Astrologian Speculations! How will it fit in?

when expansion hits, I'm gonna change main to machinist...
but I'm so excited to play Astrologian, i like the dress, I like how it uses cards to fight (oh, Luxord, my love :3) i'm just gonna use it as a main Healer *_*

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

funny that this is coming especially from you.

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Whatever, I'm not the one parading "WHM's are LAZY" nonsense that keeps fueling those threads.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Man, if you are CONSTANTLY (which I highly doubt) running into these kinds of healers, I'm glad I'm not on your data cluster.

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I find it bizarre how certain people on the forum are insistent that there is enough time for a healer to DPS during any of the dungeon instances, because it seems like they're in bizzaro land. I've yet to run into an PUG DF instance where the Randoms played well enough from the start that they actually avoid taking damage. Like 2 in maybe 100, and they're usually tank+dps pairs from the same server/FC. The perfect random party is PLD/BLM/BRD with appropriate gear. Maybe people have just been facerolling through the dungeons too long with no new content and rely on powercreep over actual strategy. When was the last time I saw someone use Repose/Sleep? The nightmare combo is MNK/MNK, DRK/DRK, or NIN/NIN, since these combos require party healing frequently instead of single target healing.

As for AST...

I do wonder what will be done to keep it balanced versus WHM/SCH. It seems like anyone who starts the game and picks AST will have a horrible experience playing with other players who have already beaten all the 2.x content and just want to faceroll/speedpull through content.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

As for AST...

I do wonder what will be done to keep it balanced versus WHM/SCH. It seems like anyone who starts the game and picks AST will have a horrible experience playing with other players who have already beaten all the 2.x content and just want to faceroll/speedpull through content.

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can't play AST if you haven't finished 2.55 main scenario quest. this issue will NOT exist at all. Also, from what it seems, AST is just the "you'll always have a WHM and a SCH in your party" type of healer. Probably less efficient than the 2 others in their specialty, but able to do both to fill in the empty spots.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I find it bizarre how certain people on the forum are insistent that there is enough time for a healer to DPS during any of the dungeon instances, because it seems like they're in bizzaro land. I've yet to run into an PUG DF instance where the Randoms played well enough from the start that they actually avoid taking damage. Like 2 in maybe 100, and they're usually tank+dps pairs from the same server/FC.

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I pretty much have the exact opposite anecdotal experience to you. In other words:

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I find it bizarre how certain people on the forum are insistent that there is not enough time for a healer to DPS during any of the dungeon instances, because it seems like they're in bizzaro land. I've yet to consistently run into an PUG DF instance where the Randoms played well enough from the start that they actually avoid taking damage. Like 2 in maybe 100 are bad at dodging, and they're usually tank+dps pairs from the same server/FC.

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And this is from someone who has built both healer Zodiacs and solo queued about 75% of those runs on said healer.

Hence my comment, I'm glad I'm not on your data cluster. Apparently your data cluster is just bad (probably why there's a guy on the same server as you who has spent 8 hours trying to clear the Steps of Faith and hasn't been able to yet). Anyone from Behemoth, Brynhildr, Diabolos, Exodus, Famfrit, Hyperion, Lamia, Leviathan, Malboro, or Ultros can confirm?

Regardless, this leads me to pretty much say:

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Welp, I guess we're at a stalemate, mate.

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We're clearly going to have different opinions as we've have extremely differing duty finder experiences. *Shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Anyone from Behemoth, Brynhildr, Diabolos, Exodus, Famfrit, Hyperion, Lamia, Leviathan, Malboro, or Ultros can confirm?

Regardless, this leads me to pretty much say:

We're clearly going to have different opinions as we've have extremely differing duty finder experiences. *Shrugs*

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on Levi (also played on Diabolos, lamia and Malboro but have since deleted the alts) I'm one of the ones who commented back a few pages that Healers shouldn't be expected to dps because we're too busy! I actually dont main heal anymore simply because I am constantly running into the tanks/dps who prove KisaiTenshi is right. Data center full of trollers, who knows, but the end result.... Healers spend 98% of their time trying to keep their parties alive.

