Stop telling healers to go play dps

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Originally Posted by Limonia

But the ones that deliberately just idle instead of doing something, full knowing that this game is designed differently.

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You put that a lot more succinctly than I did.

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I never played an MMO before this one. The first class I played was Conjurer. I saw I had DPS spells and enemies only removed so much from HP bars. Of course I was very careful at first, but I used DPS spells from the beginning. I think that if FFXIV is your very first MMO or even RPG your even less prone to just healing, because your not used to the heal-only role of some other games.

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Quite interesting, if I may share an anecdote myself, my father, who really never played an MMORPG before this actually used DPS spells too when he started playing healer. It is quite interesting to know the point of view of those that start playing without any pre-conceived notion.

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I have to add that if someone is totally new and doesn't DPS as healer I'm really fine with it, because he must first realize that healing isn't needed all the time. Maybe he doesn't have good gear in his first dungeon and the tank is inexperienced as well, so he HAS to use his heals. But he is able to realize after a while that he would just stand around doing nothing if he only heals in a "normal" party.

And to the first post you made that I quoted, with the "play other games", this is almost all the time only meant for healers from other games that refuse to adapt, not to the new and inexperienced players that are still learning. But the ones that deliberately just idle instead of doing something, full knowing that this game is designed differently.

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This is the opinion that I share. Is ok not to DPS if one doesn't have the skill or confidence to do so, but is unfair not to contribute when one can. Is not even like giving "100% all the time", but if the tank is making an effort to reduce incoming damage, the DPS are doing well and using their support skills, and downtime is generated, and you have the skills and knowledge to dps, I think is atleast respectful to do so. I have tanked tons, and I would never berate a healer that doesn't DPS, as I cannot know what their experience and skill are, even when well geared, but it doesn't mean that I will just be happy and accept a perfectly capable healer not doing more than the bare minimun. Also, how so many people use this excuse to defend the homogenization and removal of healer class' mechanichs, while it wasn't ever a issue of DPSing or not.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

I'm fairly certain I can outplay you in this game if you really want to go there.

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I love it when people claim things like this, because all it takes is a simple Lodestone search to prove that they're talking out of their behind.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I love it when people claim things like this, because all it takes is a simple Lodestone search to prove that they're talking out of their behind.

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Yeah because the lodestone ranks player by their ability to play their job as everybody know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Damn those hardcore gamers and their grand compagny seals, they are so better at this game...

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I love it when people claim things like this, because all it takes is a simple Lodestone search to prove that they're talking out of their behind.

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A certain logs site would be a better bet, at that.

I think he is refering to the achivements, in particular those related to raids, extreme and savage.

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A certain logs site would be a better bet, at that.

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For the most part yes, but it depends if the player in question even make use of that site.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

For the most part yes, but it depends if the player in question even make use of that site.

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The player doesn't have to. If they play anything remotely resembling savage or extreme content, they -will- have logs, unless they've hidden them.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

I think he is refering to the achivements, in particular those related to raids, extreme and savage.

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And still it don't prove anything since anybody can be carried away by better friends or by being average enough. Plus people that are good enough but not interested by raiding content. You only can make assuption that worth nothing out of worthless information.

@videra : Only if they have a parsing buddy/pick-up that upload said parse with him and its not as reccurent as you may think, some parse but don't upload, some other don't bother with parse at all. And you can't guaranty you'll find a parse showing peak performance either if it was a random upload.

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Originally Posted by Videra

The player doesn't have to. If they play anything remotely resembling savage or extreme content, they -will- have logs, unless they've hidden them.

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Not remotely 100%. I play on PS4 and I just checked if I have anyong on FFlogs and it barely has any info on me whatsoever. I have never used it in the past either. I only have one dungeon listed even though I ran dozens over the last few days and barely any stats on my multiple runs of Monastary also. XD Unless you are referring to another log site?

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Originally Posted by disturbedcobra

Not remotely 100%. I play on PS4 and I just checked if I have anyong on FFlogs and it barely has any info on me whatsoever. I have never used it in the past either. I only have one dungeon listed even though I ran dozens over the last few days and barely any stats on my multiple runs of Monastary also. XD Unless you are referring to another log site?

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It is anecdotal, thinking about it. I pretty much always see a new parse pop up every time I do one of the 24 man raids or some such. It's part of the fun, for me - and in regards to peak performance, that's less how I mean. I more mean you can parse how much someone actually cares by looking at their logs, like you can tell if someone is keeping the GCD rolling if they're blue. So on. Sorry, didn't mean to make this about FFlogs.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

I think he is refering to the achivements, in particular those related to raids, extreme and savage.



For the most part yes, but it depends if the player in question even make use of that site.

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Pretty much, just a cursory glance at achievements, mounts, and minions. The person in question hasn't even touched NM Omega from the looks of it. I'm sure they can totally outplay me. :shrug:

Man the expansion really needs to get here

I would venture to say "Just play Dps" are the same people that said 5.0 did not need new healers introduced (so for the most part dps players)

Hot damn the healers shouldn't dps crowd is out tonight! Yes, rub salt into our wounds. You got your way, now move on and stop tap dancing on our dead corpse. Just know that if the healers who like to dps do indeed switch to dps, good luck with this game. Bc all your skilled healers that drag you three buttoned healers through content are gone.

