Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

I would have no problem with letting people there, as long as they have no quests, dungeons, vendors, class trainers, flying or new combat classes available. Those require you to be the Warrior of Light and be allied with Ishgard. It's all explained in the story. So if it's truly about seeing the scenery and gathering, that's fine to me. (Edit. Think of it as being an illegal immigrant or a traveler without a visa. No NPC would help or trust you.)

I don't see how it specifically helps new players though. They have access to the internet too so they should know before buying FFXIV that the game has a linear quest line to unlock everything. If they don't like it, well tough luck.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

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I said new job quests (IE the ones we already have access to), not new jobs. Please read the post mine is in response to before posting and saying I haven't been reading the live letters.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

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It'd make sense due to the 5 new spells being added for 50-60 jobs, but who knows, it could be "You get these three at 55 and these two at 60!"

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Originally Posted by Reinha

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Basically the way I understand it... If the new player likes the crafting system and helping their FC craft things as opposed to go through the combat classes. So far I don't think anyone has stated "I'm DoH! I want access to all the goodies you DoW/DoM are gettting!" more "I'm DoH, can I please get into Ishgard so I can continue gathering and crafting stuff only located in Ishgard."

Why would they let foreigner in? You have done nothing for Ishard and they have their foreigner policy. Respect the law and do as you are told, please.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Why would they let foreigner in? You have done nothing for Ishard and they have their foreigner policy. Respect the law and do as you are told, please.

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The same reason why they let a foreign adventurer in. They're getting desperate and need help, and if you as a DoH/DoL are saying "Hey! I'll work for cheap" I'm sure Ishgard is fine writing a work visa, more hands to make gear and food for all those adventurers coming as well.


There were additional responses here, and I've moved them to properly address them to the posters.

Crafters and Gatherers want to get inside but don't have the story reasons.

This calls for....
Parley (Extreme Mode)!

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

The same reason why they let a foreign adventurer in. They're getting desperate and need help, and if you as a DoH/DoL are saying "Hey! I'll work for cheap" I'm sure Ishgard is fine writing a work visa, more hands to make gear and food for all those adventurers coming as well.

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And how can they know you are not an enemy, when you haven't done a single thing for them? :D

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

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They reach that state of desperation and willingness through the main story though. If you don't progress through it, the world in which your character resides doesn't progress for the most part as well. They're not going to let you in if you didn't help House Fortempts rid themselves of the rogue Inquisitor. Aymeric would have never spoken to the higher ups to get them to relax their stance if you didn't stop Lady Iceheart from wrecking the place as Shiva. They wouldn't be in such dire straits if she didn't bring down the barrier around Ishgard and allowed for the Nidhogg's horde to break through. The Ascians would have never turned to influencing her or Ishgard if you don't foil their plan involving the Garleans.

I don't care anymore.....
I love story, that's matter for me.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

People want to play FFXIV and they want to craft in it, maybe all their friends are going through combat stuff and they've chosen to be the FC crafter for everyone, why punish them for that?

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I have to disagree that having the MSQ prerequisite is a punishment. The game is not focused around DoL/DoH content. It's focused around battle content. That is where the meat of the game lies. If you wish to focus on side content, then you have to accept the setbacks of that decision. This is one of them.

Also, we're only allowed into Ishgard because we have rapport with Aymeric and Haurchefant. Otherwise, the xenophobic Ishgard wouldn't open their gates to us.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

The same reason why they let a foreign adventurer in. They're getting desperate and need help, and if you as a DoH/DoL are saying "Hey! I'll work for cheap" I'm sure Ishgard is fine writing a work visa, more hands to make gear and food for all those adventurers coming as well.

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Ishgard's been restricting access for a long time, they're not about to give a work Visa for some Culinarian, but I'm sure that's been said before.

I have to agree with a majority on this one and say no, FFXIV is a HUGELY story driven game & to jump in where so many things have happened been done wouldnt make sence and would honestly make me want to start from the beginning to see what happened to cause these occurenses.

Anyway I saw alot of people compared FFXIV to WoW in expansion regardes so here's how i see the 2 games:

WoW > The Burnin Crusade (Fresh Story) > WOTLK (Fresh Story) > Cataclysm (Fresh Story)

FFXIV (In depth Story) > FFXIV HW (Continuation from previous Story)

See where I am going with this? With each new WoW you are treated as a new hero whome may not survive, in FFXIV you are a WARRIOR OF LIGHT who the story revolves around.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

With that philosophy then no one should be able to raid any content or do any dungeons until they have finished all the raids and dungeons up to HW.

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Why is this the same?

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Why is this the same?

