DRK is going to be Nerfed in Stormblood

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Originally Posted by Venjenz

Drinking the meta koolaid. All about MOAR DEEPZ. Faster runs, faster, faster, faster. Funny thing, the one mechanic that tanks can do to speed up runs the most k.

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I wouldnt say this is true exactly either, cause I recently started tryin things on my drk that can be more effective playing offensively. Yes I use cool downs , but for instance, I realized that more deepz from the tank also helps when you go offensively instead of putting defense first, a drk can turn grit off and pop shadow skin and abysmal drain spam fore extra dps which bring the moobs down faster. Same with warrior can go into deliverance and do alot more damage , hopefully with pali gettin a new aoe they can do the samething. Of course this depends on your group and how good they are but in this game more dps always seems to be the answer no matter the encounter but playing it safe is always the smartest when you are in the process of learning something

What if, because of DRK, tank populations remained and didn't plummet. Did anyone consider that? Because I know for a fact that there are new tank players because of DRK and some tank players stopped tanking despite DRK's introduction.

But ofcourse this is purely anecdotal and there's really no way to prove either scenario. But I'd like people to keep an open mind about that rather than constantly preaching the silly notion that new tanks/actual good tank changes are fruitless and are not worth the developer investment. As for 4.0? Only time can tell, but with the impending changes and the simplification of the two tank classes I enjoy, there's atleast one once dedicated tank player hesitant on the grip of their greataxe/greatsword.

You could brand me as a mindless Blue DPS for focusing on the DPS aspect. But I enjoy doing actual tanking and strategizing around maximum effective mitigation and positioning as well as optimizing my output. I don't enjoy however standing there playing Dance Dance Revolution and having my efforts be wasted/ineffective and the actual progression of the fight entirely dependent on someone else.

It's just the notion of I'd rather do the damage myself since it's something I can control, especially in pugs, as opposed to only be able to create openings i.e supporting. 200 Potency is better than Balancing 0 DPS for example.

How Is the fight progession ever dependent on someone else? You still have a job to do...

I just don't understand why you people even tank if the gratification you need is to see big pew pew numbers?

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Originally Posted by Azreal

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Because most people, if they're the kind of player that wants to improve and play the game well or at least on an above-average level, quickly discover that simply spamming your enmity combo in defensive stance while popping cooldowns to survive damage is extremely easy, even boring. The design of this game doesn't allow you to break through that ceiling unless you focus on DPS. DPS is the only thing you can add to that list of priorities that will make the jobs any more interesting or challenging to play.

Most good players have long since mastered the former duties (mitigating damage, holding aggro) these are after all the first things you learn as a tank, and are extremely easy to do. So what else are you left with for the purposes of gratification and power-fantasy but your damage?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Dark Knight, despite being one of the most requested jobs, did not increase the tank population in HW.

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I've been thinking about this topic a lot and I have a few thoughts on this that I'd like to offer:

1: At release drk wasn't an easy class to pick up. In my opinion, it had quite the learning curve early and was difficult for people to "get" and so it wasn't very engaging.

2: Drk started at level 30 when a lot of people were itching to get in to the new content.

Now, what if drk had been better designed (purely personal opinion again) and easier to pick up along with starting at level 50 so the people that wanted to play it could jump right in to the new content?

I think that would have caused the tank population to increase even only by a small amount.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

DRK Nerfs:
and I was doing like 1,3K Dps, and warrior 1.6k. Now with this Drk will be doing even less. It's just NOT an improvement.


I really don't like the nerf to the complexity of DRK.
GET GUD CASUALS!

Source: https://youtu.be/8ktzoXqa178

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1.3k on a DRK isn't even good, so do you mean yourself? when your telling people to get good

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Most good players have long since mastered the former duties (mitigating damage, holding aggro) these are after all the first things you learn as a tank, and are extremely easy to do. So what else are you left with for the purposes of gratification and power-fantasy but your damage?

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People underestimate how much damage good tanks and healer can do. When you are looking to skip mechanics say Zurvan Soar, the biggest story isn't weighted entirely on capable DPS. Maintaining respectable dps as tanks/healers while having the ability to do their roles effectively is what makes them good, at least in the context of most modern MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_Nyanners

1.3k on a DRK isn't even good, so do you mean yourself? when your telling people to get good

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If he was looking at dummy A12S, DRK should at least do 1.6k. Is 1.3k even enough kill the dummy? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

If he was looking at dummy A12S, DRK should at least do 1.6k. Is 1.3k even enough kill the dummy? :rolleyes:

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Its not even enough to kill the a11s dummy.

