So, can we just ban damage meters already.

Well if anyone is berating others in old content with parsers they deserve a ban. Parsers are only needed for current content when adjusting yourself and/or the group is necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Ehhhhh it's not as accurate as you'd think. I wouldn't ever go off of aggro for that.

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It's actually incredibly accurate now that all aggro management tools that previously existed in the game are gone. For the DPS at least.

It doesn't give you raw numbers, but for a single boss/enemy you can easily tell which DPS is doing more damage just by looking at it.

I feel like I've seen this thread, named exactly the same, so many times XD

Anyways, I'm sorry that you ran into a poopy person in a dungeon. But I must say I only see people like that in maybe one in a hundredish duties, and most of those instances are end-game content where parsing is more or less the norm; most people who do it seem to know to keep it to themselves. Or at least be subtle about pointing out problems. Those who don't exercise tact and discretion... have only themselves to blame when the GM comes knocking.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Why is telling someone that they are under performing (without any insults) is considered as harassment, but the fact that people let themselves to be lazy in duties and not care that with that they are hurting the group - is not?
Why is it that only bad players, those that don't want to improve can be harassed?
No one is ever asking anyone to know their job perfectly and make no mistakes. Just pull your weight and no one will ever tell you anything. Otherwise - use Trust System and don't harass players with your disrespect to their effort and time with your laziness.

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That's exactly my justification for voting those kinds of players out. I select harassment because they are harassing me with their terribleness. Also, the amount of people on these forums that immediately go to "report them" is astounding. Like, you guys are the embodiment of a "grown-up" tattletale.

Firstly, it doesnt sound like that guy even had a parser, we dont have enough info.

Anyone can eyeball a bad player, you dont need a parser to tell you that they arent doing any damage.

Secondly why are people trying to band wagon ban people just cause the TOS updated using every clause under the sun they can get their hands on. If you need to feel and grab for that much power and control over things in a game maybe its time to look at your life.

If someones feelings get hurt oh no, ban. Sorry but no, weather the rules say its against tos or not, grow up.
Are mmorpg gamers just not capable of dealing with toxicity yourselfs anymore and need to run off to daddy GM over every stupid little thing? Please keep that back in WoW. We never did that here unless it was deserved before and theres no reason to start doing it now unless its extreme. A 2 minute whiney baby issue in a dungeon isnt worth getting banned over. If the dungeon ends and the guy starts spamming tells @ the guy non stop for 30 minutes ya sure its time for something, maybe, honestly any grown up would just black list and move on.

Bad players should not be defended.
Players that dont “know”, we should be assuming they have the potential to be good. Thats different then just being flat out bad.

As for the toxic loud mouth, or so its said he was, typically those players are indeed who show up dead last in stat results, most of the top players wont say anything at all. Even if they 100% know who.

If someone is just sitting there only doing their one combo rotation and no other skills bursts etc, ya, thats not knowing, thats bad. And any player can observe that going on without a parser. Especially in a 4 person dungeon, you have nothing else to look at but the other players, hardly any mechanics to deal with.

I dont think giving that person a commendation for playing like that is the right answer, you are sending the wrong message.

You can always plug any keyboard to your PS4 and start typing and arguing in the game and still play with your controller, OP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Bad players should not be defended.
Players that dont “know”, we should be assuming they have the potential to be good. Thats different then just being flat out bad.

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What do you even mean by this statement, how can you tell if someone is "bad" in your definition, or just learning? Just if they open up chat and start trash talking? I mean other than mentors who have all classes to 70, but still can't play their role even adequately somehow. :confused:

In general I think it depends on the type of "bad" player. A "bad" player can improve, they should be defended. This might come as a shock to some of the people who read some of my posts on here as well. They do not deserve to be harassed - nobody does. However, I have a different threshold of what I consider "rude" or "harassment".

Now, I will say if they are the ones doing the "harassment" the right thing to do would be to ignore it and move on. That would be in a perfect world though. In this situation I usually just laugh it off, or start talking about them to my friend over discord - those conversations aren't safe for work or these forums.. I do not think people should be reporting anybody for "harassment" or whatever either, unless it is actually severe enough to warrant it. Both sides are in the wrong. I would actually like it to be difficult to report someone too for this kind of thing. Only the people who truly believe it is worth it will go through the hassle to actually make the report, granted I don't know how hard it is to actually report in this game - I have never reported anybody.

