Scholars what are your thoughts?

Did a few Susano EX @ i292 last night. No MP issues. SCH felt pretty strong. Fey Union is situational but worked pretty good in that fight.
Was able to coordinate Exco with my co healer but it really does need to proc after 30s guaranteed there is no other option to make it a good skill.

It does feel weaker in dungeons because adds now hit like a truck over lvl 60 but in raids/EX it feels the same other than weaving outside of Ruin II in a pinch.

I'm only a lvl 63 ACN but I completely hate their lvl 62 skill, Excogitation (sp?). I am so far only seeing use for it in tank busters but even then I already have Adlo for that. Whats everyone's opinions of that move? Maybe I'm using it wrong?

Does the job get funner later lvls or is it blander ?

With Alphinaud able to summon a defensive Carbuncle later in SB that actually offers a decent buff for the warrior of light, what if this became the third summon option for Scholar at some point in the future?

Not only would this be a good challenge to certain AST cards, it would definitely give Scholar's a little MP respite from popping Galvanize. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Did a few Susano EX @ i292 last night. No MP issues. SCH felt pretty strong. Fey Union is situational but worked pretty good in that fight.
Was able to coordinate Exco with my co healer but it really does need to proc after 30s guaranteed there is no other option to make it a good skill.

It does feel weaker in dungeons because adds now hit like a truck over lvl 60 but in raids/EX it feels the same other than weaving outside of Ruin II in a pinch.

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Definitely agree with this. Running the ex primals honestly it doesn't feel ruined or anything. Excog I found to be useful there for pre application before the tank busters. I haven't had mp issues unless a lot of people die. I don't like the fairy tether still. That is the main thing I'd like to see adjusted.

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Originally Posted by VallariaEllethwen

-Revert the changes to Adloquium Mp cost increase or increase it's potency

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I don't understand how they could think it was ok to up the mp cost for a spell that is the core of our kit. I found myself running out of mana trying to keep Adlo on my tank so that I can dps. It makes no sense to me, isn't my job to shield my tank? Makes no sense

My thoughts are that I've switched to WHM. And I don't think I'll go back even if they increase potencies to OP levels. The gameplay change makes the job so dull it's literally mind-numbing.

I could be wrong, but, basically all SCH really got this expansion was a reduction to its current skills in terms of nerfs or removal and all we gained was an okay raid utility in the form of Chain Strategem...

I'm ok with an expansion not giving us a bunch of 100% use skills but it just seems like we have plenty of stuff that already achieves what most of the new abilities do and at less cost.

excog- (I love the name of this ability BTW) is a less consistent Lustrate with no additional payoff.

Aetherpact/fey union- I haven't tried this yet but from the what I've heard i'm just as well off using Rouse essentially.

Broil II - to be honest I think this could've been a good ability but It should've filled in as an AOE damage ability considering how much of that we lost I think that would've helped a great deal.

all in all it just seems like a general nerf to SCH and then they threw in some SMN ability upgrades (in the form of Aetherpact and an upgrade single target burst).

Healing Primal Ex, while geared now, and materia. I don't have too much stress on Mana regen as long as everyone is doing what they should be doing. But when I do run dungeons and I used to feel comfortable with a WAR - like they were my tank bros. But now it feels stressed if theres a lot of monsters. IF i run out of Aetherflows, I know that I have to pop fairy. Because Adlo takes too long to cast and MP eats away so I have to spam psyhic. But it shouldnt be like that. I shouldnt feel tense when I'm in a dungeon. I'm geared. I should feel comfortable but I know I can't count on Fey Union. I can't count on Exo. I cant really count on most of the 60+ Abilities. I just really rely on Lustrate and Psychic. Rip. But I'll still play SCH. haha

Just I hope you get what I mean.

SCH just feels vastly outmatched.