On a side note, alot of people came to FFXIV from other mmos; mmos which DISCOURAGE healers dpsing because thats not their job and will cause people to wipe. Healers have dps spells to level when they're not in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

on Levi (also played on Diabolos, lamia and Malboro but have since deleted the alts) I'm one of the ones who commented back a few pages that Healers shouldn't be expected to dps because we're too busy! I actually dont main heal anymore simply because I am constantly running into the tanks/dps who prove KisaiTenshi is right. Data center full of trollers, who knows, but the end result.... Healers spend 98% of their time trying to keep their parties alive.

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If it truly is a Data Cluster issue in terms of bad players, I feel sorry for all of you. When players are i120+ and taking much too much damage in WoD / random 4-mans, that truly is just bad players.

But I guess that explains some of the debate going on too (to a degree).

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

On a side note, alot of people came to FFXIV from other mmos; mmos which DISCOURAGE healers dpsing because thats not their job and will cause people to wipe. Healers have dps spells to level when they're not in dungeons.

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I don't disagree with this as most MMOs tend to have some sort of "spec system" and you're generally doing some sort of DPS spec while leveling / soloing and I don't see Cleric's Stance implementation to be any different from that.

What makes Cleric's Stance unique is the fact that you can activate at any moment, where as every other MMO I've played to date that does this usually has some sort of restriction. This makes your healer a fantastic DPS and thus you should be making use of this when opportunities present themselves.

Keywords: when opportunities present themselves

If you're healing 95% of the time because of derpy players, well, you're healing 95% of the time because you just cannot afford to DPS.
If you aren't DPSing when the tank is an i130 tank doing single pack pulls in Snowcloak, well, prepare for something like 80% idle time (or even 100% in the case of a SCH). So, why not DPS? <<< This is where comments about lazy come in.

Here are my metrics for healers:
Terrible - Full time DPS, or just letting me die ALL THE TIME to things outside of my control
Average - Keeping party health full, doing nothing more and nothing less to contribute
Excellent - Making effective use of cooldowns to help maintain party health, using idle healing time to produce additional DPS for the party to help defeat trash/bosses faster, adapting to unforeseen situations as they occur

I personally don't like to call people lazy, but I can appreciate where the comments themselves come from and respect the opinion.

Playing from Faerie, most of my bizarro experiences are when I'm NOT healing and am watching the healers be extremely slow or just do the wrong things.

It's gotten to the point that I immediately expect pain if both of my healers are WHMs; when SCHs are bad, at least the fairy will do something.

I wonder what exciting derp-AST stories we'll all experience in Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Playing from Faerie, most of my bizarro experiences are when I'm NOT healing and am watching the healers be extremely slow or just do the wrong things.

It's gotten to the point that I immediately expect pain if both of my healers are WHMs; when SCHs are bad, at least the fairy will do something.

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This makes me wonder if I've ever run into you randomly since we're on the same data cluster. lol. I actually ran into a MNK that had a very similar name to your user name and thought that was you (during a time where Shiva HM was absolutely crushing our soul and we actually had to Healer LB3 to save the group..)

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I wonder what exciting derp-AST stories we'll all experience in Heavensward.

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"I'm too busy buffing that I forgot to heal the tank"

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

This makes me wonder if I've ever run into you randomly since we're on the same data cluster. lol. I actually ran into a MNK that had a very similar name to your user name and thought that was you (during a time where Shiva HM was absolutely crushing our soul and we actually had to Healer LB3 to save the group..)

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Yeah, I don't play MNK at the moment, but it's certainly possible that we've run into each other. I'm SCH or BLM most of the time; occasionally WHM.

And yes, that's probably what will happen with AST, lol. They both go into barrier stance and neither is healing.

Usually when I play SCH on no-brain content, I'm way too DPS-heavy - I go dotting something to hell, bane it, Ruin II a couple of things, then realise my tank is at 30% and go OH SHIT *pop Rouse and everything Eos has to save tank*. Maybe I should've been a summoner, dunno.

It'll be interesting to see what similar brainfarts we'll see from AST. :) If it's true that 3.0 will rework the DoT system, I can see skill speed becoming a thing and them being very HoT-focused.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

If it truly is a Data Cluster issue in terms of bad players, I feel sorry for all of you.

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Reddit, 4chan, Something Awful are all on my (Legacy) server and therefor the Data Center. So maybe it's just tilted towards derpy trolls or something. Also just about everyone I know outside FFXIV who is playing FFXIV somehow managed to create their characters here.

Back on topic: I'll probably give AST a try, but I'm of the opinion that unless SE finds a way to give us more inventory space for the Armory, we're going to have some epic whine about not being able to to share gear between AST/SCH/WHM.

