[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

I think the Archons are all off doing their things. Thancred is pretty obvious. I'm actually more interested in what Y'shtola and Krile are up to.

At least we have back all the second teir Scions in the Falling Stones now.

Yeah, I don't know where they are. Y'shtola isn't in Idyllshire anymore, and Thancred/Krile aren't in the Stones. Maybe they're somewhere strange, like Dragonhead or Fortemps manor?

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Yeah, I don't know where they are. Y'shtola isn't in Idyllshire anymore, and Thancred/Krile aren't in the Stones. Maybe they're somewhere strange, like Dragonhead or Fortemps manor?

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I'll take a look around. Seems like we all have our own ideas, depending on what we value most, as to how Heavensward should play out, anyway. ;)

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Yeah, I don't know where they are. Y'shtola isn't in Idyllshire anymore, and Thancred/Krile aren't in the Stones. Maybe they're somewhere strange, like Dragonhead or Fortemps manor?

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Did you check Matoya's cave?

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Did you check Matoya's cave?

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Nope, as said below, they aren't there. This is really odd.

Edit: Also, I just want to say, these Vath quests are pretty cute. Gobbies calling them "Walkybugs" and whatnot.
Also: "Go and pick up the damn rocks." It seems our character is quite snarky when we're not angsting or swearing vengeance on someone.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Not yet, that's next. I'll edit and report results in a few.

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They weren't there, last I checked.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

in 3.1, i saw Y'shotla on the outskirts of Idyllshire. Try there?

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I wouldnt asked if I was able to find them on the obious places, no?

First time we cannot find them. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Agreed, although Yoshida has made some comments that make it seem like 4.0 will not be following on from 3.x, so I expect 3.4 onwards to just be concluding the current plot with the Ascians/Zodiark/Hydaelyn rather than pushing us towards some new area like 2.55 did.
.

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I'd take that to just mean ' it won't deal with dragons' as well.

Serious response to this thread:

I really do believe something I think I said earlier which is that before the mother being split into what is now Hydaelyn and Zodiark it was a more complete and powerful entity. It may be for the good of the cosmos that this being is re-formed and in this the Ascians may not be entirely evil.

I do not get a "lol evil" vibe from, say Unukulhai (AKA Totally-Not-Elidibus) or Elidibus. He's mysterious and his methods are hideous from our perspective but he's also reasonable and just seems to have more far reaching agendas than anyone else. Urianger probably understands him.

Hm.

Much as Minfilia is now the Voice of the Mother might Elidibus be Voice of the Father? Zodiark is the moon so is this why he is in white?

After all in Final Fantasy Tactics Elidibus' most powerful spell is Summon Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Much as Minfilia is now the Voice of the Mother might Elidibus be Voice of the Father? Zodiark is the moon so is this why he is in white?

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This has been one of my theories for Eli for a while, him being an avatar of Zodiark. After all, at the very least, he seems to hold some position above the others - but he does not seem to be one and the same being as Zodiark, as Minfilia does with Hydaelyn, so I don't think we can directly make the comparison.

Unukalhai, I believe, is a Lesser Ascian (I actually didn't know people were hypothesizing he was directly Elidibus until I saw people posting it here, hence why I'm usually typing totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant, of course, he very definitely shares Elidibus' goals and we can use him to try to figure out what Elidibus seeks, as the 12th Lessers did for Lahabrea). I'm super excited for Cutest-Ascian's story, though, because it might just segue into a slightly more sympathizable view of Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Little offtopic.

Once you finished MSQ 3.2
Where are the ncp of the Scions? I dont find them anywhere ( Y'shtola, Thancred and Krile )

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Maybe they went their separate ways to reflect and learn?

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Unukalhai, I believe, is a Lesser Ascian (I actually didn't know people were hypothesizing he was directly Elidibus until I saw people posting it here, hence why I'm usually typing totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant, of course, he very definitely shares Elidibus' goals and we can use him to try to figure out what Elidibus seeks, as the 12th Lessers did for Lahabrea). I'm super excited for Cutest-Ascian's story, though, because it might just segue into a slightly more sympathizable view of Ascians.