A BiS DRK with no pots or food should be killing the dummy with 30-35s remaining depending on crit RNG, which is about 1750-1800DPS iirc.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_Nyanners

1.3k on a DRK isn't even good, so do you mean yourself? when your telling people to get good

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It's was just an specific comparison example.
I was on A1S, not dummy, long time DPSing as MT, so it's NOT an opening.
And the same WAR on my party was by my side as OT with similar Ilvl. It's just a comparison of me 1,3, and he 1,6, hard to understand?
There's plenty of DPS videos of DRK and WAR on Youtube, so you can see that DRK is lower, and that's is the matter on my example.
And with the changes it will go even lower, not only on DPS but with complexity too.

I'm very good, but my itens are not. There's a BIG difference. I never told anyone that I'm BiS.

The nerf is Official now guys (At least from this data mining): https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_mined_notes/
But let's wait for final patch notes, hopefully I'm wrong ...

Basically nothing changes from april nerf build
Souleater now only leeches 10% HP from total damage, what? it was just a typo, feels good.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

The nerf is Official now guys (At least from this data mining): https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_mined_notes/
But let's wait for final patch notes, hopefully I'm wrong ...

Basically nothing changes from april nerf build
Souleater now only leeches 10% HP from total damage, what?
(Not sure if it was just a typo)

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Well, official patch notes say "A portion of" for both Souleater AND Abyssal, meaning the data mined % is likely correct.

So yeah, this wasn't just a little nerf. This was a hardcore stomp you in the ground nerf for DRK.

WOW, the 1 thing would have been ok about being stuck in grit. So much for massive pulls in dungeons.

So, we lost:

Scourge
Reprisal (new shared one sucks)
Low Blow (new shared one sucks)
Dark Dance (new shared one sucks---no DA enhancement)
DP nerfed hard
DA-DD combo for evade
DA-AD combo for sustain in huge pulls
The one piece of ok stustain we had in ST mode---Grit plus souleater

And gained nothing worthwhile ebcause we also took a huge DPS nerf. THis sucks.

Tested it on a dummy. So far HP restoration on Souleater and Abyssal Drain is 100% of damage dealt.

I'm getting 88mp from blood price, it's 5% of the DA mp. Was it that low before? I don't remember.
Blood weapon is giving 353 mp, it's 20% of the DA mp.
Syphom Strike gives 884 mp, it's 50% of DA mp. In grit it gives 1768 mp, it's 100% DA mp.

Now that we can DA SS maybe we can see some combos while in grit:
HS>SS = 200p/GCD = 50% of DA mp/GCD which is 70p = 200p+70p = 270p/GCD
HS>DASS = 270 p/GCD = 50% of DA mp/GCD which is 70p = 270p+70p = 340p/GCD

HS>SS>SE = 226,66p/GCD = 33,33% of DA mp/GCD which is 46,67p =226,66p+46,67p = 273,33p/GCD
HS>DASS>SE or HS>SS>DASE = 273,33 p/GCD = 33,33% of DA mp/GCD which is 46,67p =273,33p+46,67p = 320p/GCD
HS>DASS>DASE = 320 p/GCD = 33,33% of DA mp/GCD which is 46,67p = 320p+46,67p = 366,67p/GCD

So the best GCD combo for specific situations while in grit:
Burst = HS>DASS>DASE = 366,67p/GCD
Normal rotation with 1 DA = HS>DASS = 340p/GCD
Normal rotation without any DA = HS>SS>SE = 273,66/GCD

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

I'm getting 88mp from blood price, it's 5% of the DA mp. Was it that low before? I don't remember.

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No, Blood Price should be restoring 353 MP at level 60.

I hope that one's just a bug. A 75% nerf to Blood Price is completely unwarranted and basically makes it weak enough that you can just take it off your hotbar and not really notice the difference. The patch notes/job guide don't say the MP recovery has been adjusted at all.

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Originally Posted by Crater

No, Blood Price should be restoring 353 MP at level 60.

I hope that one's just a bug. A 75% nerf to Blood Price is completely unwarranted and basically makes it weak enough that you can just take it off your hotbar and not really notice the difference. The patch notes/job guide don't say the MP recovery has been adjusted at all.

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Hopefully a scaling bug and the 70lvl version feels okay.

Can confirm that blood price is only giving back 88mp.

Also, Dark Passenger costs WAY too much for a 100 potency attack, it's cost needs to be reduced considerably.

Yeah, from 7 oGCDs to 4, but really 3 - since Dark Passenger should not be used to on single target anymore unless you're at risk of topping off MP - feelsbad. Hate leaving DP sitting. Goes against 2 years of habit.