We all have our bad moments, like me apparently - I died stupidly to a mechanic and forgot how to play RDM today when I went in for my weekly ES1 clear. Yeah, I have been playing PoTD monk nonstop, and hadn't even touched es1 since my practice group cleared it where I was also tabbed out and the boss got pulled so I didn't do any good. I won't make any excuses for my bad play, but I don't think I would deserve to be harassed over it. I apologized to my group and we moved on and cleared it. Everyone was good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

What do you even mean by this statement, how can you tell if someone is "bad" in your definition, or just learning? Just if they open up chat and start trash talking?

In general I think it depends on the type of "bad" player. A "bad" player can improve, they should be defended. This might come as a shock to some of the people who read some of my posts on here as well. They do not deserve to be harassed - nobody does. However, I have a different threshold of what I consider "rude" or "harassment".

Now, I will say if they are the ones doing the "harassment" the right thing to do would be to ignore it and move on. That would be in a perfect world though. In this situation I usually just laugh it off, or start talking about them to my friend over discord - those conversations aren't safe for work or these forums.. I do not think people should be reporting anybody for "harassment" or whatever either, unless it is actually severe enough to warrant it. Both sides are in the wrong. I would actually like it to be difficult to report someone too for this kind of thing. Only the people who truly believe it is worth it will go through the hassle to actually make the report, granted I don't know how hard it is to actually report in this game - I have never reported anybody.

We all have our bad moments, like me apparently - I died stupidly to a mechanic and forgot how to play RDM today when I went in for my weekly ES1 clear. Yeah, I have been playing PoTD monk nonstop, and hadn't even touched es1 since my practice group cleared it where I was also tabbed out and the boss got pulled so I didn't do any good. I won't make any excuses for my bad play, but I don't think I would deserve to be harassed over it. I apologized to my group and we moved on and cleared it. Everyone was good.

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What I mean is exactly how I said it. May need to read it differently. My brain types and thinks differntly then most people, idk lol.
If youre level 50+ and all you see is a dps doing a 1 combo rotation, in a 4 player dungeon, thats not learning, thats bad. We also had a SMN in e4s today who did 0 dps for 3 rounds but was NOT afk, and when a dnc called him out he responded with, well im calling out mechanics. (he wasnt). Thats bad too.

But ya same here, in 20 years of mmorpg I can count on one hand the times ive reported.

I get the feeling alot of people in this topic would need two hands for just one week.
We need to put an end to the #DaddyGM business

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

We also had a SMN in e4s today who did 0 dps for 3 rounds but was NOT afk, and when a dnc called him out he responded with, well im calling out mechanics. (he wasnt). Thats bad too.

But ya same here, in 20 years of mmorpg I can count on one hand the times ive reported.

I get the feeling alot of people in this topic would need two hands for just one week.
We need to put an end to the #DaddyGM business

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Yeah, if there is one thing I don't like it's players who don't take responsibility for their bad play, or try to get carried - blatantly. It isn't someone learning, or making a stupid mistake which I can forgive, it's someone knowingly putting in little to no effort so others can do the work for them.

I agree completely on the reporting. It's ridiculous nowadays, and it's like a staple of this game apparently. Report, report, report. I actually feel bad for players (speaking on the topic) who post other players parses or their own constructively in chat - those logs are there forever. All it takes is one person deciding they think it would be funny to report. There are players like that too - people who report for fun, because they know the GM's actually act on it. You can get someone talked to by a GM for reporting cuss words, or "profanity" even as some random person who see's the chat, apparently. It's ridiculous. Like what are we playing, Club Penguin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, if there is one thing I don't like it's players who don't take responsibility for their bad play, or try to get carried - blatantly. It isn't someone learning, or making a stupid mistake which I can forgive, it's someone knowingly putting in little to no effort so others can do the work for them.

