Can't wait to get this item for my character. The people who say this game will die if they add it are just silly and bunch of drama queens.
Info about the Chinese Cash Shop "Level Jumping Potions"
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12-06-2016, 03:43 AMRemus
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12-06-2016, 03:45 AMserafThese potions will likely be very expensive. I'm thinking somewhere around the $30-$60 mark actually and it will be to counter the RMT from abusing it and to prevent players from relying on them instead of playing the actual game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeonx
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12-06-2016, 05:46 AMStormfur
I'm actually looking forward to this. I've leveled two separate characters to 60 and have a third ready to go for the level jump if it becomes reality. Why? Because I'd like to try a magic class but I have absolutely zero room left to take on another class on my main character.
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12-06-2016, 07:35 AMCulfinrandirWhat? There's many people who have all jobs at maximum & don't require three characters to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfur
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12-06-2016, 10:46 AMBourne_EndeavorNo, they wouldn't. Hence why servers like Balmung and Gilgamesh have no RMT spam whatsoever. A meager $18 transfer fee halted them. Purchasing enough jump potions to level multiple characters to 60 on multiple servers would cost upwards of $2,000 USD (40 characters x $50) per account. RMTs do not spend that kind of money because it simply isn't profitable. A quick google search puts Gil buying at roughly $7 per million. Meaning they would need to sell over a quarter of a billion gil just to break even. None of this includes the sheer amount of time needed to acquire said gil. Basically, not worth it doesn't begin to cover it. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeonx
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12-06-2016, 10:52 AMFoxyArekuUh...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfur
It's literally impossible to 'not have room' for another class. I don't understand what you mean.
Unless you've like...kept every dragoon spear you've ever found and like to lug them around everywhere. -
12-06-2016, 11:00 AMBelhiIt might not be that simple, either mechanically or technically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Firstly, their quest system seems to be a linear progression. Remember Phasing is tied into that. Characters locations and dialog change depending where you are in a quest. They have already said in a previous Q&A regarding replaying older MSQ quests, that the only way they can currently do it is to completely reset all progression back to that point, effectively scrapping everything you had done including access to features and areas.
There is also the fact that someone freshly finished with ARR would get eaten alive the moment they stepped into Coerthas Western Highlands. The first quest of an expansion would have to hand out and entire fresh set of gear for them to actually be able to progress any further. The same will be true for anyone just finishing HW MSQ.
This also doesn't change the fact that this will be an ever growing problem. A lot of Sprouts I have seen quit do so once they reach HW. The reason is, is they want to play with others and they are by that point tired of slogging through what is basically a single player game till you reach endgame. Sure you can run dungeons with them but pretty much 90% of their play time is doing MSQ solo and as one said to me while I was trying to encourage them along "I didn't really get an MMO to play by myself".
The moment Stormblood comes out, even if they can skip patches, it will effectively cause the same issue. They have to play for probably months before they can really engage in the content that the rest of the player base is playing. A lot just lose interest and quit.
This is a problem. It is driving away new players. -
12-06-2016, 02:58 PMsilentwindfri'm totally behind you about this, get a level 50 is not even long anymore... people like to complain for nothing, you have a decent choice for level up your first jobs or even the other jobs, the best one is the dungeon of the dead that allows you to level up at a freaking speed. the potion is not needed, it's only for care about lazy people that simply want to use them money for bypass a part of the content because they want to reach fast what the other have after doing it themself.Quote:
Originally Posted by l---------------l
honestly if the game was still like before when he did come out at the 2.0 leveling was painfull for the other jobs, but that not the case anymore, between the 100% of exp boost and the deep dungeon.... -
12-06-2016, 03:40 PMBelhiThe issue is less about levelling up and more about having to clear 2 expansions worth of quests before you can start playing in with the bulk of other players. That's the thing turning people off and it is turning people off. That's bad. Player churn is a constant factor in MMOs and if less players are starting then you have a drop in player numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
Think of it this way. Your friends convince you to play an MMO with them. You join excited.
The first 30 levels you find yourself enjoying the game and the story.
Next ten levels your settling in and making steady progress. Your talking to your friend but apart from them rushing you through dungoens you have to complete you don't really get to play with them. One invites you to PotD but while you enjoy it and it gives you EXP you find yourself still having to go back and start grinding through quests again. Still you making progress.
