Revelations from the Shadowbringers E3 Trailer

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Definitely Emet-Selch with that Zelara symbol:

https://i.imgflip.com/336sel.jpg

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Originally Posted by ShadowSolaris7

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...l2SoHDOYng.jpg

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And finally: Zalera from FFXII

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110901020449

Source: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zalera

In details different, but also some similarities.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

And finally: Zalera from FFXII

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110901020449

Source: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zalera

In details different, but also some similarities.

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That final scene when he's explaining the Hydalyn Zodiark thing, hes standing in front of a wall that kept screwing with me because it gave him demonic wings, just like your final pic shows. Youre definitely onto something

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I think I get it, but... I'm not really sure how we're supposed to resolve all this.

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Hm if they go with the way of some FF games then this information may tell us that they are not 100% needed for future survival so we will kill both because "primals" and then humankind will reign itself..(which would be funny because seemingly all that happened because the humans created them..so who is to say that this wont happen again)

Or they could use this as a reason for us to destroy Zodiarc but stand on Hydaelyns side because she seemingly does care about her "children" and we find a way to still hold the balance. (Something about humans having enough Darkness themselves)

Anyway I agree with you that it does not change much right now. But of course it could be used to divide the scions a bit.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Elidibus was of whom I was speaking about with him dangling a carrot in front of our noses. With him not telling us or giving more of an explanation on what he means tends to throw him in the category of ... "yeah, that's nice but I dont trust you still your an ascian."

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That is 100% my problem with him: "Hey I know it better and you would believe me if I told you but I dont..."

I mean why not tell us? Why does it seem like he and the other Ascians dont have 100% the same goal?

Well I know for a fact his goal and lahabrea's was completely different due to that one scene between 2.0 and 3.0 where they were talking. Lahabrea I think was going to try to take over as zodiark (cant be too sure with that exactly but yeah I watched that scene a lot) .

Also... I think that's the problem everyone has with him well that and now he's going as crazy against us.

The only thing I can chalk it up to with Elidibus is that he's still an ascian and is still trying to be kinda a douche. Honestly though unless we are able to confront him about it without him brutally trying to kill us, then we'll never know, kinda like with how many real licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop....

And sorry I work over nights and my shift is ending so my brain is starting to get sillier especially now that I have the tootsie roll jingle playing in my head..... help me...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As an aside, the trailers are usually deceptive to a degree. A character being shown, for instance, isn't necessarily the one speaking a particular line.

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Everyone, listen to the Garlean - he speaks the truth.

Remember the Stormblood launch trailer and how shocked we were about Y'shtola? And we all know how that turned out... (she got better). Don't judge a grimoire by it's cover. ;)

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm also very curious about Eulmore. Sin Eaters used to be regular people but supposedly need to feed off of living aether. They're also part of Eulmore society. That's going to raise all sorts of interesting dilemmas if they're sentient and still maintain part of who they used to be.

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The thing is, this is hardly a new idea as SE has used a similar plot line in previous FF games dating all the way back to FFVII and it's makonoids (humans warped by Mako energy). There is no indication anywhere in the trailer as far as I can see that Sin Eaters still retain some semblence of their former selves, no more than what Voidsent do (or rather, Voidsent hosts that were once living beings such as Mindflayers and Succubi, others like Dullahan... were never alive to begin with). But we'll find out either way.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Actual question because I can't remember: When they say they want to revive their god do they ever NAME Zodiark during those points, or do they say their "one, true god"?

Because some of those cave paintings imply that Hydaelyn and Zodiark were once one being.

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Pretty sure that was actually explicitly said rather then implied back towards the end of ARR or during it's epilogue.

On the topic of primals being able to grant blessings: wasn't that what Bahamut did to van Darnus back in Legacy? I know there was also tempering involved but Darnus became capable of using some level of magic thanks to the "blessing" right?

I didn't play Legacy but that's the impression i got from what i've read/seen.

Although there's every likelihood that the trailer is misleading and out of sequence, they sometimes take the opposite approach too, as with the 4.5 trailer, which was not nearly as misleading as some prior ones.

Anyway, it's interesting that they've confirmed Eden will relate to the MSQ story regarding the aftermath for the First, so there's every chance it will relate to the past, as well.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Well I know for a fact his goal and lahabrea's was completely different due to that one scene between 2.0 and 3.0 where they were talking. Lahabrea I think was going to try to take over as zodiark (cant be too sure with that exactly but yeah I watched that scene a lot) .

