Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

Hoping for some nice cleavage or ZR on the female DRK armor just to witness the SJW meltdown on here.

People are playing the wrong game if they want a fully covered female character.

As a Warrior main: W-where did this thread even come from?

DRK need a 6-pack for male and female

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Originally Posted by Orspeth

Pointless holes cut out of the armour make it "feminine" ? Most women would be smart enough to keep those vital areas covered.

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Show me one tank gear with a belly hole on female.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

As a Warrior main: W-where did this thread even come from?

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Exactly, it's because Ninja shows a little skin on the upper chest aka seduction because they are ninjas, what bettter way to catch the eye of an opponent then to get them to focus on the wrong part of your body.

Dragoons stomachs which I believe are like that because pregnant Dragoons would still go into battle so they wouldn't have that piece of armor on their torso. I'm confident it's mentioned in the DRG story-line but it's hard to find a transcript.

Finally bard doesn't have a white shirt under the green vest. So for some people they think 3/10 classes have a "sexier" look=SE is sexist.

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Originally Posted by Airget

<snip>

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The dragoon part is iffy, I don't really recall that. But yeah, seduction tactics are older than dirt in espionage, and the Job whose sole duty is that of moral support can offer moral support in more than just words and music. As for the heavily armored Jobs, there hasn't been a set in the game yet that is "sexy" for them. The closest I think we got was the Noct Lorica, which was only sexy on men (it just looked weird for female characters).

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Originally Posted by Reinha

http://cmsstatic.aionfreetoplay.com/armor1.jpg

The theme is the same for both genders but you can see that the male X-shape and female hourglass shape are emphasized. Notice how the female gear is nothing like a beach bikini that people keep offering as the alternative for tin can armor.

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What do you mean it's nothing like it? Every single woman in your picture is wearing skimpy swimwear while the men are all fully clothed. Ok, so the women's outfits are based on a one piece swimsuit or teddy rather than a bikini, but whether it's swimwear or lingerie, none of them have clothes on.

I actually do think the male and female versions should be modeled to suit each gender's body shape. The Noct armour is horrible because it fails to do that. The problem there isn't because women get the same gear as men, it's because they get the same gear as men that's still fitted to a man's shape regardless of the character wearing it. SE did a far better job with most of the rest of the armour in the game, giving the same gear but fitted to the character, so the female versions show off the female form flatteringly.

They really screw up when they try to give women different gear than the men, though, especially when they do it on iconic AF gear, like the DRG or NIN sets. The male versions of both of those look great and would look great on a woman as well, but women can't get them, because SE decided to change it up (which is to say screw it up) for the female version, giving them a different and far worse outfit.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

What do you mean it's nothing like it? Every single woman in your picture is wearing skimpy swimwear while the men are all fully clothed. Ok, so the women's outfits are based on a one piece swimsuit or teddy rather than a bikini, but whether it's swimwear or lingerie, none of them have clothes on.

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People's opinions vastly differ on what is or isn't "skimpy swimwear", "lingerie" or "clothes". I wouldn't call those outfits "skimpy" or "lingerie", myself. I also disagree with your statement that male versions of DRG and NIN look great. I happen to vastly prefer the female versions, myself. So, since you're playing a male character and I'm playing a female character, everything's wonderful, right?

I wounder why nobody complain about the uncovered knees of the female monk af

I stated this on a different thread, but I feel as if Armor Variants would go a long way towards alleviating the tension on matters like these.

Important pieces of gear, such as AF, could have the option of having various styles of them that are progressively more modest or more exhibitionist, similar to how /visor works. I'm sure a couple Dark Knights wouldn't mind going full on Kill la Kill in their outfits regardless of gender, and I would have no problem with people wanting to dress that way in a fantasy game - so long as it's not willfully imposed on myself.

Options. Options are not bad, they allow individual identity - something we're all trying to preserve here, right?

I can have one character that's modest and one characters that's outright lewd. I'd like to have job-specific gear options for both, and we have a system that could be used to accommodate that.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

People are playing the wrong game if they want a fully covered female character.

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You apparently missed this post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2919366

I think that the assumption that Feminine = More Skin is a stereotype is actually in error.

When I picture feminine, I picture long dresses, smooth textures, a demure demeanor, as well as the more provocative, sensual/sexy revealing style.

