Are healers lazy or do some really live by "I only heal"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

The background of Sylphies issue was completely different than "I don't want to DPS" ;)

---

Not so different if you think about it, though (basically "I don't care if your way is more efficient and safer for everyone; let me do what I want to do!"). There are enough similarities to make her a highly amusing comparison ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolynot

I understand that some players religiously believe in the phrase, "I'm a healer so I only heal." which is fine if that's what they believe. I guess I'm just looking for answers as to why players who play like that find it fun? I've started a healer and I find it so much fun having to balance watching when to heal and deal damage in between.

---

I remember back when I first started ohh about a year ago (I quit because LIFE SUCKS) that I was playing as a CNJ to get the paladin stone, and well I was switching from Cleric stance and to it relatively nicely, but I got this one tank, who was BITCHING at me for dpsing, It was kinda funny, Not so funny when I let him get squished though...

Are healers lazy because they don't dps? Is there a group of healers that have the mentality that they won't ever dps? I read that and thought, OK, this is a much bigger issue. Maybe OP is generally new to mmos or hasn't healed enough to get why that is. Grouping healers lazy because we don't always dps when it's possible isn't cool. There are bigger and practical reasons why this is common. Basically from what I've experienced and read in these pages is that it comes down to the responsibility healers have. It's also having expectations or standards on people you don't know which is another point you missed, the Duty Finder!

Duty Finder is great, but casual players use it the most and just because you had a healer that dpsed in a instance last week doesn't mean this next one will. So that sure doesn't make anyone lazy or a fabricated idea that healers have adapted this principle to not dps simply because it's not white mage like? XD. I can personally tell you I haven't met one healer yet that thinks that. I mean, yeah, overtime the whole player base can complete harder content and noticeable quicker and more efficient but that's after a good amount of time and gear, Titan HM for example. So possibly you'll get more healers in time that dps. Just don't hold a standard and be presumptuous of random people in a mmo, don't think there's this group of healers that have this anti-dpsing treaty, and don't group healers with the word lazy. It's why this rant is here. It's a hard freakin job, ok?! X(
/endrant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mikecoby

Are healers lazy because they don't dps? Is there a group of healers that have the mentality that they won't ever dps? I read that and thought, OK, this is a much bigger issue. Maybe OP is generally new to mmos or hasn't healed enough to get why that is. Grouping healers lazy because we don't always dps when it's possible isn't cool. There are bigger and practical reasons why this is common. Basically from what I've experienced and read in these pages is that it comes down to the responsibility healers have. It's also having expectations or standards on people you don't know which is another point you missed, the Duty Finder!

Duty Finder is great, but casual players use it the most and just because you had a healer that dpsed in a instance last week doesn't mean this next one will. So that sure doesn't make anyone lazy or a fabricated idea that healers have adapted this principle to not dps simply because it's not white mage like? XD. I can personally tell you I haven't met one healer yet that thinks that. I mean, yeah, overtime the whole player base can complete harder content and noticeable quicker and more efficient but that's after a good amount of time and gear, Titan HM for example. So possibly you'll get more healers in time that dps. Just don't hold a standard and be presumptuous of random people in a mmo, don't think there's this group of healers that have this anti-dpsing treaty, and don't group healers with the word lazy. It's why this rant is here. It's a hard freakin job, ok?! X(
/endrant

---

I appreciate the intent here, but if you read many of the healer-centric threads on these forums, you'll discover that there really are lazy healers who object to using damaging abilities in group play simply because they don't believe it to be in their job description.

I don't think that these players are the majority; rather, I think that most healers who don't attempt to DPS at all haven't learned that it's possible to use their full kit. They haven't learned to anticipate and are tunnel-visioned on healing as if some surprising event were prone to happen at any moment.

