How SE is alienating talented players

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Originally Posted by Yves

I think the word "talent" revolving around a videogame is an oxymoron...

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Originally Posted by Jeffdogg

Lol yeah but it makes the people that need to play video games to get a sense of accomplishment cause they fail at real life. So talented they feel :D

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Oh my looks like someone needs a hug. No need to be so Condescending.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Nope, just illustrating a cultural shift that may represent a generational gap. At no point was my comment insinuating anything but a simple observation. The very idea that "talent" can be represented in an environment in which no such aspects are present is funny. Talent, as it stands, requires an act of physicality. This is why physicists and programers are "gifted" and athletes and entertainers are "talented" - both sets require aspects of ability that are not present in videogames. If anything, games are indicative of the ability to identify trends, cooperate, and react to situations in an artificial setting. These drivers are more closely related to functions of "skill" and/or "awareness."

In reality, the fact that people are redefining what "talent" is lends itself to the question of placation.

In closing, the very fact that you automatically took an objective observation (rooted in common empirical evidence) to be condescending indicates that you yourself may need a hug and/or are a jerk.

Sorry you missed that point.

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I know this isn't any of my business, but I would like to point out that the condesending remark was directed at and originated from Jeffdogg in response to your prior remark.

I don't think Jynx implied that your oxymoron was condescing but rather Jeffdogg's personal interpretation that "it makes the people that need to play video games to get a sense of accomplishment cause they fail at real life", is condescending in that Jeffdogg is implying that video game players incorporate a sense of talent where none is needed to make themselves feel better for failing at life.

Although your analysis of gifted scientist and talented athletes is correct, it would be wise for Jeffdogg not to go around insulting players and calling them failures at life when they misinterpreted the meaning of one word (talent) with that of another (skill). Mind you there are younger players amongst us that might not yet be as proficient as you in the english language.

Sorry you missed the point.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

I know this isn't any of my business, but I would like to point out that the condesending remark was directed at and originated from Jeffdogg in response to your prior remark.

I don't think Jynx implied that your oxymoron was condescing but rather Jeffdogg's personal interpretation that[COLOR=red] "it makes the people that need to play video games to get a sense of accomplishment cause they fail at real life" [/COLOR ] is condescending in that Jeffdogg is implying that video game players incorporate a sense of talent where none is needed to make themselves feel better for failing at life.

Although your analysis of gifted scientist and talented athletes is correct, it would be wise for Jeffdogg not to go around insulting players and calling them failures at life when they misinterpreted the meaning of one word (talent) with that of another (skill). Mind you there are younger players amongst us that might not yet be as proficient as you in the english language.

Sorry you missed the point.

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Well since im not directing what I said at anybody, im not insulting anyone except the people who take it personally therefore them being the ones I am referring to. Its up to them to consider themselves one of those people. If nobody believes at what I am saying is true then I am insulting nobody at all...

And it was not condescending, I was merely making a statement. Once again if anybody takes offense to it or feels insulted by it. Well thats them and just shows what I said was right (not saying I am right, but if people get insulted by it there has to be some truth making it not condescension)

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Although your analysis of gifted scientist and talented athletes is correct, it would be wise for Jeffdogg not to go around insulting players and calling them failures at life when they misinterpreted the meaning of one word (talent) with that of another (skill). Mind you there are younger players amongst us that might not yet be as proficient as you in the english language.

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Even so, there is hardly any skill involved. It seems 98% of players wait for the video to come up on youtube then follow that strategy and class set-up (which mostly involves stacking one class) until it works for them (76.87% of statistics are made up though, of course).

Doing something hundreds of times makes anyone better at anything, too.

Talent(n) : a special natural ability or aptitude, a capacity for achievement or success.
Gift(n): a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent


It can be hard to differnentiate between the two. Some suggestions are:
Gifts are 'gifts' that are given to an individual (be it through God or Genetics), but usually suggests something 'given' rather than developed on ones own.

Talent is usually an ability that one has worked on themself and improved so they are good (talented) at it.


For example:
If you work every day hard to play the piano, and do a good job. You are talented. If you are Mozart, you have a Gift.



(Wow that is so off topic... bear with me as I try to somehow tie it to the topic).


There is room for people to display Talents and Gifts here in Eorzea.


Some people are 'gifted' with the ability to quickly learn and understand how their jobs work. To be able to just 'see' a natural flow and rhtyhm and have an instinct on how to use that job (because they are gifted in understanding the underlying principles.. perhaps they are good with maths or patterns or strategies or just learning in general).

Some people have 'talent'. Like me. I can chat on 8 linkshells at the same time when I'm WHM and hardly anyone dies!

And to tie all this back into the original topic: How SE is alienating talented players. Well, let's start with the fact that that is a Leading question :)

Its not proven that SE is alienating 'talented' players, so we can't really discuss how they are doing it.

I'm a 'talented' player (I can chat and hand out cookiees faster than anyone!) I'm not alienated.

So in reality, the question should be more of:
What is the characteristics of the people that SE is alienating by its present implementation. And is this something that should be addressed?

SE is not alienating 'talented' players (and this is far too generic of a statement). It is perhaps alienating players with specific goals, ambitions, or skill types?

I'm sure it is alienating people who want to have all the latest best gear immediately and get frustrated if it takes them more than a day or two to get it.

But perhaps, that is part of SE's Grand Design? ^.^;

(I would continue typing, but I think I should go back to healing one of my parties here.. we're almost wiping)...(kidding!).

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

[Snip]

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As always, my dear Shayla wins the day.

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Originally Posted by Totobi

Even so, there is hardly any skill involved. It seems 98% of players wait for the video to come up on youtube then follow that strategy and class set-up (which mostly involves stacking one class) until it works for them (76.87% of statistics are made up though, of course).

Doing something hundreds of times makes anyone better at anything, too.

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Sure you can wait for the video and follow the strategy step by step. However, it does take some degree of skill to execute it effectively. If it was as easy as you said it was then everyone would have the 5 chest clear by now.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I'm sure it is alienating people who want to have all the latest best gear immediately and get frustrated if it takes them more than a day or two to get it.

But perhaps, that is part of SE's Grand Design? ^.^;

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Yoshi P, the Grand Architect.