I agree completely on the reporting. It's ridiculous nowadays, and it's like a staple of this game apparently. Report, report, report. I actually feel bad for players (speaking on the topic) who post other players parses or their own constructively in chat - those logs are there forever. All it takes is one person deciding they think it would be funny to report. There are players like that too - people who report for fun, because they know the GM's actually act on it. You can get someone talked to by a GM for reporting cuss words, or "profanity" even as some random person who see's the chat, apparently. It's ridiculous. Like what are we playing, Club Penguin?

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I'm convinced there are players in this game they try to bait people into being "toxic" so they can report you. I had two healers (presumably together since they were from the same server) let me die on the first mob of A9 (normal) during a trial roulette. Literally no heals and I died. The other tank picked it up and they let him die too. I asked if they were gonna heal and they started saying something about how he hits really hard and and they didn't have time to heal because we died so fast. I watched them both just casting Malefic II and Broil III instead of doing any healing. I said you something along the lines of "but you didn't heal at all." Then one of them said "lmao" followed by something snarky and I said "lmao all I did was cast Malefic II lmao" mocking him. Which then got me called "edgy" and a "tough guy." We get to the boss and someone asks if we were gonna be able to do it, to which I replied "not if we don't get any heals." I died tanking that too (only got AoE heals) and they almost let the other tank die as well. I assume they did not let him die because they were talking in voice chat and decided they didn't want to waste more time than we already had.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

It is if you criticize me. Either offer specific feedback or stay quiet.
Everything else is a waste of your breath.

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So if a DPS player is pullingless DPS than tanks and healer and only doing 20% of what every other DPS player is doing you're not allowed to call them out if you don't know specifics of how that specfic job works? Ok.

This thread. On the one hand, are there players watching YouTube while running dungeons? Yes. Are they lazy? Yes. Have I wished for the ability to reach through the screen to smack these people? Yes. Often.

That was NOT what the op was about though. This is about low level content, the kind you run shortly after getting your job crystal. If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities? I absolutely agree they should be reported. That is a special level of lording your dps stick around the newer player, and should be treated accordingly harsh.

This thread seems to be 95% 'omg whiners, you all sucked anyway and deserved to be shamed!' So I know this is going to be the unpopular opinion. I just feel like several people in this thread wait outside dungeons to scare sprouts into never running end content at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sub-Xero

I'm convinced there are players in this game they try to bait people into being "toxic" so they can report you. I had two healers (presumably together since they were from the same server) let me die on the first mob of A9 (normal) during a trial roulette. Literally no heals and I died. The other tank picked it up and they let him die too. I asked if they were gonna heal and they started saying something about how he hits really hard and and they didn't have time to heal because we died so fast. I watched them both just casting Malefic II and Broil III instead of doing any healing. I said you something along the lines of "but you didn't heal at all." Then one of them said "lmao" followed by something snarky and I said "lmao all I did was cast Malefic II lmao" mocking him. Which then got me called "edgy" and a "tough guy." We get to the boss and someone asks if we were gonna be able to do it, to which I replied "not if we don't get any heals." I died tanking that too (only got AoE heals) and they almost let the other tank die as well. I assume they did not let him die because they were talking in voice chat and decided they didn't want to waste more time than we already had.

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Perfect example of why GMs need to stop giving people like them attention. Perfectly acceptable that you guys deal with it yourself but it kind of does sound like they were baiting for a report. So silly. #daddygm

And no imbrum, learn to deal with it yourself, stop reporting every little rock someone kicks over in your yard. Youre grown you can handle it yourself.

GMs dont have time to handle real issues anymore because of crap like this. Like gathering bots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

That was NOT what the op was about though. This is about low level content, the kind you run shortly after getting your job crystal. If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities?

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Is that really a problem tho? It never happened to me neither did I ever see this happen in 2 years. Not even when I myself was a noob that had no idea what he was doing. I know that there are statistical anomalies that might end up with the .0005% of players who act that way in every other party, that doesn't make this a general problem that needs to be adressed tho. There are people who've been struck by lightning 5 times or so, whih is bascially impossible. I dont see them running around advocating for more lightning protection for people, bc they know they are the anomaly ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Perfect example of why GMs need to stop giving people like them attention. Perfectly acceptable that you guys deal with it yourself but it kind of does sound like they were baiting for a report. So silly. #daddygm


And no imbrum, learn to deal with it yourself, stop reporting every little rock someone kicks over in your yard. Youre grown you can handle it yourselfl

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Only people I've reported in game have been botters. I just blacklist people who bug me. Thank you for proving you didn't read my post though, as it was about harassing players in low level content, and my concern was for the ones learning their jobs.

