Whats with people hating F2P?

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

It is shame that there are no longer MMOs (also no upcoming MMOs if I haven't missed something) that give you access to EVERYTHING in exchange for monthly subscription. No cash shop, no bonus services etc. I think that every MMO is slowly going into F2P model (simply because it is much more lucrative) and no matter what Yoshi says, when SE decides F2P model will make them more profit, FFXIV will go into F2P too.

They just need to find out the right mixture of stuff that would yield enough money (in cash shop). So far they tried only vanity stuff, but they will definitely try to cross the line a few times in future.

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Even solo rpg have cash shops. -looks at dragons dogma- And fighting games -looks at all fighting games-
I miss the days when you bought a game and it was the full game. (for $30-$50) now we pay $60 for 60-80% of the game the rest being DLC or cash shop stuff.

Correction Sqaure Enix does fall under a Holding company and is publically traded. But it is owned essentially by itself. (SQUARE ENIX HOLDINGS)

I can assure all of you FFXIV will never go free to play. Unless something has changed Square is not driven by a board of public investors. This is why the game has such great customer support. Also, Square is a very smart company and they know if they ruin the Final Fantasy franchise essentially they are out of business. Read up on how making such great games like ff7, ff10 raised the bar so high lead content developers where literally working themselves sick to meet expectation. My brother worked with a Final Fantasy 10 contributor that had to quit the business to regain his health. YOSHI and his team I assure you work around the clock and literally live FFXIV. Lastly this is also the reason FF games take forever to develop, Square really really tries to make groundbreaking enjoyable games. All of our demands for sure weigh heavy on these guys and girls. But they have to make money while developers completely throw their lives at the work.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Even solo rpg have cash shops. -looks at dragons dogma- And fighting games -looks at all fighting games-
I miss the days when you bought a game and it was the full game. (for $30-$50) now we pay $60 for 60-80% of the game the rest being DLC or cash shop stuff.

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The days where we bought an expansion pack that contained almost as much content as the main game is long gone now unfortunately with microtransactions in everything, there is one developer who I trust more than anyone else though, and that would be CD Projekt Red. The Witcher 3 is my GoTY, packed with content, amazing side quests and storylines, okay gameplay, amazing world building, etc. All that for $60, and they recently released a mini-expansion pack for $10 that brought in 15 hours of content, with an amazing quest line. That's right, $10 for all that. What does $10 get you in FFXIV optional purchases? Not even a recoloured mount.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The days where we bought an expansion pack that contained almost as much content as the main game is long gone now unfortunately with microtransactions in everything, there is one developer who I trust more than anyone else though, and that would be CD Projekt Red. The Witcher 3 is my GoTY, packed with content, amazing side quests and storylines, okay gameplay, amazing world building, etc. All that for $60, and they recently released a mini-expansion pack for $10 that brought in 15 hours of content, with an amazing quest line. That's right, $10 for all that. What does $10 get you in FFXIV optional purchases? Not even a recoloured mount.

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$10
gets you... a fantasia potion or 10 dye pots or 2 minions or 3 outfits.

And don't even get me started. I am a big "the sims" player that game typically cost $20-$30 with expacs costing $10 which added new zones, 1000 new furnashing and 100 new outfits for each age and gender. as well as 10 new interacions.

See, Spiral Knights would've been a really great game if they didn't make it so you were limited to playing like maybe 5 or so (really short) dungeons a day, and forced you to buy Mist Tanks in order to play more. And while most claim its not 'forced', as you can earn extra mist in-game, its a long, painfully tedious process which honestly isn't worth the extra hour or two you gain. Also you're limited to two weapon slots, the other two you have to buy upgrades for- the two usually is not very sufficient in dungeons which rely on a rock-paper-scissors type system where there will always be at least one enemy that you'll do crap damage to.

The misconception here is free to play doesn't mean free. Its all foreplay and no rodeo till you give in to demands.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The days where we bought an expansion pack that contained almost as much content as the main game is long gone now unfortunately with microtransactions in everything, there is one developer who I trust more than anyone else though, and that would be CD Projekt Red. The Witcher 3 is my GoTY, packed with content, amazing side quests and storylines, okay gameplay, amazing world building, etc. All that for $60, and they recently released a mini-expansion pack for $10 that brought in 15 hours of content, with an amazing quest line. That's right, $10 for all that. What does $10 get you in FFXIV optional purchases? Not even a recoloured mount.