Even after they fix Blood Price's MP restore, they still should to buff the cooldown in additional ways. The added MP restore of Syphon starts to take away the edge of Bloodspiller. Additional improvements to Tank-stance MP restore needs to come from Price, not the rotation.

Almost 62, want to see how Price builds gauge natively, since it says 1 blood natively and 4 over time.

i still don't know if Blood price is intentional atm. mp recovery is so low right now...

After logging in I discovered The Dark Passenger nerf is WORSE. Instead of the MP doubling and 10 pot loss during Dark Arts the base potency is only 100 now as well.

I don't even.....

Well, I'm not a pro tank, but I've been really into DRK lately. Here's how I'm handling the change:

Initially, I was really peeved. My entire playstyle appeared to have been obliterated, and I was depressed about tanking seemingly being reduced to nothing but hanging out in tank stance and spamming basic combos all day long. Thankfully, I've discovered a few things about the new DRK that catch my interest (at Lv60, I can't comment on 61+ yet).

First of all, even though we can't use Blood Price out of Grit anymore, we do get double the MP regen from Syphon Strike while in Grit. A single Syphon Strike gives you the same amount of MP as a Dark Arts cast. This is a lovely change because it seems to me that, as long as you have Blood Price on, you can essentially do the same DPS with Grit on as you can with Grit off, as long as you keep your cooldowns properly managed. I've actually be stance dancing more on DRK now. For bosses, I start out in Grit, build my aggro cushion, using Blood Prie and my Syphon combo. Because of the enhanced MP restore from Syphon, I can use two Dark Arts per combo; I enhance both Syphon Strike and Souleater. Heck, I sometimes even throw in an enhanced Carve and Spit (though I usually save that CD for when I'm off Grit). After Blood Price ends, I switch out of Grit, use Blood Weapon, and repeat the process. However, due to getting less MP from Syphon and the new lack of oGCD skills (which is annoying me greatly), I can't manage more than one Dark Arts per combo, reducing my damage while not in Grit. So as a result, I think I'm doing roughly the same damage in Grit as when I'm not. However, Grit is only useful when I have Blood Price up, and no-grit is only useful when I have Blood Weapon up. So I'm constantly switching between the two.

I have heard that switching stances drains the Blood Gauge later on? If that's the case then perhaps this is only a 60-and-below strategy. However, I am finding the stance dancing quite fun. I just wish we had a DoT to manage upkeep on and still had at least one of our oGCD MP gains for Blood Weapon.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

However, due to getting less MP from Syphon and the new lack of oGCD skills (which is annoying me greatly), I can't manage more than one Dark Arts per combo, reducing my damage while not in Grit. So as a result, I think I'm doing roughly the same damage in Grit as when I'm not. However, Grit is only useful when I have Blood Price up, and no-grit is only useful when I have Blood Weapon up. So I'm constantly switching between the two.

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One thing I didn't fully realized until now is how much MP Dakside used to drain. Now that it's removed, it's extremely fast to replenish your MP by simply not using Dark Arts...especially with the reduced cooldown on Blood Weapon :)

I still have to gain to experience how the Blood Abilities work.

a single note from my part, soul eater self heals is still 100% the damage you dealt.

I would say at this point the Blood Price change is an intentional nerf.

Grit Soul Siphon restores more MP then Sole Survivor restore. Hilarious.

I'm not a good tank, nor do i usually main tank. But some changes that feels like it would be usefull for DRK would be something like this.
"Sole Survivor" Either make it cost blood gauge, or make it reset the durotation on kill.
"Scourge" Give it back as a combo finisher and maybe add some Dark art bonus to it.
"Delirium" Start with halving the cooldown in two.
And merge "Blood Weapon" and "Blood Price" since not it just clutters the interface.

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Originally Posted by shao32

a single note from my part, soul eater self heals is still 100% the damage you dealt.

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It didnt for me.

The bosses in Anit Tower do practically no dmg to me.
Our healer kept dieing from the very start of the fight, and id just sit there, waiting for AoEs to kill me, since auto attack dmg wasnt strong enough to kill me. (I was practically regening my passive 2% roughly equal to auto attack dmg from the bosses)

But after 10-15mins the boss would kill me.

But eventually we'd get the bosses to near death, again, no healer, and i started only using soul eater combo, and dark arts soul eater, trying to kill the boss quickly (with grit on) and my HP only went down. (at the same slow rate it did when i sat afk for 10mins)

So while this isnt numbers, and technically other RNG factors could have effected the results, im inclined to think something else changes the %, otherwise it would specify the %.
(maybe how much MP u have left, or something.)

