SE Please add jump and swiming

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

That is because you ASSUME that jumping will be NEEDED to play the game or certain aspects but that's only you assuming. Do other mmos force you to use it? I think not.

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Whats the point of the jump feature if it has no use? many people who want jump want it for some strange tactical purposes.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

not having those makes that car a unique piece of crap that i wouldn't buy lol

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exactly everyone's first impression of FFXIV when it came out and the reason behind it's 5/10 and lower scores. :)

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Originally Posted by Jynx

No it means I wont be able to go to the playground if I don't use that kind of ball.

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you can go to the play ground, you just don't want to play with the ball. no one is keeping you from playing with it besides yourself.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

No, it means you simply don't play with that ball at the playground, and that analogy doesn't even work for MMOs. The ball analogy did, your branch veering off the beaten path didn't.

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So because I don't want to jump I should be exempt from a majority of the game? From exploration? Boss fights?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Whats the point of the jump feature if it has no use? many people who want jump want it for some strange tactical purposes.

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Seriously, go on youtube... google every MMO that uses jump followed by the words "gameplay" and then you will have all your answers.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

So because I don't want to jump I should be exempt from a majority of the game? From exploration? Boss fights?

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As far as this debate is going right now, the majority is us and the minority is you so yes... majority wins!

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

As far as this debate is going right now, the majority is us and the minority is you so yes... majority wins!

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Ok enjoy your jumps when they implemented and I'll begrudingly use them because I want to actually play the game.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Whats the point of the jump feature if it has no use? many people who want jump want it for some strange tactical purposes.

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Because some people want a freaking jump button. Jesus, it's like talking to a brick wall in here. Here's the course of events:

You: Why implement jump if it's pointless?
Us: It can have uses for boss mechanics.
You: But I don't want to have to jump, I want tank and spank fights that don't require movement.
Us: Even if jump wasn't used for boss mechanics, some people still like the ability to jump.
You: But it looks stupid and it affects me.
Us: It doesn't affect you because you don't have to do it.
You: But it will affect me because it will be forced on us in endgame mechanics.
Us: It doesn't have to be.
You: Why add it if it's pointless?


You are doing nothing but arguing in circles. It's been explained to you over and over why people want it. You, will never want it. We get it. You're stubborn and obstinate and think jump has nothing to offer in an MMO. We tell you how it can be used in boss fights and then you whine that you don't want to have to use jump in boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

And that is perfectly fine. However it's pretty selfish to say you don't think it should be in the game due to your perception of it being pointless when other people want it. Adding it takes nothing away from you.

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Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

I'm going to remember this post, Shipp.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

As far as this debate is going right now, the majority is us and the minority is you so yes... majority wins!

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Actually Jump was already confirmed as coming a while ago. It's just further down the pipeline. So this entire "jumping!", "no jumping!" debate is really rather redundant.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

I'm going to remember this post, Shipp.

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Please do, since I know exactly which post of mine you're referring to and if you'd actually think about it, you'd realize there's nothing ironic about it at all.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

You're stubborn and obstinate

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I think the same shoe will fit another groups foot as well.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Whats the point of the jump feature if it has no use? many people who want jump want it for some strange tactical purposes.

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the point of it is options. people want options in the game they play. if you do not like one option then you can chose another. but not having option is just asinine. and to be honest its selfish to limit options just because you do not like it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I think the same shoe will fit another groups foot as well.

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All you're doing is trolling at this point. It's been explained how jump can be beneficial and why people want it. You respond with being too lazy to use jump in a boss battle. Adding jump takes nothing away from you, whatsoever. It does add to the enjoyment of a lot of other people though.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

You think BMW will come up with a new car, with no AC, no leather interior, no cruise control, no abs, no cup holders, no electric windows and doors but be like well our car looks prettier and realistically think people will come to them? No, you offer standard feature first and then more.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

not having those makes that car a unique piece of crap that i wouldn't buy lol

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Exactly why we need jumping in the foundation of FFXIV v2.0. It is not what will makes FFXIV a success, but it will expand the basics of FFXIV to build unique features on to make it a success.

