What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

There's no need to get upset. People need to learn to get over it.

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But they were sitting in Mor Dhona doing nothing when someone told them Safat was up, they deserve full credit!

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Originally Posted by Thayos

This is true... but it's also not fair to assume these people are in hunt linkshells. I'd be willing to bet a lot of people who do stuff like that are newer hunters who aren't used to the frustration of early pulls. Once you've hunted for awhile, you just accept that it happens and move on.

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I get that, but considering how wide-sprawling these LS are, it's a bit naive to assume all of them are NOT part of hunt linkshells. Also, consider the OP's situation, they were threatened with widespread blacklisting. That kind of threat seems likely to come from people with the clout to do that, i.e. people in a position to tell their LS "XXX is an early puller, blacklist them and tell all your other hunt LS to blacklist them too". And... frankly, looking at some of the posts from people in here who ARE in hunt LS, I'm not sure I can vouch for the maturity of them. I note for example that both OP and myself have been called liars and accused of being trolls wanting to disrupt the "peaceful" hunt LS from a person whose manner of talking about hunts makes me think we can safely assume is part of at least one.

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I get that, but considering how wide-sprawling these LS are, it's a bit naive to assume all of them are NOT part of hunt linkshells.

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I wasn't referring to the OP... I was referring to someone's post just a few posts back.

Just because someone is insensitive toward you doesn't mean that person is from a hunt ls. It's not just hunt linkshells that favor the group-oriented social norms... it's also random people who join or create separate hunt parties. In fact, many hunt linkshells will remove linkshell members who harass people outside the ls.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... it's people on the fringes -- NOT the majority of hunters (and that includes people in and out of hunt linkshells) -- who cause most of the problems.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Perspective is a funny thing. From what you just described, I see people trying to play the game. And a large group of people being, as you said, D-bags, to them.

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The funny thing is your perspective is broken. When the whole world looks tilted to you, may be it is you that needs to correct your your perspective. The .exe FC trolls were obvious plain as day. They were playing the game at trolling everyone else, disrupting everyone else's play and being detrimental to everyone else on the server. I don't understand why there are so many devil's (trolls's) advocate defending troll like behavior. It is probably because they are not accepted in game and couldn't get an audience there so they come here to the forums and complain.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I don't understand why there are so many devil's (trolls's) advocate defending troll like behavior. It is probably because they are not accepted in game and couldn't get an audience there so they come here to the forums and complain.

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I'm not defending the trolls. I'm defending people wrongly accused of being trolls. For example, the members of .exe who were NOT engaging in trolling behavior or "early pulls" (not that there's any such thing unless the actual finder specifies a specific time) yet who were ostracized and stigmatized to the point of being driven from their server. Or people like the OP here or in the "horrible behavior" thread whose pull was by accident yet were subjected to verbal abuse and shameful treatment by the entirety of the zerg. (And don't try and claim that it was only "the fringe", the other poster I'm referring to shouted for someone to please raise him and not ONE SINGLE PERSON even attempted to do so. That's not "the fringe", that's the entire group attacking that mob deciding to "punish" him.)

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The OP excuse of the cat is about as valid a the dog ate the homework. The thread is a troll thread to start with.

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(Hit daily limit, so I have to edit here instead.)

I invite you once again to put forth the evidence you clearly have, since you are so confident that both OP and I were lying and trolling when we posted our experiences with the Hunt.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And trolls early pulling do NOT deserve a raise.

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I'm not talking about a troll early pulling. I'm talking about someone who was instantly aggroed by the mob spawning directly on top of him.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

I'm not defending the trolls. I'm defending people wrongly accused of being trolls. ...

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The OP excuse of the cat is about as valid a the dog ate the homework. The thread is a troll thread to start with.

Are there people falsely accused, sure that has happened. Are there accidents, sure that has happened to. Granted foul language is reportable and should be reported, but a few choice words is hardly the end of world. How is that the trolls like to say on these forums: "deal with it" or "get over it". The trolls are here trying to have a pity party in their echo chamber. And all sorts of excuses, hypotheticals, etc. along with the FUD about TOS etc. is all just attempts to defend the troll behavior.