First, we were nerfed because we couldn't use bloodprice outside of grit.

Now, even when we blood price in grit, we don't get as much MP as before? This is unacceptable, and that's putting it lightly since I really wanted to make the analogy to equestrian fecal matter. The whole saving grace of sustainable DRK AoE damage was spamming DA-AD, and now that's pretty much gone out the window.

Why this? Our AoE dps isn't even that strong in grit.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

First, we were nerfed because we couldn't use bloodprice outside of grit.

Now, even when we blood price in grit, we don't get as much MP as before? This is unacceptable, and that's putting it lightly since I really wanted to make the analogy to equestrian fecal matter. The whole saving grace of sustainable DRK AoE damage was spamming DA-AD, and now that's pretty much gone out the window.

Why this? Our AoE dps isn't even that strong in grit.

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spam quietus then. it's stronger anyway. only you can't keep yourself healed up now

Sadly I think this BP nerf is intended. Without DA DD, with the new weaker Dark Passenger, with thew weaker blood price trash pulls are not nearly as good as before.

I don't have quietus yet but from its description I doubt it will be able to be spammed.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Sadly I think this BP nerf is intended. Without DA DD, with the new weaker Dark Passenger, with thew weaker blood price trash pulls are not nearly as good as before.

I don't have quietus yet but from its description I doubt it will be able to be spammed.

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blood price returns with the blackblood works perfectly and quietus is awesome but like you say in other threats the problem with blood price returns make it very hard use the skill properly with the DA bcs you need all the MP you have for AD

i have Quietus but i have no idea what's the purpose of the skill is. it doesn't have increased enmity and holding enmity in trash groups is really difficult since 4.0 :x so i will spend my mana and GCDs for abyssal drain and then doing mana combo to get my mana back for the next trash pull. i will rather use delirium for more mana to spam abyssal drain more often than using even more mana for DA Quietus o.ô;

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Originally Posted by Tint

i have Quietus but i have no idea what's the purpose of the skill is. it doesn't have increased enmity and holding enmity in trash groups is really difficult since 4.0 :x so i will spend my mana and GCDs for abyssal drain and then doing mana combo to get my mana back for the next trash pull. i will rather use delirium for more mana to spam abyssal drain more often than using even more mana for DA Quietus o.ô;

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Yeah i made a post about this quietus is useless, this was a terrible trade of for what we lost i do not know what SE was thinking all i know is i that i'm nolonger playing DRKS and i'm likely nolonger playing SB until these glaring issues are fixed.

I don't know where to start. I feel Dark Knight has been utterly ruined as a class.

Reprisal is lost--the "role" version is a joke. There went 420 pot of attacks every minute
Low Blow is lost---the "role" version is also a joke. This was only 100 potency but proc'd often
Scourge is lost---500 potency every 30s
Dark Dance is lost---no more DA-DD during big pulls and who cares about the role version, nothing is proc'ing from parry now they removed the skills
Blood Price---does not give enough MP for trash pulls anymore, also gated behind Grit
Dark Passenger---Nerfed to shit, only useful now with Dark Arts on at least 2 enemies
Unleash---with this nerf, who even cares about the free cast from unmend openers?

We lost all of this and what did we get?

Another high potency attack to use with dark arts (where does this leave carve and spit?) , an AoE attack most people don't know where to fit in, and a stoneskin. Darkside is a bit better, but not enough to make up for all that we lost. We can DA SS sometimes now for a bit more burst.

I tried to keep an open mind but I really feel they just completely gutted our class and gave us no reason to play. I did a roulette to check out some of the new changes and got a l50 one---WOW is this class boring to play with l50 sync now.

Visually/aestheticallly I miss Delirium and Scourge and the sounds of Reprisal. Also, Rampart just feels and looks wrong compared to Shadowskin.

I absolutely agree with you Falar, if there's anything I'm really missing visually its definitely Shadowskin and Reprisal. They sounded and looked so satisying- I'm aware the new Reprisal is the same animation, but no mini screenshake and gorey slicing sound on top of the damage it did is just so... empty

I would love skill glamour, like with the egi-glamour you would be able to turn your rampart back into shadowskin or something

Stupidest thread of someone who doesn't know there job well smh

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

Stupidest thread of someone who doesn't know there job well smh

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Enlighten us then.

Get to lvl70 before you speak you haven't even mastered the job and have a opinion smh these tank threads are full of crybaby's who complain about jobs that they either dont play or just want to complain to complain with absolutely no basis to back it up!!