Also... I think that's the problem everyone has with him well that and now he's going as crazy against us.

The only thing I can chalk it up to with Elidibus is that he's still an ascian and is still trying to be kinda a douche. Honestly though unless we are able to confront him about it without him brutally trying to kill us, then we'll never know,

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Part of the problem is that his role is to keep the other Ascian Overlords in check to ensure their plan goes forward without a hitch. He already took a risk by associating with the WoL, and testing him. He then took another by bringing Unukalhai to the WoL to assist with the Warring Triad. My point here is that he may be watching his back in terms of how much he's willing to divulge. It's a lot easier to get away with it if he's dropping cryptic hints than if he's doing what Emet-Selch now is.

With Lahabrea out the way, that ought to have changed though, and I do think there's been a marked departure from his usual approach in 4.5, but it's probably for two reasons - 1) they have Emet-Selch, who can walk around more freely than him and has good entertainment value, so they've probably shifted some of the narrative that would have been Elidibus's to him and 2) the imbalance on the Source is at the point where he needs to effect a drastic tilt towards darkness to ensure their plans aren't thrown into oblivion. Arbert cottoned on to the idea that killing the WoL would result in this, so there is no doubt Elidibus arrived at the same conclusion. He hasn't really got the luxury of time, probably because of Lahabrea's recklessness, which I suspect is a big part of why the imbalance of light has accelerated. Emet-Selch and Elidibus are cleaning up the mess he left behind. Whatever potential he sees in the WoL, the overarching goal takes priority.

Without the burden of shepherding the other Overlords, and not as concerned with the immediacy of staving off a flood on the Source, I expect Emet-Selch will be able to speak more freely, albeit we still don't know his true motives. Although there is the chance that Elidibus is genuinely concerned about the balance in the abstract - and that is why he serves Zodiark - Emet-Selch may have more insidious plans. However, that is purely speculative at this point. Were he Lahabrea or Nabriales, it'd be easier to arrive at such a conclusion. Varis's speech in the tent - if he was possessed by Emet-Selch - may be the biggest clue we have as to his motives and that may in turn tie into whether he was around at the time Zodiark and Hydaelyn came to be. That may be what it truly means to be one of the "original" Paragons.

We're forgetting who has the key to salvation, Graha and Allagans. The Allagans were the ones who most likely figured out what the balance between dark and light really means and how it can be achieved. Instead of fighting for one or the other Graha will show us how to tame both energies using the Crystal tower or some other Allagan technology.
My theory here as to why we see crystal towers everywhere in the first is because it's a device used to balance/purify the light. We just need to help these generators be more in balance by bringing a bit more darkness into the world.

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Originally Posted by Guiballad

On the topic of primals being able to grant blessings: wasn't that what Bahamut did to van Darnus back in Legacy? I know there was also tempering involved but Darnus became capable of using some level of magic thanks to the "blessing" right?

I didn't play Legacy but that's the impression i got from what i've read/seen.

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Bahamut Tempered Nael and bestowed upon her some of his power, yes. For all we know, he simply turned her Tempering to eleven and created the monstrosity we fight in the Second Coil in a fashion similar to how repeated Temperings warped Captain Madison into a kraken-faced monster (and his crewmen to aurelia-faced ones). Nael might've referred to it as a blessing, but... any Tempered person receiving a gift from their god might consider it a lowercase b blessing opposed to an uppercase B—which is likely a distinction Nael would not have known about.

Hydaelyn's Blessing of Light is her equivalent to tempering. Ifrit immediately notes the oddity in his inability to temper you, then follows up by stating that mortal souls can only have one blessing - implying that Hydaelyn has already blessed (tempered) the Warrior of Light by that point. (However, do note that whatever you make of Solus stating Hydaelyn (and Zodiark) are primals, it's never been used to compel the Warrior of Light to do anything in the same way (other) primals compel slavish devotion with their tempering.)

Given Solus (Emet-Selch) told Varis he didn't think they'd see each other again in this lifetime and then walked off, before the parley... I think it's fairly safe to say the latter isn't being possessed or influenced by the former at this time. It looks like Emet-Selch is going to be an antagonistic force on the First, and whatever his grand master plan is I doubt he has the need or desire to bounce back and forth across the two worlds... as long as Varis uses Black Rose, as he says he would.

