhhhh I cant not watch a guide please delay savage? W T F?

Just listen to yourselves. Every single line its "I CANT" "I WANT" "MY GROUP"


Nobody cares YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR GROUP YOUR RESPONSIBILITY YOUR GROUP

YOUR YOUR

Not our's, not SE's. Yours.


Get it through your thick and entitled skulls, your responsibility. You dont see me in here askind SE to give me everything cause im going through brain cancer? no cause its my responability. you kids need to grow up in a tougher environment

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Originally Posted by linayar

See, if pushing week 1 means all of that, it sounds like your group would benefit from not pushing week 1. I'm not sure what it is about week 1 that is so magical that if you don't clear it then somehow your group would feel less accomplished because of it, especially if you're saying your group is willing to have Savage delayed behind Normal. I get that schedules don't always align, but I also think that a static should have the ability of making a schedule that can benefit everyone given everyone's availability.

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Not really. As it defeats the entire point of us wanting the challenge. Week 1 is the hardest the tier will be hence why plenty of groups attempt to beat it in those first two weeks. We all wanted to attempt that but a handful of us also care about the story. It isn't about feeling "less accomplished" per se but simply wanting to pursue a harder challenge without arbitrarily handicapping ourselves. Really, the only issue for us is Savage releasing at the same time as Normal and/or Normal being a requirement to access it.

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Originally Posted by linayar

It may not be a big deal for the people in the group, but for someone who doesn't do Savage content, it is a bigger deal* for me as it means 1 or more week for tomestone acquisition and it is part of what I look forward to in the patch.

The first tier had an entire new expansion with two new tomestones (uncapped with the expansion and capped with the Savage release 4 weeks later). The subsequent tiers will only have new capped tomestone, which I strongly believe will be delayed along with Savage if Savage is delayed (along with crafted gears).

* Obviously I will accept the change begrudgingly if they do delay subsequent tiers' Savage, but as long as we're stating our opinions, then I don't want it delayed.

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Do you feel this way about Ishgard Restoration? Crafters this expansion have been allotted an extra two weeks (5.41 will come a later, apparently) solely because the devs didn't want them to feel rushed and thus, having to avoid other content. Why can't the raiders be given similar treatment?

As for your tomestones, they could release them without allowing you to purchase anything until the subsequent week. It basically means you buy your body/legs, which is the best piece to get anyway short of a weapon. Furthermore, if we're being honest. Tomestones have very little value unless you're partaking in Savage or Ultimate. Our current gear right now will actually be overpowered for every piece of content released in 5.4 that isn't the aforementioned two. Even the first two floors of Savage are scaled with last tier's max ilvl in mind.

With all that said, you're certainly entitled to give your opinion as I am to mine. Frankly, I think a decent compromise if they're really concerned about the tomestone/crafted gear (which I don't think she be delayed) would be to no longer gate Savage behind Normal. Just have the NPC give a warning to players they may spoil story elements by attempting Savage first.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not really. As it defeats the entire point of us wanting the challenge. Week 1 is the hardest the tier will be hence why plenty of groups attempt to beat it in those first two weeks. We all wanted to attempt that but a handful of us also care about the story. It isn't about feeling "less accomplished" per se but simply wanting to pursue a harder challenge without arbitrarily handicapping ourselves. Really, the only issue for us is Savage releasing at the same time as Normal and/or Normal being a requirement to access it.

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Well, that's probably part of the reason why they release Savage at the same time as Normal after the first tier, as part of the challenge. And by harder challenge, do you mean because of gearing and/or because of community knowledge of the fight? I feel like people who want to challenge themselves can try not to spoil themselves of the fight and gearing might not matter depending on access to crafted gear.

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Do you feel this way about Ishgard Restoration? Crafters this expansion have been allotted an extra two weeks (5.41 will come a later, apparently) solely because the devs didn't want them to feel rushed and thus, having to avoid other content. Why can't the raiders be given similar treatment?

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Just to be clear, I am not opposed to Savage delay on principle, but because it may impact what I enjoy in the game. Ishgard Restoration doesn't affect me, so I'm neutral about when it's released, and I would be neutal about Savage delay as well if it doesn't affect what I want out of the game.

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As for your tomestones, they could release them without allowing you to purchase anything until the subsequent week. It basically means you buy your body/legs, which is the best piece to get anyway short of a weapon. Furthermore, if we're being honest. Tomestones have very little value unless you're partaking in Savage or Ultimate. Our current gear right now will actually be overpowered for every piece of content released in 5.4 that isn't the aforementioned two. Even the first two floors of Savage are scaled with last tier's max ilvl in mind.

With all that said, you're certainly entitled to give your opinion as I am to mine. Frankly, I think a decent compromise if they're really concerned about the tomestone/crafted gear (which I don't think she be delayed) would be to no longer gate Savage behind Normal. Just have the NPC give a warning to players they may spoil story elements by attempting Savage first.

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Tomestone's value is a little more subjective, I think. While it's not as necessary doing easier contents, it still helps (barring ilvl sync contents). And there is a nice psychological element of getting new rewards with a new patch. It feels terrible to still be getting old rewards when new duties are released.

As for removing the story requirement, I think that's a slippery slope that I do not think FFXIV should toy around with as it could lead to removing story requirement elsewhere once people get a taste of it and demand less content gating.