Lupin - make it a playable race!

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Same thing can be said about the Viera thread. When people try to Discuss about why they don't want it they are wrong in doing so.
So why is it OK to want something but not OK to want something else? That's all I'm trying to say.
Let people want what they want.

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My guess is because they fear developers will see the threads and decide to actually give us new stuff that they don't like.

Dear gosh, no thank you.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Same thing can be said about the Viera thread. When people try to Discuss about why they don't want it they are wrong in doing so.

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I sure did not tell anyone not to discuss anything in this forum. It's not my place to do so. Nor is it yours.

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So why is it OK to want something but not OK to want something else? That's all I'm trying to say.

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You're saying that to the wrong person. For all I care, go to the Viera thread and do your worst. It won't change the fact that Viera are without a doubt a better balance between investment and returns/marketing for SE, whether you or me like them or not.

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Let people want what they want.

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You're entitled to want want whatever you like, as much as I am entitled to tell you why It most probably won't happen, and why it shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Snippy snap

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Quite frankly your reasons for why it shouldn't are bull crap. You try to defend this game's lore like it's a baby and honestly the lore is spotty at best. As others have said there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't happen even from a story stand point and I stand by that till the end. As others have stated and I was going to bring up a brand new Au'ra that no one has ever seen before and no one bats a damn eye? I for one am sick of these races.

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Originally Posted by Jade_Gryphon

Now...don't get me wrong. I love being a femroe. I actually changed out of mi'qote to become a femroe. But honestly? I would fantasia myself in an INSTANT to play as a Ronso.

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I had to google image search Ronso but... yes! That would be amazing.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's not about pleasing (well, I would be pleased for Lupin to be playable), but making sense. I'm not 100% sure, as I have never played as an Au Ra, but I have a feeling that not one NPC comments about what you are, despite being the only Au Ra to appear in Eorzea, with demonic looking horns and a reptilian-looking tail.

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You're correct. I've quested through the MSQ as Au Ra a few times and on one bats an eye - or even makes a neutral comment. It's especially hilarious when you get to the Yugiri stuff and she's hiding her identity. That kind of thing doesn't bug me overmuch, though, as I think there are certain times when lore needs to step back from gameplay mechanics - not that I would have objected to Au Ra being introduced organically as a playable race.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Yet the last races added to WoW were werewolf, goblin and a big panda. You know why? Because they realized that the "pretty/human" base was already over-served. As a game dev myself, I would consider it a waste of resources to invest more in an already over-served segment of the player base. Attracting players that have not been catered to would be a way more wise investment of my time and resources.

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Agreed 100%.

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Originally Posted by KazumaFaemura

Quite frankly your reasons for why it shouldn't are bull crap. You try to defend this game's lore like it's a baby and honestly the lore is spotty at best. As others have said there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't happen even from a story stand point and I stand by that till the end. As others have stated and I was going to bring up a brand new Au'ra that no one has ever seen before and no one bats a damn eye? I for one am sick of these races.

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I thought you were done with me because *insert random insult here* Make up your own mind, will you?

You keep bringing up the Au Ra, ignoring the fact that the Au Ra aren't beastmen. There's absolutely nothing anywhere in the game's dialogue that conflicts with au ra being warriors of light and members of the scions. There are plenty of reasons. The fact that you don't want to accept it because you're so in love with the idea of playing a furry race that you get really heated if someone argues against it, is pretty much inconsequential.

You're also confusing the "lore" with the existing game dialogue. It's not just the lore that paints beastmen as something intrinsically extraneous to the warrior of light and the scions. It's the game's own script.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Yet the last races added to WoW were werewolf, goblin and a big panda. You know why? Because they realized that the "pretty/human" base was already over-served. As a game dev myself, I would consider it a waste of resources to invest more in an already over-served segment of the player base. Attracting players that have not been catered to would be a way more wise investment of my time and resources. However, it also has to be a skeleton that can easily get gear migration from other races and wear helmets with little or no modification.

