Is there any reason to play BLM over RDM now days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nezia

BLM is on whole another level when it comes to aoe, I've heard that the only thing that comes even close are monks but I've never played monk myself so I would not know if I should agree or not, but everyone else will be just left behind by miles away.

---

Nice thanks! :P

RDM can raise better than actual healers can, and bring DPS utility as well. They also bring DPS that is decently close to a BLM played optimally, without the risk of a "bad" BLM. IF everyone in your raid are consistently top 10% or so of players...then sure go ahead and bring a BLM. Otherwise just pick RDM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Age_of_Oblivion

Yeah, on dummies. Taking a BLM into a Savage raid crushes their effective dps because there is so much movement required. Maintaining enochian isn't even the problem, it's the sheer amount of time spent moving around. Triple/Swift cast alleviate it somewhat, but it's not enough to mitigate the dps loss from movment entirely. Add into that the complexity of the rotation compared to RDM's ease of use and utility, and it's just.... why bother?

---

I give you three new BLM traits.

Aftermath:
Grants an 8 second DoT tick following the cast of a damage spell.
Cast fire, you get aftermath ember.
Cast ice, you get aftermath frigid.

This gives something to keep the dps up during heavy movement phases.

Path Of The Elements:
Anyone standing within a 5-10 yalm radius of BLM, gets a 10% crit rate and 5% critical damage bonus.

This makes having a blm close by a boon, and someone you want to keep alive. It is an always on effect to boost party members, but they only get that standing close to you, with the punishment being they have to be in turret mode like BLM to get that damage boost.

Wrath of The Sorceror:
Anytime a party member dies, BLM spells cost 10% less & casting speed increased by 5% for 8 seconds.

Giving BLM raise doesn't make sense.
Edited in 3rd trait

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

EDIT[/COLOR]: 3 raises and Im out of MP and cant DPS.

---

I've done more raises than that without running out of mp, and I can get my mp back so easily since my spells are cheap + lucid dreaming, and it means the healers are less likely to run out of mp. Enrage is the only real issue when people are dying a lot, but it is definitely a major issue.

As for Mana Shift, I can use that every time it's off cooldown and have no problems. How the hell are you having mp issues on rdm? Do you not run/use Lucid Dreaming at all? o.O

like aftermath, would need to grant it only when casting fire 1&3/ blizz 1&3, .. but not f4/b4 (make it 9 sec for 3 ticks though), just as an overall slight dps increase and not movement dependent..

as for party buffs, wouldn't mind a magic vun buff, helping a potential "3 caster meta" parallel to the physical/melee meta..
(thunder 3 dots grant a slight magic vun on target)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry, but that's just not true. If that's your only argument, then SMN would have been "the" DPS to have for raids... and it wasn't.

EDIT: And read Claire Pendragon's post.

---

SMN was the DPS to have for raids prior to Final Coil of Bahamut back in 2.x, after the nerf to DRG+3BRDS, anyway, and primarily because "mobility + utility (in the form of 'screw up insurance')." Not sure about 3.x, I never really bothered with Savage then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dregenfox

RDM can raise better than actual healers can, and bring DPS utility as well. They also bring DPS that is decently close to a BLM played optimally, without the risk of a "bad" BLM. IF everyone in your raid are consistently top 10% or so of players...then sure go ahead and bring a BLM. Otherwise just pick RDM.

---

Yep thats an iconic RDM dual casting raise in one round while white mages could only raisse one per round. But they could also raise 2 a person and return them with full health instead of weakness res. RDM could also cast 2 damage spells of 1st or 2nd level per round, while BLM could cast a 4th tier nuke.

BLM never had any healing utility but their damage was much higher and in the end normally would drop RDM for the more powerful
BLM/WHM

if anything, they should boost BLM damage to be higher, and maybe think about giving healers a nicer type of res. I admit its really nifty to have a RDM around, but thats literally what a RDM is Its probably the best adaptation of an iconic job done in this game so far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandpark

Wrath of The Sorceror:
Anytime a party member dies, BLM spells cost 10% less & casting speed increased by 5% for 8 seconds.[/COLOR]

---

This made me giggle because I can imagine a padded run where a BLM has his slaves suicide in order to buff his personal dps xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

This made me giggle because I can imagine a padded run where a BLM has his slaves suicide in order to buff his personal dps xD

---

Do we not do that now?