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Some of the theory that Unukalhai is Ellie or an avatar thereof is that, aside from the similarity in appearance and mysterious motives and connection to Urianger, Unukalhai is a name for Alpha Serpentis. In FFT Elidibus' zodiac sign/job class is Serpentarius. It seems to suggest there is at the very least a connection between them. Servant is definitely possible.

Serpentarius is the older name of Ophiuchus the "Serpent-Bearer" so servant actually suits the names better.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

Maybe they went their separate ways to reflect and learn?

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They never disapeared before, not since well 2.55

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

They never disapeared before, not since well 2.55

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Hmm.. Well Thancred is somewhere in the Western Highlands. So Y'sholta and Krile should be at Falcon's Nest.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

snipsnip

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Oh trust me, I'm the very first person spouting that Unukalhai is related to Elidibus precisely for that reason. His name means he literally cannot be. However, I just didn't think he was directly Elidibus.

(Also, who thought it was a good idea to put Sephirot into Trial Roulette?)

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

(Also, who thought it was a good idea to put Sephirot into Trial Roulette?)

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You're lucky. I want to get Sephirot again - but I ended up getting Ravana instead. As an aside Sephirot is very cool, I think. I hope the other two encounters are just as impressive - if not more so.

As for the Elidibus theory...there's definitely a connection and I do want to see a more sympathetic view for the Ascians. I'm hoping we get the same for Garlemald too though - especially with the Emperor. I mean imagine how conflicting it'd be if the Emperor finally sees things our way but gets killed by Regula. Then just as the potential for peace with Garlemald emerges the Ala Mhigans strike and screw it up. Add a fresh succession crisis into the mix and there's a lot of potential for change.

The more I think on it the more I believe that the Ascians are manipulating Garlemald to ensure that they don't ally with the WoL because then the WoL would have the full might of Garlemald behind them.

(...and completely unrelated but I would love a 'third eye' glamour. At least if they add a new Garlean raid/dungeon there's the potential for Garlean themed gear...right?)

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

Hmm.. Well Thancred is somewhere in the Western Highlands. So Y'sholta and Krile should be at Falcon's Nest.

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They are not there.

Finally finished (most of) the story-related stuff this patch, so here are my very-late impressions.

On the whole, better than 3.1, largely because so many things actually happened. Something about the Dragonsong stuff in particular leaves me a bit cold (heh), though, maybe because the problems it introduced got resolved so quickly and simply (I was expecting the business with with the disgruntled citizens to be a MUCH bigger problem when it was introduced, see below). We'll have to see where it all goes in the end!

On Minfilia/The Anti-Tower
The AntiTower itself felt lazily implemented. Most new locales have at least some foreshadowing and buildup, but the whole "oh we just remembered this incredibly convenient research center oh it's in Matoya's cavern!" schtick really came out of nowhere. The bosses (Porrogos aside) also felt haphazard in their placement, as fun as they were to play. It makes me really torn about it as a dungeon, to be honest.

But in regards to the plot: I'm not, for whatever reason, as passionately against sacrifice as a storytelling device as many seem to be here, but it really had me wondering a lot about our Mother Goddess' goals. Hydaelyn has now had Minfilia by Her side for Some Time, and yet has never made any move to actually use this avatar to talk to us. About the only thing that makes sense to me is that Hydaelyn grabbed Minfilia when it was most convenient for her to do so, what with Flow having just been cast, and was waiting until some Appointed Time to contact us when we came a-knockin'. I don't think She's so weak that she NEEDS to use Minfilia in the Aetherial Sea, but rather that She did so to show us where our friend had gone; as much as I'm reluctant to take what She says about Her relationship with Zodiark at face value, I don't think She's a malicious goddess. Good luck telling that to our Scion friends, though. It'll certainly be interesting to see where this takes Thancred especially.