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As "a game dev yourself" (unproven, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt), you should probably realize that WoW is in an entirely different situation with its audience and resources. They have a much larger active crowd, which makes catering to smaller niches still profitable, and a lot more inertia and critical mass which means that they don't need as many marketing crutches to stay afloat. A minority of the WoW playerbase is a hell of a lot bigger than a minority of the FFXIV playerbase.

On top of that, WOW encourages alts, which means that each players will create more characters, making a higher degree of variety more beneficial. On the other hand, Final Fantasy XIV's game system are the exact opposite, actively discouraging the creation of alts, causing more to stick to vanilla/cool/handsome/cute/sexy characters, as it's their only in-game alter-ego.

If you think that a completely unknown wolf race would have a bigger or even remotely comparable promotional effect than one of Final Fantasy's most iconic races, which on top of that is about to be brought back under the spotlight by a remaster, I certainly hope for your sake that you're sticking to development and not handling the marketing of whatever game you're working on.

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I would say that knife cuts both ways. Few people posting against it over and over on this kind of thread are not a real opposition either.

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Interesting moot point responding to nothing, considering that no one argued that the masses are against it.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're entitled to want want whatever you like, as much as I am entitled to tell you why It most probably won't happen, and why it shouldn't.

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We all know why it probably won't happen. We don't care. We still want it.

Whether or not SE takes up for what people desire is up to them. Not you.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

More duff

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Gonna be real with you. People are more likely getting heated with you not because you argue against something they want but its because you have this clear undying desire to constantly chime in to stay relevant after already saying your piece 30 times. We heard you the first time.

It really looks like you are trying to fill this thread with repeated "it cant happen" statements to bloat your argument numbers. Disagreeing is fine but do you really need to repeat your act to every person who says they want Lupins as a race? Its not a war effort you know.

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Originally Posted by Rysir

Gonna be real with you. People are more likely getting heated with you not because you argue against something they want but its because you have this clear undying desire to constantly chime in to stay relevant after already saying your piece 30 times. We heard you the first time.

It really looks like you are trying to fill this thread with repeated "it cant happen" statements to bloat your argument numbers. Disagreeing is fine but do you really need to repeat your act to every person who says they want Lupins as a race? Its not a war effort you know.

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Nope. It's a discussion. A discussion is by definition made of back and forth.

I'm sure you'd find it very convenient if everyone who thinks this won't or shouldn't happen just came, said their piece, and then permanently left, leaving those in support of the idea to circlepat their shoulders over and over with no opposition. But you're not doing it, so why should I or anyone else? We heard you the first time as well. Yet you're still here.

If people get heated, it's their issue, mind you. It only exposes the weakness of their arguments.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

We all know why it probably won't happen. We don't care. We still want it.

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Good for you, as long as you're good at dealing with disappointment. Considering how some get angry when someone dares to discuss against their ideas for a new race, I can only imagine how they'll react if SE announces something else (or nothing at all), as it most probably will happen.

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Whether or not SE takes up for what people desire is up to them. Not you.

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"people" is a big word. The content of this thread is hardly the expression of "what people desire." It's expresses what a few individuals desire.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You really like your TLDRs

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I'm not stating that they are a beast tribe and that's not the point I'm attempting to get across. I'm just saying within the confines of the game as we know now, the Au'Ra are from Doma and across the Ruby Sea, yet ours just starts as any other race. It clashes with the game as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

"people" is a big word. The content of this thread is hardly the expression of "what people desire." It's expresses what a few individuals desire.

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Good thing that's not up to you to decide.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

even more duff

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Actually I provided my piece that Id like this race to happen and even said previously that Im hopeful but not expecting it and left it at that. I have not repeated my statements unlike you which your tired old gig even drags into the viera thread.

Also I stick around this thread because I hold interest in the topic and would enjoy if lupins became a player race and thus would like to see what others think so I should leave why? You just stick around just to keep telling people it cant happen. Youre probably the most stale piece of Balmungian bread on the forum.