The governor of Eulmore mentions Sin Eaters are a part of their society, but... I doubt it's in much of a friendly way. On the contrary, it looks like they just feed "undesirables" to the Sin Eaters to appease them and keep the party going, rather than having them as integrated citizens. Can I stab that corpulent SOB at some point? Pretty please?

Err... The Blessing of Light is not what makes us temper immune. That would be the Echo. And it turns out the Ascians have the Echo as well. So either the Echo is both Zodiark and Hydaelyn's way of tempering or it's something else.

One of the things I don't see brought up a lot is that if Hydaelyn is tempering us with the Echo (and I don't think she is, btw) then the Ascians must be tempered by Zodiark as well. So if we're sort of in trouble working for a primal that wants the world to keep going, the Ascians are really in trouble for working for a primal that wants to destroy it.

If I had to guess, the Echo has nothing to do with Primals. It's an "echo" of the pre-split Hydiark (Zodaelyn?) times. Hydaelyn and Zodiark are the eldest of Primals, meaning they're the first two. Ergo, the entity that came before them is not a Primal, it's merely something man saw, interpreted differently, thus creating duality in it, and ultimately created Hydaelyn and Zodiark from. Ysayle didn't summon actual Shiva, after all, she summoned her interpretation of Shiva. That's just how summoning work.

We already know what it was they interpreted differently, it's out right stated that they wanted to manifest the will of the star, star being planet in ye olde tongue. What do planets do? Rotate, give us night and day, Light and Dark... There's no actual duality involved there, not until we interpret it as such. One group prefers the day, the other night, thus two Primals are born from one. Given the state we find the First in (perpetual daylight) and what we're going there to ultimately do (restore night), I imagine the day/night theme is spot on.

Now, two Primals are born from the same summoning. Suddenly there is duality, there's division, the will of the star, the aether of the star, is split between Light and Dark. The Echo then, is just a memory, a vestige of how things were before that. If I had to guess, Varis is being manipulated by the Ascians (duh) and he has actually already succeeded in "returning man to how they were before" via the Resonant; Artificial Echo. Perhaps not a complete form of what once was, but I imagine close enough given we're already putting down Ascians left and right and Zenos is able to body-jack Primals to Thordanize Ascians at will, potentially. And as an aside, the very existence of an artificial Echo helpfully handwaves the whole "How do Ascians/Leviathan/etc. give people Echo then?" question.

What do Ascians want out of all this? My guess is for Zodiark to be the one true god. We're not tempered, but they certainly are. Due to their nature, Hydaelyn and Zodiark cannot exist at the same time, they embody division. Hydaelyns solution? What we have now, split reality up. Both continue to exist in fractured realities, and thus technically they're not interfering with each other. Zodiarks solution? Well, the Ascians at least, seems to be a Highlander solution; There can only be one. Have Zodiark absorb Hydaelyn to create one Twilight God, I guess... Return things to how they once were, Light and Dark in one being... Except, that's not how things once were, is it? A Zodaelyn Primal is still a Primal. If I had to guess, Hydaelyns plan is actually the same as Alexanders, a "I cannot exist" plan, problem being so long as Zodiark exists, she has to as well. Balance is requires so both need to exist for now, so she stalls for time instead, until someone who can put them both down comes along. Problem being she can only nurture a Blessing of Light, and I imagine a Blessing of Darkness is also a requirement in this plan...

I'm of the mind that this revelation won't actually change us to being against Hydaelyn, and I think it has to do with something learned in 4.5.

Since Ascians tend to give half-truth rather than totally outright lie, I wonder if Varis is actually correct in that there IS an origin race, but that race is Ascians and that is why the Ascians view life now as an abomination.

The Ascians want things back and will rationalize their being primals to try to turn us against Hydaelyn. To what we know so far She is the planet we're on, and the aether She's using is the life stream which flows back to us. We can't kill them without undoing all of existence as we know it, which incidentally the Ascians are all about doing.

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

I'm of the mind that this revelation won't actually change us to being against Hydaelyn, and I think it has to do with something learned in 4.5.

Since Ascians tend to give half-truth rather than totally outright lie, I wonder if Varis is actually correct in that there IS an origin race, but that race is Ascians and that is why the Ascians view life now as an abomination.

The Ascians want things back and will rationalize their being primals to try to turn us against Hydaelyn. To what we know so far She is the planet we're on, and the aether She's using is the life stream which flows back to us. We can't kill them without undoing all of existence as we know it, which incidentally the Ascians are all about doing.