Final ten levels you have the build up and reach the finale! Victory. Your happy with the story and feel you have reached a milestone. Lvl 50 complete! But you still cant play with your friends. Now you start on your crawl through the 2.X content. You might not mind it but still its kind of getting old. You want to get on with it so you can finally start playing with real people. Currently your pretty much playing a really long single player game. However you persevere. You get to 2.55. You watch an amazing cutscene. Finally your into HW!
It takes 2 more levels to realise your still 10 levels before this single player content is over and you can finally join in with what the others are doing. You enjoy the world and you enjoy the story but its all you have been doing for almost 2 straight months and your getting really tired of it. You hit by the time you hit lvl 53 your motivation for logging in has dropped right off cause you know you have several hundred quests still to go and its become a chore.
I see that play out a lot helping new players. Now sometimes they push on and finish. Sometimes they take a break but eventually come back and finish. Often they just log off and never come back. You would be surprised at the number of sprouts I have seen quit in early HW. The MSQ is great and most really enjoy it, the story and the characters but the whole thing taken in one go is generally more than most people want. Its just way too long. In 4.0 it gets even longer. That is the problem.
Now maybe there is a better solution than a jump potion but its not people being lazy. This is a problem and SE will have to find a permanent solution cause its not a problem that will just go away by streamlining a few quests or bumping up EXP earned. As the game gets older this problem will just get more acute. -
12-06-2016, 04:07 PMChocolys
I think there is an important distinction between a MSQ+Instant level-up potion, and a potion that allows to level any class instantly on a same character. Both kind exists apparently on the Chinese server.
Even I would prefer another ingame answer to the issue, I can understand for a character to be allowed to use an instant-level up and MSQ skipping for a unique single class so he can play the new current content. But I'm certainly not in favor of potions that allows to level instantly any other classes after that on the same character. -
12-06-2016, 04:16 PMsilentwindfri will be blunt, even if you play with your friend, when you do the main quest, you do it alone, even if they are here, it's a solo experience. we love or hate it, but that the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
if you join a game for play with friend, if they help you to do dungeon, isn't playing with them?
level up one jobs to max level is not even that long now, get 60 is a matter of a few day with deep dungeon, behind you will need to do every quest, but if you equip yourself, with crafted gear, or simply by doing deep dungeon as 60 you can get nice gear and the dungeon below a certain level can be simply rush in solo.
no honestly the point you tell is wrong in too many way. you play with your friend, yes, you are not yet to them point, but honestly it's not that long anymore. it's a lazy way of thinking that is simply i want to get to the end right now! simply no! it's a big mistake to do this.
i'm kinda sure the boost of exp even for the 50-60 will be increase for other jobs then even level up other jobs will not be that long.
if people want to reach the end they have to do the journey... we don't allows people to reach the secret dungeon of FF15 by making them skip the whole story, that the same point here. you purchase a game for all. not only the end game. if they can't enjoy the journey is sad.
skipping the MSQ will make most of the dungeon and raid have no sense for the player, it will have far less impact on you since it will have no background to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolys
an example the death of a npc will have 0 impact if people don't meet them and interact with them throught the msq. i feel people need to grows up and do it.... the msq is not that long, if they want to speed the process they can use the Deep dungeon for reach max level before do it. after this everything will be done in a breath.
before someone say i don't know what i'm talking about, i'm a player of the V1 i had a class 50 when the 2.0 did come out, means i was already ready for go to the end game, but i had to do the whole msq, do i was bothered? no because it did allows me to understand more the world, indeed a few quest of the msq are.... push over, like the part for titan when you must get the food there and there. but with the patch they have work on making the quest better and better. skip this part will alienated the game in the worst way possible! ff14 is a game that grows as you experience the msq, if you make people skip it, it will not be differente than any free to play mmorpg out. -
12-06-2016, 04:37 PMAtoli
SE needs to realize that the majority of its player base are new players still crawling through the TONS of content below max level while those that have reached max level leave the game quicker than it takes to say the word "goodbye".
FFXIV's retainment rate of players sucks, it's only doing well because of the new players joining in all the time. Letting new players skip all that content so they can then proceed to afk for the next 3-6 months in [insert name of new endgame hub here] and realize it's a waste of money to sub for this game since there is nothing to do is one thing only - shooting themselves in the foot.
And that's not even adressing the issue that at least I do NOT want to play in an ignorant community that has no idea what it is doing, no idea what the story is, and so on.