Gut feeling tells me Healing over Time focused with situational burst healing and standard Cure spell. Cant really see them risking gimmick stuff on a Healing class, you want Healers to be fairly simplistic.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

Gut feeling tells me Healing over Time focused with situational burst healing and standard Cure spell. Cant really see them risking gimmick stuff on a Healing class, you want Healers to be fairly simplistic.

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They've confirmed how Astrologians will play - they will stance dance between "big" heals (whm) and damage mitigation (sch) effectively playing both of their roles.

They have said the stances won't be switchable easily...maybe a cast timer like a Scholar's pets? (easily changeable with a swiftcast).

They've also said that Astrologians can "draw" cards and either use them straight away or combine them.

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

They've confirmed how Astrologians will play - they will stance dance between "big" heals (whm) and damage mitigation (sch) effectively playing both of their roles.

They have said the stances won't be switchable easily...maybe a cast timer like a Scholar's pets? (easily changeable with a swiftcast).

They've also said that Astrologians can "draw" cards and either use them straight away or combine them.

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Interesting. Going to assume they'll have lowest DPS to compensate? Hate to see Dual Astrologians being optimal.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

Interesting. Going to assume they'll have lowest DPS to compensate? Hate to see Dual Astrologians being optimal.

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huh ? where would you see that ?

Even if they were to be as efficient as WHM/SCH in their proper stance in healing/shielding respectively, you'd still lose the fairy's healing by going 2 AST. Depending on the stance changing timer, it could go pretty bad for the group...

the most likely situation to happen is each stance being a bit weaker than the counterpart, the difference being made up by the stance change. IE, AST will have a bit less raw healing power than WHM in healing mode, and a bit less shielding power than SCH in shielding mode (or less heal for similar shielding, because the loss of the fairy is a slight nerf in potency by itself)

[QUOTE=Kuwagami;2877061]can't play AST if you haven't finished 2.55 main scenario quest. this issue will NOT exist at all. [QUOTE]

How do you figure this? Everything I have seen only says that you must own the expansion and only be level 30 to be any of the new jobs. Completing story is only for accessing the post level 50 content.

If I am wrong though i'd love to know the source @_@ I thought I was as on top of the info I could get as possible.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

Interesting. Going to assume they'll have lowest DPS to compensate? Hate to see Dual Astrologians being optimal.

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I doubt that would be the case. Without either WHM or SCH you are going to be missing significant buffs, though we don't yet know how the card buffs will work. Those may be able to cover some of the differences but seemingly random, not so sure how that would be reliable for raids. And as many have said, with the power to switch between the two stances it is likely they will not be the BEST at either.

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

can't play AST if you haven't finished 2.55 main scenario quest. this issue will NOT exist at all.

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How do you figure this? Everything I have seen only says that you must own the expansion and only be level 30 to be any of the new jobs. Completing story is only for accessing the post level 50 content.

If I am wrong though i'd love to know the source @_@ I thought I was as on top of the info I could get as possible.

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The info about being able to access Ishgard without 2.55 MSQ was a mistranslation, clarified a bit after by SE

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/...d-new-details/

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@PlayStation Will we have to finish the main campaign or reach a certain level to access Heavensward's main content?

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Editor’s Note: After publishing this story, we received clarification from Square Enix for this question. The updated answer follows, but we’ve left the original answer in the story for transparency’s sake.

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Naoki Yoshida: You will have to already own A Realm Reborn, plus complete all of the main story quests up through Patch 2.55. After that, an introductory quest for Heavensward will become available; accepting that quest will then guide you through the gates of Ishgard. All of the job quests related to the new jobs will be in Ishgard as well, so the condition to access those will be the same. If a player had stopped playing around Patch 2.2 or 2.3, it would be best to revisit the A Realm Reborn main story quests to get back into the groove as you head towards Heavensward!

Original Answer: If you already own A Realm Reborn and you get Heavensward, you’ll be able to at least enter Ishgard. The new jobs added in Heavensward are not tied to the main story, so those are accessible as well. In terms of the story, if you want to enjoy the Heavensward story arc, since it’s tied to the upcoming 2.55 patch, it’s a prerequisite to have finished that content. If a player had stopped playing around patch 2.2 or 2.3, I’d recommend choosing one of the new jobs and leveling that up while catching up on the story, then transitioning into Heavensward.