On the Dragonsong War
Much of the events in this bit had me mentally referring to it as "The Wounds Weren't Lethal!: The Patch". The Barmaid, Honoroit, Vidofnir...all of them fake-out death scares. At least I now know how Chirurgeon is pronounced (although a French friend of mine insists that the "kai-ruhjin" they used is wrong). Anyways.

I really thought that the Emmanellain stuff was going to play out differently, based on his demeanor at the end of 3.1 and some of the quest descriptors, all of which made him seem reeeeally shifty. Basically, I figured he had gotten it into his head that ending the war wasn't such a good thing and was acting to sabotage negotiations - in fact, I believed that to be the case right up until the stuff with Honoroit. I thought he'd gotten his guard to shoot the girl to incite the people to anger, his general disillusionment with his own place in his family making him care little for being a scapegoat. I guess that would have essentially made him irredeemable, but oh man, can you imagine if Honoroit had died as a result of his actions, were that the case? Instead, it's just his general incompetence, and while it was nice to get some development out of him, it ultimately didn't make all that much of an impact on me.

The Grand Melee was a really cool bit. I've always enjoyed the instanced combat setpieces of HW, but this one was especially neat, and I could see it being implemented as a form of mass PVP in the future (which I'm sure is a totally original observation on my part). The fight against Raubahn was fun, and I find myself both glad and morbidly disappointed that it wasn't a more serious development that brought us into conflict with him. That said, I'd really like to see more from the other City-States in the near future; some of Yoshida's interview comments made me think that they'd get a bit more involved in 3.2 than they did, but I guess we still have several more patches to go before 4.0, so we'll see.

And Niddhog! That whole ending certainly threw a wrench in things. I'm really curious what exactly the physical properties of this creature are. There was obviously a reason why he showed up as Estinien, and while I initially thought it to be a ploy to enrage the dragons looking to negotiate a peace, that was more than a little undermined by him turning into Niddhog at the end there. Since he used Estinien's form to do anything that required physical action of him, it makes me think that the Nidhogg Shade is really just that - a shade, projected over the possessed body of everyone's favourite Rude Dragoon. It will also be interesting to see where exactly Aymeric falls when the time comes to save or sacrifice Estinien, and honestly, I could see it going either way. Is it well-known in the game itself that Estinien and Aymeric were especially close, as was expanded on in Tales from the Dragonsong War? I feel like their history is almost certainly gonna come up at some point.

And as for the teases at the end...the Thancred one is kind of intriguing, given the Minfilia developments, but I was a bit let down by the Yda and Papalymo one. It felt a bit haphazard and tacked on. That said, that mask is interesting; a quick search around tells me that nobody seems to recognize the mask itself, so the tease must be the fact that somebody is Masking Up. I could have sworn the goggled guy among the antagonistic Sky Pirates was Ilberd, though (same scar and everything!).

This has turned into quite the post, so I'll do a separate one about Sephirot and Midas later, I think.

I agree about the Antitower feeling rather lazily implemented. It almost felt like it should have been last patch, or at least have had a bit more buildup than the one line from Krile in the Stones once you finished the 3.1 MSQ.

It's really odd. 3.1's MSQ felt really short and as if it was missing some content, but 3.2 unbalanced and almost too MSQ content-heavy. Maybe some of the Falcon's Nest events should have been pushed forward to give the Antitower and the Minfilia events a bit of extra time, as well as to give Aymeric's mural idea a bit of time to stew with the populace.

But, well, what's done is done and we (or SE) can't do anything about it now.

I actually though Emmanellain was going to sabotage things as well, but fail at it and get caught. But in the end he wasn't even that competent and the thought didn't cross his mind. Here's to hoping Artoriel gets some nice development as well, I think his issues run a lot more deeply than his little brother's.