Edit:

And what really bothers me is when I was leveling up SCH, I didn't feel that tension. I was good with my heals but at 70. It just hits you and you're just like oh shit this is what they meant. So you get geared and you try to justify it but, yeah, by 70 you just know its not the way it should be.

I healed The Royal Menagerie yesterday as a scholar and the other healer was also a scholar. What a nightmare as people are still learning the mechanics! They should have the shields stack like Medica II!!! Two scholars in a group are useless at the moment!

i am going to main Bard with astro alt. I just tired PVP HAHAHAHAHAH ;I did not even get a fairy! Gimp us some more why don't ya ? This is nuts . With everyone playing DPS you would think they want more healers. I would have cont playing my sch. but now you lost another healer . WTG

Dude Pick astro .

the 5 new roles essentially gutted out eye for an eye and gave you the choice of the divine seal thingy. problem is it doesnt really touch our abilities of our toolkit where we do other heals from, just the spells from what im told. also told wars defiance is defined as healing magic so the ability heals dont get the bonus like the other two jobs would. just feels very unbalanced as a toolkit in general to have these things not be synergized with each other. sch is 70 but leveling ast from 60 as we speak. ive played sch since 2.0 and it literally made me a better player, made me get better. i just cant stand how the job feels now compared to before but the dots i could get over. having to use a role on eye for an eye? ridiculous. its like they just didnt care or they couldnt think harder to seperate making smn changes without affecting us, so we are the afterthought

Please stop saying Scholar is strong in 4.0 when it's not. It literally got nothing but nerfs and made weaker than it was at the end of Heavensward and is now a fraction of what it was. Those saying they love Scholar currently at seventy are oblivious to everything Scholar lost and is now worse at. So I compiled a list of facts of the state of Scholar right now and possible fixes. Don't reply to this about one specific point I made, just read it and become aware of the current state of Scholar.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by szarina

i am going to main Bard with astro alt. I just tired PVP HAHAHAHAHAH ;I did not even get a fairy! Gimp us some more why don't ya ? This is nuts . With everyone playing DPS you would think they want more healers. I would have cont playing my sch. but now you lost another healer . WTG

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Uh... if you didn't get a fairy, you likely didn't press the button with Fairy Gauge built up.

To be honest, us only having lustrate with no fairy makes it so we can't compete in pvp.

whm's have cure ii
ast have benefic ii
sch have lustrate

The shield on Adloquium is probably what balances it out early on since it's the same potency as Cure II if you count the shielded potency as well. Then in addition to the 2500 pot heal + 2500 pot shield, you have Lustrate. If you had full uptime on Eos while in PvP, it'd be too much, so they kinda made it like Fey Union lite.

To summarize healing abilities -

SCH gets Physick which is 2500 / Adloquium which is 2500+2500 shield / Lustrate which is 2500 but costs AF / Embrace 1500 while casting heals with Eos out.

WHM gets Cure 2500 / Cure II 5000 / Regen 5000 overall HoT / Benison 25% HP shield / Bene 100% HP recovery / Assize 1500.

AST gets the 'least' heals with 2500 Benefic / Benefic II 5000 / Essential Dignity 1500-4500 depending on HP.

I think SCH's role in PvP is mostly mitigation given the kit they got compared to WHM which got the "pure heal" role.

SCH in PvP are no good? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thats funny.

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Originally Posted by curather

To be honest, us only having lustrate with no fairy makes it so we can't compete in pvp.

whm's have cure ii
ast have benefic ii
sch have lustrate

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Have you tried destroying the MP of the other healer with Broil? You should.

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

To summarize healing abilities -

SCH gets Physick which is 2500 / Adloquium which is 2500+2500 shield / Lustrate which is 2500 but costs AF / Embrace 1500 while casting heals with Eos out.

WHM gets Cure 2500 / Cure II 5000 / Regen 5000 overall HoT / Benison 25% HP shield / Bene 100% HP recovery / Assize 1500.

