If you could make impovements to Deep dungeon...

SILVER TREASURE CHESTS:

• One garantied silver treasure chest per floor
• Save progress every time you get an upgrade, no matter if you die or not
• Every boss drops a silver treasure chest

FLOORS:

• Savepoint every 5 floors
• Increase time limit from 60 to 90 (or more)
• Choose from which floor you want to start, if you start a new game

SOLO:

• Cairn of Return and Phoenix Down work as auto revive for solo players
• Bossfights should be possible for all classes, not the ones with selfheals
• Achievements for beating Deep Dungeon in Solo Mode (maybe some special dress?)
• Limit Break for undersized partys

CONTENT:

• Having additional objectives like "Kill Enemy X", "Reach the next floor within 5 Minutes" or "Protect NPC Y". Extra treasure chests as reward.
• Interactions with traps, doors, secret ways, ... .
• Random optional boss encounters within the floors

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

If you are successful get a guaranteed reward. If you are not, then no reward.
What's the problem with that?
Oh I know, it wouldn't artificially hamper player's time and effort as a cover for shallow and poorly presented content.

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But that will already come (guranteed upgrade if defeated floor 50 boss)

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Increase time limit from 60 to 90 (or more)

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and reduce the respawn rate to balance out the exp/time again

Really, 30 extra minutes would be too much and would kill the challenge in solo mode. 5 or 10 extra minutes will be enough.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

SILVER TREASURE CHESTS:

• Save progress every time you get an upgrade, no matter if you die or not

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I'm not so sure about this, people might just leave/purposely attempt to wipe the group when they feel like it in the middle of the run when they get the upgrades they want leaving everyone else to fend for themselves.

I would just align all the upgrades together so everyone in the group gets the same upgrades instead of someone hitting 30 and someone else getting +0 in the same run. Everyone could get +2/+2 or everyone gets 0, so everyone gets screwed together or everyone benefits. It would at least remove the chance of someone getting to +30 and getting screwed by someone that got no upgrades because they don't want to save. Obviously this would still follow the upgrade scheme with the levels and such and should be within reason.

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Originally Posted by Felis

But that will already come (guranteed upgrade if defeated floor 50 boss)


and reduce the respawn rate to balance out the exp/time again

Really, 30 extra minutes would be too much and would kill the challenge in solo mode. 5 or 10 extra minutes will be enough.

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Although a step in the right direction, I don't think a +1 at the boss will completely solve what's happening. People are leaving/wiping when they see other players getting +3 or more from the run.
Was in a group earlier today when the tank & a dps quit at the end of lvl 49, and they'd both got more from the run than my +1.
Still did it with the two of us, but it shows that if the possibility is there for greater rng reward, some people will target that with little or no consideration to other group members.

Nice to see that we will get at least another upgrade after the defeat of lvl50 boss. Hopefully it means that both are going up and not having it RNG again..

"Aetherpool equipment will have a higher chance of receiving an upgrade upon opening silver coffers in earlier floors."
Does this mean that we will get an upgrade even if your lvl is not twice the lvl of the equipment or does that just mean that a person that has a low equipment lvl will get a higher chance to upgrade? If its the first this would be like a dream come true if its the latter than this would not help at all since people that are over 20+ still have to grind the higher floors to get one.

My improvements (some already mentioned in this thread)
- Increase the timer after floor 30 at least to 90 minutes:
If you have a bad party/roles and/or bad luck you will get quite the problem with time. Depending on the roles that you have, you have to go really slow, so that you dont die but this means that you cant really explore every room, otherwise time might not be on your side. And since you don't know how good those other three random players will play this could lead to a loss thanks to time out.

- Give buffs depending on random party roles:
You can sign up to run this with randoms and you can get an all healer or tank group (or all dps without anyone having the ability to heal). Maybe its just me but healers feel like they cant DPS the same they can outside of this place so it will make some DPS checks way harder. Same with tanks. Maybe if you do it with randoms and get such groups a buff activates that will give you more attack power (for example). Its okay if this only activates on the last 10 floors but I feel that its not really balanced right now with randoms. If you go in with a premade group you wont get any buff because you decided to challenge yourself like that so people still can try it without that buff.