The FC .exe chose to flee the server because the allowed their reputation to be ruined. That is their own doing. No one victimized them, they were victimizing everyone else. I know many of people that were in the FC and abandoned it like rats jumping ship. They joined other FC are still on the same server and still doing hunts with the rest of us just fine. They don't want to grouped with a leadership that did not sanction bad behavior. The trolls are the fringe. And troll behavior certainly have consequences. And trolls early pulling do NOT deserve a raise.

I still think the game should be played the way it was designed to be played. Yoshi's said numerous times that the zerg was not intended. Maybe they should have predicted it or instigated a fix as soon as it started but even if they didn't, we as players can fix player created problems ourselves. We have the ability to say we're doing something we shouldn't and just not do it anymore.

I think if you're actively hunting, you can get to the monster in less than a minute because you're already in the zone. Anyone who can't be bothered doing the work doesn't deserve the reward and if too many people come it destroys the content completely.

How many people actually fight properly? I think most just do things that generate enmity instead of fighting these boss like monsters as bosses.

All anyone cares about is the rewards. There's more to content than shinies and those who try to play the content as it was designed shouldn't be abused for that.

I personally stopped doing hunts a long time ago because I didn't want to be part of the problem that is the zerg. There's that old saying "be the change you want to see". One less player is a good thing. Does that mean I don't get the shinies? Yes, but so what? I don't do BCoB either so it isn't like I really need them (and those who do do it probably get better stuff there anyway). They'd be nice to have of course, but self respect is nicer.

I dont even know what is considered "early" anymore.

The same people complaining about early pulls, comlaion about mobs not being visible because of to many people :<

See it this way. An LS, Hunting Party finds an A/S rank and decides to let everyone and their dog come to poke it with a stick, be grateful instead of moaning that they did not wait for your entitled little behind.
There are others though, that start pulling just because they want to pull and enjoy the drama that follows.

I had one guy rant that people pull to early, he zoned in SIX MINUTES after it was pulled, 10 Minutes after the first report.
What the hell man?

Just wanted to say LOL @ Hunt Drama. It's just plain hilarious that this content is still causing people to be knob-ends. Probably safe to say it's an SE design issue now rather than a player issue.

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I personally stopped doing hunts a long time ago because I didn't want to be part of the problem that is the zerg. There's that old saying "be the change you want to see". One less player is a good thing. Does that mean I don't get the shinies? Yes, but so what? I don't do BCoB either so it isn't like I really need them (and those who do do it probably get better stuff there anyway). They'd be nice to have of course, but self respect is nicer.

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That's just the thing, if you're not doing coil you don't really need the gear. If you are doing coil, you also don't really need the gear! So people getting worked up are just doing so over middle ground content that actually has no real importance.

Which, co-incidentally, is why I think people who troll (like Thaoys is describing) to be doing us a great public service by knocking some of the more feverish Hunt proponents down a peg or three. I mean, I can't be the only one who looks at someone in fully upgraded soldiery and thinks "scrub" can I? Beyond dailies it's still pretty much intolerable on Tonberry, and thus not worth the effort at all, for gear which isn't needed in the first place.

If you look at people in upgraded soldiery and think "scrub", then you're a scrub, not them.

If you end up in roulette with people in upgraded soldiery, instead think "hey, they're in better gear than they could be, which is good for me". If they're not playing with you, then they don't impact you at all, so supporting the trolls is dumb.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Which, co-incidentally, is why I think people who troll (like Thaoys is describing) to be doing us a great public service by knocking some of the more feverish Hunt proponents down a peg or three. I mean, I can't be the only one who looks at someone in fully upgraded soldiery and thinks "scrub" can I? Beyond dailies it's still pretty much intolerable on Tonberry, and thus not worth the effort at all, for gear which isn't needed in the first place.

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Why would you possibly think "scrub"? People had upgraded soldiery before hunts and 110 soldiery is still BiS for several pieces on several jobs.

There is a free company/linkshell on Brynhildr called Early Pullers, who makes no secret that their intent is to disrupt a system that was beneficial for everyone. Our FC leader spoke out about this and provided evidence via screenshots and more, and was banned from the official forums for doing so. He just shrugged and said that he 'knew the risks' when it came to doing what was right. And while I understand that a witch hunt is something nobody wants, at what point SHOULD your reputation be damaged by associating with, raiding with, and spending every moment logged into the game with, a group of people actively taking malicious actions?

