Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Let's be real here, if we go in get a message, drop, and demand a show of tokens and 8/8 people show them, well then someones obv lying. Beyond that the chances of the OP's suggestion getting implemented are small for what should be obvious reasons. So you will either proactively weed these people out when the message pops or deal with them there. That's on you. It's a non issue for me. If the people can't be bothered to take ten seconds to actively show they have the achievement then they can find another party.

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Ah so your against the system working with you to create easy solutions then.

We'll agree to disagree then.

Once everyone joins the party, put in the party chat what exactly are the rules.
If you make it clear that your group is a farm party, every player must have multiple clears, and this is not to get your first clear, then you should be set.

If someone does join for a clear, you report them to the GM. If you have evidence that your rules for the party were explicitly stated in the form of party chat, and the new player still refused to leave, then you have a case with the GM.

Or... you could just block every player who comes in for a clear. Never have to worry about them again.
Requiring an actual clear to use the party finder is a bit unnecessary. Besides, I've found plenty who know their role in the fight, but the rest of their party sucked, so they technically didn't have the clear. But perform optimally in farm parties.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Let's be real here, if we go in get a message, drop, and demand a show of tokens and 8/8 people show them, well then someones obv lying. Beyond that the chances of the OP's suggestion getting implemented are small for what should be obvious reasons. So you will either proactively weed these people out when the message pops or deal with them there. That's on you. It's a non issue for me. If the people can't be bothered to take ten seconds to actively show they have the achievement then they can find another party.

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Only your suggesrion is a work around that wastes everybodies time and the amout of clears you get. Where as if you have the option in PF, no ones time is wasted. I have better things to do, both in game and out of game, than to play whodunit with freeloaders. It is a rather simple suggestion to a, at least on my server, common issue.

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Originally Posted by Voldemort

Requiring an actual clear to use the party finder is a bit unnecessary. .

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Please read the OP, she is not requiring a clear to use PF. She wants to have the option for setting up farm parties in PF.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Read the thread or don't bother posting.

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Did you even read what you commented on, or just see two words and replied to them?

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Not one of them is a work around to showing you achievement on your profile when when everyone shows a token and we are still getting the message.

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"I'm on PS3."

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Let's be real here, if we go in get a message, drop, and demand a show of tokens and 8/8 people show them, well then someones obv lying. Beyond that the chances of the OP's suggestion getting implemented are small for what should be obvious reasons. So you will either proactively weed these people out when the message pops or deal with them there. That's on you. It's a non issue for me. If the people can't be bothered to take ten seconds to actively show they have the achievement then they can find another party.

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Right, and therein lies the problem. You end up just disbanding the party because one asshole decides it's cute to waste everyone's time and won't speak up when we ask who's new. Sure we could go in there and pull and see who fails at the first two mechanics over and over, but again, that's a waste of time. Having a clickbox option in Party Finder avoids the problem entirely.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

I have better things to do, both in game and out of game, than to play whodunit with freeloaders.

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Yet you are here, wasting time on the issue, and doing so in futility because the suggestion isn't going to happen. The fact of the matter is a clear doesn't mean a successful farm regardless which makes all of this moot because bad players get carried. ESPECIALLY on Jenova. You will get a lot further enforcing performance standards against all players regardless of clear than wasting time weeding out people who haven't cleared if your conditions are clear and farming.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Right, and therein lies the problem. You end up just disbanding the party because one asshole decides it's cute to waste everyone's time and won't speak up when we ask who's new. Sure we could go in there and pull and see who fails at the first two mechanics over and over, but again, that's a waste of time. Having a clickbox option in Party Finder avoids the problem entirely.

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And then others drop party as well, so now you have to find more replacements. Hell, sometimes I see people drop as soon as the bonus message comes up.

Just kick the newbie out, problem solved. This option would def. feel like harassment and many people would use it to block newbies. But honestly ? I dont give a damn fuck. Now ay SE would ever implement this and block new guys from content, cuz people want it. They'd quit game = loosing money. Deal with it, simple as that. This whole topic's a big joke tbh

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Yet you are here, wasting time on the issue, and doing so in futility because the suggestion isn't going to happen.

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Waiting on dps queues. And yes I consider this less of a waste of time than hunting down people who join PF farm groups without having it on farm. And its obvious that having a clear does not guarantee a competent player, everyone knows this. Who thinks in absolutes with any of these suggestions?. But that player has been through the fight and is more likely to know it. The simple fact is, you can have a one click option that saves a lot of peoples time, or you can enjoy playing detective, again, and again ,and again.