As for "casual" and DF, I can't say that I agree. Putting aside for the moment how little weight the term "casual" has in a game structured like FFXIV, virtually everyone uses DF. You also don't need to be a hardcore number-cruncher or min/maxer to grasp the basics of healing in FFXIV, because it boils down to a very simple job, albeit with a great deal of responsibility. When players stop reacting to everything and start planning ahead so that they can take advantage of (or even create) safe windows to DPS, they become truly good healers. It's just not a behavior that is universally intuitive; most have to learn it. It's also not required to overgear content to make this happen, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

I appreciate the intent here, but if you read many of the healer-centric threads on these forums, you'll discover that there really are lazy healers who object to using damaging abilities in group play simply because they don't believe it to be in their job description.

As for "casual" and DF, I can't say that I agree. Putting aside for the moment how little weight the term "casual" has in a game structured like FFXIV, virtually everyone uses DF. You also don't need to be a hardcore number-cruncher or min/maxer to grasp the basics of healing in FFXIV, because it boils down to a very simple job, albeit with a great deal of responsibility. When players stop reacting to everything and start planning ahead so that they can take advantage of (or even create) safe windows to DPS, they become truly good healers. It's just not a behavior that is universally intuitive; most have to learn it. It's also not required to overgear content to make this happen, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

---

I'm not surprised that there's forums like that when there's so many people playing this game, but when I said I have never or heard healers that won't dps, I meant it in my actual gaming experience, not forums with their opinions. I usually heal but I've had my bad case of heals with others jobs just like anyone else, I don't deny that. I just personally find it a harder job to do lazy while not suffering deaths. I've seen scholars /follow tanks during trash pulls like others.

Yeah, I see your point and I think that's sound, too. So we have healers that aren't using their full capabilities, which is true, but the reasons for why vary. Not coming to the conclusion its based on laziness is great start. I mean I stand by the reasons I already listed but a huge one is that it can be hard to learn. That changing target from tank to mob is still risky and sometimes scary but exciting.

I took what OP said and based it on what was the most probably situation and reason he saw the difference in healing styles and efficiency. Was he mad at his FC and basing them? Probably not. So yeah, the conclusion I used is fair as to how he experienced it. If it came off as a difference between casual and not, I didn't mean it to be at all.

I'm a casual player, like most players and proud of it. It's just that we all use it and it shows a fair representation of how people use the jobs and abilities and for which reasons. Like Cure 3 wasn't used for a while until Titan EX and I remember seeing people use it there and saw it wasn't useless. I love duty finder and it's a great tool and I left it on the note that it's quite possible more and more people will start healing and dps because they see others doing it efficiently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saberchic

Healers should throw out some dps once they are comfortable with the dungeons. I can understand not dpsing if the healer is not very familiar with the fights, but once they are, they should help.

---

That's pretty much my stance on it as well. It's the same for every job in the game, but tanks and healers in particular have to deal with it to a greater degree.

In comparison to Dps, Tanks and Healers have to know the dungeons much more intimately to be comfortable with it. Tanks have to know practically EVERYTHING (how strong the mobs are, how many, where they are, what kind of mobs they are [ranged/physical/magic], when to use what Cd's, what is each mob's effective pull range, how should each mob should be positioned ... etc). On top of that, they have to know their own job well enough to adapt on the fly and manage aggro efficiently. On top of that comes the advanced stuff, like maximizing your personal dps, for example. The advantage they have is that they can pull at their own pace. When you see them hesitate before a pull, it's probably because they don't know the dungeon as well as a seasoned Tank.

Healers have much less to know, but they have a disadvantage that the Tanks don't have. They basically have to know how much dmg they have to mitigate, and what kind of dmg they are mitigating (ranged/physical/magical/status effects and AoE). The easy part for them is that, assuming things are going smoothly for the tank, they really only have to heal one person directly (save for Aoe's). Their disadvantage, though, is that they are at the mercy of the tank. They can't go at their pace. They have to go at the Tank's pace, and they have to put up with a variety of Tanks who may not know how to use their cooldowns as effectively as others. That can be pretty rough. So, I kind of understand when healers only heal.