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Thanks for clearing that up then! :< A bit sad though because if I ever make a character on another server I won't be able to play AST at 30 when leveling....

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

Thanks for clearing that up then! :< A bit sad though because if I ever make a character on another server I won't be able to play AST at 30 when leveling....

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they may ease that with time, but I wouldn't expect this right off the bat ;(

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

The info about being able to access Ishgard without 2.55 MSQ was a mistranslation, clarified a bit after by SE

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/...d-new-details/

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It sounds like
"You have to own Heavensward", point blank, as in you can't select those jobs without owning it. However it seems odd that there would be a requirement to complete the storyline first while still having a "level 30" requirement. This is probably incorrect. The level 30 requirement probably relates to having reached level 30 in one or both healer classes (eg the same point you would be told to continue onto a Job.) Eg they are mutually exclusive requirements. Since the quests to get AST would be in the Heavensward added areas, obviously you wouldn't be able to pick these Jobs as starting options. If there is an "unlocking" quest in the storyline to actually get into these areas, then that's probably to play the storyline, not actually enter the area. Think about what actually stops you from going into places in the game currently. If you don't play the storyline, the dungeons aren't added to the Duty Finder.

IMO, what this means if you own the expansion pack, and have (I assume one) of your classes at level 30, then you should be able to just find the NPC that hands it out (similar to how the Job NPC only appears after you hit that level,) since it's unlikely they are main storyline-unlocked. Without completing the main storyline, you probably will have to hike there on foot, or hitch a ride with someone who has.

Just speculating based on how everything else has worked so far.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

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that would be ignoring this part :

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You will have to already own A Realm Reborn, plus complete all of the main story quests up through Patch 2.55. After that, an introductory quest for Heavensward will become available; accepting that quest will then guide you through the gates of Ishgard. All of the job quests related to the new jobs will be in Ishgard as well, so the condition to access those will be the same.

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Which is the official statement for now. New jobs won't be for fresh 30 people.

The lv30 thing is related to the equipment requirements of the soul crystals. You have to be at least lv30 to be able to equip it. Nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

You have to be at least lv30 to be able to equip it. Nothing more.

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But the info they have currently also states that there is no 'base class' for these jobs, which brings enough issues imo with wondering how the skills work....do you just get like ten skills fresh at lvl 30 ast/drk/mch, and do they gain any skills with just leveling or do they have to do a quest for each skill? If you are level 50 then are you ast/drk/mch 50 since there is no base class? Does no base class mean you tack these skills onto ANY other class? They have unique weapons so will it be that equipping that weapon changes your class via the armory system is all, since a soul crystal wouldn't be necessary to differentiate it form a base class because it has none? I'm not saying any of these necessarily make sense, but since we have so very little info to go off of, anything is up in the air.

I am wondering then why state the lvl 30 though since to complete the main storyline you have to be lvl 50. Seems stupid, and superfluous.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Which is the official statement for now. New jobs won't be for fresh 30 people.

The lv30 thing is related to the equipment requirements of the soul crystals. You have to be at least lv30 to be able to equip it. Nothing more.

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That's the point my post and the last few posters were questioning.

The side note about how to actually enter the area seems specific to the storyline (as in you won't get the storyline quests without completing it.) Wouldn't it be absolutely ridiculous for some one to want to play with their friends in the 3.0 area but can't because they haven't completed the 2.x storyline yet, even though they bought the Expansion? Yeah something tells me that wouldn't go over well with new players one bit. There's probably an introductory storyline for Heavensward that actually kicks off the V3.0 main storyline, that is ONLY available after completing the 2.x mainstream storyline, because otherwise it wouldn't make logical sense. But artificially blocking players from getting to the new three Jobs without completing the 2.x storyline seems like some kind of miscommunication when they mention level 50 and level 30 in the same breath. Are players really going to want to level one class all the way to 50 just so they can start the Job they really want? Something is missing in that communication, be it not wanting to spoil it, or being intentionally vague.

The new jobs are Heavensward content. I see no reason to treat them similar to the other jobs that are already ingame. As all the Heavensward content is basically locked behind the MSQ from the 2.x series, it makes sense that the jobs are as well.

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

I am wondering then why state the lvl 30 though since to complete the main storyline you have to be lvl 50. Seems stupid, and superfluous.