AST gets the 'least' heals with 2500 Benefic / Benefic II 5000 / Essential Dignity 1500-4500 depending on HP.

I think SCH's role in PvP is mostly mitigation given the kit they got compared to WHM which got the "pure heal" role.

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You missed out the AST having the aspected heals which are one of the main parts of his kit also do those potencies take into account the buff from the sects?

Main Issue: The class is unfun as hell.

Issue #1: 0 good AoE to spam. This makes 4 mans an absolute chore to do.

Issue #2: Fey Union is just unfun. If the Fairy could act during it with an increased leash range that would be stellar. Or delete it and give me something that isn't dissipate level bad.

Issue #3: Quickened Aetherflow sucks. RNG based skills just feel bad on a healer.

Issue #4: The nerfs were heavyhanded. We need something back, right now there is almost no reason besides Chain Strategem to take us in a raid.

Issue #5: Pet reactions are still clunky and unresponsive. Eos should do what I tell her immediately, not when she gets around to it.

Those sum up my biggest issues. I love the class to death. Fairies are cool. You crushed an excellent class and now you need to fix it.

Copy/Paste from the other thread so I can compplain again about this travesty.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

You missed out the AST having the aspected heals which are one of the main parts of his kit also do those potencies take into account the buff from the sects?

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He is talking about PvP.

At the end of heavens ward AST had a better shield than adlo but with a crit your shield was much better that seemed like a fine spot to have them in but now theres just no reason to want a sch for shields mdef isnt good enough when we get flat mitigation from pld and collective

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

At the end of heavens ward AST had a better shield than adlo but with a crit your shield was much better that seemed like a fine spot to have them in but now theres just no reason to want a sch for shields mdef isnt good enough when we get flat mitigation from pld and collective

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Adlo is just bad. Why would I ever use it other than phase transition -> DT or pre tankbuster? It absolutely DESTROYS manapools and it rarely is worth it. Even as an emergency tactics -> Adlo it just matches the heals others have on demand and it costs a truckton. It's now a joke.

I am convinced that no one at Square parses or playtests any of their healer classes. The fact that people have jobs there after how they balance is baffling. Who actually approved this? I want names. These people should be fired.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

Adlo is just bad. Why would I ever use it other than phase transition -> DT or pre tankbuster? It absolutely DESTROYS manapools and it rarely is worth it. Even as an emergency tactics -> Adlo it just matches the heals others have on demand and it costs a truckton. It's now a joke.

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thats why i was saying neither classes sheild needed to be changed from what they were pre sb both classes had them in a good place

Sch definitely got did the healing is not as strong even as a good sch and the pet has to heal her self we cant use sustain weaker heals weaker dps i understand trying to make sch more heal oriented but we are like not in dps and not in heal definitely not in a good spot even emergency tactics and deployment seem to have very lil to no benefit when i use them in a ex boss i c no difference in heals it needs a balance and why does my fairy keep getting hit by boss mechs did they nerf her speed movement to teh again i think its because she stops to heal herself since i cant cast sustain and dies

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

I am convinced that no one at Square parses or playtests any of their healer classes. The fact that people have jobs there after how they balance is baffling. Who actually approved this? I want names. These people should be fired.

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I wouldn't say outright fired, but I do think the vast majority of people in charge of all the class balances need to be written up in some fashion. If a class isn't broken it's overtuned, if it's good in PVP it's generally shit in PVE, and in their quest to lower AOE damage across the board they've put some classes in very constricting spots that make certain sections of their leveling kit an outright pain to experience.

What are my thoughts as an ex-SCH?

I quite literally can not put them down here, as I fear Square-Enix would most likely initiate a ban due to excessive coarse language.

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Originally Posted by Esja

When I'm DPSing:
• I'm pressing nothing but Broil 80% of the time, which is mindnumbingly boring
• I press two DoTs once every 20ish seconds
• I have almost 0 AoE potential with the nerfing of Bane and Shadow Flare and can't even pretend to contribute with Blizzard II or Miasma II since they were removed.
• I can stare at all the abilities I get from 60-70 all I want knowing that I'm stuck with this horrible rotation for the foreseeable future.