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Originally Posted by Choko_TS

Just kick the newbie out, problem solved. This option would def. feel like harassment and many people would use it to block newbies. But honestly ? I dont give a damn fuck. Now ay SE would ever implement this and block new guys from content, cuz people want it. They'd quit game = loosing money. Deal with it, simple as that. This whole topic's a big joke tbh

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Read the last two pages on identification of the "newbie". Then we can talk.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Yet you are here, wasting time on the issue, and doing so in futility because the suggestion isn't going to happen. The fact of the matter is a clear doesn't mean a successful farm regardless which makes all of this moot because bad players get carried. ESPECIALLY on Jenova. You will get a lot further enforcing performance standards against all players regardless of clear than wasting time weeding out people who haven't cleared if your conditions are clear and farming.

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Your right, SE wont change anything so we should just lay down and accept anything that is given to us....

This wouldn't be the ultimate end all fix for something like this. I would however prevent those who want to take advantage of a party that is more likely to know what its doing for selfish reason. You have yet to provide an argument as to why this is a bad idea outside of extravagant methods that are in place now (which are inefficient) and they won't change it because they are SE.

If you can concoct a truly valid reason why this is a bad idea I'd be glad to hear it. I'm sure you'll get a much better response that way.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Did you even read what you commented on, or just see two words and replied to them?

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I read two words and replied to them because duty finder shouldn't even be mentioned and isn't on topic. :P

Edit: if you were being sarcastic, apologies. It's hard to tell who is being serious and who is completely ignoring the thread and finding any way to argue against it.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I read two words and replied to them because duty finder shouldn't even be mentioned and isn't on topic. :P

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I think, or at least I hope, he was being sarcastic with what came after.

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Originally Posted by Choko_TS

Just kick the newbie out, problem solved. This option would def. feel like harassment and many people would use it to block newbies. But honestly ? I dont give a damn fuck. Now ay SE would ever implement this and block new guys from content, cuz people want it. They'd quit game = loosing money. Deal with it, simple as that. This whole topic's a big joke tbh

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I will repeat myself for maybe the 10th time now? There's no way of telling who is new until you've entered and observed the players and have seen who is messing up, which is a massive waste of my time and everyone else's who is trying to farm. Please explain how it can be used for harassment? This is OPTIONAL and would only be used for farms. You'd have to have the clear in the first place to be able to use the option. And as I've said AGAIN, Square aren't against the idea when a party finder setting for experienced players only already exists and just can't be enforced.

Honestly, they should just removethe pf requirement. People already avoid learning or clear parties like the plague, and I can't really see this doing anything other than making such parties even more non existent.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Honestly, they should just removethe pf requirement. People already avoid learning or clear parties like the plague, and I can't really see this doing anything other than making such parties even more non existent.

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There is a nice fellow on Jenova who has been running BEX clears since it came out. I wish there was some kind of a commendation system for people like him.

Geeeez! This thread is on fire!
/bump

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Honestly, they should just removethe pf requirement. People already avoid learning or clear parties like the plague, and I can't really see this doing anything other than making such parties even more non existent.

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This is untrue. People will help others and they do all of the time. I could give plenty of examples in my own experience of people joining my Ravana Ex learning parties purely to help out. The issue comes when people expect others to help them or carry them through content when others are trying to do something else.

http://i.imgur.com/wZMhRxc.jpg

A Thornmarch Ex party I helped the other day. What's funny is only two of them admitted they were new which only furthers my point. And yes, they were completely new and we wiped many times, they didn't know the fight and just 'not have the clear'.

Sometimes, the "Newcomers" do better than the farmers, because the farming are trying to do stuff different, while the new player focus on getting the mechanics done.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Sometimes, the "Newcomers" do better than the farmers, because the farming are trying to do stuff different, while the new player focus on getting the mechanics done.

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'Sometimes' is the key word here.

I can understand what is annoying. I remember going into a farm party for T9 months ago, the group was really nice except 2 guys. I never solohealed the fight before that night and the other healer kept dying until the moment I chose to leave him dead, and one of the 2 monks almost wiped the whole party more than once ; and even though they were newbies (achievement at the end of the fight) they didn't say a word even if the PF was stating "Farming - experienced only". MNK got the weapon after our messy clear. He left right away with a "thanks" that felt like a middle finger :/
It happened more times than I can count, with every single turn I farmed, with EX fights (Titan & Ramuh were the worst) but since you can never tell who is new to the fight when you enter it, you can't kick until everyone dies and leave the fight, or when you clear and carry them.
The problem here isn't about farming groups being useless, it's just about avoiding conflicts and dishonnesty.