That being said, when they know a dungeon, and the tank is good, they should be going beyond just healing. I get it when they're new, but they're not new forever. There's a point when they should be actively seeking to optimize their role. As long as it's not at the expense of the tank's health pool (No tank should have to pop extra CD's because of a bad healer) seasoned healers should be upping their game to match the efforts of the rest of the group... of course, that's not very high if the rest of the group is total crap as well...but still.

meh I just heal and sometimes pew pew if the tank lets me... but if the tanks pulls every mob from start to boss well I guess i'll be healing instead of pew pewing.... unfortunately I've run in the more heal heal category then pew pew category... for some reason I usually run into the full throttle dps mode tanks that don't even bother throwing up the def buffs or anything else... so all I can do is heal heal heal.... so yea either way I could care less.:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

Not so different if you think about it

---

More different than you think about it ;)

The point of the conjurer questline is to get in touch with the elements of the nature and learn to use this power for your spells.

Sylphies issue was: She never got in touch with the nature and their elements. She never learned to use this power. So she drained her own life power for casting her spells, which would kill her, like it happened to her mother before. That was Sylphies issue. Nothing else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

More different than you think about it ;)

The point of the conjurer questline is to get in touch with the elements of the nature and learn to use this power for your spells.

Sylphies issue was: She never got in touch with the nature and their elements. She never learned to use this power. So she drained her own life power for casting her spells, which would kill her, like it happened to her mother before. That was Sylphies issue. Nothing else.

---

Now let's try segregating the gameplay from the lore a little. I thought this was too obvious for bullet points, but here we go...

- Sylphie wanted to do things her way despite the fact that her playstyle was suboptimal.

- Her trainers kept trying to help her understand that drawing on elemental powers (which necessarily include spells such as the Stone series) was vital to being well-rounded and fully functional.

- She unambiguously complains that all she wants to do is heal, and none of those "other" things.

- The CNJ quest lines drop some huge anvils about the role being bigger than just heal spamming.

Not that different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynfael

- She unambiguously complains that all she wants to do is heal

---

...and the point of the CNJ questline is that she shall do that by using the power of the elements and not by draining her own life :p

Cleaning up with the unclean elements is there to show that the elements are in danger itself (but in most cases its just the lack of creativity of the designers). The aim of all that quest is a different: get your connection to the elements.

EDIT: I'm not against DPS by healers. I just want to show, that this example is completely cut out of the real context.

But in my eyes, except for hard content: As long >90% of all DPS player in i190+ do less damage than I did as noob DPS at Lvl 50 in around i120, its ok for me if a heal do just heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

I just want to show, that this example is completely cut out of the real context.

---

The cliche about agreeing to disagree comes to mind.

You aren't wrong about what Sylphie's story concerns when it comes to the whole life force bit, but I maintain that my broader interpretation remains valid and appropriate, especially when used to draw a comparison to players who similarly refuse to use the tools available to them. Not at all the same thing as being out of context. This hair really did not need to be split.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astral145

meh I just heal and sometimes pew pew if the tank lets me... but if the tanks pulls every mob from start to boss well I guess i'll be healing instead of pew pewing.... unfortunately I've run in the more heal heal category then pew pew category... for some reason I usually run into the full throttle dps mode tanks that don't even bother throwing up the def buffs or anything else... so all I can do is heal heal heal.... so yea either way I could care less.:confused:

---

This is fine too.

Tanks who do "mass pulls" are pushing the party to be better. Holding as much aggro as possible while outputting maximum Dps is the peak of Tanking and forces the rest of the Party to kick it into high gear. Dps have to kill as fast as possible, to help reduce incoming dmg. Healers have to stay on their toes with heals to keep the tank alive, and manage their debuffs/stuns as best as they can. Doing huge pulls is a good way of seeing who in the party is falling behind. If you die but the healer has plenty of Mp, then you know it's the healer. If the healer is bottoming out on Mp and the mob's not dead (or the tank has used more than one set/rotation of buffs) than the Dps are slow. If the tank can't hold aggro or fails to use debuffs, than the Tank sucks. A good sized pull always points out the weak link in the group because it forces the group to do their job to the fullest...

That being said, a Tank should NEVER do a large pull if they can't handle it. Any Tank who does not know how to use their debuffs while maintaining aggro and maxing Dps should stick to baby pulls. A Tank should also NEVER do a mass pull for the sake of their own Ego. It doesn't matter if you can handle it, personally, if the rest of the group will fall behind. It's a team effort. Trying to force the team to be better is fine, but if they can't do it than you're only slowing things down. At the very least, a tank who pulls big should make themselves aware of the average ilvl of the group, especially the healer.