- Tokens for everyone:
Its kinda frustrating to finally get a chest where you find a token (the ones for mount and pets) only for it to be send randomly to a player. It could be send to the one that did the least or that does not truly need it anymore and IMO it would be way fairer if everyone would just get a token or if we could just roll on it. (So if you go into it with a premade you can choose who gets it this time)

Or you could just include those in silver chest too. Decrease the exploding ones and increase the options with the tokens. You can still make it a lower percentage to show but at least we get way more chances to get one and maybe get less exploding chests too..(Yes people might finish the content way sooner this way but imo its better to have people that are happy and might come back than unlucky people that had to run it 16 times and not coming back thanks to that)

- Give us the option to start at floor 30 again after we finished it the first time:
Its kinda boring to have to go through floor 1-30 again. After 30 the difficulty goes up a little so its at least a bit harder but after you have done floor 50 you have to start at level 1 again. Let us join with an already synched level and work our way up to floor 50 again. For people that want to start from the beginning they can do that too. Maybe give a little incentive/bonus if someone goes through everything (maybe a bonus chest after floor 50 with another token or power up).

I also hope that we don't have to start at level 1 again when they implement new floors..Can you imagine how "fun" it will be to go through 99 floors again to reach the end? Or maybe even 199 floors?

- Save points every 5 floors instead of 10 (each 5 floors could have a timer of 60 minutes which would increase the whole timer to two hours) This would make soloing more possible too and will not be as frustrating as loosing all your 10 floors after a wipe or time out.

- Option as a solo player to play without a timer:
A challenge should not come by having to race against a timer that is already kinda short with four random players while you have the same time as a single person. I want to do this solo but for this I have to grind the floors as much as possible to stand a chance against the bosses. At the same time its kinda frustrating to beat all the trash mob (even these horrible slimes) and you only lose because the timer runs out at the boss fight loosing all progress that you made. You don't really have to change the mechanics of monsters even if slimes are really horrible thanks to their insta kill mechanic but all of this could be prevented if someone has enough time to wait out or even leveling up a lot so that they can defeat those slimes before they cast that attack.

So let everything be the same which already make it kinda difficult as a solo player but let us be able to do so on our own time. And for those that want both time and monsters as a combined challenge they could choose to still have a timer on (maybe 90 minutes instead of 60) and if they beat every floor with it they will get a nice little extra reward at the end. (Maybe a title to show of ;)) So everyone can be happy.

Just give us options so everyone can choose how to progress. And if you are afraid that someone will be using this as his new afk spot than make it so that you have to move at least every few minutes. At the end its everyones decision how they want to play in this place and if someone wants to grind there all day than more power to them (since they are playing your game :cool:). And I don't feel like I cant even go to the bathroom because I will lose important minutes that I might need later at the boss fight. :rolleyes:

- Possibility to have some hard tasks after floor 20 or more puzzles in general:
I did not play FF11 so I don't know how they did that there, but I still thought that we will get some tasks that we have to complete in each floor to go on. Right now its just "kill some monsters, either go to the next floor or still grind another monster". Its not really that much fun and the only "reward" that you get for playing really good or playing as a team is finishing the floors faster which is nice but in a way a content should not have the goal to be finished as fast as possible to be kinda fun. (imo) So if you don't want tasks that we have to complete to go on than maybe introduce some task that we can complete if we want to and since they are not really necessary to finish the palace, nobody should really be complaining about them and you can make them even a little harder. You could either make them feel rewarding by being able to finish them or give a little extra bonus for it (like a chest with tokens for everyone or an upgrade). Maybe have tasks that go over several floors or maybe even tasks that will give you some kind of debuff that will make the run harder. You can activate the task by clicking onto a "quest" on a wall and everyone in the party has to agree to do it and after that you can do it. Maybe even spawning a really hard monster or something. Its alway optional and you can only do them if everyone wants to so it can be a challenge for those that want one.