It's not a single pointed ideal to look at and say "This is what it means to be feminine!" to the exclusion of all else. Both ideas are right.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

So, since you're playing a male character and I'm playing a female character, everything's wonderful, right?

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Well, it's true that my main character whom I play the most is male, but I actually play several characters. For the males, I have a male Miqo'te, male Hyur, and will soon have a male Au Ra. For the females, I have a female Elezen and a female Lalafel. I've also designed a couple female Roegadyn but haven't really started them yet (in part because I can't decide which I like better). So I have some interest in the gear for both genders.

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Originally Posted by dice137

You apparently missed this post: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2919366

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I did but I still stand by what I said. Glamours had to be the worst thing SE has released. People are in a uproar because one armor variant shows some skin is mind blowing. While I hate seeing people running around with bikinis, I can say the same for guys running around with no shirts. If an armor set is gonna be a full body, make it feminine. Im not saying if has to show skin, I just don't want a copy and paste job on SE's part. XI had the right idea when it came to armor variants so idk why XIV can't have the same. But I still say that this is a JP made by JP devs which will have biases in it. Females will always get treated better than the males.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

They really screw up when they try to give women different gear than the men

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They do? Because especially the female Ninja and Dragoon AF sets look way better than the male version.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

What do you mean it's nothing like it? Every single woman in your picture is wearing skimpy swimwear while the men are all fully clothed.

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Different strokes for all the folks because those outfits look gorgeous.
Two men there show their chest and stomach.
Please look inside for pics.

http://www.aionnice.com/wp-content/u...usive-card.jpg
http://na.aiononline.com/media/uploa...ages/EwMyj.jpg
http://img3.mmo.mmo4arab.com/aion/20...sitemsrobe.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...43d63572d4.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/eb88bb599...1u2o1_1280.jpg

/Most photo's are Songweaver/Songstress/Maestro type of gear aka support/healer. The 1st one is a Gunslinger female on the right and the last are tanks./
We need more female/male clothes. They can't do unisex well and it looks like crap.
Unisex healer gear is the worst imo. It's UGLY and always a damn robe.
Please start doing what TERA/AION is doing and make gear to match the race.
I wholly welcome more options and more cute stuff as seen above the pictures.
Just eh, I don't wanna look like a guy or ugly in my gear when I'm not a guy...and I don't wanna look ugly lol.
If I wanted that I'd...well...be a guy character...and wear ugly gear! lol.

Heaven forbid females have feminine outfits. It gets really old having the cover it all up and make it look like a man crowd. How about we get more than one option for the gear then and let people choose what we want. I don't want to look like a guy, sorry.

Love the pics in the post above mine.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

*snip*

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Yeah. You and I have different definitions of the word "skimpy", my friend. The Assassin and Chanter classes has the men with a front jacket and midriff, respectively. Heck, the sin class male is more revealing than the female. He might as well be topless. :P

And you're exaggerating on the "No clothes on" bit. They're showing a bit a skin, tastefully, I might add, but it's far from lingerie or swimwear.
As someone already said in this thread, there's is a different between tastefully showing some skin and flat having nothing but a few pieces of clothing on. And, those pic there, (kudos for Reinha showing the Aion armor sets, btw), are tasteful.

Actually, it...kinda seems as if you're more against showing skin (on women...apparently, for you, men can show quite a bit before even thinking the outfits they're wearing are too revealing or unrealistic), period.
Edit: lol seems someone beat me to posting. Exactly, Riepah. :P

Being Tank armor, I highly doubt it'll be impacted by gender differences. WAR armor isn't impacted at all, and PLD is only affected by like... 1% perhaps? Though with all the people throwing out posts that show they're basically being entitled pricks, especially in the DRG armor thread, I'd be laughing my head off if the DRK armor for females ended up being skimpy. I'd even go as far as to saying that it's a "TAKE THAT!" from the developers, who are getting fed up with all the complaints and decided to take a pot shot at this forum.

The biggest thing people tend to forget is that they are NOT the ones in control of this game. The developers are. They also tend to forget that different people have different tastes. Some people actually LIKE having a little exposure, both male AND female players alike. (GASP! I know right? Female players that actually like a little exposure on their character!? Madness!) So the moment you try to overwrite someone else's personal preference on the way an armor piece looks just because you don't like it, you've gone too far. The world does NOT revolve around you. Period.

