WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

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Originally Posted by Miste

I wasn't going to post...but wait, what? You are saying Healers should just not raise people so that bards don't have to ballad?

Just because people happen to die does not mean they will die again if raised. That would be an assumption...

Being WHM main I manage my MP really well and in normal fights I do not need ballad. But my MP is only as good as the people in my group, IE: the other healer doing their job properly, the tank using their CDs to avoid extra damage, and everyone not getting hit by dodge-able enemy attacks.

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Well lets think...if the healer is having to raise party members so much that he / she runs out of Mana, is the bard the root problem here?

I always sing songs. Because I can :D

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Originally Posted by Odd

I was called a bad healer for this last night during Titan HM. The thing is, no one died because I was having to spam medica after every set of plumes, and bombs, because 3 or more players were taking avoidable damage every time. I was told to " suck less" when I asked for ballad. Insert table flip gif here.

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I can almost guarantee that you were spamming Medica II

It's funny, while I love (and appreciate) Bards that use Ballad, it's usually when I'm about to/ or already have begun my Blizzard "rotation" to regain MP that I notice "Holy crap! I have full MP!" Then I get all giddy.

Lately I've been leveling Bard for Quelling Strikes. And though I've got the cross skill I need, I am going to get it to 50 because "Why not?" But in dungeons, so far I've probably been a bit too generous with my Ballad. But my thinking is "That healer's MP is looking awfully low..."

Bad WHMs that don't know how to manage their MP blaming BRDs. Who do you blame when there's not a BRD in the group?

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

This thread in a nutshell

1. Healers that run out of MP are bad. Should watch their MP and ask for songs when appropriate and see what the Bard is doing so they can play said song
2. Don't ask for songs because it abuses bards Spaming a Macro isn't going to make Ballad come faster
3. For Requiem is useless Is not always required. It just helps speed up the fight a bit in certain circumstances. Hurts in others because it causes aggro
4. Holy is bad Holy is bad when you spam it and your DPS is capable of clearing the fight
5. Some bards just want to DPS, so don't ask them for songs Some like Healers wanna do DPS at the cost of another perfectly capable DPS.
6. Don't raise people if they die Don't constantly raise people at the cost of others. Some people need to learn they are costing the party, not the Bard.

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More like learn to read.

Do you need a cookie or something it's like you totally misconstrue arguments to try to win...at what I have no idea.

At least half of you (Including OP) sound like children. "Nuh-uh! It's his fault!" None of you are perfect, there are bad players of every job, get over it and move on. No one care about your crying.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

If you read my post properly I said who it was directed to. Please don't compare yourself to an ant....that's insulting the ants :(

Meh imma stop here unless you guys wanna keep on going. You know how the saying goes! "Argue with a fool proves there's two."

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Honestly, it looks like you were just arguing with yourself.

Edit: After reading more of this thread, reminds me of a PLD I ran into in AK back when people spammed it for myth. Asked him why he wouldn't shield oath or flash or anything to keep aggro on mobs and said he didn't really want to tank, he just pocked it because it was the only class with sword and shield

QQ

ITT: Bards that should've rolled BLM because they can't handle other responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by Escadora

-Looks at lodestone, notices no ARC class even leveled to one, tries to bash BRD players by saying it's the easiest class in the game-

I derno, if your input is valid sir/madam..

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You do know, that you can choose, which character you want to be displayed on the forums?

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Originally Posted by Mogi

Charisma Id hope by thinking like that you never ever try to play as a BRD

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What exactly do you mean by that? Because im actually being useful for a group? How bad can people be, if im such a bad BRD, and im always nr.2 on threat meter in ct2? (i dont even have blood for blood (idk if its the right name in english))

Maybe you miss the point.. if im talking about a 4 Buttons class, i mean the usual rotation, its no big thing to throw in skills that are off global cooldown, so dont count them in.
Also if u want to be a good bard you have to work with macros, or else u will never get the max dps out of your bard, so basically Bloodletter and Miserys End dont count in the rotation.

You must be playing with some really bad bards then...

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Also if u want to be a good bard you have to work with macros, or else u will never get the max dps out of your bard, so basically Bloodletter and Miserys End dont count in the rotation.

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Well, You just gave away that you are certainly not a good Bard.

This game has been out for awhile so people are switching/testing out other classes. Understandably, there is an odd transition period. The veteran bard will know their class as both damage-dealer and support role and still push the DPS numbers. Of course, all bards (like any other class) were noobs at one point. Sometimes we gotta assume people are still learning their classes and may need feedback.

