1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

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Originally Posted by Petori

Personally I don't think it's about making this game easier. Grinding isn't hard, it just takes time. And for some people leveling a class only for couple abilities is a timesink that is not worth it.

Anyways it's still a personal matter. If you (directed @OP) being denied because of a skill means to you so much, I would believe that should be enough motivation to level to get that skill.

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Truth...

To be honest, I had to level mages and I don't like them. Even if I wanted to solo efficiently, I needed to level mages. And you really have it easy now, you can get from 1-50 in a matter of days. You only have to get to 36 for Sentinel.

People talking about hellfire damage like if it were game breaking. Sentinel is much mo useful to counter other aspects of the fight than a survivable hit. Sentinel really shines when you get animation locked on p3 and after

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Originally Posted by Raijin

People talking about hellfire damage like if it were game breaking. Sentinel is much mo useful to counter other aspects of the fight than a survivable hit. Sentinel really shines when you get animation locked on p3 and after

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I apologize for being behind the times on the battle info, but what is the animation lock? I've done the fight a few times, and while I probably did experience it, I'm not quite sure what exactly it is.

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

hey i have an idea:

lets get rid of the armory system all together and only allow a character to lvl 1 class

thats what everyone wants right? cause they want to be able to use their main class and main class only

and not use the armory to its full potential by learning cross-class skills that are not only beneficial to urself but to your whole party

its simple; time + effort = rewards

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welcome to the worst idea list

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I apologize for being behind the times on the battle info, but what is the animation lock? I've done the fight a few times, and while I probably did experience it, I'm not quite sure what exactly it is.

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Go up to a monster and hit a weaponskill... while that skill is going off (being animated on your screen) try to run away because (use your imagination here) a big explosive pillar of fire is about to consume your character.

You can't move while a WS is being animated... i.e. animation lock.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I apologize for being behind the times on the battle info, but what is the animation lock? I've done the fight a few times, and while I probably did experience it, I'm not quite sure what exactly it is.

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I believe that Animation Lock refers to when you use an ability or weaponskill and are completely unable to move until the animation is over. As such, it's important to time your ability use so that you aren't stuck in a Doomspike when a plume or an eruption is happening.

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

hey i have an idea:

lets get rid of the armory system all together and only allow a character to lvl 1 class

thats what everyone wants right? cause they want to be able to use their main class and main class only

and not use the armory to its full potential by learning cross-class skills that are not only beneficial to urself but to your whole party

its simple; time + effort = rewards

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That is possibly the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

welcome to the worst idea list

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

That is possibly the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen.

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Sarcasm is a foreign language to both of you.

I don't have sentinel and I survive Hellfire every time. Even on my THM with 2557 HP...

Not to mention I've beat ifrit about 20 times now..

has nothing to do with FFXI'ist

it the people who cant think on there feet and have to have a predetermined plan if one thing is out of there sync its a lost cause, like that in all mmo's.

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Originally Posted by FilthyDisco

I don't have sentinel and I survive Hellfire every time. Even on my THM with 2557 HP...

Not to mention I've beat ifrit about 20 times now..

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If you've beaten ifrit without sentinel, then at the very least the majority of your party has it most likely. And if they don't Kudos to your group because I find that damn near impossible after 40ish attempts, 20ish practically being flawless until hellfire destroys everyone because of not having sentinel. Sure everyone survives, but getting everything together at that point is hard as hell when everyone is around 700hp trying to heal up, dodge plumes, run from chain erupt and keep tank alive.

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

If you've beaten ifrit without sentinel, then at the very least the majority of your party has it most likely. And if they don't Kudos to your group because I find that damn near impossible after 40ish attempts, 20ish practically being flawless until hellfire destroys everyone because of not having sentinel. Sure everyone survives, but getting everything together at that point is hard as hell when everyone is around 700hp trying to heal up, dodge plumes, run from chain erupt and keep tank alive.