Personally, I'd like it if the DRK armor remained fully clothed simply for being Tank armor and the fact that it does look really awesome that way, but I won't go on a rampage if it ends up looking different on a female character.

Needs armoured hotpants, a boob window, and some thigh boots with a nice stiletto heel.

Not sure what they should do with the female version, though.

You know, when I read the extremely numerous over the top responses in this topic and many others about the female Dragoon AF top, I can't help but wonder what happened to turn everyone into such prudish people. I mean, good god, the reactions to a bit of female character skin sound like those of fundamentalist religious leaders rather than normal open minded gamers.It's like stepping back into the Victorian era when displaying an ankle was considered scandalous, or perhaps 50's America before the bikini arrived in the early '60s when the display of a female navel was all but considered pornography and actually was banned from movies in the US, requiring heavy censorship to remove it from foreign movies.

I am not sure what is is that makes you all so uncomfortable, but it sure seems like your attitudes towards exposure of skin (seeming whether male or female) have been starkly affected by the politically correct trend of defending people against yet to be perceived offense, such as defending female characters from over exposure of their navel because that would obviously be exploitative...

Why, pray tell, is exposing a navel exploitative? We all have one, at least we did the last time I checked, unless revisionist history has somehow expunged the navel from our anatomy. I know that someone will reply that it's only the female Dragoon AF armor that does it, not the male. That's fine, so cut a hole in the male version too, or give them an asymmetric design that exposes half of their manly chest to show how macho they are... I don't care either way, equal opportunity exposure is fine by me. But the faux offense taken at the exposed midriff is just too reminiscent of the puritanical attitudes of the National League of Decency from the 30's, 40s, 50s and 60s in the US. some of your attitudes could use a 3 week stay on at European beach resort to retrain you as to what is/is not acceptable exposure of skin.

This is the female version
http://i.imgur.com/KtoBYIw.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kalandros

This is the female version

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I approve.

Weren't people complaining that the Noct chestplate gave female characters abs? Regardless, I support gender equality in armor. Signed.

i would have to agree, but it seems that SE is already doing a pretty good job with not making armor oversexualized.

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

Needs armoured hotpants, a boob window, and some thigh boots with a nice stiletto heel.

Not sure what they should do with the female version, though.

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It is tank gear, not melee gear

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Different strokes for all the folks because those outfits look gorgeous.

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Whether they look good or not is indeed in the eye of the beholder. (Individually, I'd actually think they look pretty good, too.) But the discussion was about female gear being sexualized compared to the male versions. Having all the females strutting around in nothing but a teddy while the males all have complete outfits is a perfect example of that, regardless of whether you think it looks good or not.

Now it's fine to have sexy, revealing outfits. In fact, I quite like some of the sexy revealing outfits FFXIV offers. But it's only ok in cases where both genders get a similarly sexy and revealing outfit. Outfits don't all have to be exactly the same between genders (though in many cases that's the best way to achieve it), but they do need to be equivalent to each other. This is all the more important when it comes to significant iconic sets like artifact armour.

I feel like i'm the only one who doesn't care about "equality". If I like the look of a set of armor, I wear it, if I don't, I ignore it. Is that so hard to do?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I am not sure what is is that makes you all so uncomfortable, but it sure seems like your attitudes towards exposure of skin (seeming whether male or female) have been starkly affected by the politically correct trend of defending people against yet to be perceived offense, such as defending female characters from over exposure of their navel because that would obviously be exploitative...

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This discussion is not in ANY WAY about people being prudish about exposure of female flesh. It is about a double standard. Dragoon males are fully covered. Dragoon females have a belly window. Why the difference? There's pretty much no answer that doesn't boil down to, "The developers thought that their male players would find it appealing, and felt that their male players would be turned off by the same features on the male."

Male Dragoon is the Serious Dragoon. Female Dragoon is the Sexy Dragoon. THAT is what infuriates people. You can rationalize it all you like - females can be serious AND sexy, right? You can even trot out all the female players you like who will insist that they LIKE their avatars to be sexy. None of it changes the fact that this is a double standard, a difference that is applied to the female model BECAUSE they are female - and one that, realisitcally, would actually a detriment in combat. It's almost as bad as putting high heels on armor, a depth to which SE has THANKFULLY not plunged.