Also for your edit: there are I believe 4 people on the special task force for RMT/botting. That's it. Other mods don't touch it. People could report each other all day long or stop en mass and it would not help the botting issue until SE hires more staff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

This thread. On the one hand, are there players watching YouTube while running dungeons? Yes. Are they lazy? Yes. Have I wished for the ability to reach through the screen to smack these people? Yes. Often.

That was NOT what the op was about though. This is about low level content, the kind you run shortly after getting your job crystal. If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities? I absolutely agree they should be reported. That is a special level of lording your dps stick around the newer player, and should be treated accordingly harsh.

This thread seems to be 95% 'omg whiners, you all sucked anyway and deserved to be shamed!' So I know this is going to be the unpopular opinion. I just feel like several people in this thread wait outside dungeons to scare sprouts into never running end content at this point.

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Your rotation is like three buttons at that level and the game basically tells you what to do with the highlights going around the next move. We're not talking about some intricate high level, optimal rotation with weaving or double weaving. We're talking about some low level MSQ (40-ish dungeon). Was someone probably rude/mean to the OP? Yeah, maybe. Was he "harassed" and someone needs to be reported and punished? Yeah... no.

Well you said: If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities? I absolutely agree they should be reported.


I clearly read your post, maybe you should re read what you posted.
Suggesting to report it instead of handling it yourself like an adult.
Seriously, the reporting is getting out of hand. Should not even be suggested anymore

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

This thread. On the one hand, are there players watching YouTube while running dungeons? Yes. Are they lazy? Yes. Have I wished for the ability to reach through the screen to smack these people? Yes. Often.

That was NOT what the op was about though. This is about low level content, the kind you run shortly after getting your job crystal. If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities? I absolutely agree they should be reported. That is a special level of lording your dps stick around the newer player, and should be treated accordingly harsh.

This thread seems to be 95% 'omg whiners, you all sucked anyway and deserved to be shamed!' So I know this is going to be the unpopular opinion. I just feel like several people in this thread wait outside dungeons to scare sprouts into never running end content at this point.

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From my own experience, and I PUG a lot on this game, I never witness anyone trashing a new player. At worst, if we wipe in a boss, a passive-aggressive remark follow. I'm not saying is not happening but is extremely rare.

No. /end thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Is that really a problem tho? It never happened to me neither did I ever see this happen in 2 years. Not even when I myself was a noob that had no idea what he was doing. I know that there are statistical anomalies that might end up with the .0005% of players who act that way in every other party, that doesn't make this a general problem that needs to be adressed tho. There are people who've been struck by lightning 5 times or so, whih is bascially impossible. I dont see them running around advocating for more lightning protection for people, bc they know they are the anomaly ^^

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I have 2 alts I've taken through Ultima Weapon. Worse incident I saw was a tank blowing up at the astrologian who was just trying to learn their job in Stone Vigil, but I've seen it in Brayflox with the add pulls too. No commentary about how to improve, why they should be aoe-ing, how they need to check their new abilities or *shudder* equip their job crystal. Just Vitriol and kick.

Is it the majority? No, of course not. Ff14 wouldn't be known for its friendly community if it was. The op wanted to leave parse shaming out of low content, and I'd agree that 15-45 is good room to allow growth without explosive harassing. I'm not saying ban fflogs, or parsing. I enjoy it myself for improving. I'm saying leave it out of the low low content

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Driavna

From my own experience, and I PUG a lot on this game, I never witness anyone trashing a new player. At worst, if we wipe in a boss, a passive-aggressive remark follow. I'm not saying is not happening but is extremely rare.

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Which is also why I don't understand why the thread exploded the way it did. I would say 95% of my playtime is positive in game unless I'm creating my own misery. And I haven't been running the low content enough to say if it's gotten 5xs worse or not. But harassing low lv content is very different than again, that brd watching YouTube I want to smack through the screen. We know there are players that could use improvement, I'm one of them. But at lv30 I was still trying to figure out how my camera zoomed out, and at lv40 I had barely gotten the hang of the enemy hitbox meanings.