But who am I kidding, that last interview said they are in overwhelming favor of adding it in the dev team, so of course we'll get it, despite other MMOs already showing how negatively it impacts the community - and those are MMOs that actually have something to do for those ahead-skippers, which is not the case in FFXIV, sorry. -
12-06-2016, 05:06 PMYasuhiro
I know they were in a mad rush to get 2.0 out the door to rebuild XIV from the ground up but when making the MSQ they should have thought really hard about it in the long run. I'm all for making it mandatory for series tradition sake but the pacing of 2.0 and to an extent 2.1 to .55 was awful the Titan quest line, having to hand out uniforms after beating Ultima weapon, the constant, "go there, pick up this, come back, go there, collect this, now go here, talk to x, pick up 5 of these, come back here" or Minfillia saying "Pray seeketh for succor at the waking sands, is aught amiss?" (Don't call me on your stupid Link Pearl to to come to that dumb place just to tell me something you could have told me on the magic codec)quests needed to be condensed or shoved into side quests. Most of 2.0's story and questing didn't feel very FF at all and in no way did I want to do it again hence why I'll never make an alt.
It's way too late to try condensing some quests isn't it? Cause they'd have to reprogram the whole game, Heavensward got it right though, you actually went on a journey and made progress when you went to new areas, y'know? like a Final Fantasy game. -
12-06-2016, 06:46 PMJCharmsI don't think they would have to reprogram the whole game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasuhiro
1-50 is fine, cut all of 2.1 to 2.55 out and make a cut scene for it, and do the same for 3.1 to 3.xx, cut it all out and another cut scene. This would restore it back to a decent progression again for all new players entering the game. -
12-06-2016, 07:58 PMJandorMaking access to Ishgard a level 50 quest, and access to Ala Mhigo a level 60 quest, would solve the "I didn't really get an MMO to play by myself" problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
If they get bored with single player progression and decide they'd rather skip it then you or anyone else can come along and run them through dungeons, take them through palace, run FATEs with them, buy or craft them gear to wear, grind out the xp to take them past the story together basically.
As for replaying it later, "A Minstrels Ballad: A Realm Reborn" (and 'Minstrels Ballad: Heavensward'), same cutscenes, same dialogue, same objectives, different (if any) rewards, and crucially, technically different quests. No resetting anything required. -
12-06-2016, 08:02 PMBourne_EndeavorFunny enough. This summary basically echos the majority opinion on MMORPG. Except many lost interest during the 2.1-2.55 grind. Whenever people ask for opinions, the grind to 60 is among the primary complaints too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
The longer quest requirements become, the less likely those same new players will even bother trying XIV to begin with. Expecting the majority of your audience to spend several weeks-- months even -- to play the game they actually want is an exercise in futility. Whether it's laziness, lack of interest or any other reason, people today want to consume content quickly. Those who do prefer the slow trek can still opt out of a skip option or level an alt once they have exhausted everything else. Player retention suffers just as much from people simply losing interest before they even reach Heavensward. As noted above, it's usually cited as one of XIV's primary complaints-- only emphasised further by early game being a complete bore for many. There is a reason most of us claim how much better the game gets once you reach at least 50. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. And yes, you could burn through the story-- skipping every cut scene along the way -- at a somewhat rapid pace. Most people won't, however. They'll pick up another MMO or game in general with a newer shine and less of an early game grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
People with no vested interest to get better won't, no matter the obstacles you place ahead of them. Hence why we already see horrendous players despite them having competed the story. Conversely, those who do actually want to improve will do so at their own volition. A skip potion isn't going to change that. Eventually, the former will quit for the next "big thing" and duty finder will sort itself out. As for not knowing the lore. Who cares? It won't effect you or your enjoyment of said lore. Does it bother you now that plenty of people skip literally every cut scene? A skip's not any different except Square makes money off those players instead of them spamming esc/numpad for hours on end.