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Originally Posted by KazumaFaemura

I'm not stating that they are a beast tribe and that's not the point I'm attempting to get across. I'm just saying within the confines of the game as we know now, the Au'Ra are from Doma and across the Ruby Sea, yet ours just starts as any other race. It clashes with the game as a whole.

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Only it does not. Simply because there is no part in the current dialogue that clashes with the idea of a Doman or a Au Ra to be the warrior of light. The world isn't a series of airtight compartments. People travel and the fact that Domans and Au Ra simply did not appear in the game before their implementation doesn't mean that they didn't exist in Eorzea. They simply weren't depicted. Just like half-breeds always existed and exist in Eorzea even before Hylda was implemented.

On the other hand, the existing dialogue of the game makes a point to indicate beast tribes as something alien and extraneous to the warrior of light and his companions basically all the way through the story of 1.0 to 4.0. That story doesn't go away (1.X aside), and is still fully playable.

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Originally Posted by Rysir

Also I stick around this thread because I hold interest in the topic and would enjoy if lupins became a player race and thus would like to see what others think so I should leave why? You just stick around just to keep telling people it cant happen. Youre probably the most stale piece of Balmungian bread on the forum.

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Oh, how cute, a little random personal attack. I stick around because I'm interested in the discussion. I'm interested in the long-term success of this game, and I believe that the implementation of the lupin over potentially much more popular races would be detrimental to that. The implementation of a new race is a big deal visibility and promotion-wise, and I'm definitely interested in seeing that exploited as best as possible, because that means a game that I'll enjoy longer, with more resources and by consequence more content for me and everyone else.

As you have your interests, I have mine, and I'll argue my points as much as I deem necessary, with or without your permission.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

Good thing that's not up to you to decide.

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Nope. It's not up to me to decide. The fact that this thread represents just the desire of individuals and not "the people" is simply a fact.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Oh, how cute, a little random personal attack. I stick around because I'm interested in the discussion, and I'm interested in the long-term success of this game, and I believe that the implementation of the lupin over potentially much more popular race would be detrimental to that. As you have your interest, I have mine, and I'll argue my point as much as I deem necessary.

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Being called stale bread named after your server is a personal attack? Im almost positive you are just acting up to get the thread locked now. You must be fun at parties.

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Originally Posted by Rysir

Being called stale bread named after your server is a personal attack? Im almost positive you are just acting up to get the thread locked now. You must be fun at parties.

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Sounds like they are scared that the devs would make the Lupin playable instead of the waifu Elzen with bunny ears stabled on their head tbh.

I would prefer Ronzo over Lupin, much more my type.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snowbear

Sounds like they are scared that the devs would make the Lupin playable instead of the waifu Elzen with bunny ears stabled on their head tbh.

I would prefer Ronzo over Lupin, much more my type.

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I'd take Ronso if they gave us Ronso.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

you should probably realize that WoW is in an entirely different situation with its audience and resources. They have a much larger active crowd, which makes catering to smaller niches still profitable, and a lot more inertia and critical mass which means that they don't need as many marketing crutches to stay afloat. A minority of the WoW playerbase is a hell of a lot bigger than a minority of the FFXIV playerbase.

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You love double standards, I see. You brought up saying that WoW has similar stats (I would love to see them, last time I played, Horde and Alliance were quite evenly split, and blood elves were nowhere near the plurality of the Horde.) You brought up WoW as one of your validation points, you cant now dismiss it without dismissing your inclusion of it in your counter point.

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Originally Posted by Rysir

Being called stale bread named after your server is a personal attack? Im almost positive you are just acting up to get the thread locked now. You must be fun at parties.

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Differently from you, I don't go around calling people names, so if there's someone who would be contributing to have the thread locked, that'd be you.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

You love double standards, I see. You brought up saying that WoW has similar stats (I would love to see them, last time I played, Horde and Alliance were quite evenly split, and blood elves were nowhere near the plurality of the Horde.) You brought up WoW as one of your validation points, you cant now dismiss it without dismissing your inclusion of it in your counter point.