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I was actually surprised that Heavensward was a full game in itself - I was fully expecting them to go XI style and dribble out the story over the course of a year. I mean, SE is still doing that with HW, but the base story in Heavensward wrapped up pretty neatly with the exception of Estinien and Nidhogg. With Chains of Promathia, the most beloved expansion of XI, we got the Promyvions - three level 30 capped fights - and then had to wait three more months for Ouryu.

Imagine if Azys Lla was only unlocked after forking over another $10. Imagine if the Diadem was a DLC add-on for another $20. That is what F2P or B2P companies would have done.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Imagine if Azys Lla was only unlocked after forking over another $10. Imagine if the Diadem was a DLC add-on for another $20. That is what F2P or B2P companies would have done.

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What makes you think that? SWTOR charges for expansion packs and you get the entire story of that expansion, Guild Wars 2 charges for the expansion and you get all the expansion content, and unlock the living world content for free as long as you do it within the first 2 weeks I believe. Asian MMOs? Sure, but asian MMOs are nothing but garbage cash grabs 90% of the time anyway. They're created quickly to make as much money as possible, keep it on life support, and then shit out their next game, then sell the licenses to western publishers like Nexon/Aeria Games.

There is nothing "Free" in the world didn't your parent teach you that? Whoever offers you something for "free" always lying and it always comes with "terms and conditions" and extra charges that may seem optional but they aren't really. I play this game because ITS NOT F2P. I could play one of hundreds Korean F2P crap mmorpgs if I wanted F2P. Companies exist only to generate profit and nothing else. I prefer a more honest approach with customers. I want your money and I charge XXX for my product. Unlike F2P that always comes with many catches and in reality it's only free to login and watch the scenery but not really "play" with all those limitations.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Even solo rpg have cash shops. -looks at dragons dogma- And fighting games -looks at all fighting games-
I miss the days when you bought a game and it was the full game. (for $30-$50) now we pay $60 for 60-80% of the game the rest being DLC or cash shop stuff.

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And the addons you could buy at the time gave you way more for your money. You payed some extra and got an expansion that added to the game, rather than fill in the missing holes or give you just one thing. Things like SC: Broodwar or Diablo's Lord of Destruction adding a whole new chapter instead of a one piece of gear. FPS expansion packs added whole new episodes with multiple levels instead of a single map for $9.99.

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Originally Posted by Zazriel

developers completely throw their lives at the work.

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This is more true than I believe most people could fathom.

Game development, particularly of large projects is brutal and results in extreme levels of burnout and employee turn over, not to mention that many times once a game is shipped, you get fired and have to go find another job/project to work on.

For example, when I was working on a certain MMO, there was a period lasting months (I think I stopped keeping track after about 3 months) where I was on average putting in 100+ hour work weeks (salaried so no overtime pay). I would work until like 3-4 am, go home and maybe get 4 hours of sleep and then get back up and go back to work. The creative director I worked with literally began sleeping on the small couch next to his desk so he could save time by not going home.

This is often times how dedicated and hard working developers can be, torturing themselves day in and day out to the point where they are actually harming themselves just because they really really care about their work and creating an amazing game.

It's easy to sit behind a keyboard, screen and the anonymity of the internet and criticise other people's work that they have passionately poured their lives into, but more people should really pause and reflect on what it is like for the other person before passing snap judgements.

In fact I would go so far as to say that people should just do this in general to others, no matter who or what occupation they are in. The world could sure use the extra understanding and compassion.

Lastly, I'm not trying to say that people shouldnt question or voice concerns or preferences about things, they most definitely should. However, when providing criticism, try to make it constructive and avoid being a jerk about it.

Like some have said there's no such thing as Free to play, its free or its not. I have no grudge against free games, however the vast majority now days are either cheaply designed, poorly beta tested, locked out most of the paid content or is unplayable unless you pay out for in-game currency, items, addon's, no pop ups, etc. A down side to F2P on a MMO is the consistency of updates, quality/new content, maint etc.. Some titles like Guild Wars can do it well and still make/run a good title. Other folks will half-ass a product on the idea of making back more $$$ on what should have been included content than what the actual game would be worth. The bad thing with most developers moving toward the F2P is they will make almost any game a free download or charge full current retail value based on other titles. While hoping you'll pay more for it as time goes on. That is what most folks don't like about F2P.

There's so much potential to gauge the customer and justify poor service because its free. Even if they used Ad ware and you paid for Ad free. Who is running the ad service and will it backdoor viruses and spyware just because its installed and you paid for a code to disable it? With a paid service you're hopefully getting dedicated service, quality software, functional to decent game play, and not pay extra to access content you already paid for.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

This is like a textbook example of a slippery slope fallacy. There's no proof to show that SE intends to ever add anything but 100% cosmetic content to the cash shop, and in fact they've said multiple times that they're going to be keeping it that way.