The devs have already said their quest system wouldn't allow for this. However they managed the code, it's entirely linear, and would thus require a complete overhaul. Hence why can't replay old quests again. Reverting back would delete everything that came before it. Regardless, if they ever do introduce a skip, it will come at a cost. Square would be idiotic not to profit off it. Not to mention, your suggestion would allow RMTs into Heavensward or Stormblood. Since the only gate way to a free all access pass is leveling to 50 or 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
For one, coding isn't quite that simple. Ripping out a massive chunk will likely disrupt something else; potentially breaking the whole system. The devs have expressly cited this being one of the main issues with redoing old quests; the code they use won't allow for it. Even putting all that aside, they would still need to rewrite and reanimate everything from those patches, then frankenstein it all back together again just to have a somewhat cohesive story for those who do want to experience it. And in this case, anyone wanting the full story has only Youtube since parts of it are now gone. Regardless, none of this comes cheap. All the extensive tweaking they did on ARR and Heavensward would be subtracted from Stormblood's budget. So we all lose new content for adjustments we will never even see. That's reason enough for me to be okay with a skip potion. This way, they don't have to dedicate any funds to tweaks nor rush the story because it's getting too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by JCharms
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12-06-2016, 09:09 PMBelhiJust breaking the MSQ into separate quest chains might be a fix if it is technically possible but it likewise has its problems. People wanting to skip will need gear to handle the skip. Is it just handed out in the first quest or are they expected to go buy it from somewhere? Are people given any direction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
What about unlocked stuff. Case in point is the SMN questline which requires you go to the Great Gubul Library. Access to that only becomes available late in HW. Do they just remove that unlock? If that do that if will fundamentally effect the logic and the nature of the questflow through the first visit to Idylshire. Do they rebuild the questline to accommodate that?
It isn't actually that simple a solution. There is potentially a hell of a lot of reworking of the existing set up, let alone the actual system, just to accomidate such a split.
More over there is a technical system issue here. The reason I bring up replaying is because fundamentally the mechanics which would govern the split/skip of story are the same that effect the ability to replay quests. Yoshi P was asked this at the last Fanfest and he said that the system that controls how the quests are tracked complete or uncompleted and the related lock outs cannot allow for such a set up without completely resetting all that progression.
So yes. Resetting things is required.
How much of time have you actually spent playing the MSQ in the last say, 8 months? Now ask yourself how much time have you been playing FF14. Clearly the MSQ isn't all that you do with your time playing FF14. Infact it is a very small part of Endgame. Plus having max lvl character rush you though low level content doesn't really give the same appeal as doing things with your FC mates at max level.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
I did say the levelling isn't the problem. Its the months of grinding through the MSQ that is what usually breaks people. If people just had to grind to 60 and could skip all the MSQ then it probably wouldn't be an issue. -
12-06-2016, 09:33 PMJandorI'm not sure if we are misunderstanding each other. I'm not suggesting they reset old quests, I'm suggesting it could be done by making what are technically new seperate quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
So you hit 50, decide you want to skip the rest of the MSQ and head directly to the 'Coming to Ishgard' quest, completing it unlocks everything mandatory from 2.X and marks all those quests as done. As if a hypothetical jump potion had been taken.
Later on you decide you'd actually like to experience 2.0 story so you go to an NPC who "unlocks" it but actually behind the scenes they're "new" quests. The dialogue is the same, objectives are the same, it's essentially copy/pasted over but none of the "unlock" flags are there.
Redoing it would then essentially be an unrelated 'side quest' chain from the games PoV, that has got to be doable right? -
12-06-2016, 09:45 PMJandor1. Square would also be idiotic to take their customers goodwill for granted. Money for levels is selling power, it might not be a lot of power in the grand scheme of things, and it may make some people very happy, but I know it will also make a lot of people very unhappy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
They also have to think of their reputation, a boxed game with paid for expansions and a subscription also selling boosters in a cash shop? It doesn't exactly scream 'consumer friendly'.
2. I don't think that the best way for SE to go about countering RMT is to make life harder or more expensive for their customers. -
12-06-2016, 10:17 PMBelhiWhat your talking about sounds like a pretty massive amount of work and by the way they have talked about how the quest system works, potentially not feasible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
For example, lets consider phasing. You have characters and terrain that changes as the quests progress. What happens if that phasing conflicts? A wall is there for one quest but isn't for the other. Which quest takes priority in the phasing?
I seriously doubt its a simple case of cut and paste.
Let's not pretend that SE hasn't thought about this a lot. They know that a Jump Potion is controversial. However they also know the problem that exists and the systems that any fix is going to have to be implemented on.
As for cost, I would say the best fix would have one come with the expansion itself and any additional ones purchased costing money, much like how WoW handles it's Auto Lvl up mechanic. -
12-06-2016, 10:37 PMJandorWhatever they do, I hope they put it off until they can do it right. The story is good and I feel it would get a lot less flak if it was something that could be skipped and done as a side activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Charging people to essentially delete a portion of the game just strikes me as probably the worst of many possible options.