When I'm healing:
• My pet heals feel like Eos learned how to turn on old Cleric Stance.
• My brand new Divine Seal buff doesn't help my pet or my instant heals.
• My Adlos cost almost as much as a Succor and are outclassed by AST's instant cast, cheaper version

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I agree.

I loved SCH because it was complicated and interesting. Now it's just broil spam. I didn't take this job to be a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Enla

I wouldn't say outright fired, but I do think the vast majority of people in charge of all the class balances need to be written up in some fashion. If a class isn't broken it's overtuned, if it's good in PVP it's generally shit in PVE, and in their quest to lower AOE damage across the board they've put some classes in very constricting spots that make certain sections of their leveling kit an outright pain to experience

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I would say fired. There is simply no way any sort of QA was done on this. Combined the state of SCH with MCH... I really don't trust the people behind the changes to do anything positive for class balance going forward. A lot of these issues are simply common sense. You can't teach that nor can you really learn that. If someone actually approved SCH, like actually played them and said, "Yeah, this comparable to the other healers. This is good." then this person is a liability. Unless everyone on the dev team is completely incompetent, someone goofed up really hard and they need to be moved to another department or let go.

Took some time off from playing... logged in the 1st time this year, and was crushed after playing a few dungeons... not crushed by mobs... or difficulty, Crushed emotionally with the complete lack of recognition of what was a fun class. Several people in my old FC flat out warned me to switch to WM or play with the red mage if I wanted to actually have fun...

Quickened Aetherflow: Replace with:
New Trait: When a fairie crits, there is a % chance (probably 50%) that you will gain enhanced Adloquium for 20s, causing your next Adloquium to have a 100% chance to crit.

Dissipation: Lower the cooldown to 90/120 seconds. Also, the fairie should not be unsummoned, but instead temporarily put in stasis until the buff ends.

Excogitation: Should consume Aetherflow upon healing. If no healing takes place, no Aetherflow is consumed.

Fey Union: When the target has to move, Fairie gauge is depleted, but no healing takes place.
**Fey Union could be made into something much more interesting. IMO, change how it works depending on which Fairie is summoned (similar to SMN Enkindle). Eos could cause a heal, while Selene could create a shield, for example. (EX: Selene consumes up to 40 fairie gauge in order to cast galvanize on the target. 25 potency per 1 gauge consumed, so max 1000 potency)

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Originally Posted by Falsedemise

Quickened Aetherflow: Replace with:
New Trait: When a fairie crits, there is a % chance (probably 50%) that you will gain enhanced Adloquium for 20s, causing your next Adloquium to have a 100% chance to crit.

Dissipation: Lower the cooldown to 90/120 seconds. Also, the fairie should not be unsummoned, but instead temporarily put in stasis until the buff ends.

Excogitation: Should consume Aetherflow upon healing. If no healing takes place, no Aetherflow is consumed.

Fey Union: When the target has to move, Fairie gauge is depleted, but no healing takes place.
**Fey Union could be made into something much more interesting. IMO, change how it works depending on which Fairie is summoned (similar to SMN Enkindle). Eos could cause a heal, while Selene could create a shield, for example. (EX: Selene consumes up to 40 fairie gauge in order to cast galvanize on the target. 25 potency per 1 gauge consumed, so max 1000 potency)

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Quickened Aetherflow should just be a flat CDR reduction on Aetherflow. SCH is the only healing class who actually lost HPS when their strength was having higher HPS in Cleric Stance which no longer works as it did. As SE adds more Aetherflow abilities, they add more competition for the stacks. As it stands, Excogitation is a situational Lustrate which is rarely ever worth it over just using Lustrate.