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I have a feeling we may later discover history about the world before Hydaelyn and Zodiark arriving in 5.0 and/or 5.X storyline to set the foundation for 6.0 plot that may involve creating a world where Hydaelyn and Zodiark are no longer needed.

lore wise people assume Hydaelyn and Zodiark are required for life to exist but if there is a time before their creation where life continue to exist then the world does not need Hydaelyn nor Zodiark and all this time they have been just pushing the ideal we need them to exists because that is the only way people will choose freely to worship them.

But nobody knows about them, much less worships them. There's a whopping twenty or less believers on each side of that equation unless the Ascians don't actually support Zodiark.

The people who "assume" they're needed can be counted on fingers, it is a deep secret.

And what I'm saying is the time before their creation was just the Aetherial Sea, and Ascians. The Ascians want it returned to that, but we kind of like how the world is right now.

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Originally Posted by Cybylt

But nobody knows about them, much less worships them. There's a whopping twenty or less believers on each side of that equation unless the Ascians don't actually support Zodiark.

The people who "assume" they're needed can be counted on fingers, it is a deep secret.

And what I'm saying is the time before their creation was just the Aetherial Sea, and Ascians. The Ascians want it returned to that, but we kind of like how the world is right now.

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We are taking history but what is recorded and common knowledge.

However, there is a saying in GW2 from the Priory being "History never lies but Historians do."

The knowledge about what the world is like before Hydaelyn and Zodiark is greatly limited to what is recorded by Historians and the Ascians are Historians themselves being the ones who know a bit more about the origins of Hydaelyn and Zodiark but beyond that they have little knowledge.

The Aetherial Sea could have been anything or nothing. For all we know the Aetherial Sea may have been created by the mass collection of souls of living beings from the era before Hydaelyn and Zodiark collected by the being that Hydaelyn and Zodiark will form since we know Life energy is the purest form of Aether and to create the world we know in FF14 the purest form of Aether was used to create everything.

I still can't fathom how so many people came to the idea that Varis was being controlled, other than one brief smile. As said in another thread, Solus plainly told Varis that they would not meet again in his timeline (which in itself could mean a few different things now that the First is likely going to contain some wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey issues), but at face value it means Solus is heading off to be his meddling self and will not be on the Source, leaving Varis to his own devices, after plenty of cutscenes showing Varis' venomous discontent at the concept of the empire being a puppeteered tool for the Ascians. Varis will no doubt throw some curveballs to wrest control of the empire back to the 'normies', even if it will in the end be for his grand scheme of one-true-master-race despite it.

I took nothing from that 'smile' other than a reaffirmation of the fact that despite any hints given that we 'might' have some common ground with Varis re. hate of Ascians, that no, Varis is indeed a big-bad unto himself as well. By the time we sort out the First, there will no doubt be Black-Rose-Empire shenanigans running rampant on the Source, with Estinien and Gaius serving as our cutscene 'eyes' on those matters while we're off eating Sin Eaters for breakfast, with a side dose of Solus.

Another topic:

It seems the 5.0 Storyline may have major dialogue changes based on if the player has unlocked their Dark Knight Job or not similar to 3.0 with the Dragoon Job unlock or not.

We see a Dark knight Job exclusive dialogue in the trailer with the First version of our Starting Merchant commenting about not seen a Dark Knight Job user for over 100 years.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

I still can't fathom how so many people came to the idea that Varis was being controlled, other than one brief smile.

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It relies heavily on speculation, but the key points are that Varis is typically very stoic, there's nothing stopping the Ascians from possessing him to assume direct control if they need to, and the possibility that he's just playing along with their goals to ultimately backstab them. (The last is technically true, but the juncture at which he intends to enact that plan is so late in the game it's anyone's guess as to whether it would work or not.)

However as you said Emet-Selch (Solus) said he probably wouldn't ever see Varis again before the parley scenes and walked offscreen (implicitly to the First), and post-4.56 Elidibus is still possessing Zenos.

Ultimately it's just speculative wish fulfillment on the part of people who want the Garlean Empire, and Varis in particular, to not be evil... even though they've begun following the mold of Na... ahem, 1940s Germany even more closely in the last patch.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Another topic:

It seems the 5.0 Storyline may have major dialogue changes based on if the player has unlocked their Dark Knight Job or not similar to 3.0 with the Dragoon Job unlock or not.