And please make more puzzles on the next floors U_U. I don't want to have to just kill monsters all the time for the next xxx floors. Make the rooms much more random too. Maybe one room is full of ice where you slide all the time which make it harder not to run into a monster and the next has a stream of lava that you can only cross if you built a bridge by kicking rocks into it or by using the right mechanic. Or have single room with a really rare treasure chest but a poison lake before it. Make it so that you have different ways off being able to get over it (having contact with that poison would be insta death) by maybe having a dragoon in your party that can use their jumps the right way or transform into a succubus that flies over there (and the person will die on their way back if you have no second transformation left ;)) or you can just solve a puzzle and the lake will disappear. Either way its only optional but will be quite fun with a premade or even solo. I know that every kind of puzzle will be solved in any way and be written down as a guide soon after that but isn't it better to have at least some kind of puzzles in it and enjoying them for a short time than having none at all? And people dont have to look up the solution for it and even if its get old after a time it would be way more fun, at least for me, for a short amount of time than just killing monster again and again in rooms that may be random but still look way to similar.

All of these are just some ideas that I got while playing through the palace. Some might be harder to include than others and it doesn't mean that all of them should be included at the same time or even at all. But maybe just maybe posting those might give the devs some more ideas for the future. ;)

if even a few of caitlyns nerfs happen, they need to lower the weapon level to 190 or lower.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

No, instead people will get frustrated and quit. You can give something longevity in other ways than by RNG. Like making it fun and not just people button mashing mobs.

The dungeon is just poorly implemented in its current form.

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Low droprates, low spawnrate or RNG. Choose your poison.

Longevity is about how many times you have to do a content. It can be fun, but it don't help if everyone get every reward within the first week.
So, ask for more puzzles, but not for less time sink.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Longevity is about how many times you have to do a content.

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And the relic works "wonders" in that regard without even needing to touch on RNG.

Fun fact on that note: If you have two progression systems, one with RNG and one without, both with the same amount of average effort required, only the RNG system can produce cases in which someone gets his things "instantly".

I just done 5x floor 41-50....and my wpn / armor still at 30/29....
Didnt get any single upgrade in those run....

Is tomorrow hotfix gonna implement floor 50 final boss give +1?

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Originally Posted by soulz

I just done 5x floor 41-50....and my wpn / armor still at 30/29....
Didnt get any single upgrade in those run....

Is tomorrow hotfix gonna implement floor 50 final boss give +1?

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I hope it does. Personally I'm tired of the trolls wiping the group after they didnt get an upgrade.

Also its rather depressing that the 50 boss... or any of the bosses really mean nothing in terms of progression/reward

honestly, besides the lack of silver chest upgrades from floors 41-50 (ones that don't explode, that is), the fact that the trap removal item doesn't remove trap chests, and people who ditch on floor 49, i honestly don't have any complaints with PoD. i don't mind the simplicity of the dungeon. i enjoy having to learn how to play a specific class or job in rather unconventional ways with unconventional party set ups while under pressure from monsters. compared to the rest of the content i find PoD refreshing because it's simple enough mechanics wise that nearly any party comp can work so long as every1 stays alert and remains focused. but that's just me =V

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Originally Posted by DemandAPanda

I hope it does. Personally I'm tired of the trolls wiping the group after they didnt get an upgrade.

Also its rather depressing that the 50 boss... or any of the bosses really mean nothing in terms of progression/reward

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I think you forgot about tomestones, commendation, EXP and last boss pot shard.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I think you forgot about tomestones, commendation, EXP and last boss pot shard.

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Tell that to the players wiping or bailing.

Really though, the vast majority of players grinding place are only interested in the weapon.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

if even a few of caitlyns nerfs happen, they need to lower the weapon level to 190 or lower.

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What kind of crazy talk is this? Foolishness like this is why raiders get a bad rap. Some of you really need to check your egos at the login screen.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

if even a few of caitlyns nerfs happen, they need to lower the weapon level to 190 or lower.

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I think it would need nerfing but not 190....220 or 225 sounds right. A step after eso bc 220 weapons are only obtainable from EX content. I would be on board <.<

I never thought I'd get the mount before getting the weapon, but here we are....

http://i63.tinypic.com/33fc9y8.jpg

Been at 30/29 for more runs than I care to remember.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I think you forgot about tomestones, commendation, EXP and last boss pot shard.