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I am having hard time finding any logic in it too. Especially when MSQ is just fetch this, kill that and do that dungeon, while raids are about collecting enough people and progressing for weeks.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

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And what worse is to new player they don't know anything about the lore.
Some of them play new expansion is clueless, and asking who is this, that & that.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

And what worse is to new player they don't know anything about the lore.
Some of them play new expansion is clueless, and asking who is this, that & that.

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Best question a newbie might ask: Why are we even here? XD (This one has been asked a lot from the Recent WoW expac. At least there they kinda have an excuse.)

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

I doubt botters will be hindered as much as new players will be by this.

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I don't really see how new players would be hindered by this. Doing MS quests is usually a great way to level up the first job of a new character and anyway you don t really need to go to Ishgard before level 50. Plus one can expect that every MSQ you do at 50 after heavenswag lands will award you XP.

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I used FF11 as an example because it's something a large percentage of people here have been exposed to. I could use other examples if you'd like...

You didn't need to finish Naxx40 to go to Outland
You didn't need to finish Sunwell to go to Northrend

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You don't need to finish FCoB to go to ishgard.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/3AVAJ/jus...corn/image.png

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

And how can they know you are not an enemy, when you haven't done a single thing for them? :D

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It's an issue of desperation (And the issue with having "You're the hero!" focused narrative if we're talking design. I mean, I got welcome into Ishgard through all my brave deeds, but how did all you other adventurers get here?!). Perhaps Aymeric and House Fortemps goes "Calling all DoH/DoL, House Fortemps is looking for eager craftsmen/gatherers to provide to the Dragonsong War in the name of Ishgard! But be warned, at the slightest sign of suspicious activities, we've got a ravine that welcomes heretics, suspected or otherwise, with sharp rocks with your name on it."

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

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It's the issue with a single protagonist story focused game being an MMO (You're the sole WoL doing all this! The rest of those nerds are just nameless adventurers). I mean shoot, technically I could save Ishgard from Vishap and just not play any more and I'm sure Aymeric would have still talked to the higher ups by that point.. But I still wouldn't be allowed into Ishgard because I haven't seen all the Cutscenes of the stuff at Ul'dah. And additionally, whenever the quests will eventually ask me to "Gather your fellow adventurers and prepare for some rough in tumble in Alexander/Raid/Scenario" where do those guys come in? They certainly didn't help House Fortemps in Coeurthas with the falsa Inquisitor. They didn't stop Lady Iceheart from wrecking the place as Shiva. They didn't stop Vishap, Ultima, or any of the other stuff, so... How did those fellow adventurers get there and why does Ishgard act like they exist?

Really, SE is having an issue with the progression of areas and meshing it with story. Think about Mor Dhona for example, it didn't always look like the way it did, yet if a level 20 PC goes there, Mor Dhona has received all the changes it did due to the events of the story. "But you didn't help the scions move there! Mor Dhona was still a dinky camp until you helped change it" It's a similar sort of boat. In 3.0, just add the quest "Ishgard in need!" giving the player a brief run down of the events that allowed Ishgard to get so desperate, then position it as a way to allow DoH/DoL in. House Fortemps still exists as an open

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

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Well that's the issue with this kind of story and MMOs. "We" have access? No you don't, the WoL has access and in my version of the game, I'm the WoL, the rest of you guys are nameless schmucks, I don't recall all those people rooting out the Inquisitor with me, heck it was only me and Alphinaud meeting with Aymeric or Haurchefant at the end of 2.55 too.. Only about 3 others stopped those Heretics in Snowcloak.. And Only about 7 others with Shiva and Vishap. What's SE going to do when they introduce the next 24 man raid and at a minimum only one person (The WoL) has access to Ishgard from the outside and at most either people do (The WoL and their nameless buddies)?

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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And I'm sure they're not going to give work visas for hordes of adventurers that will be helping me with my dungeons, quests, scenarios, and raids. Additionally, you go through the 2.x series, get to Ishgard and plop your rear down and begin crafting, good on you, you sure are helping Ishgard by taking the front lines aren't you?

Why does the story make exception for those random adventurers and not for those random DoH/DoL?

Cristo there we go.. If anyone is wondering where future responses will be... Well 20 posts of day is incredibly small and I wouldn't mind someone asking SE to increase that with a new thread >_> Like.. to 50 posts at least.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Crafters and Gatherers want to get inside but don't have the story reasons.

This calls for....
Parley (Extreme Mode)!