"Stack up"

"Not my job."

7 people die.

Black mage links meters. "Why you guys so low?"

I'm on o3s right now and I play both rdm and blm and I gotta say I like blm way more. I feel like peopl saying that rdm is better because of mobility have pretty much never taken either of the classes to the raids yet. You can pretty turret for all of the fights so far. The problem with rdm is that maxing your dps means using cac and disengage when you can and a lot do time they will fuck you up so you have to hold them which fucks your dps.

Actually, according to most logs I've seen, BLM's are significantly more dps than RDM's in Omega savage. RDM is a better bet if you don't know the fight, but if you have a grip on where you can plant for awhile, BLM creeps ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

This made me giggle because I can imagine a padded run where a BLM has his slaves suicide in order to buff his personal dps xD

---

It would meet my idea of the iconic Black Mage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsHoqhbUIU

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbot

I'm on o3s right now and I play both rdm and blm and I gotta say I like blm way more. I feel like peopl saying that rdm is better because of mobility have pretty much never taken either of the classes to the raids yet. You can pretty turret for all of the fights so far. The problem with rdm is that maxing your dps means using cac and disengage when you can and a lot do time they will fuck you up so you have to hold them which fucks your dps.

---

Idd, yet to try O3s but I have to say that neither prior bosses felt that crushing even on learning, I'll even say that while some ppl consider O1s the turret fight I honestly think O2s is the true turret fight of this tier

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Idd, yet to try O3s but I have to say that neither prior bosses felt that crushing even on learning, I'll even say that while some ppl consider O1s the turret fight I honestly think O2s is the true turret fight of this tier

---

Yeah I agree with that. You can pretty much turret for the whole fight and on first probes you can just drop leylines in the middle and port back after dodging the aoe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chocolate_Rain

Actually, according to most logs I've seen, BLM's are significantly more dps than RDM's in Omega savage. RDM is a better bet if you don't know the fight, but if you have a grip on where you can plant for awhile, BLM creeps ahead.

---

the majority of rdm can do better in any omega with ease (also when not focused), ... fewer blm get higher parse, with more effort or (proc) luck..

+ rdm can rez better than healers
+ rdm buffs raid dps with embolden (which is the final slap to the face of blm, since it only buffs physical dps and only the users magical dps..., dunno wtf Yoshi was thinking when he allowed that buff)

as it stands now, blm (and smn), have harder times getting in pfs...

some even preferred smn over blm, cause if ifrit (physical slight buff) and devotion..., besides the emergency rez (even if it doesn't quite compare to rdm's rez)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

the majority of rdm can do better in any omega with ease (also when not focused), ... fewer blm get higher parse, with more effort or (proc) luck..

+ rdm can rez better than healers
+ rdm buffs raid dps with embolden (which is the final slap to the face of blm, since it only buffs physical dps and only the users magical dps..., dunno wtf Yoshi was thinking when he allowed that buff)

as it stands now, blm (and smn), have harder times getting in pfs...

some even preferred smn over blm, cause if ifrit (physical slight buff) and devotion..., besides the emergency rez (even if it doesn't quite compare to rdm's rez)

---

Average BLM parses 200-300 dps higher than RDM on all fights so your comment makes no sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

the majority of rdm can do better in any omega with ease (also when not focused), ... fewer blm get higher parse, with more effort or (proc) luck..

+ rdm can rez better than healers
+ rdm buffs raid dps with embolden (which is the final slap to the face of blm, since it only buffs physical dps and only the users magical dps..., dunno wtf Yoshi was thinking when he allowed that buff)

as it stands now, blm (and smn), have harder times getting in pfs...

some even preferred smn over blm, cause if ifrit (physical slight buff) and devotion..., besides the emergency rez (even if it doesn't quite compare to rdm's rez)

---

Have you even checked the most recent fflogs, y'know since they fixed the RDM mana bug and buffed BLM? Doesn't seem like you have. And nobody brings SMN over either that's absolute tripe since SMN has actual issues making their class undesirable.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17/#dataset=95

BLM is claming no2 DPS spot below Samurai. However this is only because meta is currently pretty heavy toward bringing classes that buff samurai. In term of solo DPS i think both class are on par now.