I'm actually concerned with Thancred's ego as of late. The turn of events changed him to a bitter rugged rogue, perhaps it was needed character development and I'm curious to see where the story takes him

Three things come to mind that led me to think this:

• He became an Ascian puppet AND you had to rescue him
• Left to his own devices in the wilderness and forced to survive.
• Losing the one person he truly cared about, believed in for a cause.

He's obviously upset about Minfillia's fate, it was out of his hands and I get the impression he might disband the Scions altogether after the Dragonsong war to find his new calling. At least he takes things seriously now. This could cause a person to really question themselves and reflect on failure and weaknesses they never had to face. Though abandoning the Scions would mean he'd be also abandoning Minfillia's cause in a way but I get that he's going to want to "find himself" once this expansion is over but we'll see him again in the future.

Aymeric is a cool cat, though a bit too cool. Hope there isn't some twist where he's pulling a Light Yagami and the big reveal is that he is some elaborate puppetmaster that used the WoL to his ends, by killing Thordan, ending the war and allowing him to rule all of Ishgard without opposition. Though that wouldn't make sense, he doesn't come off as evil, but these days you can't trust anyone. Illberd would be right all along if that were the case.

Also, Urianger... what is he, what kind of role is he playing here. Double agent? He has been helpful in information of primals in ARR, but he's notably very low key in Heavensward. I get the feeling that felling primals works in the favor of the Ascians as well as the Scions, as the less opposing deities to Zodiark the better. Now I have to wait for another patch in hopes to know more, if we even get a tidbit of information. He is involved with the warring triad fights so we might get something.

I think it's definitely likely that 3.1 had at least some content cut. I actually suspect that the original plan was to have a 'The Vault: (Hard)' instead of the short duty we got instead. I feel like the whole situation involving many Ishgardians still remaining loyal to the Archbishop was meant to be a grander affair. I suppose it's possible that it may be addressed in the next set of Scholasticate quests.

3.1 in general felt really half finished, but we're past that, so I won't get started. The Scholasticate series topic of reformation also feels like it should have been covered in the MSQ, but I think SE bit off a tad more than they could chew when it came to the power restructuring in Ishgard. They couldn't fit it all into a decent MSQ release schedule, so they had to put some topics aside into side stories to make time for DRAGONS.

Hilda so far has been another victim of this. I'm hoping we get at least a little bit more from her later, because talk about wasted potential so far. This is really her time to shine.

That being said, I really enjoy the solo duties, they're good fun. Since it seems like we probably won't be getting an Aery (Hard) in the next patch or two it's probably Hullbreaker Hard, ick., maybe we can expect our inevitable Nidhogg confrontation to be a solo one? Or he gets a new dungeon entirely?

Like, say, The Boyahda Tree?

Niddy might be a trial fight. I think it would be quite underwhelming to have his fight be solable since you'd basically have to make it manageable for a solo fight and those are usually not impressive on a spectacle scale.

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Originally Posted by AstralKaos

Will add more when not so knackered - I just really need to get this off my ashamed chest...

The Grand Melee was cool... I only have one problem... and that is that I am absolutely wrought with disgust and shame over having to fight for the Ishgardian side and not at the side of my sworn nation, Ul'dah (even if them other two were there also)... digging the dagger further in was that I had to wear that armour!

To all of my Immortal Flame's out here/there, I am sorry; however, I will forgive this forced allegiance for one reason... and that is I got to fight the man himself, Raubahn, and he was awesome. /flamesalute

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This was really annoying to me as well. Mainly because I fight for Limsa Lominsa, as I don't trust Uldah any further than I can throw it (I can't... it's a city...), but also because I had to wear that stupid armor. I just got a nice Link Glamour, I've been roleplaying as "The Hero of Time Transported to Eorzea, and now they make me wear that stupid armor after begging me to help them. You want my help, I wear my green tunic!