I understand why some Bards are caught off guard with their roles. They came to kill stuff with the benefits of mobility. Archer was originally set up for that. Summoners have the role of both damage dealing and dishing out debuffs on the target. Even in the Arcanist stages, they got a few skills to indicate the direction they are headed to if they pursue Summoner. Archer, though, started out as damage dealing then abruptly switched to support in Bard. SE should've given a few of those support skills earlier on during the Archer stages, to give players an indication of their role.

Using Macros for Bards is lazy DPS saying it's 4 buttons is silly. Your Crits can come up at any time. You just waste TP on something you should be monitoring. In the Coils you want to watch what you're shooting so you can DPS appropriately you macro run that you're gonna get some people ticked off.

All this QQing about BRD...
WHMs, haven't you learned yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Using Macros for Bards is lazy DPS saying it's 4 buttons is silly. Your Crits can come up at any time. You just waste TP on something you should be monitoring. In the Coils you want to watch what you're shooting so you can DPS appropriately you macro run that you're gonna get some people ticked off.

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Lol, you didnt even read my post, its only about bloodletter and miserys end, they are both off global cooldown, and will be executed as soon as they are ready, without interupting anything.

Also im not going to comment on troll posts, so dont bother telling me im bad, without giving any explanations.


Its funny to see how all these bards get offended because i say its a 4 button class, still its my favorite dps class to play, because its so chilled, to do some nice damage, without trying hard ;D
but its pretty easy to see its mostly the type of bards who dont use songs, because they are overchallenged doing their hard rotation, and evading aoes, that they cant pay any attention to the party window.

Not all WHMs who run out of MP are bad, in a 8-man scenario where one of the healers is down and the other has to heal both the party and the main tank ballad could help to get the other healer's mp up quick, or if the main healer's mp gets dangerously low. Or hell, if both healers died and got revived by other healers (in case of ST) or summoners.

I had a situation like that in ST, both of our healers died and other alliance members helped us raise them, on top of that our tank was MT, with ballad and SoS both healers were fully functional in no time and no one died during that downtime.

@KenzieLynch I'm curious, when do you think it's appropriate to use songs?

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well lets think...if the healer is having to raise party members so much that he / she runs out of Mana, is the bard the root problem here?

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You are just being defensive, no where in my post did I say BRDs were a problem or bad. Just pointing out that if that issue arises and we could possibly still pull off a win if the bard tossed ballad out for a minute then I wouldn't see why they would have such an issue with it. I can actually remember some Titan HM way back where ballad saved the day cause other healer was dead and I was solo healing it. Same with some epic Titan EX wins with my other healer dead.

The point I was trying to make was ..why wouldn't you do everything possible to help your party succeed? Instead of you know...not ballading cause you think the healer should not raise people...and I'm talking about like 2 people dying once, which can cost a lot of MP, yet you could still win if you just raised them and kept on going. It's like..it is not the bard's fault but you could help your party?

LOLBRDS sing? I didnt know that.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Stuff yo.

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I'll be honest. Didn't read most of this post, but any dps that use macros are lowering their dps. What you are describing is called the ability queue. Where when you press the button and it'll automatically cast the skill once GCD is up, but with macros you can't do that, at least not on this game. You'd have to manually push it with macros aka button mash, but there's still a delay compared to automatically using it. And that difference can actually become pretty major when relating to dps.

The timer changes as well. Bloodletter and other abilities change. I'm not sure at this point I can see Charisma is theorycrafting and not actually playing the class.

Even with Macros with a timer, you still have changes. I play high level WHM and BRD and understand some of the frustrations with Bards not playing songs when appropriate, but this "X class is easy" I found WHM Easier than BRD. But everyone's mileage can vary in this game.

Yeah I'm gonna go with Airikay on this one. Using macros on bard is probably the worse for your dps than keeping ballad up in most cases. It isn't a super complex class, I just like to think of it as "whack a mole" where you just keep waiting to tap all your procs and reapply your dots.

They should make it so that Bard has no damaging attacks (or set their attack value to zero) and make it so every button is linked to Foe's, Mage, or Army's and all the classes will be happy. And if you press all three at once Battle Voice comes on.

I agree a 100 percent that you should not need to tell a Bard to sing one of the songs needed. A bard should know X song is up in X situation .

On the other hand though, there are oh so many bards just pure DPSing. Isn't it time for us to admit (I'm with this theory* from day 1) that BRD was poorly designed when 9 out of 10 bards just skip songs? It's doesn't really feel like a support job.