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To push tanks and healers into the woefully underpopulated 30-50 dungeon bracket.

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Originally Posted by Krr

To push tanks and healers into the woefully underpopulated 30-50 dungeon bracket.

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Makes sense I guess. It's just the phrasing bugs me.....simply state that the jobs start at level 30 not that 30 is the requirement, seeing as how the real prereq includes level 50.

At any rate, if AST is supposed to switch between a SCH like stance and a WHM like stance I wonder if they will have any hots for the WHM side, or if only WHM and Eos will have hots. Or maybe the WHM stance is just direct heals and the SCH stance is shields and hots with NO normal direct heals. That could be interesting, though unlikely.

Guys guys, astrologians will draw a card that has an equal chance of healing big numbers, mitigation/shield, or buff. However this is going to be complete rng. Like most of the game. :D

They won't learn any other skills besides "Draw Card".

Man, the Healer's should/shouldn't DPS derailment. It all comes down to "Are you comfortable DPS'ing? yes? Then do it. no? Then don't."

But looking more and more into AST I can say I'm super excited. I'm going to assume the buff they bring is a Skill/Spell Speed buff because of what Square has mentioned about the Haste Buff, and the fact that SS is being updated in the expansion. The people who are talking about the barrier stance being all mitigation actually makes me cringe. I imagine in Healing Stance, they'll have their Cure at a Potency at 350. In Barrier stance it'll be a 200 Potency Heal, with 150 Potency Shield on top of it. I imagine white mage will stay with its burst healing, and healing over time. Scholar will still be the kings of shields and a high dps output. The strength of the AST will be that it can do what they can do, while not to the same extent while still bringing its own abilities to the table. I like this design as it means each healer will be welcomed, and not one will be "better" the the other except maybe very specific fights and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

Man, the Healer's should/shouldn't DPS derailment. It all comes down to "Are you comfortable DPS'ing? yes? Then do it. no? Then don't."

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That's like telling DPS that it's ok not to learn and use their proper rotations and CDs if they aren't comfortable with that level of activity. Sure, they can get the job done in most cases without playing as well as they could, but it shouldn't be encouraged.

But yes, definitely excited for AST and to see how it fits in with everything.

If you watch the 'leaked' Heavensward benchmark footage on Reddit, the card drawing looks really quick, and it seems she uses the first card she draws to give a rather quick fire based buff to the ninja (and whole party) that deals extra fire damage or something ^^ Interesting and makes me look forward to the job even more (plus the great AF)!

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

That's like telling DPS that it's ok not to learn and use their proper rotations and CDs if they aren't comfortable with that level of activity. Sure, they can get the job done in most cases without playing as well as they could, but it shouldn't be encouraged.

But yes, definitely excited for AST and to see how it fits in with everything.

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Well, following the rotation and doing the most DPS they can is the DPS's job. Keeping everyone alive is the Healer's job. If the DPS isn't comfortable using Cooldowns and Rotations, they shouldn't be a DPS. A healer DPS'ing is extra, it's not part of their job description and a majority of healers can't DPS when they're just learning a fight or starting off with gear. It's extra stuff that they do when they reach that comfort level. DPS is always supposed to DPS, and cutting corners hurts their role.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

Snip.

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I look at it as everyone's job to do the best they can, and a healer who "cuts corners" by doing only what they believe to be the minimum required of them when they could be doing more is performing as poorly as the DPS who can't be bothered to learn and execute optimal rotations.

DPS is absolutely part of a healer's job description, in much the same way a tank should optimize DPS beyond the bare minimum they need to hold enmity; it's just that DPS is of secondary concern to healers when they literally can't or don't know how to correctly DPS a fight.

If you give people a pass on account of "not being comfortable," that's as good as a license to be lazy if it suits them. If healers can DPS, they should.

So i'm guessing, with a name like Astrologian, their moves (and equipment) will have an astronomy/astrology theme? I wonder they'll get (toned down) Flare Star, Grand Cross, or Almagest as skills.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I look at it as everyone's job to do the best they can, and a healer who "cuts corners" by doing only what they believe to be the minimum required of them when they could be doing more is performing as poorly as the DPS who can't be bothered to learn and execute optimal rotations.

DPS is absolutely part of a healer's job description, in much the same way a tank should optimize DPS beyond the bare minimum they need to hold enmity; it's just that DPS is of secondary concern to healers when they literally can't or don't know how to correctly DPS a fight.