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I got more potsherd from bronze chest more than i can get +1 from silver chest in 41-50...

I feel like next time the challenge should be about clearing the floor instead of redoing past floors and hoping for weapon or gear upgrades from chests, but this needs it to be way more challenging than it is right now and reward players with a guaranteed upgrade if they managed to clear.

Also I definitely agree with events or other objectives in floors instead of just killing trash mobs and treasure chest hunting.

I think its fine the way it is. I have the pally and war weapons, sure some of the upgrades were slow, but I was just happy to be earning eso for relic and using the tokens for V materia, whislt leveling the last of my classes to level. I've never had anyone intentionally wipe the run, and dont see the point you can just log out before exiting after boss. Anyway looking forward to future palace updates :)

You know i noticed that if you are too low level for each floors you dont get upgrades even if you found a chest it wont apply to you. Groups are too in a hurry to move floors and doing so in my experience just have you redo stuff over and over. Just me though.

So, I've gotten 2 upgrades-- to 28 and 29 armor-- on floors 21-30. So you can get them on lower levels now. Just a low chance.

Well, after running DD for some time I thought I'd offer a few more suggestions. But these are more minor nitpicks though, nothing I'd get on a soapbox for:

• Allowing you to put your classes' abilities on your hotbar even though you're not a high enough level to use them.: As it is now I had to make macros for each one of my black mage abilities, since I won't have time to put them where I want in the middle of the dungeon when they unlock. It'd be nice to be able to "lock and load" beforehand.

• Turning all the "waiting rooms" between the groups of floors into sanctuaries: Kinda annoying if I want to break off for a bit and come back later that I have to actually leave the place and deal with the lag just outside of DD (or run to the outskirts of Quarrymill where it's less. Still annoying though). And as I see a lot of people with AFK symbols hanging around in those rooms I'm probably not the only person that thinks that.

• Having new auto-translate commands specifically for Deep Dungeon: Unless I'm missing them, some auto-translate commands would help, like <Use the Pomander of Safety>, or <I just hit a luring trap!>. It'd be easier than having to type all that out, especially when in combat.

I'd like to see, I dunno, an achievement, or something as a small "grats for soloing this thingy". As it is unless you take a video there's no real proof that you actually did it.

Mind you I'm still trying to do it, but hey let me steal Edda's hat or something if I can take her on my own :cool:

So just out of curiosity for those of us that have done the palace of the dead since the hotfix is it worse or better getting upgrades now? Me personally, I had my armor go 28 to 30 but every single chest after that was either a mimic bomb or unchanged. Arm only went from 29 to 30 because of the floor 50 boss. There wasn't a single upgrade between floors 6-49.

Drops are still too rare, it should, ideally, take 3 runs to get this down. I know it was just buffed, but it's not buffed enough. This feature could of been the best thing ever, but it's just far too often that you don't get an upgrade. It's too common that your equipment isn't synced, and you still don't get an upgrade. Please, buff this content, make it viable for weapons. Heck, make weapons not so much work to get.