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Originally Posted by nukemind

This was really annoying to me as well. Mainly because I fight for Limsa Lominsa, as I don't trust Uldah any further than I can throw it (I can't... it's a city...), but also because I had to wear that stupid armor. I just got a nice Link Glamour, I've been roleplaying as "The Hero of Time Transported to Eorzea, and now they make me wear that stupid armor after begging me to help them. You want my help, I wear my green tunic!

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But at there there something like a "forgive cake for players" about it. Aymeric as for an apologize if he had offended the GC leaders by using the WoL on his sight using Ishgardian colors.

As a Flame, I felt like Raubahn took it rather lightly, like a nice, professional duel. No offense taken from him. If anything, he should have taken me out for a drink. We've been through so much **** together, we deserve it.

That being said, politically not everything has returned to sunshine and rainbows in Ul'dah I'm not sure why we thought this was a particularly good idea to fight a mock battle against the GC leader of a country we were just outcast from no more than a few months in-game time ago. I felt like that was just adding fuel to a fire that had just barely turned to embers.

And yes, that glamour was hideous.

I just see that this might be a good small example but when the real battle begings with Garlemand and it will happen.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

As a Flame, I felt like Raubahn took it rather lightly, like a nice, professional duel. No offense taken from him. If anything, he should have taken me out for a drink. We've been through so much **** together, we deserve it.

That being said, politically not everything has returned to sunshine and rainbows in Ul'dah I'm not sure why we thought this was a particularly good idea to fight a mock battle against the GC leader of a country we were just outcast from no more than a few months in-game time ago. I felt like that was just adding fuel to a fire that had just barely turned to embers.

And yes, that glamour was hideous.

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Well don't forget that pretty much all the citizens in every city believed the WOL was innocent anyway and Limsa and Gridania's leaders told their people to treat you as such, not to mention after Nanamo was brought back, Lolorito had officially declared the WOL and the Scions innocent.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well don't forget that pretty much all the citizens in every city believed the WOL was innocent anyway and Limsa and Gridania's leaders told their people to treat you as such, not to mention after Nanamo was brought back, Lolorito had officially declared the WOL and the Scions innocent.

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That's true, but our entire foray in Ishgard has shown that just because the masses accept something, and just because people in power say it, doesn't mean everyone does. If there are detractors left, they have new fuel.

I guess "laying low for a while" is a hard topic to grasp for our character, though, given it's a MMO and all.

Edit:
Changing the subject pretty rapidly, but with the official lyrics to Alexander's battle theme out from the OST, I'm pretty certain Alex is capable of Tempering.

Fragments in one direction
Celestial noise detected
Delirium unsuspected
Static tuned in to reason
Time in the aether deepens
Transmissions blink uncompleted

It sounds a lot like our Echo is preventing our tempering.

Mide, what are you even doing? Better yet, WoL, what are you even doing, bringing Mide in there?

Do you know how much time had passed between the official pardon and the current 3.2 events?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Do you know how much time had passed between the official pardon and the current 3.2 events?

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Undeterminned since we are probably still in a "time bubble" (IE its still been 5 years since the Calamity).

It's hard to tell. I actually do get the feeling that more time is passing between events in 3.X than 2.X, though that may just be because of the narrative frame being more effective. 3.0 had a few time skips, which you tell via KI descriptions and we have an entire mural being made for 3.2; something that large isn't done in a week.

And within 3.2 itself, we have a grand melee. Something that large isn't prepared overnight, either, since it's a non-emergency political event with leaders present. Honestly, I'd give that at least a month, but this is fantasy, so we can shorten that to another week or two, I guess?

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

It's hard to tell. I actually do get the feeling that more time is passing between events in 3.X than 2.X, though that may just be because of the narrative frame being more effective. 3.0 had a few time skips, which you tell via KI descriptions and we have an entire mural being made for 3.2; something that large isn't done in a week.