I always do nothing but heal, up to the first boss of any dungeon. That gives me time to check if the Tank is capable of holding aggro, whether the DPS are good enough to not steal aggro from the tank, and most importantly, if the tank pops his cooldowns so he can survive for more than 2 seconds without healing.

Only if all 3 conditions are met will I strap on Cleric mode and start dishing damage.

Sad thing is, in the last 5 dungeons I've done only 1 run has seen me dealing damage. They were all levelling dungeons, but you'd think that by DD or AV, the tank would know what the defensive abilities are for. Healers can't heal through everything.

I have played many MMO's over the years (many more than I care to recount) and as much as I love it FFXIV has made me start to dislike it. If you solidly heal you get complained at for not doing any DPS. If you do DPS you either get in trouble for allowing people's health to drop lower than they would like (even if they don't die) or for not reaching certain DPS levels. When Tanking I just leave the healer to it, I don't understand why people feel that pressuring is a good idea.

I wonder if anyone has had a problem in which you don't DPS, as the Tank feels they don't need to dodge attacks, but then complains at you and possible even getting kicked??

I've mained healer since my Arcanist was level 30 and that has only happened to me about once in the entire 15 months I've played this game.

I've DPSed in order to make the dungeon go faster and been kicked (in Haukke's manor even though nobody died) only because the tank was scared he would die. I've been called the worst healer for trying to help tanks become more skilled.

I've also been giving commendations though too for the exact same thing. I strongly believe in DPSing as a healer as much as humanly possible. If things are still going slowly, I look at the DPS' gear. Even one undergeared person due to them leveling or being a fresh 60/50 will make a huge DPS difference.

I do not cuss them out for that though. I think the key to understanding is communication. I always say hello and I always ask the tank if what he is comfortable doing what he is doing. Until a while ago, I would do Big pulls and sometimes die but at the start of the match I would always tell them I'm newer to tanking since I don't main tank class.

I myself like stance dancing and dpsing in between healing, but if healer DPS isn't necessary to finish the fight why worry? In fact it bothers me a LOT if our DPS are so weak that I feel like I, as the healer, have to DPS to finish anything in a timely manner.

There's no need to expect perfection from healers in your random roulette for the day. And moreover, a lot of healers aren't comfortable switching, and I can see why; it can be difficult to tell when it's safe to switch with the CD on Cleric Stance - who knows what can happen in that five seconds? A healer's job is to heal first and foremost, and if they can't comfortably switch between the two, it's more important that they keep the party alive than stand around flinging Ruin and Malefic all day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elisara

I always do nothing but heal, up to the first boss of any dungeon. That gives me time to check if the Tank is capable of holding aggro, whether the DPS are good enough to not steal aggro from the tank, and most importantly, if the tank pops his cooldowns so he can survive for more than 2 seconds without healing.

Only if all 3 conditions are met will I strap on Cleric mode and start dishing damage.

---

I approach tanking in a similar fashion. I push the limits on the first pull to make sure the healer can deal with additional dmg output. IF the healer can keep me alive and the dps are killing things fast enough that I only need one rotation of Def CD's before the mob starts to drop (no need to pop additional cooldowns when the enemies start thinning out. Dead monsters can't hurt me) than I'm not worried about anything.I'll mass pull the dungeon and let the healer do whatever they want. No complaints. They can dps if they wanna, but it's not necessary. If the group is good enough to speed pull, than the Dps and Tank should be outputting enough by themselves.

You'd be surprised about the tank learning curve, though. I main tank, and I was still learning how to effectively do my job well into the 40's. There are sudden jumps in Tanking difficulty at certain dungeon levels (30 and 40, if I remember correctly).