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WoW's stats certainly show that the less a race looks human, the less popular it is. You brought that comparison to an improper territory, which is a commercial/marketing discourse. That doesn't apply due to the massively different commercial situation between the two games. As a "game dev yourself" you should know that without me telling you.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snowbear

Sounds like they are scared that the devs would make the Lupin playable instead of the waifu Elzen with bunny ears stabled on their head tbh.

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I certainly would like to see the potentially most popular race implemented, simply because it's good for the game as a whole (more subs -> more money -> more content for everyone, for a longer time). And that race certainly isn't furry humanoid with a dog face, or any animal face, really. I don't even care for viera. Not a single bit. But it's not hard to recognize that it'd be good for promoting FFXIV. As for being "scared," as much as you try to imply that to attempt (and fail) to discredit a position you have no arguments to counter, that's hardly the case. Can't be scared of something that has nearly zero chances to happen.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

I'd take Ronso if they gave us Ronso.

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I'll Fantasia all of my Roes into Ronso! I only have Roes. :P

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snowbear

Sounds like they are scared that the devs would make the Lupin playable instead of the waifu Elzen with bunny ears stabled on their head tbh.

I would prefer Ronzo over Lupin, much more my type.

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Id be down with Ronso if Lupin is a no go honestly. And if the smile is like that prize winner scene in 10 then thats just bonus ducks

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Originally Posted by Abriael

On top of that, WOW encourages alts, which means that each players will create more characters, making a higher degree of variety more beneficial. On the other hand, Final Fantasy XIV's game system are the exact opposite, actively discouraging the creation of alts, causing more to stick to vanilla/cool/handsome/cute/sexy characters, as it's their only in-game alter-ego.

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And you cant see how this means that people that already have their sexy characters wont care about any new race one way or another?

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If you think that a completely unknown wolf race would have a bigger or even remotely comparable promotional effect than one of Final Fantasy's most iconic races, which on top of that is about to be brought back under the spotlight by a remaster, I certainly hope for your sake that you're sticking to development and not handling the marketing of whatever game you're working on.

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Of all the races in this game we can play as, only humans and elfs are "iconic FF races." There is nothing wrong with the game being original in introducing new races for players. That said: I don't expect the wolf race to ever even be viable. If you had read my post non-defensively, you would had noticed I explicitly gave reasons why it cant be. To make it clear: no race with prolonged snouts is likely to ever be viable because helmets would not fit, and although adding side horns is possible, modifying the front of a closed helmet to accommodate for them is not a worthwhile task. It's possible, but too much work for them to consider it a low hanging fruit.

A ronso-like race, on the other hand, would be perfect.



Interesting moot point responding to nothing, considering that no one argued that the masses are against it.

I don't usually use the forums but im just gonna drop in and say I would play something like this if it were an option. For those saying we only want moe races like miqcats and au ra these are the closest options to choose for being a beastly character.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

And you cant see how this means that people that already have their sexy characters wont care about any new race one way or another?

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Fantasias exist. And there is a *large* percentage of the overall final fantasy playerbase that can still be attracted to this game by implementing an iconic race from the series. This game's popularity is strongly based on the power of fanservice.

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Of all the races in this game we can play as, only humans and elfs are "iconic FF races."

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Which is exactly why implementing viera would have even more marketing impact.

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That said: I don't expect the wolf race to ever even be viable. If you had read my post non-defensively, you would had noticed I explicitly gave reasons why it cant be. To make it clear: no race with prolonged snouts is likely to ever be viable because helmets would not fit, and although adding side horns is possible, modifying the front of a closed helmet to accommodate for them is not a worthwhile task. It's possible, but too much work for them to consider it a low hanging fruit.

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Which is an argument I made before in this thread. And that's exactly the point. With a game at this stage of maturity, low hanging fruits are exactly what SE will most probably go for, if they even consider adding a new race, which is not a given.

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A ronso-like race, on the other hand, would be perfect.

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Still way too niche to be considered a low-hanging fruit. Not to mention that the lack of prolonged snout isn't the only factor.