Some changes I would make

• More transformation Pomanders. We already covered Lust and Wrath, but what about the other 5 Sins?
• New floor types. Where the objectives are different from Kill X amount of mobs.
  • PvP floor, face off against another queued party. PvP actions available. Winners get to progress tot he n ext floor, loser gets kicked out
  • Puzzle Floor, where you must solve puzzles to open chests
  • Loot Pinata Floor: No enemies, but more chests than usual, including at least one with a Potsherd
  • Boss Rush. Where players must fin and defeat several minibosses to pass
  • Lockdown. Players mist find keys to unlock doors, they are scattered on the floor. Overlaps with Puzzle floor on some cases
• More Bosses/Midbosses. Roaming bosses that with more intricate mechanics
• Pomander of Escape. Forces mobs engaged with all players to despawn. You lose the exp/chest they may give if defeated this way.
• Give enemies a chance of dropping Pomanders (as orbs for those you already have 3 of)
• Another Rare Pomander will the the Poamnder of Jackpot. Which puts Potsherd in every chest on the next floor
• Related to the above is a Rare Pomander of Radiance that increases the Aetherpool gear of everyone by 1
• New effects:
  • Stagger: Field effect, all mob attacks have knockback and put the targets into a /stagger animation lock
  • Assimilation: Can be removed by defeating certain enemies, but looking at them or related object too long will assimilate you, either turning you into a thrall, a statue or just dead meat. Carin of Return can undo the effect.
  • Doom: in effect, a time minuet. Players have a few mins to get to the next floor before they all die
  • Minefield. No Landmine traps but all other traps will have the Landmine effect in addition to their own and Chest will both explode and drop items
  • Haste II. Increases movement speed both normally and with Sprint.
  • Good Fortune: Less chance of exploding chests or mimics, more chance of getting Potsherd form Bronze chests and enemies dropping chests. Stacks with Pomander effects
• Pomander of Choice. Allows a roulette to spin. Where it stops will be the effect of the next floor. The results are all field effects.
• Final change is more of a correction. The Poamander acquisition message will be "The Party gains a Pomander of X" instead of saying that everyone gets a Pomander each and implying that they aren't shared. Oh and More save slots

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

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Hell no to PvP floor type, hell no to stagger, doom, minefield, and assimilation.

Stagger means any class that cannot kite dies, perma staggered into a wall by mobs.
Doom means that solo/team lacking good dps will automatically be kicked out of the dungeon.
Minefield would cause player frustration to skyrocket.
Assimilation is practically an auto-kick from dungeon for any solo class that is not a dot heavy class, groups will or would wipe from this (going from what I have seen of ozmashade fights).

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

More transformation Pomanders. We already covered Lust and Wrath, but what about the other 5 Sins?

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Pride - Ferdiad
Envy - Ahriman/bomb
Gluttony - Ochu
Sloth - Flan
Greed - Xande...?

Its quite hard to make them voidsent related, but these (varying in power) seem to fit

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Pride - Ferdiad
Envy - Ahriman/bomb
Gluttony - Ochu
Sloth - Flan
Greed - Xande...?

Its quite hard to make them voidsent related, but these (varying in power) seem to fit

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Ferdiad is already set for the Void Arc Raid and Xande is no Voidsent, he is an Allagan.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Pride - Ferdiad
Envy - Ahriman/bomb
Gluttony - Ochu
Sloth - Flan
Greed - Xande...?

Its quite hard to make them voidsent related, but these (varying in power) seem to fit

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They could always make new voidsent designs for it.
Also Xande? He's the emperor of the Allagan empire! He's not a voidsent.

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Originally Posted by Sarynth

So just out of curiosity for those of us that have done the palace of the dead since the hotfix is it worse or better getting upgrades now? Me personally, I had my armor go 28 to 30 but every single chest after that was either a mimic bomb or unchanged. Arm only went from 29 to 30 because of the floor 50 boss. There wasn't a single upgrade between floors 6-49.

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It's easier now. I got my last upgrade between floors 21-24. Didn't notice exactly which one because I wasn't expecting it so early on. It only takes like a half an hour to do floors 1-20 so it's worth finishing floor 50 and resetting your progress every time. Before you could only get the last upgrades in the last set of floors but now you can get them before you are even half way through. :D

I actually would not mind puzzles of some sort, the timer would need to either be removed or give us longer amount of time.
More save slots is a must, and i guess we shall see in the 50 and above floors but hope enemies are more of a challenge

Also they must have made changes for sure in the update a few days ago?
I got a few upgrades yesterday in floors 1-10, and am now at 28 arm, 30 armour :)

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's easier now. I got my last upgrade between floors 21-24. Didn't notice exactly which one because I wasn't expecting it so early on. It only takes like a half an hour to do floors 1-20 so it's worth finishing floor 50 and resetting your progress every time. Before you could only get the last upgrades in the last set of floors but now you can get them before you are even half way through. :D

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I'm currently about to finish my 5th run of 1-50 to complete my first weapon. I'm assuming my luck won't get any better (it never does with this game) and I'll have enough potsherds for the mount when I get my second weapon. So I have THAT going for me. The only bright side to all of these complete runs is that I've managed to avoid any need for daily roulettes.