The thing is, giving 1 or 2 extra retainers to every single character on every single server would surely add up to more space than only adding for those that are willing to pay for the service. Think about how many people have alts - I doubt that very many people subscribe to extra retainers for each alt (if they subscribe to retainers at all, since you can use alts and the FC chest to list and/or store extra items for you). Don't get me wrong, I'd like more retainers too. It would give me even more market presence than I already have. The only problem I'd have is keeping a supply of venture coins on hand. :3



I don't see how glamour items and mounts are "disgusting" but that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. To me, the only types of things that would make the cash shop intolerable would be if they affected actual game stats, exp gain, or access to areas.

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Pretty sure all your characters have access to your full amount of retainers you paid for. They're not a 'per character' service.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Unfortunately, people have a huge aversion to subscription based MMOs despite it being proven they actually cost less in the long haul because many people will eventually succumb to temptation and buy things from the Cash Shop. Everyone starts by claiming they would never pay real money for that stuff. Until that one item they've really wanted appears. Then it's "Okay, it's only one item." And then...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7...r8duo2_500.gif

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Nowadays, I prefer to refuse to pay for stuff in the cash shop while I see how the game plays for free people, then I take a look at their monetization methods.
My analysis of the monetization will determine if I buy anything, or if I even continue to play.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Pretty sure all your characters have access to your full amount of retainers you paid for. They're not a 'per character' service.

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Hmmm, do they? I don't have an alt high enough level to check (I started making one but got bored doing the early story...)

So far I've only ever found one F2P game that has good gameplay, updates often, and has everything, (baring cosmetics), available in game without having to pay for it. That game is Warframe. Even then though, with this being the absolute highest quality game I have ever played that was F2P, it does have frequent bugs, (due in part to them devoting their limited resources to adding content as much as bug fixes), and is borderline pay-to-win in that by spending money you can get equipment FAR faster and upgraded quicker and more often than players who play for free, as well as not having to discard old equipment to make room for new gear. Again, easily the best F2P game I've ever experienced in terms of how the "free" aspect is handled, and in terms of quality in general, but still nowhere near the level of quality that you get from a subscription based game......

Frankly, while I won't necessarily quit flat out if XIV becomes a F2P game in the future, I will look at it as very dark times being ahead. As is the budget that the team works with is absolutely abysmal. I can't imagine what kind of cuts it would be getting if it didn't millions of people paying that fee each month, or what level of content we'd be getting. As is, they have some freedom to experiment with new ideas such as Verminion and the Diadem to try and keep players entertained, but for a F2P model to work, they'd have to focus almost purely on trying to bring new players to the game or convincing them to pay for extra content. F2P games and quality simply don't go hand in hand, because while they're profitable to an extent, they're also not concerned with player retention as much as catching their attention for long enough to get them to buy something....

I'm completely against a game going F2P unless the number of active players is just so low that the company can't even keep one server running. Given that we have so many servers as is that have restrictions on them just because there are too many active players, I really don't see that happening anytime soon....

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Originally Posted by DCILuther

-Limited Retainers and/or retainer space
-Limited Market sell space

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/check
/check

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Originally Posted by PawsTheKitti123

Like, they say theyd quit if it was.

Why? You like spending loads of cash and wasting money every month/two months/three? I hate it. Its a waste but I do it because I like the game.

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Yoshi P clearly stated the game will Never go F2p. it will be shut down before it ever happens. heck look at FFXI its still P2P after 14 years

I would go back to this game in a second if it was F2P. I don't get the hate either. I quit because with all the lockouts and timers it already felt like playing with an energy system like a free Facebook game, but with no options to get rid of it. I was paying for the game to halt my progression instead of paying to speed it up. Absurd.

I would rather have exp boosters and stat potions and lvl60 characters in the cash shop (none of which affect my game experience) than exclusive content that my sub won't get me. Cash shop was just the tip of the iceberg though.

Someone earlier talked about having to buy ever piece of content separately and I don't know how much it would be worth (although I can control myself and never spent a cent on a f2p game, so I'm not worried about that), but considering I don't care for PvP, Fisher, crafting classes that don't provide glamours for healers, or savage raids, it would probably end up being financally wiser to just buy what I like to do + spend some money to get rid of lockouts than subbing for months to farm the same content for tokens/rare drops. Definitely more fun, becuase I would focus on what I actually like to do (especially when it comes to crafting).

F2P gets my vote!