Been playing healing classes in raids over 10 years in various mmorpgs and I don't mind spending more time healing than DPSing because that's how most mmorpgs are.

My issues are two, first the GCDs make for a general slower pace in FFXIV, while dps and tanks have plenty oGCDs to weave and make it more fun, the long GCD is very obvious if you're just healing. Adding the very telegraphed incoming dmg from all sources and the slow auto-attacks from enemies, the better the team the less you have to do while dps and tanks have almost no impact on their faster play-style. Even if the dmg received increases somehow I just can't see it being enough to feel like you're playing fast just healing. Raid healing in other mmorpgs feels like a fast whack-a-mole with HP bars, fast and fun with no time to stop. In FFXIV doing dps in between just felt natural with the slower pace. You have to play with the changes to decide if it's fun enough, so I'll wait and see.

My second and main issue is removing job identity to make it a more streamlined role as a whole, that is what bothers me the most.

WHM was always the basic healer you see in most mmorpgs , nothing fancy, you see dmg you react to it with a heal while keeping a HoT here and there. It seems to be getting just more streamlined in 5.0, it was always straightforward.

AST was a lesser WHM in regards to healing but had a whole side RNG card game with buffs. It loses most of the RNG, becoming simpler. I can understand it, but I almost wish they added deck customization options for something like more cards and better buffs at a cost of more RNG for less good buffs and adjust your deck depending on the content.

And SCH, my main healer since 2.0 :( It was a more complicated healer, shield based healers require you to predict and prevent dmg instead of just reacting after, plus you had the extra micromanagement of a pet. Also SCH's dmg kit was an outlier compared to the other two, and I understand the nerf to a point, they went all the way though. But, removing pet management, was what kinda ruined it for me.
I love micromanaging my pet, removing the 2 summons and the pet bar, making it untargetable, making the pet actions, your actions. It's like a buff now, similar to blood of the dragon, you have it on, opens up skills on your bar, upgrade it to something else for a little, rinse and repeat. What will fly next to my SCH is a minion of what used to be my pet and it saddens me.

I love this game and I really do hope jobs don't become just roles with a small UI flair, WoW did that, I remember reaching a point in WoD with all classes at max lvl that I could play on the fly because how similar they played.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

we are very confused on our role identity. Thanks for reading this vent.

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Your role is healing, what's confusing?
Looking at SCH (which i plan to play MSQ with) the only thing that changed was removal of miasma, bane, shadow flare - everything else is exactly the same, with the addition of new skills that augment what you're already doing.
You heal when necessery
Spam art of war in aoe
Biolysis and broil on single Target.
What's confusing?

WHM lost Aero, and get new atks instead.
Healing improved
What's confusing?

AST card game is simplified
What's confusing?

The point of the changes, was to make it less confusing.
The identity of healer, is to heal, so why do people act as if losing dps skills, hurts healer identity?
Don't get me wrong, it would be nice with more skills, but the second aspect is skill bloat - they remove skills every expansion, to add new ones - healers will lose dps skills in favor of heal/support.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

the second aspect is skill bloat - they remove skills every expansion, to add new ones - healers will lose dps skills in favor of heal/support.

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WHM already has the LEAST amount of skills, it didnt need to lose any.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I would venture to say "Just play Dps" are the same people that said 5.0 did not need new healers introduced (so for the most part dps players)

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I'm seeing more from healers suggesting to other healers that they all boycott the role until it's un-gutted...

You have to see that healers full kit can be divided into 2-3: Healing, DPS and Support. SCH had the most complex DPS aspect of the 3, with a focus on DoTs, Energy Drain and good use of Aetherflow to balance DPS and Healing. While WHM and AST were similar, both still have some unique tricks (WHM assize and Aereo III, AST the Lord card). Now the basic rotations of the three is the same, while WHM being the one having 1-2 uniques dps spells that isn't very optimal to use, as it requires GCD spells to build the resources for it. This means SCH has lost part of what made it unique. Add to this the removal of the buff centric spells on AST, the simplification of their card system, the simplification of the pet system on SCH, its decrease control of their Aetherflow after loosing ED, the fact that lyllies now work in a similar fashion as Aetherflow, and the focus on making all healers heal more, with Yoshi disliking the dichotomy of "shield healers vs Regen healers", meaning the healers jobs will become more similar.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Your role is healing, what's confusing?
Looking at SCH (which i plan to play MSQ with) the only thing that changed was removal of miasma, bane, shadow flare - everything else is exactly the same, with the addition of new skills that augment what you're already doing.
You heal when necessery
Spam art of war in aoe
Biolysis and broil on single Target.
What's confusing?

WHM lost Aero, and get new atks instead.
Healing improved
What's confusing?

AST card game is simplified
What's confusing?

The point of the changes, was to make it less confusing.
The identity of healer, is to heal, so why do people act as if losing dps skills, hurts healer identity?
Don't get me wrong, it would be nice with more skills, but the second aspect is skill bloat - they remove skills every expansion, to add new ones - healers will lose dps skills in favor of heal/support.

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It doesn't help we have content like PoTD which teaches healer nothing then suddenly they have no clue how to play their class in any content beyond it. Old content is worthless these days also because the sheer lack of spells within them until the later levels.

It's like they want the learning curve to come in later into the game all at once, then wonder why so much of their playerbase struggles to play well. Most old content is irrelevant at teaching you any of the games mechanics these days, none of it's threatening.