Fey Union needs to have the healing buffed to where it is with melding direct hit (jumps from around 5-6k to 9-9.5k a tick). It needs a longer range (100y like Bahamut) and that's it really.

Excogitation needs to be stronger. The amount of planning it requires isn't really rewarded as well as it could be. 50 more potency over Lustrate, still costs a stack of Aetherflow. If it wants to compete with Lustrate, it needs to be stronger. Remember, every other healer can handle what Excogitation brings with ease. It, by definition, is not needed. It should be better than it is.

Many other classes got an interesting trait that added complexity and a sense of fun to the class (WHM and MCH are prime examples). Giving a flat %CDR to Aetherflow would be very simple and not fun. Giving a way to guarantee crits on Adlo allows players to add in a little playstyle because it's not only helping Adlo, but also Emergency/Deployment Tactics as well.

I agree with the longer range.

The point behind Excog isn't the potency of the heal, it's the GCD. You're saving a GCD when you're in a hot mess by using that GCD earlier. I'd agree though that as it stands right now, it's not needed. Then again, there's a lot of SCH spells that are not needed.

TBH, besides the AOE damage buff of some kind, the only buff I really want from SCH is for the faerie to re-summon cheaper or more easily after Dissipation, with faerie gauge in tact. It still feels weird to sacrifice your faerie for aetherflow, but if the idea was more like, "your pet fuses with you so you can be more powerful!" and resummons automatically, it would be more of an asset and less horrible. In HW, I've never needed to use dissipation, and I thought that getting 3 immediate energy drains while risking losing swiftcast-rez was too greedy. In SB, I feel like I need to use my aetherflow for clutch heals more than energy drains so dissipation has come in handy, which is fine; actually I enjoy needing to utilize more of SCH's tools. But it's scary to go through a good chunk of the fight without your fairy or needing to slow-cast it instead of healing or dpsing, not to mention it feels just garbage slow casting your pet.

I'm finding myself using Dissipation and Emergency Tactics far more often now than I ever did in HW, which is ok but at the same time I do have a problem in that these skills could be more useful in general.

Emergency Tactics is, in essence, just turning Adlo into a cure 2 as it gives up the shield as a heal and while it does maintain that a crit adlo grants the heal to be triple in value, it really isn't an often enough occurrence for the amount of MP we need for adlo. So, can I suggest E-Tactics also reduce the cost of Adlo by half? I mean if you don't have enough MP for Adlo, wouldn't that classify as an emergency? It's not like it would be OP in any way, just a means to help out SCH get a decent sized heal while helping in their resource management and the CD on Emergency Tactics (even with the reduction) would be a good balancing point anyways.

While I feel Dissipation just needs a free fairy summon afterwards and I'd be fine with it, there are some other issues that need to be addressed about it and it's interactions. Even with the extra heal potency and Aether stacks it grants, the skill barely breaks even as a means of resource management. We're using Dissipation for the stacks more than anything because most of our oGCDs take stacks and the healing potency increase doesn't affect them (as far as I know), which really limits that part of the skill's usefulness and while our base heals are stronger, we are just breaking even with losing the fairy, if even that as any of the Fairy's Ability would have been up again by the time Dissipation runs out so we lose out on maybe using 1-2 abilities in the time of Dissipation, to say nothing of the Fairy Guage we had accumulated prior to using Dissipation. Add to that, the cost and time of resummoning the fairy and we go negative.

As for the SB skills, I'm hopeful Excogitation will get the boost it desperately needs. I like the concept of the skill but there are clear issues that need addressing with it.

I like Chain Stratagem, just wish it lasted longer or had a higher chance. Something like 20% chance for 20 seconds.

No problem with Quickened Aetherflow honestly. While not a fan of RNG procs to important skills, I'm oddly alright with it as it seems to occur quiet often for me, granted my experience isn't everyone's and it looks like they'll be doing something to the trait anyways so it's whatever.

No comment on 70 skills