Is everyone as slow as me? No, of course not. At least I hope not... O_o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

I have 2 alts I've taken through Ultima Weapon. Worse incident I saw was a tank blowing up at the astrologian who was just trying to learn their job in Stone Vigil, but I've seen it in Brayflox with the add pulls too. No commentary about how to improve, why they should be aoe-ing, how they need to check their new abilities or *shudder* equip their job crystal. Just Vitriol and kick.

Is it the majority? No, of course not. Ff14 wouldn't be known for its friendly community if it was. The op wanted to leave parse shaming out of low content, and I'd agree that 15-45 is good room to allow growth without explosive harassing. I'm not saying ban fflogs, or parsing. I enjoy it myself for improving. I'm saying leave it out of the low low content

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Do you know how we will really ensure something bad never happens? By removing the ability to use the chat during any DF party! People keep blaming stuff like ACT, but in reality, players can only bully others because they can use the chat. The chat is the source of all evil in this game and needs to be purge!

This is, of course, a joke. Yet, with how "report happy" people are I won't be surprised if at some point becomes a reality.

Edit: Topic like this are always going to blow because there is a sector of the player base that wants to push for "you will carry me no matter what" mentality. And is only "toxic" or "bad behaviour" what others do not what they do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Do you know how we will really ensure something bad never happens? By removing the ability to use the chat during any DF party! People keep blaming stuff like ACT, but in reality, players can only bully others because they can use the chat. The chat is the source of all evil in this game and needs to be purge!

This is, of course, a joke. Yet, with how "report happy" people are I won't be surprised if at some point becomes a reality.

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Oh, no I need the chatbox to survive Prae runs. It's the only way to stay entertained! I'd also miss the occasional useful tip, or the players that do ask for help and are glad to get it. (So many new drgs this expansion, aye aye aye!) Honestly the best thing is to continue the honor system and hope we have better attitudes in learning dungeons. I'm sure it was just one bad incident out of a hundred, but it shouldn't be happening at all.

Blocking parsing would turn into a backlash disaster (and not just from PC players, several of us on ps4 enjoy getting numbers from our statics as well) and I'm not asking for more enforcement or a giant red button that summons the Twin Adders when someone is upset. Just noting that the op's request, to not blow up at people in low content, esp if they are just trying to learn was a good one. I would absolutely replace a player that was continuously messing up/going afk (why!) in current or recent content, though. Time and place for things!

Ah, I see the edit. Yeah, that person going carry me Senpai would fit under replace asap. I do partially get the majority of the posts in here; I'm sure everyone has had THAT player in their group. As for mass reporting, is it really that bad? I hear it is, but I honestly don't know anyone in game that is report happy (other than the occasional bot). We just blacklist or complain to each other on discord, so I find it harder to empathize with that part, I guess?

I'll let everyone get back to hating on the brd watching YouTube though.

Sure thing! Riiight after they remove boss enrages along with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Why are people talking about irl jobs. Working a job and playing a game are barely related. What, you can't run a farm irl? No wonder your gathering gear is so bad. Like what.

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More like "You have to call IT every other day to reset your password? No wonder you can't remember your rotation."

Threads still going, eh..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Well you said: If anyone feels the need to harass players who are probably still learning their rotation as they get new abilities? I absolutely agree they should be reported.


I clearly read your post, maybe you should re read what you posted.
Suggesting to report it instead of handling it yourself like an adult.
Seriously, the reporting is getting out of hand. Should not even be suggested anymore

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lol really, this is where we are now? Of course people harassing new players should be reported. If we can't even get a consensus on something that reasonable it's no wonder this games community is as terrible as it is.

New players aren't just going to hang around when socially inept nerds are constantly taking out their emotional dysfunction and insecurity on them; new players will just leave. Subscription model games need to KEEP players. If you're going to try to chase off new players then SE wants you gone, and obviously I don't blame them. They encourage people to report harassment and take it seriously. If you don't like getting reported then you may want to behave like an adult in groups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

it's no wonder this games community is as terrible as it is.