Dps are at their best when they can perfectly balance their rotation, but it's all Dps. Tanks, on the other hand, have to balance Aggro (which includes Dps) as well as Def. Each jump in lvl expects tanks to keep up with new tactics for effectively managing their skills, but NONE of the Tank story quests actually teach the tanks how to do these things. For example, there's no tank quest that involves teaching a tank how to properly group enemies together for a Dps burn. There's also no tank quest that teaches tanks the difference between a standard pull or a ranged pull (which is a huge problem in DD or AV for new tanks). It takes a lot more practice than other jobs. There's a sharper learning curve.

In a game where every encounter, aside from the last WHM quest is resolved by dpsing down the enemy, dps will be important. You can help with it or you can't. But an HP saved is an HP healed. If some adds die faster, you have less healing to do.

Eh. I do DPS on my healer, not through some god complex that I see being thrown around, but just because it's an approved method of screwing with the party, and if I get called out for it, I just snark that they shouldn't be so quick to eat avoidable damage.

I think there is some misunderstanding here.

Generally, there are two main scenarios that need to be treated differently, imo:

1) Someone in the party is new to the content, undergeared, lagging, underperforming, some combination of these or probably something else is "wrong" with the group (save the "new to the content"). In this scenario, you can't be possibly angry with the healer for not doing dps. I'd actually advice not to dps in this case because it is not worth the risk of wiping. If you really can't help it, go ahead and apply some dots. I think this is what makes good healer a great one - to know when it is the right time to stop dpsing and focus purely on healing, even if it means you have some "spare" time.

2) Everything is going smoothly, healthbars are barely moving, everyone is properly geared and experienced and it is absolutely clear that everyone is on the same page (mostly the older content). In this scenario, it would be very hard to defend the healer who only stands there casting their heals every here and there. This is where I think the criticism is pretty fair and most likely valid.

Of course, there are exceptions to every scenario, therefor it would be wise not to jump on the healer for not dpsing instantly when you start the duty. It is very important to evaluate the situation and then, based on some observations, you can tell what case it is.

You should think twice before calling healers bad for not doing dps. Also, you should not shield yourself forever with the argument "my job is healing, this is what I do, leave me alone", imo. Your job is to contribute to the party. If it was intended for you to only heal, healers wouldn't get new offensive spells in the expansion afterall, right?

Alright. So i main Astrologian, previously Scholar. I don't do DPS, unless it's neccessary, due fact i'm afraid i won't make the Heals in time, so i don't want anyone afflicted by Negative Statuses or losing HP too much or fast, so i just sit there and observe the entire Battle, using my head and see what is happening to help and assist. I'll always push in some damage if i see everything going very nicely and safely for everyone. I'll NEVER drop my Heals to a point i might lose an Ally, so i dare not take risks.

NEVER assume someone is lazy or noob to begin with, we all have been there ourselfs anyways, so seriously quit it, yeah? Help newcomers or not so confident people to experience things better.

Okay. I've rambled enough on. Hope some of you stopped thinking rude ways and come to think a more positive ways. Been a pleasure, and first time joining the Forums, sorry for being late! Jazzhands out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucke

Tanks: Your main job is to keep aggro and maintain it. If you wanna push some more DPS out, more power to ya, just don\\\\\\\\\\'t get too fancy and lose aggro.
Healer: Your main job is keeping your party alive. If everyone\\\\\\\\\\'s okay on health, and you wanna push out some more DPS, more power to ya. Just don\\\\\\\\\\'t let anyone die when you\\\\\\\\\\'re too busy DPS\\\\\\\\\\'ing in Cleric Stance.
DPS: You have ONE job.

As long as you are fulfilling your main role, whether that be keeping aggro or keeping everyone healed, I really don\\\\\\\\\\'t care if you wanna push out some DPS, just don\\\\\\\\\\'t wipe the group because you forgot your main role.

---

if you want to be the best you can be you need to be willing to push limits and test how far you can push things like letting the tank HP drop low to squeeze more dPS.

I respect the dPS that tried to jump on Bismarck too early and dies trying to test his limits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraKarea

If it was intended for you to only heal, healers wouldn't get new offensive spells in the expansion afterall, right?

---

Healers get offensive abilities so that they can level through the game. Not so they can take up a DPS role in a dungeon - that's a side benefit.