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Originally Posted by Yarukiba

...snip...

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You have to play bad guy, and guy without clear will leave or tell.

Message that somebody is new.
You: What the hell?
You: WHO?
You: OUT NOW!!! EVERYBODY!
Some random guy: I have million clears...*starts to linking weapons*
You: I am going to check achieves. This is ridiculous.
(at this point lier will leave or say: oh i didnt read that this is farm party bla bla bla ...and leaves also)

Also there are players with clear/achieves but still not capable to farm eg they bought it or get carried. You have to deal with them also. Kick them blacklist them, replace them as fast as possible. There is no need to wipe 2 times because somebody is bad. Tell them: What are you doing? Why you died? 1 more mistake and you are out... Dont worry to replace them. If other sees that you have leadership of party in your hands they tend to stay even you kick or replace somebody, but just dont waste time with many wipes because all people will leave.

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Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

You have to play bad guy, and guy without clear will leave or tell.

Message that somebody is new.
You: What the hell?
You: WHO?
You: OUT NOW!!! EVERYBODY!
Some random guy: I have million clears...*starts to linking weapons*
You: I am going to check achieves. This is ridiculous.
(at this point lier will leave or say: oh i didnt read that this is farm party bla bla bla ...and leaves also)

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This is all a huge inconvenience for something that can very easily be solved with the party finder setting. This isn't just one time people do this, it's almost every time a farm party is made.

I think it's extremly rude of newbs to even join farm pts IF the comment section CLEARLY says "No bonus/newbs". As of late I have noticed that not all players even read the comment section in PF, they just join as long as it says "FARM"

It's a totally different story if they've asked the leader of the party that can they join and leader asks others in the party if it's ok. But when I join farm party, I expect it to be farm. Not a "teach us how to win this".

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Originally Posted by Naliee

I think it's extremly rude of newbs to even join farm pts IF the comment section CLEARLY says "No bonus/newbs". As of late I have noticed that not all players even read the comment section in PF, they just join as long as it says "FARM"

It's a totally different story if they've asked the leader of the party that can they join and leader asks others in the party if it's ok. But when I join farm party, I expect it to be farm. Not a "teach us how to win this".

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I couldn't agree more, I had someone join the other day with a bonus. He messed up to something really silly (which an experienced player wouldn't do) and he said 'sorry, I didn't even read the PF, I just joined.' I let him stay anyway and of course when we cleared he left.

Bump! Thanks for the support. :)

The amount of hours wasted, thanks to inexperienced players advertising themselves as competent.

I do not have a problem with inexperienced players, and as you say am hugely open to help, as such i join kill groups and practice groups to help out, but never have i joined a group expecting a carry.

I personally think the PARTY FINDER could use more customization, to better filter and present parties.

1) set a tag filter for people to look for a party: "newcomers welcome" shows only parties with "newcomers welcome" set. I would like this because it is hard to find groups in all the "sell content" or "farm party" groups.

2) add more filters such as "farm party" or "experienced" so party starters/group leaders can really customize what they are seeking in terms of group members.

3) use tags to filter members: if a party is set to "experience" a first timer can't join unless invited.

4) increase the text limit of "looking for group" and "party finder" comments (even ff11 search com were longer)

5) make a secondary tab for party finder for "looking for party" players, so players can set that they are looking for particular content, under said tags. Would help those wanting a party but not interested in running one.


Those are just some suggestions for party finder, which i hope some if not all are considered to help improve party finder.

Personal thoughts on replies to the thread:

First off to those who mix up duty finder with party finder, I think you guys should slow down and read a thread before commenting, kinda silly that you guys/gals/etc even mixed them up.


Anyway, I took the time to read the thread not once but twice just to make sure I understood each reply. Those against the idea are using weak arguments, and assumptions there is nothing wrong with adding more filters or customization to PARTY FINDER.

Also to clear some stuff up, players have alots of different reasons they wish to not start a party.

Not everyone whats the resposibility of being a party leader.
People are shy and unsure how to start/run a party.
They are new to mmo and would join a party then start one.
They have a social disoder (like austism) that gives them anxiety when put into a position of running a group.
Have had bad experiences running a group as the other members take over and don't listen to the leader.

Which means they join the groups for the content they looking to do. I have played on Excaliber and Tonberry, and alot of cases party finder is filled with "farm parties" after the first day of content. If you get to the content after the first day, you're "S.O.L" in joining a learning/clear group as they don't exist. That being said, though i do find it rude to join a "farm group" as a first timer, but it is not that easy as again "learning groups" don't exist after the first day. I say this because the first timer joining a "farm" party is not always looking to be handed a clear, but simply wants to do the content.