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Is it tho? Or are you basing that claim on a few worst cases being brought up on the forums while tens of thousands of players are just having a good time?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Is it tho? Or are you basing that claim on a few worst cases being brought up on the forums while tens of thousands of players are just having a good time?

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I'm basing my opinions on what I've personally seen. The only other MMO I've played is WoW and, at least while I was playing, basically no one got harassed in leveling dungeons. Late-game/end-game dungeons sure, but, I barely recall seeing people trying to one-up legitimately new players. Hasn't been the case with this game. The funny thing is that this is the game that actually warns you before runs when someone is new, probably to invoke some sympathy or patience. Seems to have had the opposite effect.

I am glad to hear that at the very least SE takes harassment seriously; with this community they need to. I've kind of gotten used to the idea that reporting people is useless from other games, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I'll start using my report button.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm basing my opinions on what I've personally seen. The only other MMO I've played is WoW and, at least while I was playing, basically no one got harassed in leveling dungeons. Late-game/end-game dungeons sure, but, I barely recall seeing people trying to one-up legitimately new players. Hasn't been the case with this game. The funny thing is that this is the game that actually warns you before runs when someone is new, probably to invoke some sympathy or patience. Seems to have had the opposite effect.

I am glad to hear that at the very least SE takes harassment seriously; with this community they need to. I've kind of gotten used to the idea that reporting people was kind of useless from other games, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I'll start using my report button.

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Again, as I said earlier and many others, we're not buying the story of new players constantly being harassed. I've never seen it, few if any ever do since It's quite rare.

As for WoW, of course you won't see harassment in leveling dungeons, 99% don't even enter a dungeon in WoW anymore as they level due to how much XP quests give, add onto the fact that you can be a few levels above the dungeon and solo it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Again, as I said earlier and many others, we're not buying the story of new players constantly being harassed. I've never seen it, few if any ever do since It's quite rare.

As for WoW, of course you won't see harassment in leveling dungeons, 99% don't even enter a dungeon in WoW anymore as they level due to how much XP quests give, add onto the fact that you can be a few levels above the dungeon and solo it.

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Not too concerned with whether or not you buy it. A lot of the responses and attitudes on this forum have confirmed for me what I've seen in the game.

I played WoW a while ago, and leveling dungeons were used plenty. I queued up constantly; with how fast you could stomp them it was faster than questing at a lot of intervals. It was common knowledge that the classes were heavily imbalanced before max level, though; with tanks and a few other AoE classes doing the vast majority of damage. Still, no ego trips or BS in leveling dungeons, and meters were perfectly legal. Just a better community, at least when it came to new players. The end game was every bit as toxic as what I've seen here, though. I honestly can't wait to see how bad the real progression content is here, seeing this communities attitude towards new players in trivial leveling dungeons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Not too concerned with whether or not you buy it. A lot of the responses and attitudes on this forum have confirmed for me what I've seen in the game.

I played WoW a little while ago, and leveling dungeons were used plenty. I queued up constantly; with how fast you could stomp them it was faster than questing at a lot of intervals. It was common knowledge that the classes were heavily imbalanced before max level, though; with tanks and a few other AoE classes doing the vast majority of damage. Still, no ego trips or BS in leveling dungeons, and meters were perfectly legal. Just a better community, at least when it came to new players. The end game was every bit as toxic as what I've seen here, though. I honestly can't wait to see how bad the real progression content is here, seeing this communities attitude towards new players in trivial leveling dungeons.

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End game is like any MMO. You lack the skill, good luck since won't see the content.
Think my guild cleared Vanilla Naxx 40 with luck pre 2.0 nerfs? Ha... Think we cleared Sunwell Pre Nerfs to M'uru and then pre patch nerfs with luck? lol... Think we got Server Firsts every time, and kept top 10 US and Top 47 World with Luck? nope...

It's like any MMO, you get back what you put into it. Slack and not have the skills needed and you simply don't progress, not hard to understand really.