This is actually the only MMO I've played where healers are, for some reason, expected to DPS. If the group is killing things in a timely manner, don't worry about it.

I'm so lazy when doing my experts. Soooo lazy. I'll only help with damage when the dps are derps. Otherwise the extra minute or two I shave off the clear time isn't worth the effort.

Then again I can't recall the last time I did an expert in df :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elamys

snip

---

I find it difficult to believe that WHM got 3 offensive spells out of 5 total just for leveling purposes in DW where they could level to 60 just fine with Stone II, Aero II and Holy (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, Assize reads "Wait, can't I possibly do a bit of a dps here instead of just casting medica...", imo.

Also, nobody was talking about "taking up a DPS role". If anything, you could contribute to party performance by doing a bit of DPS here and there when you see fit.

It is true that healers are under lots of pressure to do dps and that might cause people to actually play worse, or enjoy less the healing job. And as I said, this should not be the case all the time to see this as a requirement. But I think the argument for healers to do some dps when there is an opportunity should not be overlooked just because of the assumption it is a "healing" job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraKarea

Wise Kira

---

Yes. First of foremost is Healers/Supports focus on their Main Objective, which is Survivability of the Party and Buffering/Assistance for the Party. Offensive Casting is recommended as option, if you have the chance and timely manner to do so. Never pressure your Allies, but always help them with tips and some good advices so they can become better!

As Healers, our job is keep everyone alive. We can if we're comfortable doing so but we aren't REQUIRED to do so. Play whatever healer job you want and enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marcu18

As Healers, our job is keep everyone alive. We can if we're comfortable doing so but we aren't REQUIRED to do so. Play whatever healer job you want and enjoy it.

---

If they do. Then we will lose Playerbase, because we refuse to fulfill Roles, and the game becomes unplayable when everyone else does the same because "I'm not required to do so.". The mindset you must have playing as a Healer is "Do my very best and stay focused on everyone!". We'll never improve our Skills if we refuse to fulfill the demand of the Job we picked. Comfort will be if you believe you're up for the challenge, regardless how horrible things goes. Fall and rise again to retry until success has been achieved. But yes, i agree on playing whatever Healer Job you want to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jazuke

because we refuse to fulfill Roles

---

I always read fulfill roles.

But first of all the people should take a look into the mirror, before pointing with the finger on others.

Since I'm playing AST too, I'm watching others performance to decide, who is getting my cards and who not.

I'm not kicking ppl when they perform bad. I do not leave when they perform bad. I do not complain when they perform bad. But I know it.

So over the last couple of month, the overall DPS players are fulfilling their role for around 30% or less, compared to the DPS players in my static. Even the majority of tanks deal less than half DPS, compared to the tanks in my static.

Do we point on the bad DPS players? No, because you can only know about the bad performance when using "parserz".

Do we point on the bad tank players? No, because same reason as above.

Bad DPS of tanks and DSP players is not the onliest issue for healers. Also the majority of players have a movement like a tree and do not avoid damage that is avoidable. Also intelligent usage of cooldowns is mandatory to get room for DPS.

So why everyone and his mother is complaining here about healers?

I'm pretty shure: The absolute minority of players in this thread, that are complaining here about healers, are performing good for their own.

Look into the mirror. There is much more room for improvements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

fulfill roles.

---

I wasn't saying that. I was saying basically saying something like what you said, but i can't write an essay, cause i max at 1000 Words. Sorry for the confusion.

But yes. You have a valid point. But mine wasn't about "You must fulfill your Roles.". And i wasn't pointing fingers at people, so stop assuming i am. I'm tired of people thinking i'm out to make trouble everyday. I wish i could write an literal essay so explain everything in detail. And the only times i Vote a kick is if their attitude is very negative, so yeah.

And to be honest. People bash me for doing my very best, and leading me to taking a good rest from FFXIVARR, cause it stresses me out to keep everyone in tip top shape.