If you give people a pass on account of "not being comfortable," that's as good as a license to be lazy if it suits them. If healers can DPS, they should.

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And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

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The only "demand" is that players strive to play well, and learning how and when to provide supporting DPS as a healer is part of that.

Standing around doing nothing when healing support isn't required is playing poorly; healers who are very good not only take advantage of obvious lulls to DPS, but also anticipate or create windows in which to safely apply further DPS.

The concept is really much simpler than a lot of people on forums make it out to be. No one advocates healers DPSing to the exclusion of their primary responsibility of healing, and there are times when you simply cannot help DPS. However, DPS is a responsibility shared throughout the party, as there are no duties that grant you completion for most damage mitigated or highest HPS. Good players actively support this goal, regardless of their primary role, by doing the best they can at all times so long as it doesn't interfere with their ability to perform their role correctly; tanks maximize DPS when enmity is secure, healers off-DPS when it is safe to do so, and DPS provide utility and perform mechanics as needed while still maintaining their optimal rotations.

I personally think AST will play more into buffing DPS rather than doing the DPS, obviously it will still be capable, but I don't nescessarily see it having SCH's niche. I think SCH/AST will be amazing offencively paired (Selene/Cleric and Cards and should shields stack, huge barriers making old content easier due to gear scaling giving both time to dps) and WHM/AST will be very defencive (Big heals, paired with buffs and Astro shielding).

We have to bare in mind that WHM has Proshell and Improved Stoneskin, SCH has Adlo crits, Fey Covenant, Fey Illumination, Glow and Light, Virus and Sacred Soil. (of course there is more to mention)

Astrologian won't replace the other two healers, but instead strengthen them, should they make card buffs overwrite each other and shields not stack or w/e, it would make stacking AST not entirely ideal, I think the healers will all benefit well... but imagine having all 3 in one party! xD

Just realized that since astrologian is a job, it will only have cross class skills from 2 classes with no base class. This means one of conjurer, arcanist, or thaumaturge will not give cross class to AST.

What is worse to not have as cross class?
CNJ protect, stoneskin, cleric stance
ACN virus, e4e
THM swiftcast

Personally, unless they have their own version I consider swiftcast pretty important. But not having protect or e4e in a 4 man dungeon would be pretty suck, or cleric for soloing.

Also be use the job starts at 30, will they be unable to lvl sync below 30? All their skills they 'start with' would need base levels below 30 then. Also I am assuming they toss in weapons for the 3 new classes into dungeons and crafting, other wise that would suck.

Also consider what the AST needs to be on par with other healers in terms of kit. I would consider these bare minimum however unsure of how their stances changing the functions of existing spells will affect

Basic heal-cure, physick
Larger heal- cure2, adlo
Two aoe heals- medica and medica2, succor and whispering dawn (yes WD is on a cd but its still a huge aoe healing tool, and technically WHM has 3 with cure3)
Remove status- esuna, leeches
Mp recover-Shroud, aetherflow
A split healing tool-regen, embrace
An instant off gcd heal, limited by cd or special resource-benediction, lustrate
Some cooldowns that either improve self actions or defend the party. WHM has self buffs as divine seal and presence of mind, scholar has party help in fairy cooldowns and sacred soil.
Some dps spells to solo with.

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

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It's hard to discuss cross-class skills when we don't know much of anything about what skills the AST will have built into it. For all we know, Protect could end up being redundant for AST, and they could even end up with their own version of Swiftcast while being unable to cross-class with THM. Hopefully we'll find out more soon.

I think Astro might be the perfect solo healer when overgeared (or at gear level).

It sounds like it can do throughput AND mitigation, just not at the same level of white mage and scholar.

As for cross class skills...they don't need virus or E4E, so that's the obvious choice for me. Arcanist skills are very meh WHEN COMPARED to conjurer and Thuama skills. If you need virus for a fight you can just get a summoner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

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Please don't ever play a scholar.
*hugs Selene and his cleric stance hotkey*

Some of the ideas mentioned make me really excited to play this job on release! As a career healer (both SCH and WHM) I hope AST brings something new to the table. A single target MP refresh ability? Raid buffs? Emnity dump/transfer? Reraise? I also hope it is not reliant on Cleric Stance to deal damage. My last wish is that WHM not a "must" for raid composition.