We as a community should see thing from both sides, as there two sides to everystory. Kicking a person is one thing, going as far as to blacklist a person for joining a party is pretty rude, and unnessisary, as the leader was just as much at fault for not communicating.

Which goes into the last thing I wanted to say, which is communication is 100% needed in forming a group. Saying hi and getting to know your the members helps build a better community on each server. Talk to members and ask what experiemce they have with the content goes a long way to promote smooth runs. If players don't want to communicate simply kick them as it is your party, you set the rules.

You need to enforce your party rules if its a clear group, say the intent and how long or how many tries a person is willing to do till a clear is had. If its a farm group you need to communicate to make sure everyone has the clear, don't accept genaric replies like "we wiped at 1%". Make sure everyone is onboard with the stratagy you use. This is all simply stuff that takes no time to do.

Azazua_azura, thanks for your response and support :) I agree that people need to communicate more, but I still think the reasons for not forming their own clear party are not a valid reason to be rude and join a farm. They could ask how to create one if they don't know how, and if they don't want the responsibility of being a leader, that doesn't mean they should ruin someone else's farm party as that's selfish. If they have a social disorder, they could still /tell the leader and explain that to them instead of rudely joining. Most leaders would understand that :) There's absolutely no excuse for joining a farm and not saying a word if you don't know what to do.

I agree with all of your suggestions, they're great. We definitely need more filters and options. Again, thanks for the response!

Why not just ban all inexperienced players from the game?

I have no problems with more PF customization options. But I've been in numerous "farm" parties where everyone already has a clear that go worse than learning parties, so I don't see how this option will really change anything.

I call bs on people that say they are willing to help. That doesn't happen. I've setup numerous learning parties myself for content and every time an experience person joins, they flip out when someone dies and rage quit. I have a better chance of finding a unicorn then I do finding experience people willing to help people that haven't got a clear yet.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Why not just ban all inexperienced players from the game?

I have no problems with more PF customization options. But I've been in numerous "farm" parties where everyone already has a clear that go worse than learning parties, so I don't see how this option will really change anything.

I call bs on people that say they are willing to help. That doesn't happen.

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I posted a screenshot of the 7 other players I helped in duty finder who got their clear and didn't have a clue what they were doing. I didn't know any of them. Stop making out people don't help because that's ridiculous.

It's not just about the farm party going well. It can go great with a new person. What about when that new person gets their clear they wanted and leaves? Better yet, gets the drop everyone is farming for and leaves?

Plus it's a rare occasion when a completely new person knows what they're doing AND admits they're the new person AND stays to farm in the first place.

It's not about 'banning every inexperienced player', it's about stopping them from joining something which has specific rules (which they don't meet) when they can't respect a leaders requirements. MAKE YOUR OWN CLEAR PARTY. Don't be rude.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

I call bs on people that say they are willing to help. That doesn't happen. I've setup numerous learning parties myself for content and every time an experience person joins, they flip out when someone dies and rage quit. I have a better chance of finding a unicorn then I do finding experience people willing to help people that haven't got a clear yet.

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Wish you were on Excalibur. I, and occasionally my friends, love to jump in and help folks catch up. It's a great way to find new people that may have the skill, just not the gear yet. :P

But as WL said, not everyone's the same. You just found a lot of bad 'elitists' on your server. The majority of people joining a "learning party" KNOW there is going to be wipes. Some may try to give advice badly that sounds like they're raging... but if they're joining expecting a clear, then they need to rethink their game plan >.>

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Why not just ban all inexperienced players from the game?

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Oh, and you realise this is an option I'm asking for, right? Nobody is 'banning' anyone.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Oh, and you realise this is an option I'm asking for, right? Nobody is 'banning' anyone.

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But it's the only sure fire way to keep people from crashing your farm parties. I never said I thought it was ok for inexperienced people to join farm parties. People should stick with parties they are qualified for.

Let's face facts, if you don't clear content on the first day, good luck clearing it at all. I remember doing WoD 16 hours after it was released and there were already experienced people raging at the first timers for not knowing the fight. Just the way the community is in this game: intolerant of failure.