And within 3.2 itself, we have a grand melee. Something that large isn't prepared overnight, either, since it's a non-emergency political event with leaders present. Honestly, I'd give that at least a month, but this is fantasy, so we can shorten that to another week or two, I guess?

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Personally I'd go with a couple months, four at max. A part of me still wants to think the 2.x series as a whole took a year.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Edit:
Changing the subject pretty rapidly, but with the official lyrics to Alexander's battle theme out from the OST, I'm pretty certain Alex is capable of Tempering.

Fragments in one direction
Celestial noise detected
Delirium unsuspected
Static tuned in to reason
Time in the aether deepens
Transmissions blink uncompleted

It sounds a lot like our Echo is preventing our tempering.

Mide, what are you even doing? Better yet, WoL, what are you even doing, bringing Mide in there?

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That brings some Fridge Horror into A8. Two words: Tempered. CHILDREN.

Spekaing of tempered goblin kids, Roundrox is stuck in Alexander, unconscious and being used to for the enigma codex. This could only end in tragedy, I can just tell

Oh and regarding Mide, didn't she already summon Alex before?

Oh goodness.

That brings new insight to those cheering Gobbie children in the A8 theme.

And they cheer right before the transition to the tempering lines.

Finished A8 last night! Some thoughts on that, and Sephirot's little sidestory.

On Midas
Time shenanigans! I can dig it! Then again, I really like the Alexander plot as a whole; sure, it lacks the sheer gravitas of Coil, but the threat is well-established even if the tone is more light-hearted.

That said, it's not without its plot holes. Like...what was the purpose of Mide's fake-out with the Codex piece? Obviously the Illuminati was going to figure it out eventually, and all it ended up doing was getting Roundrox captured. I have some other more specific questions related to the Alex plot, but I figured I'd find/make a separate thread for that.

On Sephirot
Always happy to see our friendly Imperial antagonists get some more limelight. I kind of wish we could have seen these thralls that were in stasis, to give us an idea of this Meracydian tree race, but oh well. The lyrics to the Phase 2 song are also quite a bit more intense than we're used to, which will certainly provide for some interesting dissection.

Some nice interactions with our little masked friend, too. I'm a bit curious as to why people are scrapping the Unulkalhai-as-Elidibus theory after this, though; I think it's about as likely as anything else, but I didn't catch anything that actively contradicted or disproved it. Maybe I just missed it though.

Also, thinking on a few other MSQ things:

I think I'd have been warmer towards the AntiTower if they had just asked Matoya about a potential solution to accessing the Aetherial Sea, and then she had revealed the existence of the Tower, instead of learning about it then going to Matoya and then her revealing it. I'm not 100% sure why, but I was really comfortable with that hypothetical, maybe because it was one coincidence rather than 2 or 3.

Also, I really think the dev team needs to start mentioning the major setpieces of its patches in the patch before, since the pace they've set for themselves doesn't allow for any buildup at all in the patch itself. Case in point: I actually have no problem with the timeframe of the peace conference/construction of the mural, but the Grand Melee, as much as I enjoyed doing it, required more suspension of disbelief. This is because the conference was part of 3.1's story, the mural goes hand-in-hand with it, and we had the time span between patches that we can infer Aymeric used to prepare for it. If the Grand Melee had been an idea that came up in 3.1, the preparations might not have seemed so one-and done. It would have also felt more natural to introduce the Grand Melee in this way; the issue of a divided, disillusioned populace did not come with the Bar Maiden's Speech, and while the Melee works well as a way of countering that, it might have made more sense for it to be something that was already happening rather than something hastily organized after the fact.

I agree, Cutest Ascian could still be Elidibus, there really isn't anything to disprove it. I've just always thought he was a Lesser Ascian servant to Elidibus. He's still Totally-not-Elidibus-or-his-servant though, whenever he's not Cutest Ascian.