You don't have to agree that this double standard is a bad thing, but don't try to pretend that anyone is irritated with it because they feel that naked female flesh is sinful. Dragoon armour could consist of nothing but a spear and a thong, and it would be perfectly fine so long as the male armor is ALSO nothing but a spear and a thong.

Solve the drama, use the sacred 'toggle' option....

Make it so everyone's happy just by selecting with one click their option.


PS: I'd also prefer the normal set, without any modification... Dragoon AF looks especially.... Ridiculous in lalafell female.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

None of it changes the fact that this is a double standard, a difference that is applied to the female model BECAUSE they are femal.

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The double standard exists in real life, but the opposite. Females can wear male clothing, and female clothing, but if men go into, say, Victoria's secret and start trying on stuff, they would be thrown out.

Just let this crap go away, its annoying and pointless and won't make a big impact either way.

just glamdor it to something else if you don't like it.......

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Male Dragoon is the Serious Dragoon. Female Dragoon is the Sexy Dragoon. THAT is what infuriates people. You can rationalize it all you like - females can be serious AND sexy, right?

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First of all, calm down. Second, I doubt there are many people who consider a visible navel the height of "sexy", the thing is little more than a lint collector after all. Your attitude towards this topic is clear form your comments regarding high heels with armor, so kindly stop trying to act like you're some kind of crusader for fairness.

Before we proceed though, we should probably review all the armor and gear sets in the game to see whether male characters have any gear that bares things that the female version does not, or gear sets that accentuate masculine features on the wearer, regardless of gender. The double standard here is those cloaking their puritanical leaning with arguments related to the real world practicality of armor in what is - after all - a fantasy game, or those leaping to the defense of female characters who obviously are horribly exploited by having their lint collectors shown in Dragoon AF gear.

Now, since we're talking about double standards in gear, I'm pretty sure that there are a couple of beach sets that essentially have the male bare chested, while the female has her chest clothed. Is that not a double standard too? Nipples and breasts on females are considered sexual, despite the fact that their primary function is top provide nourishment for their children. Admittedly they are also considered erogenous zones. Oddly enough, nipples and 'breasts' are not the exclusive preserve of females, males have them too (shocking I know) and they are also considered to be erogenous zones. So, why on eorzea is there a double standard?

Oh, that's right because there are certain conventions in clothing that are considered female traits and others that are considered male. Why are you surprise then that there are differences in gear between female and male? It should be obvious that such differences would exist and that female gear would accentuate the feminine characteristics, and male would accentuate masculine characteristics.

To suggest otherwise is indeed a double standard since you are implicitly (based on your arguments used in your posts) saying that all gear should be the same, and fit the male characters properly. Realism be damned, this is a game, immersion be damned you can wear a snowman head or pumpkin into battle. Those arguments hold no water, and all it comes down to is the attitude of players like yourself who find offense in things like the Dragoon AF gear, but apparently not in the beach wear, since to my knowledge there has not been a longstanding complaint here about the existence of the male chest in beach wear.

Which, by the way, goes directly to your point about a spear and a thong. Since there would be an obvious double standard allowing the male Dragoon to be topless, but not the female. Or, are you suggesting that as proof that you do not find female flesh sinful?

.

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.

.

(yes the final paragraph is in jest, I hope you realize that...)

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Originally Posted by Mahri

...when representing the core look of a job, give us the full treatment. A faceless, menacing, imposing figure, in midnight clad, striking fear in the hearts of foes.

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I feel that this is being glazed over by so many pulling the 'this is an MMO, female charterers will always have sexy armor' card is that this is not the bulk of what the OP wants. There are plenty of nice skimpy armor for you to put on and glamour for your characters. No one is saying 'no more sexy in my game at all'. What is being requested is that an iconic piece of gear, that is the primary representation of a specific job or class, is not drastically altered for the sexes, theme wise or look wise. This set is suppose to represent Dark Knights. It does not need to be glamed up or dolled out for any reason.