All we can hope for at this point is that the dev team recognizes there is an issue and seeks to address it, and only by making noise about there BEING A PROBLEM will that happen.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I mean, I can't be the only one who looks at someone in fully upgraded soldiery and thinks "scrub" can I?

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I don't understand why you'd think this. Upgraded soldiery gear is pretty darn good; it's actually BIS for some classes. Would you look at a crafter with an artisan tool and think "scrub" because they don't have a Supra?

I mean hell, I could be wearing Armor of Light to run my expert roulette instead. o.O

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't understand why you'd think this. Upgraded soldiery gear is pretty darn good; it's actually BIS for some classes. Would you look at a crafter with an artisan tool and think "scrub" because they don't have a Supra?

I mean hell, I could be wearing Armor of Light to run my expert roulette instead. o.O

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While I don't necessarily agree with the person you quoted, I mean you can find good players in all areas of play. But what he said, was FULL Upgraded Soldiery. Not pieces here and there due to BiS. He means FULL, no class/job has full Soldiery as BiS.

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While I don't necessarily agree with the person you quoted, I mean you can find good players in all areas of play. But what he said, was FULL Upgraded Soldiery. Not pieces here and there due to BiS. He means FULL, no class/job has full Soldiery as BiS.

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Exactly, and you instantly know that the only content they've been doing for 3 months is hunts.

Again, you do not need upgraded Soldiery items to start attempting Second Coil, and you certainly don't need them outside of coil. What i'm mainly trying to say is, if hunts are annoying you, just don't do them! It's an exercise in frustration, with average rewards, and people needn't subject themselves to it for the pure goal of increasing their iLvl.

SE knew this when they released the content, it's just that the players didn't really get the message, and chose to become rabid monsters when it comes to the hunt.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the reason hunts are so good is because all the rest of the content sucks ass? Case in point are the primal extremes - who wants to tear there hair out learning those fights for shite loot? Not to mention the que times.. ugh. SE has it all backwards - all the really brutal and tough things to do in this game offer little to no satisfying loot/reward. Meanwhile, a night of hunting which is zero risk showers goodness unto all players evenly and fairly. How they got it all ass backwards is just beyond me. Primal EX should offer sand, oil and bookdrops, and maybe even 5 or 10 seals for completion - I think if they bumped up the content around hunts to make it more appealing, then hunts would die abit. But as of now, theres no reason to do anything besides the hunt because thats where most of the good shit is.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the reason hunts are so good is because all the rest of the content sucks ass? ....

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Hunt rewards are capped by the weekly soldiery cap. A fresh level 50 like many of my friends will get to ilevel 90 and then the hunts isn't all that useful to them. They will want to run ST for that iLevel100 drop, and then do the dungeons, roulettes, etc. A good team will clear stuff like Titan EX in 15 minutes or less, and it they dropped stuff like oils and sands, it will be completely unbalanced. You beat the EX primals for bragging rights and get stuff to glamour or show off.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Hunt rewards are capped by the weekly soldiery cap. A fresh level 50 like many of my friends will get to ilevel 90 and then the hunts isn't all that useful to them. They will want to run ST for that iLevel100 drop, and then do the dungeons, roulettes, etc. Good team will clear stuff like Titan EX in 15 minutes or less, and it they dropped stuff like oils and sands, it will be completely unbalanced. You beat the EX primals for bragging rights and get stuff to glamour or show off.

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If Hunts were released when Soldiery was, you'd have a point. Since they were not, the rewards, or rather the unlocked aspect of them, outstrip just about anything else. Yet I don't think other things should be buffed to match, Sand/Oil from Hunting should of been capped.

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Originally Posted by ispano

If Hunts were released when Soldiery was, you'd have a point. ....

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Tell me how many players got 2000 soldiery banked now? It takes only 1 UAT to burn off 1300 soldiery and they another piece of gear and you are back to being capped but soldiery. It you want to get all you alt classes geared up, the hunts don't help much after everything is at iLevel 90. And there are lots of new players that fresh 50s that are just starting inch past the iLevel90 barrier slowly. The hunt rewards are fine as they are.

And if you want to get GC allied seal gear for glamour, the hunts are a slow grind.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

You beat the EX primals for bragging rights and get stuff to glamour or show off.