RDM is sharing same spot with SMN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelvinK

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17/#dataset=95

BLM is claming no2 DPS spot below Samurai. However this is only because meta is currently pretty heavy toward bringing classes that buff samurai. In term of solo DPS i think both class are on par now.

RDM is sharing same spot with SMN

---

Yeah, can't wait to try out a double caster, 1 melee and 1 ranged physical group. SMN buffing magic damage with Contagion, NIN being the best melee to buff casters (I think) and BRD for the crit buff or MCH with Hypercharge (not sure which would net casters more damage). Eitherway, it sounds very tempting to try!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ciderfox

Average BLM parses 200-300 dps higher than RDM on all fights so your comment makes no sense.

---

2-300 is not enough to create a static time difference to account the loss of a safety net.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ciderfox

Average BLM parses 200-300 dps higher than RDM on all fights so your comment makes no sense.

---

those are the top few blm with extra effort and sometimes good procs.., not the majority of blm in pfs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelvinK

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17/#dataset=95

However this is only because meta is currently pretty heavy toward bringing classes that buff samurai.

---

with a rdm in that meta..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

those are the top few blm with extra effort and sometimes good procs.., not the majority of blm in pfs

---

The 50th percentile of logs has BLM higher than RDM. And who cares about party finders, just because people can't play their class right doesn't mean there is a problem. Yoshi p balances around savage, he said himself.

He balances around content that only 1% of the playerbase bothers with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

He balances around content that only 1% of the playerbase bothers with?

---

Can't say for sure but because that 1% (lowballing a bit?) Has a trickle down effect to everyone else (See DPS meta with tanks and healers) i could see the logic in doing so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

He balances around content that only 1% of the playerbase bothers with?

---

Why should he balance around casual content where it literally doesn't matter what class or comp you bring?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelvinK

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17/#dataset=95

BLM is claming no2 DPS spot below Samurai. However this is only because meta is currently pretty heavy toward bringing classes that buff samurai. In term of solo DPS i think both class are on par now.

RDM is sharing same spot with SMN

---

I don't get why ppl say that SMN are trash when they are middle with DRG/RDM maybe it's just me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbot

Why should he balance around casual content where it literally doesn't matter what class or comp you bring?

---

should be balanced for both, the more casual and the more hardcore players, otherwise blm (& smn) still have harder times getting in pfs or statics..., rdm is till overall OP.., and both blm and smn still have broken parts on them..

but at least "speed kill" pfs, might consider taking a blm over a rdm (where as for "1st clears" clearly rdm over blm, for its rez and safe dps when learning the fight)...

... but even for "speed kills", some might still take a rdm over blm for its "embolden" (the blm/smn slap in the face, for not buffing other casters)..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

I don't get why ppl say that SMN are trash when they are middle with DRG/RDM maybe it's just me

---

It's not about SMN damage, as the dps is fine. It's the fact that most SMN mains just don't find it fun, as SE hasn't figured out what they want it to do/be. DoT class? Not when you only have 2 DoTs. Pet Class? Hard to justify when the pet AI is so poor (ie unresponsive) and they trimmed the only pet heal away. Bye Sustain!

TL:DR: It's not about SMNs damage that has people upset. It's SMNs lack of any fluidity or identity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

-snip-

---

I really don't agree with this. I'll preface this by saying that I believed the same thing about RDM being far superior BEFORE I actually went and did the raids. Now I would bring my BLM most of the times. I can pretty much turret for the entirety of O2 and O1 and Triple Cast lines up perfectly with The Classical Elements which is pretty much the only time you ever need to move on O1. O3 also has plenty of time to cast and I actually find it much safer to dps on BLM actually because Corp-a-corp and disengage are required to optimize your RDM dps but they fuck your positioning and are kind of awkward to use on a fight where positioning has to be really tight. Embolden also is extremely overrated. It only affects physical dps and it's not even really comparable to BLit, let alone Trick Attack. The 'rez' thing is nice at first...until you realize that if you are at a point where multiple people are dying than it's probably a wipe.

Also, balancing for the top makes much more sense than the other way around. For one, there's a trickle effect. And secondly...why would you balance for people who barely understand how to play their class, let alone game balance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuneSevalle

It's not about SMN damage, as the dps is fine. It's the fact that most SMN mains just don't find it fun, as SE hasn't figured out what they want it to do/be. DoT class? Not when you only have 2 DoTs. Pet Class? Hard to justify when the pet AI is so poor (ie unresponsive) and they trimmed the only pet heal away. Bye Sustain!