I kidz much.
This should 100% be included. So those that want to get on with their 'gaming' experience in this 'game' can enjoy the entertaining aspect of the 'game' .....GAME!!! (I love to see someone new and share in the completion of the content) And those that unfortunately have turned this into a 9-5 chore can get on with the collecting of the pretty and shiny electronic imaginary items, I worry about those guys.....they don't sleep well after those magic bonus notices pop up. So have a heart SE and gamers, please stop making this job harder for them. Give these poor oppressed people what they NEED.... so maybe those seeking to entertain themselves can get on with things without listening to them complain and cry so much.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

But it's the only sure fire way to keep people from crashing your farm parties.

Let's face facts, if you don't clear content on the first day, good luck clearing it at all. I remember doing WoD 16 hours after it was released and there were already experienced people raging at the first timers for not knowing the fight. Just the way the community is in this game: intolerant of failure.

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Good, because people shouldn't be crashing my farm parties. That's the entire point. Your point of view seems as though you don't want this option because your only way of clearing something is to sneak into a farm party.

As I said, people do help others. You can ignore me all you like, but I know myself how many clear parties I've helped with purely to help people clear, and this is extremely old content like Ifrit or Thornmarch Ex.

The only reason people wouldn't like this option is because they want to sneak into farm parties. Period.

Thunda_Cat_SMASH, post limit so I'll reply here. How many times must I repeat myself, or are you just blatantly ignoring me for the sake of argument? People do help others believe it or not! Sure, I'm asking for this setting, because sometimes I want to do my own thing. But I actually spend a lot of my time helping out with clears and learning, which are mostly random party finders.

I refuse to believe you have never received help. If there aren't any learning or clear parties, make your own. 'Learning/clear parties are rare enough as it is,' so your logic is to not allow this setting so people can still use farm parties for their clear? Makes no sense.

Oh wow, gee. I didn't know I'd snuck into farm parties before. I make it a point to not join parties I'm not qualified for, but eh.

The reason I don't like this idea is because learning/clear parties are rare enough as is. With this, why would anyone even bother helping people get their first clear?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Oh wow, gee. I didn't know I'd snuck into farm parties before. I make it a point to not join parties I'm not qualified for, but eh.

The reason I don't like this idea is because learning/clear parties are rare enough as is. With this, why would anyone even bother helping people get their first clear?

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People need to learn to create their own parties instead of ruining the enjoyment of other people selfishly. I only cleared BisEX after a few weeks and during the times I played there was rarely ever a party, what did I do? Create one, you'd be surprised at how quick they fill up and the constant comments like "I was waiting for ages for someone to create a party". Leading a party isn't some amazing feat, anyone can do it. Step up and create your own if there isn't one.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

People need to learn to create their own parties instead of ruining the enjoyment of other people selfishly. I only cleared BisEX after a few weeks and during the times I played there was rarely ever a party, what did I do? Create one, you'd be surprised at how quick they fill up and the constant comments like "I was waiting for ages for someone to create a party". Leading a party isn't some amazing feat, anyone can do it. Step up and create your own if there isn't one.

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Funny how you guys keep accusing other people of being selfish, yet the entire motive behind this idea is selfish. I create my own PF all the time, very few actually fill up. If they do, they fall apart when someone rage quits after a wipe or two.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

Funny how you guys keep accusing other people of being selfish, yet the entire motive behind this idea is selfish.

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Perhaps it is selfish, but I'm also taking into consideration the 6 other people in my party (excluding the one newbie who joins) because as you may know, most difficult content is 8 man. I'll admit, this suggestion is rather selfish, but joining and wasting 7 other people's time is far, far more selfish. It's the lesser of the two evils so to speak. I don't even know why I bother arguing about this though, I know SE is never going to implement this because they want everyone to be babied. Oh, Steps of Faith requires you to click some buttons and man two cannons? Better nerf it!

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I create my own PF all the time, very few actually fill up.

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Has it always been like this, or just recently? The game has been rather dead, but that stands to be SE's fault. You have two options here, move to a more populated server (I have no idea if Siren is populated), or if you can't due to friends and FC members, ask them to help you. What are friends for, right? I know I'd more than gladly help a friend who needs to get through Bismarck, even though I dislike that instance more than I do Neverreap (why are tornadoes even a thing?).

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If they do, they fall apart when someone rage quits after a wipe or two.

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On a somewhat related note, this is yet another reason I hate it when a newbie joins a farm party. They get their clear, and then leave. This has happened every time without exception. Are they unable to comprehend what "farm party" means? You know, I wouldn't mind carrying the occasional newbie if it weren't for this. The worst part is, when one person leaves so does the rest. I don't understand why the FFXIV community does this, no other MMO I've played has that "One player has left, we're all doomed" mentality.