And you've not seen anyone here mocking or attacking low level players in leveling dungeons. Keep in mind, once 50, no such thing as low end dungeons since can now do hard modes etc, which need people not to do stupid things. You get access to some rather difficult raids as well once unlock them. So, if you're thinking anything 50 and over as low level content, you need to change your mind set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

End game is like any MMO. You lack the skill, good luck since won't see the content.
Think my guild cleared Vanilla Naxx 40 with luck pre 2.0 nerfs? Ha... Think we cleared Sunwell Pre Nerfs to M'uru and then pre patch nerfs with luck? lol... Think we got Server Firsts every time, and kept top 10 US and Top 47 World with Luck? nope...

It's like any MMO, you get back what you put into it. Slack and not have the skills needed and you simply don't progress, not hard to understand really.

And you've not seen anyone here mocking or attacking low level players in leveling dungeons. Keep in mind, once 50, no such thing as low end dungeons since can now do hard modes etc, which need people not to do stupid things. You get access to some rather difficult raids as well once unlock them. So, if you're thinking anything 50 and over as low level content, you need to change your mind set.

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Yea, I know how progression works. If you want to know what level content I'm talking about re-read the OP. It's not hard modes I'm seeing this in.

What I'm seeing in this thread is people justifying harassment. Basically that new players need to A) suck it up and deal with it, or B) get better because they're holding the team back. Apparently leveling dungeons are serious business, never mind the fact that I've yet to see an actual wipe in one.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

lol really, this is where we are now? Of course people harassing new players should be reported. If we can't even get a consensus on something that reasonable it's no wonder this games community is as terrible as it is.

New players aren't just going to hang around when socially inept nerds are constantly taking out their emotional dysfunction and insecurity on them; new players will just leave. Subscription model games need to KEEP players. If you're going to try to chase off new players then SE wants you gone, and obviously I don't blame them. They encourage people to report harassment and take it seriously. If you don't like getting reported then you may want to behave like an adult in groups.

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Just some friendly advice thats not 100% linkes to the original topic, but to your constant claims of this community being terrible: In my experience what you get out of things in general and social interactions in particular is what you put into it.
Going by the language you're using here you seem to put a lot of hate and anger into your interactions, aswell as an almost arrogant sense of "I have every damn right to be here and everyone has to put up with that! Deal with it!" Going by my personal theory of you-get-back-what-you-put-into-it I'm not surprised that your experience hasnt been all to pleasent, since I'll assume that the experience your party-members had with you wasnt to pleasent either.

I kinda like that you bring up the topic of "behaving an adult" because for me that includes standing up for your mistakes and doing everything in your power to improve as much as it includes not insulting people (for example by refering to them as "socially inept nerds" - thats just not a very mature thing to say).

If you want to have a better experience within the game and with the people playing the game you're better off making an effort by playing well, communicating and being a nice person that people would want to be nice to.
This is not me saying that harrassement is okay if you dont make an effort yourself, I can not stress enough that harrassement is never okay and should be reported!
But if your experience of the community is such an unpleasent one that you're going out of your way to spit out general insults you might want to look at your own behaviour and see if you cant improve upon that to make your own experience of the game and its community a better one.
In my experience the wast majority of people in this game are actually very nice, with the odd jerk here and there - but thats life. And you'll have a better time dealing with it if you change your own approach. You cant get rid of all the jerks and you probably cant even change one of them. You can only change how you, yourself, deal with them. And if you dont mind me saying this: You dont seem to have found a way that makes you happy yet.

So, yeah... my advice: Report them AND find a way for yourself to move on. Going on an insult-filled rampage on the forums doesnt seem like a good way, in my opinion at least.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Yea, I know how progression works. If you want to know what level content I'm talking about re-read the OP. It's not hard modes I'm seeing this in.

What I'm seeing in this thread is people justifying harassment. Basically that new players need to A) suck it up and deal with it, or B) get better because they're holding the team back. Apparently leveling dungeons are serious business, never mind the fact that I've yet to see an actual wipe in one.

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No, since no one here in this thread has ever said harassment is ok. You'd think you'd read the posts in the thread you created. People are saying that asking someone to do better, or to take advice given, is not harassment.

And yes, new players do NEED to get better. Their time is not more important then others time, them slowing a group down from wiping, or not paying attention, or taking too much damage etc is a drag on the entire group. And if they do not learn now, they will struggle and have an even worse experience at level 80.