We see a Dark knight Job exclusive dialogue in the trailer with the First version of our Starting Merchant commenting about not seen a Dark Knight Job user for over 100 years.

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That's either a double meaning, or more of a reference to how night has not fallen on the First in a century. It's always daytime there, until something we accomplish in 5.0 finally brings back the night (probably slaying Innocence, if the opening cinematic is anything to go by).

Youshida let it slip at the Tokyo Fan-Fest that we will be returning night to the zones as we go through them. So I fully expect the 1st Shard to have regular day/night cycles by the time we finish the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Youshida let it slip at the Tokyo Fan-Fest that we will be returning night to the zones as we go through them. So I fully expect the 1st Shard to have regular day/night cycles by the time we finish the MSQ.

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I mean, we see the WoD breaking apart the light clouds near the end of the trailer, so that was never in doubt, no?

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Another topic:

It seems the 5.0 Storyline may have major dialogue changes based on if the player has unlocked their Dark Knight Job or not similar to 3.0 with the Dragoon Job unlock or not.

We see a Dark knight Job exclusive dialogue in the trailer with the First version of our Starting Merchant commenting about not seen a Dark Knight Job user for over 100 years.

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And here we have another subtlety in translation. In the french tralier the Merchant merely ask the WOL what he is doing here in the middle of the night before laughing asking why he is surprised since it had been a century since there was darkness in this world.

Makes me wonder what other suble difference in dialogue there may be.

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Originally Posted by Lieha

And here we have another subtlety in translation. In the french tralier the Merchant merely ask the WOL what he is doing here in the middle of the night before laughing asking why he is surprised since it had been a century since there was darkness in this world.

Makes me wonder what other suble difference in dialogue there may be.

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While the English version is for sure tripping people up its also a fun little piece of dialogue since the First certainly hasn't had a Dark Knight in the same amount of time they haven't had a dark night. Atleast up to that scene if you are, in fact, a Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Another topic:

It seems the 5.0 Storyline may have major dialogue changes based on if the player has unlocked their Dark Knight Job or not similar to 3.0 with the Dragoon Job unlock or not.

We see a Dark knight Job exclusive dialogue in the trailer with the First version of our Starting Merchant commenting about not seen a Dark Knight Job user for over 100 years.

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He is saying "Dark Night" and not "Dark Knight". The french and german version, in which these two words don't sound similar, makes that clear.

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Originally Posted by Scryar

He is saying "Dark Night" and not "Dark Knight". The french and german version, in which these two words don't sound similar, makes that clear.

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That's what I was thinking. How would he know we are a Dark Knight anyway. We could say our weapon, but look at Pipin, he's not a Dark Knight. Our outfit can't give it away because it would be glamoured. And he doesn't know us very well. Krile referencing us as a healer in SB made sense since she knows us.

Let me quote the merchant from the German trailer for you:
"Was machst du hier mitten in der Nacht? Hehehehehehe... Hundert Jahre ist das jetzt her... Hundert Jahre ohne eine einzige dunkle Nacht."

For those who don't speak my native language: The merchant asks, what the player is doing here in the middle of the night, starts chuckling and THEN states, that the last dark night was (one-)hundred years ago. ("Hundred years without a single dark night.")

Night = Nacht
(Dark-)Knight = (Dunkel-)Ritter

Gotta love the English language having multiple words sound exactly the same but with vastly different meanings XD

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Originally Posted by Alleo

That is 100% my problem with him: "Hey I know it better and you would believe me if I told you but I dont..."

I mean why not tell us? Why does it seem like he and the other Ascians dont have 100% the same goal?

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It could be that it's something that you can't be "told". Any explanation he could give with words would lack the proper frame of reference. To truly see what a bad place the universe is in, you would need to have the perspective of an Ascian, to be able to see and experience what they do. Because the WoL is not an Ascian or an Ascian-like being, the danger is too high that they would remain unconvinced - and believing they then have the full picture, would fight all the more adamantly.

By staying silent on the matter, the seed of doubt remains. IS there some truth to the necessity of the Ascians' goals? Might it be that opposing them really is the wrong thing to do? There's a lot we don't know about the universe - can it be that something WORSE than the eradication of life on all worlds is on the horizon? That is Elidibus's hope, I think, to keep the WoL wondering, and to place cracks in their resolve.

Of course, even if Elidibus is totally full of crap, he can benefit from these seeds of doubt, so staying silent is to his benefit either way!