I think people are looking at the scene with Krile in Azys Lla. She made a lot of assumptions that appeared to make Unukalhai uncomfortable. That makes people assume she's right, but immediately drawing that conclusion discounts Unukalhai being uncomfortable for completely different reasons like, say, instead of wanting to challenge the WoL, he expects he will have to and rather than to test his strength it's a test of his faith.

In 3.2 Minfydaelyn tells us about the cosmos and it seems there are/were a number of alternate planes, possibly with alternate Hydaelyns (the planet anyway) and Zodiarks (moons). Ascians want to tear down the barriers between the planes (they like tearing down barriers in general) and resurrect Zodiark. Every time a calamity happens, the barriers get weaker.

Based on what they tell I think this stuff is probably true:

1) We're in the original world (The Source).
2) Calamities combine one of the alternate planes with ours, possibly(?) destroying that plane in the process. Ascians call this a Rejoining.
3) The massive changes to Eorzea's landscape 1.0->2.0 aren't from Bahamut's aether or whatever, but are instead from the Rejoining that took place.
4) The Warriors of Darkness are survivors from the plane that was involved in the latest Rejoining. They're either being manipulated by the Ascians or our world's/Hydaelyn's existence is a threat to theirs.

A big hole here is why do the Ascians care? Zodiark and Hydaelyn were supposedly split apart in an age before life, so why would Ascians be motivated to help him at all? Assuming they're not just Saturday morning cartoon villains or mindless thralls/zealots, Zodiark has to have some redeeming features or Hydaelyn has to present some threat to them. What do they get out of it if Zodiark wins? Maybe with their power to break down the barriers between souls, Ascians were once all just mixed up soul goop chilling out inside of Zodiark/Hydaelyn and the split gave them individuality (which sucks compared to a sweet hivemind). Are they just ascended echo users from different planes (I recall a piece of text saying Lahabrea or Elidibus or someone was from this world, implying the others are not) who discovered some devious plot by Hydaelyn?

Is there a piece of information I'm missing that destroys all of this? I try to pay attention to the MSQ but some details escape me and it's been unfolding over a long time. I know a lot of this has been discussed in the thread a bit.

To be completely fair to the Ascians, the Echo is the ability to tear barriers between souls; every time you translate another language, such as when you understood Nabriales, you were resonating with their soul. The same goes with memories. So we do a lot of tearing too. It's not outside the realm of possibility that we could even use it in the same way the Ascians do, if we actually wanted to, given what we did to Thancred to confront Lahabrea.

I'm not sure if the 'originally a hivemind' is necessarily the case, but when I was but a wee Ascian fan, I once entertained the notion. Not so much anymore, because they do seem to revel in their independence. On that subject, I actually have a completely scientific interest in Ascian reproduction. Can they do it? Would it be asexual, like splitting their aether and somehow letting it develop on its own? . . .I have this same interest in voidsent reproduction, stop looking at me like that.

As for why they care - that's the big question and I think getting that answer will tell us everything. I mean, we can guess what Zodiark wants, but it would all be extrapolation based on the Ascians themselves, since Hydaelyn didn't tell us anything about His reasons. Unfortunately, they also send us mixed messages; Lahabrea and Elidibus basically tell us completely different things, and Nabriales is over there doing his own thing trying to bring about what He wants too.

And yes, Nabriales is the one who says Best and Second Best Ascians are "of this world," hence them not being bound by the same limitations as Nabriales is - namely, being unable to enter the Stones.
The SMN quest also gives us the possibility that Lesser Ascians might be ascended Echo users (but really doesn't tell us anything more than that; what a tease of a quest, but it was wonderful.)

You also get a like because you amused me. I know you're purposely poking fun at me with the hivemind bit and I am totally okay with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

That brings some Fridge Horror into A8. Two words: Tempered. CHILDREN.

Spekaing of tempered goblin kids, Roundrox is stuck in Alexander, unconscious and being used to for the enigma codex. This could only end in tragedy, I can just tell

Oh and regarding Mide, didn't she already summon Alex before?

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She did. And it went horribly horribly wrong.