Could they do Viera, sure. Iconic? Hardly. It was featured strongly only in the lest popular numbered game in the series, but already noticed how double standards are applied in this argument. Forcing any race from another game into this game is as invalid as asking for a brand new one, either way, they would make zero lore sense without retconing them into the universe. Anyone that actually cared for lore of the game, would seek among existing beast tribes.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Simply because there is no part in the current dialogue that clashes with the idea of a Doman or a Au Ra to be the warrior of light.

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Go play through the Yugiri MSQ stuff in ARR as an Au Ra, and then try and tell me that the MSQ doesn't "clash" with an Au Ra being a warrior of light.

"Oh no, I must hide my identity because my appearance could make people afraid," says the Au Ra to the Au Ra.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Go play through the Yugiri MSQ stuff in ARR as an Au Ra, and then try and tell me that the MSQ doesn't "clash" with an Au Ra being a warrior of light.

"Oh no, I must hide my identity because my appearance could make people afraid," says the Au Ra to the Au Ra.

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It worked back in ARR when there were no Au Ras, but now...
I kinda wish they removed that part from the MSQ and replaced it since that doesn't make sense now.

i really hope they don't.

The models look plastic and ugly.

I wouldn't mind a Lupin race after a little more refinement.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Could they do Viera, sure. Iconic? Hardly. It was featured strongly only in the lest popular numbered game in the series, but already noticed how double standards are applied in this argument. Forcing any race from another game into this game is as invalid as asking for a brand new one, either way, they would make zero lore sense without retconing them into the universe. Anyone that actually cared for lore of the game, would seek among existing beast tribes.

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Especially a beast tribe that has the utmost loyalty to a foreign country and has served the throne for decades. There's literally nothing for the other races to fear from them, they only hold in reverence the royal family of Doma.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I wouldn't mind a Lupin race after a little more refinement.

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I think this is the biggest thing. Lupin seems to have been added into Stormblood once they realized that development of them as Au Ra would not be a thing. We all know why they are unlikely or were previously halted. I think Lupin would require more refinement to truly be added. If so though, I'd be fantasia'ing right away.

First, the lupin are surprising large...

Second, it would appear that they are the most cultured and social of the beast races working in cooperation with primarily doman society so it wouldn't actually be that surprising if they were made a playable race, although it would require a tuning of most helmets.

Lastly there wasn't a lot of need to provide customizaion for them yet, much like Yugiri's masked model, since they aren't playable.

My goodness, didn't expect this little thread to become such a heated debate, and this is only my third post!

Me personally? I don't think I'd use a lupin. But I suggested it (asked really) if anyone else would like to see this as a race because I love seeing racial diversity in a fantasy-style RPG, especially an MMO.

Why is it bad to have wolf-people, but okay to have voidsent-like humanoids and cat-girls/boys? Furthermore, I'd class lupin as no more a beast-tribe than other domans, they seem to be able to fully integrate said culture - on another side, I remember a quest in which an ala mhigan refugee in ARR wanted to summon rhalgr with the aid of the ascians. And need I remind you of what happened at the end of baelsar's wall? (does that make us a beast tribe? that we too can summon primals?).

Shhhhh, just let us love the wolf people. No need for all this hate.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...017_093808.png

Dibs on the name Robb Stark.

I wouldn't mind seeing the race playable if a facial option gave you a better muzzle than that. Its almost... fox like, rather than wolf like.

That said, I think for the ease of the story and such, I would much prefer it if you could get an item to transform you into a Beastman indefinitely, by reaching the highest rep with beast tribe quests.

Yesssss, do it!

After getting to see them in game, please make it happen!

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Originally Posted by Purplenum

I think that Lalafell, Au Ra (more like Augly Ra amirite?) and Miqote should be removed from the game.

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So you want XIV shut down from bankruptcy. Ultimatum much?

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Originally Posted by Nandalowell

Shhhhh, just let us love the wolf people. No need for all this hate.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...017_093808.png

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Uh...

http://i.imgur.com/7ZqJgVQ.png

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Uh...

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Guess the ones in Doma are starved.
But yeeh, a lala could fit insode those boots.