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only way id be fine with gatherers entering ishgard without doing story is if they couldnt access new jobs etc.. cause would be just easy way to obtain new jobs without playin through story like intended and naturally every1 would take advantage of it just for quick n easy way to get MCH, dark knight etc.. you could probably have ishgard open to stop the complaining for scenery purposes but without finishing story make it unable for them to talk to job npcs, quest npcs
etc or have it like it is for clas quests if not the correct level just red ! mark saying this job isnt available til complete blah blah XD

On a more serious note from my last post,

I get that some people just want to craft and do their thing.
But I don't think it's really too much ask for everyone to be encouraged to have one battle craft leveled.
You can probably even get by without cross class skills if it's just the story.

It might feel like a lot if you do all at once.
After HW drops, though, they said they're more than doubling the Main Scenario Questline, so it should the leveling process should be very quick.
Most of the Main Story is talking and meeting people rather than combat anyway.

So even though there is quite a bit to get through, but that's the story aspect of it more than the battle craft.
And the story, itself, is imperative to the game.

It's not like it really asks you to be a full-on DoW/DoM.
You don't have to do extreme modes or coil. The dungeons and primals involved are fairly simple and you only have to do them once.

As much as I like people playing their own way, I feel like it's not a bad thing to have the main story bind the players.
WoW has no continuity in regards to the PC precisely because it can't really assume they've ever actually done anything.
It's story also ends up being tied to the world and the NPC heroes rather than the character.

Not that that's a bad thing, but I don't think they're asking too much from others to support this design direction.

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

only way id be fine with gatherers entering ishgard without doing story is if they couldnt access new jobs etc.. cause would be just easy way to obtain new jobs without playin through story like intended and naturally every1 would take advantage of it just for quick n easy way to get MCH, dark knight etc.. you could probably have ishgard open to stop the complaining for scenery purposes but without finishing story make it unable for them to talk to job npcs, quest npcs
etc or have it like it is for clas quests if not the correct level just red ! mark saying this job isnt available til complete blah blah XD

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Maybe they should be able to enter region, but not cities and stuff like that.
Region-locking might be a bit much, but if they lock everything that should require the story then it'll be fine.

Which would still probably include the crafting stuff from Ishgard.

If you didn't just skip through the entire main story, then you know precisely why you can't enter Ishgard without permission. If you did, I have no sympathies for you. Seems very much like you're playing the wrong game if story is an 'inconvenience' for you.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

It's an issue of desperation (And the issue with having "You're the hero!" focused narrative if we're talking design. I mean, I got welcome into Ishgard through all my brave deeds, but how did all you other adventurers get here?!).

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From the player's perspective though, none of the events which caused them to accept adventurers has come to pass until you've beaten the big mean ol' dragon trying to stomp Ishgards wards into powder.

It's the equivalent of sticking Frodo with his ring of power at the gates of Mordor. He's got no idea what he's doing there, or why he's there, or why he's strangely attracted to this shiny bauble.

It's also worth noting that a lot of content is already gated behind the story, such as the expert roulette dungeons and the like. I don't hear anyone complaining about that part so far.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Maybe they should be able to enter region, but not cities and stuff like that.
Region-locking might be a bit much, but if they lock everything that should require the story then it'll be fine.

Which would still probably include the crafting stuff from Ishgard.

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would reduce the amount of complaining a little bit atleast lol since most complaints are cant enter ishgard unless finish story so make it so those who havent completed it can enter for visual experiences but are still required to finish story if wanna access new jobs etc etc etc pretty simple solution really

I bought the game on the end of february. I had not knowledge of any of the final fantasy franchise. I just joined the game because it looked neat. I actually didn't even see a problem with not knowing some stuffs background/lorr because to me it was just part of this FFXIV universe. It was actually the FFXI players that were the one informing me and whining/complaining on how the previous game was better, and they wanted some of those classes on this universe.

Now the game is based on a storyline. I started playing without complain. I like the story so far, and I think there is going to be a lot of new players like me that will just try to see what is going on with the story and game. Why even bother to play a game that needs you to progress the storyline if you just want to play it as if it were a shooting game.

That's why this game has a story mode {beat it} i roll 2 toons each have a 3 crafts and 3 or 4 classes to 50 and or maxed out. Its not hard to beat the story {iv done it 2 times and will prob end up doing a 3rd} so if you really want to go to Ishgard earn it

...another threat that maded me Lol

Thats like you bought a brand new game for 60$ and want to start at final boss! Wooo..... is that fun.....(?) >.>

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

That's why this game has a story mode {beat it} i roll 2 toons each have a 3 crafts and 3 or 4 classes to 50 and or maxed out. Its not hard to beat the story {iv done it 2 times and will prob end up doing a 3rd} so if you really want to go to Ishgard earn it

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^^^^^ this

It's not like I also didn't level up 3 characters to 2.55.