Having a piece of gear better form a character is welcome in my opinion is makes logical sense (hence why so many were upset about the Noct Loct armor on females, although in my opinion it only looked good on fem/male roes, highlanders, and some catboys.) But having a piece of gear fit a character better does not mean redesigning it to show skin (al la Dragoon belly AF style), or making it more sexy, or glamorous. That's why as a few have noticed there are slight differences in all the AF armor between the males and females but only the Dragoon one is complained about extensively.

A number of other games do this well where a female character is given armor and it is entirely warped by any means, it just fitted to their figure without changing the fact that it is well thought out functional armor.

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery...mor-female.jpg

http://madartlab.com/files/2011/12/hildelarge.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ab3f80477d.jpg

http://madartlab.com/files/2011/12/femshep.jpg

Hilde and DA's armor is altered to fit them better and show that they are female without showing any skin and mainly focus on the fitting of the gear. Femshep could be a bit better but there's no boob window or skin slits so it gets a pass in my book lol

There is a time and a place for sexier gear, or gear that is more feminine between the male and female characters, but iconic tank gear(similar to the WAR and PLD sets) is not one of them. There will be plenty of other sexy gear released in the future, but I have faith they will leave this set's design alone and just properly fit it to both sexes unlike that scary Noct Loct.....man those abs were frightening. @__@

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

Hilde and DA's armor is altered to fit them better and show that they are female without showing any skin and mainly focus on the fitting of the gear.

There is a time and a place for sexier gear, or gear that is more feminine between the male and female characters, but iconic tank gear(similar to the WAR and PLD sets) is not one of them. There will be plenty of other sexy gear released in the future,

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Sophitia and Cassandra demand equal treatment with Hilde...

I'm personally not advocating overtly sexy gear, this is not that kind of game. But I see nothing wrong with allowing female gear to be fitting and fittingly feminine, just as there is nothing wrong with allowing male gear to be fitting and fittingly masculine.

As for your comment about plenty of other sexy gear, there really isn't that much in the game that would be considered sexy, though they are welcome to add more. Some of the things they have added have been horribly ruined such as the top to the 'bunny suit' you can get from GS. The top looks really odd, and is decidedly not sexy.

But as I said, the point is not to have more overtly sexy gear in for either gender, but to have gear that fits each gender and accentuates the characteristics of that gender. How people combine, color and dress it all up, is up to them.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

-snip-

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Oh yes, I definitely agree with the whole fitting thing, sorry if that last part didn't come off like that. The game itself having sexy gear, while not a ton, there's a decent amount of options to choose from although you're probably right that many of them are a tad bit over the top.....and I kinda wanna bunny costume myself although i cant wear it lol. But yesh, having a well fitting piece of gear with no out of place skin windows for DRK will make me happy, even with slight adjustments so long as the theme still fits.

(And yes Sofi and Cassandra do deserve that treatment lol I tend to over look their costumes because of the greek theme xD)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

we should probably review all the armor and gear sets in the game to see whether male characters have any gear that bares things that the female version does not

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Ok, well the AF sets are the relevant ones, so lets try:

DRG - Female version more revealing than male
NIN - Female version more revealing than male
BRD - Female version more revealing than male
MNK - Female version more revealing than male
SCH - Female version more revealing than male
SUM - Female version more revealing than male
BKM - No difference that I've noticed
WHM - No difference that I've noticed
PLD - No difference that I've noticed
WAR - No difference that I've noticed (well, not in how revealing they are anyway. nice shaping adjustments, though)

Now some of the differences are pretty minor and so unlikely to bother people. (I'd likely never have even noticed the MNK difference if not looking it up to compare them.) But the differences are all in the same direction, just some more glaringly than others.


(And yes, I know you referred to all gear in the game and not just AF, but that's just a distraction to the issue here. The issue is about iconic Artifact gear.)

While this is about armor... can I just say that as a female I'd be pretty embarrassed to be using the WHM staff in the 3.0 shot...Just saying...

http://i.imgur.com/TkXSEwt.jpg

I just want armor that looks different on male characters and female characters. I have a female character and a male character for a reason, it's no fun when all of their armor looks exactly the same on both of them. Let's get some variation here!

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

can I just say

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Seriously?

The staff doesn't portray anything but a angel figure. There us nothing sexual about it or even implied.

I think people get a bit over defensive about this kind of stuff. This is overreaching especially when there a good examples like the drg armor to look at instead of a staff with a figure on it.