TL:DR: It's not about SMNs damage that has people upset. It's SMNs lack of any fluidity or identity.

---

It's SE faults? I think most Summoners players don't know what they want imho

edit: don't want to start a flame war just saying that most of the times you see SMNs players having conflicted visions on how the class should play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

snip

---

Enough is enough man, we get it, you don't like RDM so you'll come up with whatever excuse you can to say they're OP. Just because you can play the victim doesn't mean you're right. The evidence is all there, RDM does not put up as much damage as BLM and loses a stark amount of relevance after fight mechanics become common knowledge. And stop arguing about Embolden, it's barely a .75% rDPS increase in a standard comp, and realistically is closer to .5%. And you don't balance off of casual players since usually they don't get invested enough to optimize for normal content, which is fine since you don't need to. And no, we can't raise "better" than healers, only more often, and the more often we do it, the more we get shafted in the DPS department.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

And no, we can't raise "better" than healers, only more often, and the more often we do it, the more we get shafted in the DPS department.

---

More often and faster IS better than healers. Otherwise, RDM is mostly fine. I doubt they even really need number adjustments, it's just that rez safety buffer has the other casters feeling shafted. Doesn't stop us stubborn BLMs though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuneSevalle

More often and faster IS better than healers. Otherwise, RDM is mostly fine. I doubt they even really need number adjustments, it's just that rez safety buffer has the other casters feeling shafted. Doesn't stop us stubborn BLMs though.

---

It's not that good. You're already in dire waters if people are dying that much and you need RDM's rezes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuneSevalle

More often and faster IS better than healers. Otherwise, RDM is mostly fine. I doubt they even really need number adjustments, it's just that rez safety buffer has the other casters feeling shafted. Doesn't stop us stubborn BLMs though.

---

Yeah sure, let's give everyone the rez safety, you'll enjoy being the safety buffer as BLM I guarantee it. You want to use Fire IV? Nope too bad, get to rezzing. What about Foul? Doesn't matter get to rezzing. If you like BLM don't ask for that rez safety and don't ask for nerfs to RDMs, you benefit from it just as much as anyone else. Your argument is boiling down to "If nobody else can have it they shouldn't get it either."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Yeah sure, let's give everyone the rez safety, you'll enjoy being the safety buffer as BLM I guarantee it. You want to use Fire IV? Nope too bad, get to rezzing. What about Foul? Doesn't matter get to rezzing. If you like BLM don't ask for that rez safety and don't ask for nerfs to RDMs, you benefit from it just as much as anyone else. Your argument is boiling down to "If nobody else can have it they shouldn't get it either."

---

To say nothing of how much people lose their feces when someone dies mid melee combo. You can wait till I finish my verfinisher or you can stay down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

To say nothing of how much people lose their feces when someone dies mid melee combo. You can wait till I finish my verfinisher or you can stay down.

---

Honestly i'm starting to approach it the same way as I do when healing, "Oh you stood in something? Looks like you get to sit on the floor and think about what you did."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Honestly i'm starting to approach it the same way as I do when healing, "Oh you stood in something? Looks like you get to sit on the floor and think about what you did."

---

I'm getting to the same point. My patience really only gets tested when they whine and I'm mid melee combo. That's not just one spell of dps at that point that's basically my whole burst.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Yeah sure, let's give everyone the rez safety, you'll enjoy being the safety buffer as BLM I guarantee it. You want to use Fire IV? Nope too bad, get to rezzing. What about Foul? Doesn't matter get to rezzing. If you like BLM don't ask for that rez safety and don't ask for nerfs to RDMs, you benefit from it just as much as anyone else. Your argument is boiling down to "If nobody else can have it they shouldn't get it either."

---

Nowhere did I say BLM should have rez. At all. FFS, I didn't even have an argument. I only took issue with you denying that Verraise is better than the healers. Lightspeed is the only comparable method to come close to RDM in that sense.
Since you bring it up though, RDM is objectively the least impacted by having to throw out a rez, assuming you're not stopping mid-melee to do so. It's a well-designed job. Possibly far better designed than the other two, one of which needs a massive overhaul, and one which needs a couple small tweaks. Hence, your example is ridiculous.