How about stop using the "it's for the new players!11!" excuse to justify lazyness?

I don't mean to be rude, but I just want to point three things:

• You might think that doing all the Story Quests can be boring to new players because you did it once, and when you think about you doing it again it makes sense that you want to avoid content that you once cleared.

• All 2.x content that you cleared and experienced will be brand new information to anyone that never touched FFXIV before.

• Stop thinking about everything from the point of view of a veteran player. You are not a new player anymore.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

How about stop using the "it's for the new players!11!" excuse to justify lazyness?

I don't mean to be rude, but I just want to point three things:

• You might think that doing all the Story Quests can be boring to new players because you did it once, and when you think about you doing it again it makes sense that you want to avoid content that you once cleared.

• All 2.x content that you cleared and experienced will be brand new information to anyone that never touched FFXIV before.

• Stop thinking about everything from the point of view of a veteran player. You are not a new player anymore.

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You Nailed it :)

Come on! Let new players into Ishgard! I would love to see them running around like headless chicken trying to maneuver around lvl 60 mobs who do several times their HP in one single hit!


Just no...

Basically the only thing new players might want to have access to are the new Jobs, the rest is gated for a good reason.
And I really have no idea why people are surprised that the gate is MSQ. The gate for almost everything in this game is MSQ!

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Come on! Let new players into Ishgard! I would love to see them running around like headless chicken trying to maneuver around lvl 60 mobs who do several times their HP in one single hit!


Just no...

Basically the only thing new players might want to have access to are the new Jobs, the rest is gated for a good reason.
And I really have no idea why people are surprised that the gate is MSQ. The gate for almost everything in this game is MSQ!

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Hell the gate for NINJA is MSQ. Since you can't start as a Rogue, you need to unlock the ability to unlock jobs.

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Originally Posted by Balipu

No, I'd rather not. It wouldn't make sense in the story and if you want to skip the story in a game then final fantasy is not the series for you.
Furthermore it lock away a lot of content that would be too difficult for inexperienced players. Currently the bears in dravania pose a threat to people who cleared steps of faith, which has a minimum item level of 100 I think? or maybe 110? I don't think fresh 50-s with artifact armor and a below 50 item level would enjoy the scenery that much :D
And there are the classes. I have ran ex roulette with people I wouldn't trust with the responsibility of handling a complex class like machinist or astrologian.
So, no I think the lockout is fine the way it is.

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oh but you trust everyone who cleared Sof? cause we know that no one got carried.
being locked out or not, doesn't change a thing; those that can handle ast/mch, can do so without being locked out, those that can't, wouldn't even if they got past SoF.

And by your logic, we should lock out Hunts behind 2.55 story, cause it's to challenging for inexperienced players?

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Hunts [...] challenging

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Best joke ever !

The problem that i see is simple.
People are familiar with WoWs way of handling Expansions.

What do i mean by that? Simple, Each WoW Expansion is a standalone "Story". Nothing in those expansions really tie into any content that came before. Hell, even Classic WoW only made sense if you played Warcraft 1/2/3.
The Quest dialogue in WoW simply assumes that you defeated every piece of content. Characters of mine that never saw the inside of SoO get hailed as Heroes that liberated the city.

The new player experience in WoW is incredibly broken. Vol'jin is Warchief when a brand new character walks into the city, yet when you get to 90, suddenly, its Warchief Garrosh? Who is Thrall? Why is he so badass and important?
Add to the general confusion and lack of story cohesion the fact that you must purchase the base game and then 5 Expansions, but only the latest expansion is the one that you do any content for. Hell, with how much they've boosted low level XP gains in WoW, you often reach the next expansions level break by the second zone of any given Expansion.

And lets not forget that you can make a Draenei Monk (Monks were added in Expansion#4, Draenei were the first Expansion) who freshly crawls out of the supposedly *just* crashed Exodaar at level 1.

As such, even though those prior Expansions are literally side stories, you still have to purchase and own them ALL before being allowed to do the "Stuff that matters".
With XIV, a new player will recieve the 50+ hours of Main Story from ARR and THEN the 50+ hours of Main Story in Heavensward.
When we get a second expansion, we will likely need to have 3.xx Main Story finished to go there.

As a result, assuming we get an average of 50 hours of Main Story per expansion, by the time XIV gets to 5 Expansions, a new player will have 300ish hours of pure Story to represent the cash they just blew on getting the latest versions of the game.
Not counting the Side Quests, Hildibrand, Job Quests, DoH and DoL Class Quests.
Whereas WoW literally has you purchase 6 games and then give you a shortcut to NOT play 5 of them!