Success is rarely built from scratch, you truly something new to do that. Unfortunately, MMORPGs have been out for far too long to be called "new". That is why FFXIV needs the base foundation of every other MMO out there, so it can compete with the standards and built it's unique contents that will bring it above the ground. How can you stand above the crowd (other MMOs) without a good foundation? The only thing that could achieve is fall down, which is what happened with FFXIV 1.0 at launch. Square Enix would be really stupid to make the same mistake twice and I know they won't, they have spent 1 year on building the new base already and plan to do so for another year. Then, and only then, will FFXIV 2.0 come with out a good base which will allow to fully experience the creativity of the devs and their unique contents.

That is why, once again, FFXIV 2.0 needs jumping and swimming.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

"Immersion is subjective" - Your answer for everything... that tireless response is subjective.

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So what one person personally find immersion is also what another find? I guess all humans like and dislike the same things? We're all the same people, right?

I find programming fun, do you? I also find spending 3 days with a lack of sleep for the final push on a project the most exhilarating, do you?

I personally find eastern fantasies a lot more in depth than I do western, with the exception of Lord of the Rings, I feel more immersed in Chinese, Norse and Japanese fantasy and mythology than I do in western, you feel the same, yes? Or do you happen to find fantasies like Lord of the Rings more immersive than the events of Ragnarok or Sun Wukong (Journey to the West)?

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Originally Posted by Shipp

All you're doing is trolling at this point. It's been explained how jump can be beneficial and why people want it.

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I explained why I dislike it and why I feel it's a bad idea. I'm not trolling I'm just stating my opinion it's not about being lazy it's about how I feel the game would work best.

I don't really care what the "Majority" thinks what they actually think is actually rather up in the air despite what your small following of jumpers think. Neither of us have any real idea of what the majority of players actually want.

I don't pretend to know what everyone wants or what is best for everyone, I just state what I think is fun and some people agree with me, some don't. I'm not saying your idea is stupid I just saying I'd prefer it not to be a mechanic. I'd rather have strategic positioning rather than strategic jumps. How about both? whatever I'd still prefer no jumping I think it looks silly to avoid a uber boss move by hopping over it.

All I can do is tell people what my opinion is and tell them why.

You tell me jumping can be added
-I say I'd rather not
You ask why
-I say because it has no real purpose
You tell me how it could have purpose
-I say why I dislike that purpose
You say it doesn't have to have a prupose
-I say if it's going to be added it should at least have a purpose, but I'd still prefer it not be added for asthetic values.

You accuse me of trolling~

Yay.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

So because I don't want to jump I should be exempt from a majority of the game? From exploration? Boss fights?

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you are not exempt, you chose not to be involved. i could use same analogy because i don't want to pay for airship ride i should be exempt from exploring? boss fights that could be on air ships? see my point? just because i got a fear of heights does not mean the whole world should stay on the ground with me.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

you are not exempt, you chose not to be involved. i could use same analogy because i don't want to pay for airship ride i should be exempt from exploring? boss fights that could be on air ships? see my point? just because i got a fear of heights does not mean the whole world should stay on the ground with me.

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Using the lame excuse to justify a idea as "Well you don't have to use it" is the most lazy defense I've ever seen.

Why would someone just lay down and accept that half the game is cut off to them because of a silly mechanic? Most rational people would use it wether they wanted too or not, but somehow it's taboo to ask that it not be implemented becuase you don't like it.

People are allowed to ask for anything they want, but not allowed to ask to not have something...awesome.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Using the lame excuse to justify a idea as "Well you don't have to use it" is the most lazy defense I've ever seen.

Why would someone just lay down and accept that half the game is cut off to them because of a silly mechanic? Most rational people would use it wether they wanted too or not, but somehow it's taboo to ask that it not be implemented becuase you don't like it.

People are allowed to ask for anything they want, but not allowed to ask to not have something...awesome.

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Except like they stated, you aren't cut off from it. You're choosing to segregate yourself because you think the game should be tailor-made to your taste.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

Except like they stated, you aren't cut off from it. You're choosing to segregate yourself because you think the game should be tailor-made to your taste.