Oh! As for phasing, just go with whatever it looks like after unlocks and completions. I can't think of that many instances where it would be a *massive* deal, and from a lore perspective you've already theoretically done it ;) . Technically you're just chatting about it/reliving it/sharing it with a storyteller. -
12-07-2016, 06:08 AMRikku1987
I thought asians are grind lovers o.o
This will come to west too i guess, actually i dont care about it and can understand if newcomers are unable to cope FFs high amount of really boring quests especially with another addon... it gets more and more
Dont see a problem here, go for it SE -
12-17-2016, 11:02 AMRonivan
I don't believe I read this, I started this game at 2.4, I crawled all my way up, learning how to play it properly. I expend 2 months like a beggar making items in the streets of Ul'dah, learning how to craft and how to make money, and today I have my own House, 3 Airships totally made by myself. Its totally unfair now a person can just buy their way up, jump through all the hell I went through learning how to play the game. It's ridiculous. I'm not against jumping the history of Realm Reborn, but I'm totally against giving them lv.50 just like that. Let them jump the history but make them level up their characters from level 1 like everyone did. Also this would make them learn how to play, else we would have a big wave of garbage players who don't even know how to tank or heal properly, and we old players will have to pay for it. If this thing ever go to NA servers I'll just quit the game. SE loves to kill the fans they already have trying to get new ones, and in the end lose both.
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12-17-2016, 11:48 AMImoen
I'm personally out of the game with this announcement. It is the exact reason I am canceling my account as of... about 5 min ago.
It isn't that I think it would necessarily effect me in any way etc... etc... It's just that this type of business model with both P2P and non cosmetic micro transactions (Edit since people are so hung up definitions of slang.... of "p2w") with is a deal breaker for me and seems purely greed based, despite what rhetoric people would imply.
In my personal opinion, you can't have it both ways. Either I'm free to log in with no cost, no restrictions, and grind my ass off to the top, with the option of "buying" my way through... OR I'm paying per month to support the team , future development, with peace of mind that my monthly payment was worth something. Ya, I know there is holes in the logic, but both as a developer and as a gamer, I can not stay rallied to this cause.
There is no way in hell I'm dealing with both monthly cost plus level/story skipping being implemented AND stone gain restrictions at the same time. There are multiple ways to handle players falling behind... this is a poor and uninspired way to do that.
Before anyone asks either, no, you can't have my stuff... I'm simply voicing my thoughts on this. Anyone that doesn't agree is fully free to do so and I'm not going to flap my hands about trying to get other people to agree with me. JFYI
Edit: didn't mean to derail your topic. Just "rawr" -
12-17-2016, 01:46 PMFrownyWin what though? I see this and P2W tossed around but I don't see how people are "winning".Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoen
If anything, old players still have the advantage. They will likely be better geared and understand things better. -
12-17-2016, 02:32 PMBourne_EndeavorIs it cheating they can simply level through PotD and Beast Tribe dailies, which give exorbitantly high EXP rewards? On the crafting side of things, Moogle quests give upwards of a million EXP per day. Compare that to people who leveled upon Heavensward's release. Is that unfair too? Why does it matter how they level, provided there isn't any tangible advantage afforded them over you? People who opt into a skip potion will need to spend potentially hundreds of dollars. I, meanwhile, can put that money towards a new game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronivan
Like Frowny, I'm curious to know how you define this P2W. If we break it down, potential jump potion-ers still (have to):Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoen
- level to 70
- are subjected to weekly restrictions
- upgrade their outdated gear
- learn their job if they have any Savage aspirations
- be kicked from parties if they refuse to listen to advice or play poorly
So... what, exactly, have they won? -
12-17-2016, 02:43 PMWolf_Heartnet1 million exp vs 50-60 free levels is hardly a good comparison. To add to this, one is available to everyone and the other is only available with real money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
My opinion is that they should look into alleviating the problems for everyone by making free changes in patches (Remove MSQ req to get into heavensward/stormblood, increase MSQ exp) rather than jumping onto the cash shop train. I'm waiting to see if they actually make such changes for the stormblood patch notes when they come around. -
12-18-2016, 02:47 AMAlphaFox
Also to note, unless they are willing to pay for 13 leveling pots, they only get 1 job to 60 (with the subjob to 15), so they still have to level everything else from level 1.