TL;DR, It is good for the game to have a cohesive storyline for new players. It extends the experience for them, as they get to play all the content a veteran player got to do when that content was relevant.
Just because a veteran player making a fresh character has to do the MSQ to get to the expansion content does not mean a brand new player will find that same process boring or a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

oh but you trust everyone who cleared Sof? cause we know that no one got carried.
being locked out or not, doesn't change a thing; those that can handle ast/mch, can do so without being locked out, those that can't, wouldn't even if they got past SoF.

And by your logic, we should lock out Hunts behind 2.55 story, cause it's to challenging for inexperienced players?

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There will always be people who got carried, who are bad. But there will be way less of them if you lock out new players from challenging content.

Also Hunts? Maybe A and S, but "elite marks" are easy as hell, I have soloed those with sub-lvl 50 gear.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

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With the additional good part that the story is cohesive and doesn't require you to have read the freakin' patch notes for that particular expansion to know where to go to get to that expansion's content. Since it's all linked to the MSQ, you're never lost but nor are you barred from exploring the content that's currently relevant to you.
This is a problem in the following games:
WoW ("How do i get to Outland?" "Why do you want to go to Outland?!"), EQ1 (I have to go to WHAT zone to take a boat?! Wait, did I just outlevel 4 years of content in 3 days?), EQ2 (Here's a vague mail telling you that some guy is doing a thing in a place. Oh, and since you're 3 expansions behind, you have like 6 of these and we're not going to be clear on which is which), FFXI (I need a WHAT to get to Whitegate?) and DCUO (Wait, this is expansion content? I thought it was just a normal mission!)
Meanwhile games like SWTOR and STO (both sci-fi MMOs...huh...) gate their content and basically don't let you do it til the previous content is finished. STO even uses the game's quest tracker to not only list the "Episodes" involved, but since someone at the company has a brain, you don't initially have to track down an NPC and can just...y'know...use your space ship's communications to give em a call.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Best joke ever !

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

There will always be people who got carried, who are bad. But there will be way less of them if you lock out new players from challenging content.

Also Hunts? Maybe A and S, but "elite marks" are easy as hell, I have soloed those with sub-lvl 50 gear.

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Yes i meant S ranks mostly :)
I'd like to see a party of inexperienced players take on Bonnacon or Hellsclaw for that matter.

AST and MCH don't count as challenging content. Locking them out behind entire 2.X MSQ, is just silly.
There's plenty of better reasons to lock them out. Throughout pretty much every FF title, with multiple jobs, there has ALWAYS been jobs that you can't start off as, for different reasons. In FF-Tactics, there's tiers of jobs you need to unlock, and hidden characters you can get on your team; some are hidden behind side-quests. So it's not a problem that they are locked out from new players, but the whole "prevent them from doing it cause they must first learn how to clear SoF" is just ridiculous - you don't need to clear SoF, to be able to AST. Shitty AST is still gonna be shitty, regardless.

Sigh another of these threads no just no this is just one big thing we have to keep bots out of the expansion not to mention there will be grade 5 matieria that can be converted from higher level gear one of the reasons they made it so you can't spirit bond higher level gear from level 40 mobs is to make it harder on bots so they would have to go to the new areas to spirit bond it just no the gate is fine.

Not to mention the gathering bots don't remove the gate people.

Its high time they make it so you can't level a crafting or gathering class higher than what your highest discipline of war or magic class\job.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

I'd like to see a party of inexperienced players take on Bonnacon or Hellsclaw for that matter.

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They can...since they're s a whole bunch of people joining them to roll over S ranks in under a minute.

I actually managed to earn seals and tomestones (Not full benefit, of course), with a level 10 CNJ on an S rank.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Throughout pretty much every FF title, with multiple jobs, there has ALWAYS been jobs that you can't start off as, for different reasons.

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In FF III and V, pretty much all jobs are tied to the main story. Not a big deal.
Besides, theses "new players" already have a lot of content to do, it's not like Heavensward will be the only thing to wander from them.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They can...since they're s a whole bunch of people joining them to roll over S ranks in under a minute.

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Saying an encounter is "easy" because 100 people can dogpile on it is like saying climbing a mountain is "easy" because you can just take a helicopter to the top.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Saying an encounter is "easy" because 100 people can dogpile on it is like saying climbing a mountain is "easy" because you can just take a helicopter to the top.

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Except when that encounter is always done the same way.

Climbing a mountain is easy if a company made a cable-car service available for anybody for free :p