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..Which is also what the other side of the argument is basically stating, thus why we just let the developers do their thing and if they succeed or fail, it's how it is in this industry.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

..Which is also what the other side of the argument is basically stating, thus why we just let the developers do their thing and if they succeed or fail, it's how it is in this industry.

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It's really not though, because the community voted and thus it's been stated that it will be added. I don't care one way or the other, but giving the option to jump allows players who want that feature to be happy, and players who don't want it don't have to jump.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

..Which is also what the other side of the argument is basically stating, thus why we just let the developers do their thing and if they succeed or fail, it's how it is in this industry.

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As far as SE is concerned they will add it. Yoshi-P said many times he personally wants it in the game and then said that it moved to lower priority and now that we know about 2.0 it probably means it is a 2.0 feature. New engine = new possibilities.

Honestly when i saw the producer's letter and saw they wanted to add jump, i was like "this game is saved!" and was sure everyone would be thrilled, just to find out a bunch of threads in the forums begging not to add it with arguments like "it ruins my immersion!" and i'm like "it ruins your what? seriously?"....

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Originally Posted by Shipp

It's really not though, because the community voted and thus it's been stated that it will be added. I don't care one way or the other, but giving the option to jump allows players who want that feature to be happy, and players who don't want it don't have to jump.

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It is basically the same:

Side 1: "Add it because it will make the game better and it's standard with MMORPGs. I don't like feeling glued to the ground."

Side 2: "Don't add it because (insert reason(s)) and I personally don't like the feature because (reason)."

Both sides are basically wanting XIV to fit their taste.

@ OP

Yeah, sure. Why not? It'll make waiting for the airship that much more entertaining. :D

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It is basically the same:

Side 1: "Add it because it will make the game better and it's standard with MMORPGs. I don't like feeling glued to the ground."

Side 2: "Don't add it because (insert reason(s)) and I personally don't like the feature because (reason)."

Both sides are basically wanting XIV to fit their taste.

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Imagine that, both sides want something because it effect how they enjoy the game? I see nothing wrong with the statements either. It is very true though that it leads to rather circular arguements.

The only thing I hate is when someone acts like their idea is the defacto "Better" idea when in truth both sides are as right as the other, it's just a matter of opinion and tastes.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Using the lame excuse to justify a idea as "Well you don't have to use it" is the most lazy defense I've ever seen.

Why would someone just lay down and accept that half the game is cut off to them because of a silly mechanic? Most rational people would use it wether they wanted too or not, but somehow it's taboo to ask that it not be implemented becuase you don't like it.

People are allowed to ask for anything they want, but not allowed to ask to not have something...awesome.

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No one is telling you you cant ask for anything. stop twisting my post to make it seem like i am denying you anything. you are trying to deny us not the other way around. and no one is cutting off half.

I personally don't know why you would "lay down and take it" [see i can twist post to], but you chose not to by your own CHOICE. this is not a 'lazy defense' nor is this an excuse, this is a fact that it is your own OPTION. now a "lazy defense' and just plain dumb argument is, 'i don't care what the majorette wants'. your opinion has no merit or basis to back up your own moronic ideas trapped inside your small imagination, that does not see outside the box.

your trolling is becoming tiresome and your seem to be running out of material.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Imagine that, both sides want something because it effect how they enjoy the game? I see nothing wrong with the statements either. It is very true though that it leads to rather circular arguements.

The only thing I hate is when someone acts like their idea is the defacto "Better" idea when in truth both sides are as right as the other, it's just a matter of opinion and tastes.

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The fact is that they WILL add it and hopefully they will be smart enough to use it well. And i'm sure you and Jennestia will enjoy it just as much as everyone else.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

your trolling is becoming tiresome and your seem to be running out of material.

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I better fire my writers then.

Why would I or you care what the majority wants? You should be telling the developers what you think would make the game fun for you, not for everyone else. They are perfectly capable of telling the devs themselves.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

your trolling is becoming tiresome and your seem to be running out of material.