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

This thread seems to be 95% 'omg whiners, you all sucked anyway and deserved to be shamed!' So I know this is going to be the unpopular opinion. I just feel like several people in this thread wait outside dungeons to scare sprouts into never running end content at this point.

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I do love the extremes people come up with for those simply disagreeing on what constitutes as harassment, which is what most of this thread has been about. There were multiple pages debating on if certain phrases were harassment or not that had little to do with OP's story.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If we can't even get a consensus on something that reasonable it's no wonder this games community is as terrible as it is.

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What are you basing this statement off of? Your experience? I'll meet your anecdote with one of mine: I've played this game for going on 4 years this fall. I have multiple alts, and I've done just about every piece of content on my main. The amount of times I see people "harassing" new players is extremely small. Most of the time, people are silent in the baby content.

I've seen one instance of parser harassment, and that was in Zurvan EX back in HW. The person was being mean about it, and were removed from the party and reported in kind. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of this.

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So, yeah... my advice: Report them AND find a way for yourself to move on. Going on an insult-filled rampage on the forums doesnt seem like a good way, in my opinion at least.

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I will report them, and I wouldn't call what I'm doing here an insult filled rampage. The community as of right now, in my experience, has been terrible. It's feedback and it's posted in a place where SE might generally want to see feedback.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

No, since no one here in this thread has ever said harassment is ok. You'd think you'd read the posts in the thread you created. People are saying that asking someone to do better, or to take advice given, is not harassment.

And yes, new players do NEED to get better. Their time is not more important then others time, them slowing a group down from wiping, or not paying attention, or taking too much damage etc is a drag on the entire group. And if they do not learn now, they will struggle and have an even worse experience at level 80.

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They NEED to get better in the content they NEED to be better for. This is just dumb; quit trying to justify harassing them in leveling dungeons.

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What are you basing this statement off of? Your experience? I'll meet your anecdote with one of mine: I've played this game for going on 4 years this fall. I have multiple alts, and I've done just about every piece of content on my main. The amount of times I see people "harassing" new players is extremely small. Most of the time, people are silent in the baby content.

I've seen one instance of parser harassment, and that was in Zurvan EX back in HW. The person was being mean about it, and were removed from the party and reported in kind. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of this.

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That's great. I'm not going to spend an entire thread trying to discount your experiences; I'm just stating my own. The one thing everyone does seem to agree on is that SE tries to do something about the bad parts of this community, and for that I'll give the game credit. The community, however, as of now has been terrible.

If anyone in your group is talking about damage metres in chat, report them, and GMs will take action. As others have said, it is a bannable offense.


That said, S-E really should just hide the combat log from all clients, thereby killing off metres and logs. Not that I have a problem with metres and logs, but it's insane that two platforms (PC and Steam) are allowed to have it but another (PS4) is not. Either everyone has access or no one does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I will report them, and I wouldn't call what I'm doing here an insult filled rampage. The community as of right now, in my experience, has been terrible. It's feedback and it's posted in a place where SE might generally want to see feedback.



They NEED to get better in the content they NEED to be better for. This is just dumb; quit trying to justify harassing them in leveling dungeons.



That's great. I'm not going to spend an entire thread trying to discount your experiences; I'm just stating my own. The one thing everyone does seem to agree on is that SE tries to do something about the bad parts of this community, and for that I'll give the game credit. The community, however, as of now has been terrible.

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No one is harassing anyone... Ever... You're a liar, we all know this since no one hardly ever sees this harassment you claim and are adamant about being non stop. And I've been running "Leveling Dungeons" (No such thing btw, except for 5 of them, after Thousand Maws you have to start paying attention. 10 if you count the Daily Roulette's) Non stop to level other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

That's great. I'm not going to spend an entire thread trying to discount your experiences; I'm just stating my own. The one thing everyone does seem to agree on is that SE tries to do something about the bad parts of this community, and for that I'll give the game credit. The community, however, as of now has been terrible.

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Except, you’ll base your assumptions of the entire community off of your own limited experiences. This community is no better or worse than any other gaming community, and attempting to vilify it off of limited experience won’t really do you many favors. It comes off as an nonconstructive and salty dig at the playerbase and not much else.