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Gotta love the English language having multiple words sound exactly the same but with vastly different meanings XD

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I'm pretty sure it's deliberate, because Koji loves his puns.

Relevant:

CGM: Until now, much of FFXIV‘s narrative has been centered around the player being a champion of Light who fights against the forces of Darkness.. With Shadowbringers, the script is flipped on a large scale. Were there any challenges in disentangling the ideas of “good” and “light” from one another, and how is this reflected in your creative approach to enemy design in Shadowbringers?

NY: From my own personal experience with fantasy media, there typically seems to be a conflation of “light” or “justice” with the notion of “good.” It feels unilateral to me. Surely any force that goes too far in one direction can’t be entirely good, right? That’s why I figured that if there was too much “light” in the world of FFXIV, then there had to be some negative effects. The linchpin here is the Warrior of Light being so thoroughly active in their duties as the realm’s champion that their “light” has become overbearing, disrupting the balance. That’s exactly what happened in the First—the setting for Shadowbringers—and why it has been decimated by the Flood of Light. We felt that restoring that balance would make for a very Final Fantasy-like narrative.

In terms of enemy design for Shadowbringers, this was actually a big stumbling block for us. Some context: generally speaking, Japanese people tend to be rather…agonstic, so to speak, acknowledging aspects of all religions. On Christmas, we exchange presents with one another, but a week later, we’re at Shinto shrines making offerings for the New Year. We’re neutral in that sense. So when we think about the concept of “evil,” we have a comparatively large pool of ideas to draw from. Now, in designing foes that stem from a source of light that has become too powerful, it’s all too easy to immediately jump to the idea of a fallen angel. We specifically wanted to avoid that pitfall in Shadowbringers. Players will be fighting against the First’s “Sin Eaters,” yes, but they are not necessarily angels. It’s funny—when our artists first started conceptualizing new enemies, many couldn’t resist the pull of drawing meticulously feathered wings on their creatures. I feel that’s oversimplifying things. That’s why I had to ask them for several retakes whenever I saw those wings start to appear. I had to explicitly ask them to tone down the designs. Basically…I told them to come up with something super demonic-looking, and then make it white. (laughs) We definitely did struggle with this concept because it’s apparently been ingrained into our collective consciousness to associate white with “good” and black with “evil.”


Source: https://www.cgmagonline.com/2019/06/...naoki-yoshida/

was thinking after watching the recent trailer we seem to still be useing the light to do major stuff so my question is why are we going darkside i tought we were going warrior of darkess to combat light but in trailer we use light to combat light am i missing sumthing?

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

was thinking after watching the recent trailer we seem to still be useing the light to do major stuff so my question is why are we going darkside i tought we were going warrior of darkess to combat light but in trailer we use light to combat light am i missing sumthing?

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that was just some crap they made up for the trailers and advertising.

for the most part we will be doing the same yes-man stuff we have always been doing. just this time we are killing stuff thats infected with light instead of dark

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

was thinking after watching the recent trailer we seem to still be useing the light to do major stuff so my question is why are we going darkside i tought we were going warrior of darkess to combat light but in trailer we use light to combat light am i missing sumthing?

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Same reason the one sent to stop the Flood was the Word of the Mother. Hydaelyn and the Blessing of Light still provide power beyond any other mortal.

Finally saw the trailer. Totally called it, years ago even, not that I can claim any sort of exclusivity on that... Now to just sit tight for two more weeks.


Oh, and I guess there's a Live Letter tomorrow.

The issue with the "too much Light" angle is that it doesn't really present an alternative. If we have the power to help people, shouldn't we do so?

I understand the dangers of helping people too much; this leads to indolence (re: Zofia from Fire Emblem Gaiden / Echoes: Shadows of Valentia) or stagnation. That said the alternative is to let lots of people suffer and die unnecessary deaths because "balance dood"... and I can't really abide that.

I seriously hope we get more information on the subject going forward...

so theres no reason to be a warrior of darkness ibh that just sounds so pointless then.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I understand the dangers of helping people too much; this leads to indolence (re: Zofia from Fire Emblem Gaiden / Echoes: Shadows of Valentia) or stagnation.

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Also canon in FFXIV, as the Crystal Tower made life so easy for the Allagans that people started killing themselves out of boredom. And oh, wait a sec, it's finally back in play, so we might find a solid point of reference sooner than we think.