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Just stop with your trolling accusations. You obviously have no idea what trolling means.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

So what one person personally find immersion is also what another find? I guess all humans like and dislike the same things? We're all the same people, right?

I find programming fun, do you? I also find spending 3 days with a lack of sleep for the final push on a project the most exhilarating, do you?

I personally find eastern fantasies a lot more in depth than I do western, with the exception of Lord of the Rings, I feel more immersed in Chinese, Norse and Japanese fantasy and mythology than I do in western, you feel the same, yes? Or do you happen to find fantasies like Lord of the Rings more immersive than the events of Ragnarok or Sun Wukong (Journey to the West)?

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how bout you troll with a lil more emotion, or stop throwing bait around. i seriously hope your not a moderator @ ffxivcore, when you purposly derail topics to suit your opinions.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I played Ultima Online as well, it survived many years without a jump button.

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Yes. And my father used to be fine without the Internet. Your point?

Ultima Online was released in 1997 dude. Nineteen Ninety Seven.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

2011 - It is stated you're not allowed to like a video game for your own reasons, you have to like it based on standards - Otherwise you're only "fooling yourself to like it."

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Your newly edited sig only proves to us how closed-minded you are. You're stuck in the past and only your standards prevail. Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Your newly edited sig only proves to us how closed-minded you are. You're stuck in the past and only your standards prevail. Good luck with that.

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Are you the kind of guy who doesn't buy a game becausse your favorite reviewer gave it a bad score, despite all knowledge that you probably enjoy it?

I don't see the issue with having your onw standards about what is fun for you...

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

..Which is also what the other side of the argument is basically stating, thus why we just let the developers do their thing and if they succeed or fail, it's how it is in this industry.

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No it not at all and your assumption is asinine. with out jump we have NO OPTION. with it you HAVE A OPTION. see the difference? judging by all you post you probably wont.

there is only one side trying to limit them options. thus only one side tailoring the game to a single persons idea, the other side is open to different options.

course there is the third group that you forgot about, those who want a half jump that is more like how you use open does now.

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Originally Posted by irongripz

No it not at all and your assumption is asinine. with out jump we have NO OPTION. with it you HAVE A OPTION. see the difference? judging by all you post you probably wont.

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Is that really a "Option" though? Personally I don't think it's much of one. If we want to play the whole game we have no other option than to jump. So I wouldn't call it a option in how you seem to view it, we have to limit outselves to opt out of a choice.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I better fire my writers then.

Why would I or you care what the majority wants? You should be telling the developers what you think would make the game fun for you, not for everyone else. They are perfectly capable of telling the devs themselves.

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I don't care one way or the other. Though I see the addition of jump far outweighing the "no jumping allowed" crowd.

Add Jump:
Group 1: They want jump and will use it.
Group 2: They don't want jump and don't have to use it.

Nothing is being taken away.

Don't add jump:
Group 1: They want jump for whatever reason, they don't get jump.
Group 2: They don't want jump and they don't get jump.

You have now just limited one group and there is no compromise.

Funny how this fight is going on forever.

They should add it in my opinion. Can add some flavor to dungeons, some depth, and add other things from jump.

Don't care if they don't, but it'd be a cool thing to have in 2.0

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Is that really a "Option" though? Personally I don't think it's much of one. If we want to play the whole game we have no other option than to jump. So I wouldn't call it a option in how you seem to view it, we have to limit outselves to opt out of a choice.

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If it is purely an aesthetic feature, yes, it is an option. You don't have to use it.

If it is a gameplay mechanic which certain encounters are designed around, then you can be bad and not use it, or finally get used to it.

Option one is a compromise, though that's not good enough for the non-jump crowd, because they -HAVE- to have it their way. So when the compromise is reached, they complain that it shouldn't be added unless it adds to mechanics. Then they complain that they don't want it to be added to mechanics.

That's not a compromise. That's crying to get your way.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

You have now just limited one group and there is no compromise.

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Hence why this is such a big issue to both sides, it's a limitation to one side or the other. It's a matter of preference and no right or wrong side of the fence, even middle ground isn't "Wrong"