EDIT: To contribute to the thread, my improvement:

-Seriously increase the rate of Aethergear upgrades. Being on the last 10 floors with 28/27 and NOT being sync'd should be rewarded with upgrades. NOT "aethergear remains unchanged" after FOUR silver coffers drop. This is the LAST and TOUGHEST area of this dungeon at this point and I'm not eligible for an upgrade? Are the "chances" for upgrade that ridiculous? Also, how about specifying the % chance of not upgrading because I can't find it in the patch notes. (% chance of NOT upgrading on the final tier of floors is absolutely ridiculous, IMO.)

I think I'd be okay with the RNG if the content was actually challenging, tbh. But it's really not. Since its not very challenging (in a group that is, havent tried solo but I might now), it just feels like a race to the end like all of the dungeon roulettes. I really wanted an alternative to the dungeon roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Xande is no Voidsent, he is an Allagan.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Also Xande? He's the emperor of the Allagan empire! He's not a voidsent.

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It was definately a stretch I'll give it that (I gave it a ...?), but I was more thinking the Xande clones from WoD than Xande himself. He is after all a very good representation of greed (or perhaps pride)

Ok I haven't finished it yet, but Bait&and traps, Area hazards like Hatalai hard And Quarn hard, FOEs, puzzles, stealth elements, Larger areas, Dungeon equipment tokens for things like Aurum vale weapons and other pieces of equipment, secret paths, more ways and strategic environments to defeat monsters, unique currency, A shop for items and weapon upgrades, non-violent areas, copperbell mines style bosses (like bigsy or stone vigil hard's 2nd boss, and even a boss like that big dragon on the bridge), npcs from the class quests, and maybe a sister dungeon where only your weapons and armor are upgradeable (no leveling).

Minor improvement:

So as far as I can tell, when you see "Gear Strength+5" on floor 21, +8 on 31, and +12 on 41, those are the minimum requirements. It's not a sync indicator because 11 shows nothing, and it's not where you're currently at because my 41 save still showed +12 after I had just turned in for a weapon.

So changing that wording to "minimum gear strength:" or "gear strength required:" would make it a lot more clear for people. (or if that's not what that is, some other indication on the save what the minimum is)

And are those numbers the total of arm/armor or do they each have to be that amount or higher?

also, minor improvement to the rest of the game: Add that lock icon to all the menus!

Doesn't really have to be specific to deep dungeon but how about adding a dual effect to Toad. What if while as a toad you could move past Poroggos undetected. Introduce toad inducing/curing items that could go into the bronze chests and incentivise opening those or a toad pomander or something.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Doesn't really have to be specific to deep dungeon but how about adding a dual effect to Toad. What if while as a toad you could move past Poroggos undetected. Introduce toad inducing/curing items that could go into the bronze chests and incentivise opening those or a toad pomander or something.

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Damn, that's... that's a good one.

That said, would need to be able to open chests while shapeshifted, or at least as toad, for that incentive to pan out. (Imagining a wide-eyed toad expression upon looting.) And we'd need a serious poroggo population on a random floor or wing thereof.

The dungeon should accommodate to players depending on how many they are on their party.
I'm not really sure if the dungeon balances the difficulty depending on the amount of people in the party, if not then it should since it seems like people say it's easier with 4-man party compared to solo or fewer people.
Also maybe something where 4-man parties get floors with puzzles and mechanics appropriate for a light party, and solo people getting puzzles and mechanics appropriate for solo play (no more exploding things that eats 90% of your health please!) etc.

Again, floors with different objectives or random events would be really nice. :(

Was 27/28 going into a run, got extremely lucky and got up to 30/29 (still on my first weapon because of awful luck), disconnected briefly because of weather, came back to find myself kicked, back to 27/28. I have to say I'm more than a little irritated at how it's entirely in a matched group's hands to reset your progress. I had more progress in that one set of floors than my last five sets combined. But it was wiped.