Honestly speaking. You play the way you want to play, but don't stop improving and practicing, cause Humans strive for becoming better in any way possible. The Role you pick is the same thing as you pick a Job in real life, exception you won't get kicked out but by Party's consent if you're not meeting up to their standards, which is mean, yes. But what can you do? In my Party and FC, we just do what we feel we wanna do. Find people who's a lot more calm and patient, hopefully won't bash you for silly reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KiraKarea

I find it difficult to believe that WHM got 3 offensive spells out of 5 total just for leveling purposes in DW where they could level to 60 just fine with Stone II, Aero II and Holy (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, Assize reads "Wait, can't I possibly do a bit of a dps here instead of just casting medica...", imo..

---

I imagine the upgrades are because of the small potency of the lower level spells.

They can't give the lower level spells too high of a potency that would make them work well at higher levels. But if you tried to level with just, say, Aero and Stone 1, it would take you ages to kill anything. It was a pretty noticeable jump when I got Stone 3 in the speed of me killing things - I just got to 60 about a week ago, so it's all fresh for me still. Spamming Holy is pretty MP inefficient since it will chew through your entire bar in a few casts and not really do that much for you.

Is it possible that they want healers to DPS a bit? Sure. Assize doing damage was probably added for that purpose, but it's also not only for damage. But first and foremost, healers are given damaging spells to progress through solo content.

I think it is a good thing to weave in some DPS when you're healing, but I don't think a healer is bad for not DPSing. And I think it's really pitiful when a party really -needs- a healer's DPS in order to kill things.

I agree with this statement. I couldn't not said it better, so i take my leave. No words from me is any better then that. I salute you and surrender this topic to you, gentlemen/ladies. Take care and stay strong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elamys

but I don't think a healer is bad for not DPSing. And I think it's really pitiful when a party really -needs- a healer's DPS in order to kill things.

---

Maybe not bad, per se, but they aren't good. A good BLM uses Apocatastasis. A good SMN uses Virus and Eye for an Eye, a good BRD uses his songs, a good MCH uses Promotion, a good WAR uses Storm's Path, a good PLD uses Cover, Divine Veil, and Clemency, a good NIN uses Shadewalker, Smoke Screen and Goad, a good MNK uses Mantra, and a good healer DPSes.

If you're failing at your own role, you're bad. A SMN not using Dreadwyrm stance is bad, a WHM letting a tank die is bad, a PLD not using cooldowns well is bad. But if a player isn't using all the tools they can to help their group, then they definitely aren't good, even if that help falls outside their Holy Trinity role.

...Lol I've never used Apocatastasis. Really most of you here aren't the right kind of people to pass judgment on anyone.

Anyhow, well I'm only 33WHM, but I find that sometimes it's impossible to DPS. If I put up cleric, and start stone, the tank is about to die mid cast -.-. And this is FROM full health. Yeah, the ability to DPS is largely dependent on the tank you have.

If healers who do not dps are bad healers, what are DDs who do not dps? They can't be just bad, because focusing on your role is considered bad, so what are they then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twilite

...Lol I've never used Apocatastasis. Really most of you here aren't the right kind of people to pass judgment on anyone.

---

Really bad timing on that second sentence. Apoca's awesome. If you've literally never used it then you probably shouldn't pass judgement either :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trashy

a WHM letting a tank die is bad

---

Obviously it's not that straightforward. I take it personally when anyone dies, but some tanks really make an effort.

I feel like shit everytime someone dies under my watch. Preventing that motivates me to stay on top of my game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malevicton

Really bad timing on that second sentence. Apoca's awesome. If you've literally never used it then you probably shouldn't pass judgement either :P

---

Well actually that was a misunderstanding on my part. I confused that with that other spell that teleports you. Now that I know what it is, yeah I'll start using it.

However some of the worst people this planet has had the unfortunate event of having exist on it, post on these forums. Just read general discussion, heh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twilite

I feel like shit everytime someone dies under my watch. Preventing that motivates me to stay on top of my game.

---

That's how the most of healers feel.

Dpsing as healer takes a lot of awarness and sklil - you also need faith in your team. Should you heal this guy to full, or would they be able to avoid the next aoe, in which case regen would be enough? Some healers just don't have balls to risk such gamble. Some can't stand being blamed for the fails. Healing only isn't being lazy... it is playing it safe.