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if your HP isn't under 600, you cant be oneshotted by ifrit circular aoe, the only thing that SHOULD kill you. and again, why aren't you stacking up in the hellfire with the cons precasting curaga 2 to top off asap is beyond me.

change your strategy and you will succeed

you're a joke

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

To help combat the "Sentinel Required" we're taking the approach of hosting 2 types of runs. One being a hardcore run, where specific skills are required, and one being a standard run. Standard run lists helpful skills, but does not require any of our members to actually have them to participate.
Sure the standard parties might have a tougher time, but no one is excluded.

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What's hardcore about asking party to go in easymode?

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Originally Posted by kro

I'm not on your server, but let me put this in perspective for you. Our LS started getting a bunch of applications ever since we beat Ifrit because we were one of the few that were still recruiting on this server.

How many of these applicants will fit well with our small active roster? How many just want a free ride to a win?

Oftentimes I will ask, "Are you willing to level GLA for Sentinel if you want to do Ifrit fights?" The reasoning behind this isn't that the ability is necessary to win. It's to determine whether or not this person values our time enough to make the effort to improve.

So if the guy answers, "No way, I'm a dedicated mage only," then I figure that this guy probably wouldn't be a helpful person in the LS in general.

I'd rather take the guy that only has one job to 50 with the right attitude and teach him how to dodge eruptions. Finding people who want to do a good job is a lot harder than finding people who want free wins.

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I was going to say this very samething. OP think its ok to "gimp" himself/herself but doesn't know what that really says about them.

A reasonable argument. I think the idea that your character can become more versatile through leveling multiple classes is a must keep. But, players should be able to participate in any event without being singled out for not having an ability. Possible solutions could be to change the effects of sentinel as a sub class ability or making it require a shield. This is of course assuming that it is not just a community problem.

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Originally Posted by Raijin

if your HP isn't under 600, you cant be oneshotted by ifrit circular aoe, the only thing that SHOULD kill you. and again, why aren't you stacking up in the hellfire with the cons precasting curaga 2 to top off asap is beyond me.

change your strategy and you will succeed

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Strategy is fine. Point is, without sentinel the fight is nothing but luck. Why in the world would we not be stacked? I don't even think I said anything about not stacking. Precasting curaga is not going to save us from having to run from instant chain erupts + instant sear or plumes right after a hellfire, what you say only works on paper you leave out way too many factors only leaving in the obvious. But you have a point about one thing, our strategy change was this, pl everyones glad to 36 and put ifrit on farm. Everyones glad is now up to date as of today and we'll see how it goes tomorrow.

It's not luck, if you are not willing to level glad to 36 up, then you better the hell enchant your gear with HP+ materias because hellfire only does 2300-2500 with shell2 up.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

^^this...i was actually gonna comment on that fact last night but after reading that post i figured id be better off just sleeping...lol

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But there is a difference between patch one-dot-two and one-dot-twenty. It's not a matter of maths; it's the patch number. :P

HOW about someone run hard mode and win 2/3 times WITHOUT sentinel. THEN tell us how hard they tried and how close they were to losing. THEN we have facts and arguements. OK? ok.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Sorry 1.2=1.20 take a math class please ^.^

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There are basically two systems for numbering software versions, one where the numbers are a single number with a decimal (what you're thinking) and one where the dots just separate different numbers (what Raikki is talking about). In the former you might go from 1.9 to 1.91, but in the latter the revision following 1.9 might be 1.10 or even 1.9.1.

Technically we don't know how FFXIV versions are numbered because the numbering didn't start until 1.15a after the change in development team members. The "0" they use in 1.20 would suggest we're using the system Raikki is talking about. It will be quite a while before we get 2.x revisions that show for sure how they're numbering them.

tl;dr: Take a software engineering class.

I mean you can have six classes at fifty and still not have sentinel.

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Originally Posted by Sarchy_Warchy

HOW about someone run hard mode and win 2/3 times WITHOUT sentinel. THEN tell us how hard they tried and how close they were to losing. THEN we have facts and arguements. OK? ok.