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Why can't it be the other way around though? Why can't hunts be for Glamour and to show off and EX primals have all the good loot. I mean I know for a fact you won't need all that i110 gear to kill hunts any faster, or anything else besides coil for that matter. Truly, he only people who benefit truly from the stats of i110 hunt gear are those that go and dare extreme primals or second coil.

This will probably be fixed in 2.4, where i120 gear will drop from only third coil.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

This will probably be fixed in 2.4, where i120 gear will drop from only third coil.

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Honestly, it will be a wait and see imho. But I do feel they are learning every major patch. ie they noticed the mistake of making tome gear the same as Coil gear and changed it for Second Coil. Will have to see what they do next.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Why can't it be the other way around though? Why can't hunts be for Glamour and to show off and EX primals have all the good loot. ...

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SE wants the game to inclusive. They want more people to be able to play and participate. Hunts don't get you the top end loot, but with a bit time people will able to tackle the coils and such. Glamour vanity being harder to get to is reward for the hardcore players to show off their dedication, but will not negatively impact accessbility and inclusivity. So this is the right decision and strategy that SE has taken. You may like it the other way around, but the vast majority of the player base likes it as it is.

What I would truly prefer is it hunts were balanced in a way to make the other content not lose its audience. Yes, people who can progress can jump into hunts and get their gear and that's perfectly fine. But and what about people who find hunts boring..? What if theyI don't want to log in every day and zerg the hell out of NMs so that I can have the best gear. I guess I'll have to suck it up?

Cuz of hunts, the number of people interested in extremes and coil have dwindled. And although this might be construed as selfish, I would ideally like it if all content to obtain better gear (Novus, Coil, Hunts) felt a little bit more balanced.


EDIT: Though I do generally find Hunts fun, so it doesn't bother me all that much.

A's and S's need to be locked to a party and an alliance respectively. Honestly, that's the only way it'll be "Balanced". You know what's sad though? Even if they do that, there will just be another flood of hate fromthe same people who were already complaining.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

A's and S's need to be locked to a party and an alliance respectively. Honestly, that's the only way it'll be "Balanced". You know what's sad though? Even if they do that, there will just be another flood of hate fromthe same people who were already complaining.

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No. No. GOD no. We already had that in XI and it was godawful.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

No. No. GOD no. We already had that in XI and it was godawful.

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I take it that you hate Treasure Hunts, Levequests, and B rank hunts then.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

A's and S's need to be locked to a party and an alliance respectively. Honestly, that's the only way it'll be "Balanced". You know what's sad though? Even if they do that, there will just be another flood of hate fromthe same people who were already complaining.

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I'd be more in favor of scaling the fights to whomever arrives to them. If 300 people want to come to the fight? Then fine great, cept now that critter is scaled up to challenge 300 people instead of the set 8 or 24 people. Everyone still gets their rewards but good luck zerg steam rolling it after its scaled up.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

I'd be more in favor of scaling the fights to whomever arrives to them. If 300 people want to come to the fight? Then fine great, cept now that critter is scaled up to challenge 300 people instead of the set 8 or 24 people. Everyone still gets their rewards but good luck zerg steam rolling it after its scaled up.

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Pfft.. make all A's rank like Odin - and all S ranks like Titan EX. To see 100+ people get instantly 1 shotted would be glorious to witness. LOL, the amount of "REZ PLZ" in chat would be hilarious. Now that's a real hunt.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

I take it that you hate Treasure Hunts, Levequests, and B rank hunts then.

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Not entirely sure what kind of argument you're trying to make... Treasure Hunts you can spam all day, depending on whether you don't mind spending lots of gil on Toad, Boar or Peistskin maps (since you can only "harvest" one map every 18 hours). Levequests you can spam all day until you run out of allowances. B ranks spawn every 5 seconds and only give bonuses to those who need to kill them.

A ranks respawn in around 3-4 hours and S ranks respawn every 32+ hours.

Personally I don't consider zerging a mob with 100 people and massive server latency fun gameplay.
Sure it's fun now and then but not as a sustained means of gear progression.

Imho they should remove sands/oils and keep hunts as a quick catch up mechanic + offer vanity gear with interesting visuals.