It's fairly typical for the heroes fighting the good fight to be framed as the one thing maintaining balance against an otherwise oppressive darkness, and that's pretty much how FF has played it in games past. "Why fight to live when death is inevitable?" is pretty much the thesis of every game from 3 to 10, and almost always accompanied by a fight against nihilism itself.

I may play Devil's Advocate more than I should, but even then I don't personally think we've ever overstepped the acceptable bounds of "just helping people." And I certainly wouldn't want to stop.


...


And now I'm thinking of Eulmore, and wondering how a system that appears to be sustaining itself through human sacrifice still manages to qualify as "Light." Are they somehow willing sacrifices? Is it some kind of BS like, "if one of you dies, we'll let your family into the upper city," counting on destitute fathers and mothers and brothers who just want to take care of their families stepping forward, conveniently enforcing the complacency of the survivors who can't bear to let that sacrifice go to waste?


Wow, my mind goes dark places. Time to step away from the keyboard...

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Finally saw the trailer. Totally called it, years ago even, not that I can claim any sort of exclusivity on that... Now to just sit tight for two more weeks.


Oh, and I guess there's a Live Letter tomorrow.

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It also got a certain FFIII feel to it, since that game also featured both Warriors of Light and Darkness and a precarious balance to be uphold! I really like that they recycled this idea, paying homage to it in a way. Together with the CT and all that, of course xD

I cannot wait for those two weeks to pass, tbh... not satisfied with everything by a far shot, but at least the story got me exited.

Plot twist; Xandes was the OG Warrior of Darkness. Saw his world was stagnating, realized a Flood of Light was coming, so planned to balance it out with a Flood of Darkness. Caused a Calamity that made both Flood irrelevant anyway. What a legend.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The issue with the "too much Light" angle is that it doesn't really present an alternative. If we have the power to help people, shouldn't we do so?

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I see it more as being aetherial based, rather than now we have to be dicks and not help people for "Darkness". Hypothetically, Ifrit is summoned, the aether used is converted to "Ifrit aether" and cannot reintegrate with the rest of the planet easily/at all. I imagine we do something similar; We beat Ifrit, perhaps we help that aether return to the planet or otherwise just expend aether during the battle, but since we did so using the Blessing of Light, that aether becomes astral aspected... We do that too much, too much aether becomes astral aspected in our wake and causes a Flood of Light.

We're not going to stop helping people, we're just going to harness Darkness in order to put out a different energy when we do help people. Hopefully that will manifest in our behavior/etc. some way, but for now I view it as fueling a car with Light or Dark, and getting Light or Dark exhaust fumes as a result... For balance you want to mix up which you use, but at the end of the day you're still just driving a car.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

And now I'm thinking of Eulmore, and wondering how a system that appears to be sustaining itself through human sacrifice still manages to qualify as "Light." Are they somehow willing sacrifices? Is it some kind of BS like, "if one of you dies, we'll let your family into the upper city," counting on destitute fathers and mothers and brothers who just want to take care of their families stepping forward, conveniently enforcing the complacency of the survivors who can't bear to let that sacrifice go to waste?

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Well, if my hypothesis is correct I imagine common folk have no real impact on balance. They can be upstanding, or complete bastards, but their actions don't aspect the aether in either direction, so things remain the same.

That aside though, from the trailer I didn't get the impression that people are allowed to move into upper Eulmore... Perhaps they're lead to believe they can, but there is one scene with two jester ladies leading someone off? The impression I got was simply that people from the slums are collected to be fed to Sin Eaters. I very much doubt the fat cats in control of Eulmore are incline to share with more by letting anyone else join them.

I'm much more interested in how Eulmore even has a pact with Sin Eaters... Leads me to believe there is some kind of distinction between people, and a reason Sin Eaters would want to sustain themselves on the poor rather than the rich... Can't help but notice Eulmore has a lot more humanoid Sin Eaters, and less of the nightmare fuel ones, I wonder if there's perhaps an evolution they go through... Does make me think their name is a misnomer; Eulmore is full of sin, gluttony being the most visually obvious, yet those aren't the people the Sin Eaters are eating... They're going for the likely hopeful and innocent poor... With Innocence sitting at the top of the Sin Eater hierarchy, that does make me wonder if they should instead be called Virtue Eaters... Innocence ate enough innocent people and became the most powerful Sin Eater, something like that... I can see eating the gluttons of Eulmore leading to more of the monstrous Sin Eater variants, and thus "intelligent" Sin Eaters don't eat such people, instead strike a deal with them...