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i won 8 times without sentinel. the difference is there, but it is in NO WAY required to win, you just need to move quick and think fast. Something a lot of players are not willing to do.

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Originally Posted by Sarchy_Warchy

HOW about someone run hard mode and win 2/3 times WITHOUT sentinel. THEN tell us how hard they tried and how close they were to losing. THEN we have facts and arguements. OK? ok.

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That could be done easily 3/3 times. All you need to do is take out 2 nails instead of 1.

FFXI's elitism rears it's ugly head once again...

Honestly its up to the players to defeat that kind of mindset.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

You shouldn't need every single class leveled to experience end game content.

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This is directly a cause of the armory system LOL.

What a joke OP, so mad he can't beat ifrit.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I'd rather get an add-on that I can download in five seconds then take 3 days of my life grinding a job i'd rather not level, in WoW there are no subjobs you just have your job and you do your job... In XI there was one subjob cap it was perfect.. XIV every job is available for your use!

1. Over complicating things
2. Makes you have to level every job to not hear bitching from your groups.

Conclusion : BS

Btw i've killed ifrit close to 8 times, i've done most of endgame content, i'm midcore, and I still think this is fricken nuts.

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Last I checked WoW has subjobs now...and cough last I also checked which was the reason I quit the game the Dark Knight is an everything class...

Also, um...you don't need Sentinel for the fight...it's just peeps want to beat it the easy way so they demand everyone have sentinel. As it goes...nobody is original...everyone just wants everything right now now now...might as well just give them the wow now.

If any of you people spent as much time complaining as you actually do PLAY the game you might find it more intriguing...it's story more vast and amazing...the gameplay more interesting overall...instead of reading lil blurbs about how certain peoples found their way to victory of Ifrit...why not find your own way? If you had any coordination at all you can mostly avoid everything in Ifrit battle...but alas whine here whine there...the whining never stops.

Can't wait for SE to start charging next month...the sound of sweet bliss.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Hahaha so XI people are the only ones Killed them? :P sounds like somesort of complex you have there.

btw i survived Hellfire COUNTLESS time without sentinel, sentinels makes it easy.

whats next, complain about DDs requiring cure 2s? lol

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no DD's need cure 3 and sac 3 to help mages who dont have sentinel so thye can piggy back the mage lol

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Last I checked WoW has subjobs now...and cough last I also checked which was the reason I quit the game the Dark Knight is an everything class...

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Check again. Because:

a) you're wrong about subjobs
b) maybe you mean Death Knight, but either way you're wrong about that too

This thread is even better than the other one!

Casual blowhard: "OMG XI Elitists are forcing people to level gladiator, and play only as one of three jobs appropriate for the fight. Square Enix must intervene and help me repair my shattered virtual ego!"

FFXI elitist: "No we aren't. You are being ridiculous."

Sane Casual: "Don't worry about those jerks. I killed it without Sentinel!"

Normal Person: "Yeah, it's not so bad. It is just a tough fight. I killed it as a Pugilist!"

Jealous Individual: "LIARS!!!!!!!!"

Very simply, you don't design a skill that shaves a % of damage for whoever equips it, but one that uses the player's stats to shave a proportional amount. That way, said skill wouldn't be effective enough for mages, archers and classes without the right stats. To use that skill effectively people would need specific builds with specific classes and equipment, thus making the requirements for it too inefficient to achieve for people to blindly require others to achieve them.

tl;dr: the skill's effectiveness must be stat-dependent, not absolute, otherwise it will be required by more and more content in the future or become a development roadblock.

I'm not interested in levelling ANY job. at all. SE, I demand you make ifrit weapons attainable to me.

It's an mmorpg, that doesn't mean it's a dedicated X job simulator.

If you want the shinies, earn em. the world isn't gonna fall at your feet because you're blinkered to levelling anything else. Maybe crafters should have a way to craft ifrit to death, cause they don't fancy fighting?

Also, Classist. hahaha. That's retarded.

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Originally Posted by King_Ghidra

Check again. Because:

a) you're wrong about subjobs
b) maybe you mean Death Knight, but either way you're wrong about that too

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Maybe I don't remember much about this game because it sucked away many years of my life...it rotted it in fact...

And after the fact I realized Blizzard couldn't give me anything more then the same quest over and over and over again. Story? Content? the community...ugh drama...I led a number of super successful guilds and weekly raids...I know what I'm talking about in the WoW area...and what's so great the last expansion which tons of my friends bought they couldn't even play the game more then a week they were so numb to it all.

Changing graphics and giving me more gear doesn't win me over. The bosses...hmm...they got more lame and lame and less hard and OMG seriously. I can't talk about WoW I go pew pew.

And...pause for a word to the general public.

FFXIV is breath of fresh air...maybe it's not for everyone. Maybe it's not what everyone expected...it's an MMO in it's early years...it needs time to mature. I said it from day one...people who don't know or aren't vested into an MMO during it's growing pains years NEED to not play the game till year 1 or 2.

All they do is whine here and there. Well an MMO is constantly in flux people need to know and enjoy the changes...grow and evolve with the community. Constructively criticize to make a better game...

These forums enrage me...and sadly developers look at these forums and it affects them...been there done that...

Can't wait till the monthly fees kick in so the PEW PEW community can go away and let SE do their job...and the quality of the worlds are improved and these forums especially.

There's a good way to say you dislike something. There's a proper way to address changes you want made. There's an open line of communication to share your ideas. If you state things in a fashion that are positive rather then only negative you move towards a course in the right direction. If you just spew troll hate 24/7 you just spreading hate and instead of being heard properly you have destroyed the legitimacy of what you open your mouth to do. Simply put if you can't say it nicely don't say it cause you'll just be end up a fool....

It sucks, but getting level 36 isn't that bad.

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Originally Posted by King_Ghidra

Check again. Because:

a) you're wrong about subjobs
b) maybe you mean Death Knight, but either way you're wrong about that too

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Disclaimer: At the time of writing that I was heavily in stages of feverish plague illness and my brain was not spewing coherently or the right words. I meant to say as far as WoW classes have just lost it with balance and uniqueness...the death knight...the everything you can and want to be class...the games just overly saturated.

I didn't mean subjob I meant to say the talents blend out now that give you too much powers and the distinctions of a particular class and character archetype are lost. How can you say Death Knight wasn't a horrid addition...it entirely ruined the balance of the game...

Seriously. With the new system you can go from 20 to 36 in a good day if you get someone to PL you. I took my marauder from 20 to 35 yesterday so I would know. Its not that big of a deal.

Yeah...I think I did 14 or 16 levels on conjurer in a short evening...started the day at 24 or 26 and ended up at 40. I'll have to review history...my minds a lil foggy.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

It sucks, but getting level 36 isn't that bad.

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It's not that it's necessarily bad, it's that it shouldn't be necessary to tackle endgame content, Of course, since this is only one fight and it's still a relatively young one, you can't really say that Sentinel is OP; if the Moogle Primal comes out, and the community's answer is to deploy Sentinel again, then you might have something of concern.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Disclaimer: At the time of writing that I was heavily in stages of feverish plague illness and my brain was not spewing coherently or the right words. I meant to say as far as WoW classes have just lost it with balance and uniqueness...the death knight...the everything you can and want to be class...the games just overly saturated.

I didn't mean subjob I meant to say the talents blend out now that give you too much powers and the distinctions of a particular class and character archetype are lost. How can you say Death Knight wasn't a horrid addition...it entirely ruined the balance of the game...

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Ago, you don't know shit about DKs. While they did come out as being completely OP at the start of Wrath, it evened out considerably once Ulduar came into the picture, and was a non-issue for ToC and ICC. You even saw the groundwork being laid for Cata when Blood became the defacto tanking tree for all DK tanks while Frost and Unholy were stripped of most of their useful tanking talents. On the flip side, Blood DPS was gutted in kind, and Unholy became the superior DPS raid spec while Frost made for an awesome PvP support spec.

Class dismissed.