* theory

We had those weird jobs in 1.0. Another team took over and they wanted the classic jobs back: pugilist = MNK, conjurer = WHM, marauder = WAR etc. Then I read archer = BRD, wait.. what!? Ranger would be the obvious choice but SE needed some form of support for mana/tp regen and dps buffs. Instead of creating a true BRD, they just merged ranger with BRD because there was no time to actually create a new job. Just like how SMN was added later which is a copy paste from WoW's affliction warlock and just how SCH was added last minute and now has the attributes problem.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

I agree a 100 percent that you should not need to tell a Bard to sing one of the songs needed. A bard should know X song is up in X situation .

On the other hand though, there are oh so many bards just pure DPSing. Isn't it time for us to admit (I'm with this theory* from day 1) that BRD was poorly designed when 9 out of 10 bards just skip songs? It's doesn't really feel like a support job.

* theory

We had those weird jobs in 1.0. Another team took over and they wanted the classic jobs back: pugilist = MNK, conjurer = WHM, marauder = WAR etc. Then I read archer = BRD, wait.. what!? Ranger would be the obvious choice but SE needed some form of support for mana/tp regen and dps buffs. Instead of creating a true BRD, they just merged ranger with BRD and gave us a pretty lore story how bards use bows bla bla.

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That's because it's not a support job, as Yoshi-P and the mods have stated in the past. It's a DPS class, the same as you would look at a BLM/DRG/MNK/SMN as.

The way they made Requiem work is just awful as a learning experience for BRD as a first class/job for a player. A huge radius debuff that will aggro everything in range. Anyone that was around early into ARR launch will probably recall moments that Requiem accidentally aggroed a large number of dungeon mobs that may have wiped the group. In many parts of the game, you're essentially discouraged from using it. I honestly don't blame BRDs that don't use Requiem as a norm, just because of that fact. Now if they don't cast things like Ballad or Paeon, that's another story.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

WHM however on a dungeon run should not run out of MP even with HOLY spam

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You've obviously never had a derpy tank. Case in point, I was healing a Hullbreaker run last night. Right out of the gate the tank goes "this is a speed run." Now the DPS were a monk and a dragoon, so in the back of my mind I was thinking, "this guy can't be serious." He takes off and pulls every mob up until the bridge. It took so long to kill them that the tank ran out of cool downs and I had to spam Cure II just to keep him alive. Ran out of MP and we all died. He raged and left.

Point of the story, a WHM running out of MP is a responsibility that the whole party has control over, not just the WHM. The best WHM in the world is at the mercy of derpy players in party content.

That's my whole point "it doesn't really feel like a support job", yet they have to do support stuff which most don't do. Why? They're not support right. Hence poorly designed or even better, poor remnant of 1.0 which hopefully get's fixed in 3.0 when they hopefully decide to change the whole job system Yoshi mentioned.

BRD was once a support Job, until it got tweaked, nerfed and changed that is. Now it's only a DPS with some small support spells.

If a BRD doesn't use Ballad/Paeon/Requiem at the right time then he should feel bad.

But hey, just like a BRD not using his songs you have BLMs not using Flare in massive trash pulls, MNKs not keeping their buffs up, DRGs just sitting there and poke the boss without evading AoEs, PLDs not using shield oath, WHMs spamming medica II, SCHs not calling Eos, SMNs not looking at what Garuda is doing, WARs spamming Until out of PT ....

It's just bad players...they're everywhere.

I once got yelled at in Garuda ex for using foe req. The spiny kept ending up on me and the off-tank yelled at me because it was somehow my fault that he couldn't grab it off (wut) whole group (the whole friggin group) threatened to kick me if I didnt stop using foe req. Also I usually don't use foe reqs for whm nuking unless I see them nuking because I forget to. A lot of whms won't nuke.

This thread amused me. It was all fun and lols until I read that "the healers should only heal and not DPS". God. Yeah, hate and don't help the healer that makes the run even FASTER by adding some extra DPS. I, however, prefer to use Foe's on a healer that is DPSing, because he SHOULD stop when he's at 1/3ish of his MP. Being Foe a magic buff, in combination with the party DPS, the trash should be done by the third holy. I mostly play tank, and if you didn't heal me because you over-used your MP, I'll stare at you in disgust. Be wise on that one.

Now, when I play BLM, I hope the bard uses Foe. Most of the time I don't ask him to do so, not because I usually don't notice it, but I really don't like to tell people how to do their job when I barely play that class. Pretty much my bad, there. Probably the bard just forgot to use it too and I should ask, but there're some people with that shitty philosophy of "I do what I want, don't tell me what to do" that I prefer to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Jinglybell

I once got yelled at in Garuda ex for using foe req. The spiny kept ending up on me and the off-tank yelled at me because it was somehow my fault that he couldn't grab it off (wut) whole group (the whole friggin group) threatened to kick me if I didnt stop using foe req. Also I usually don't use foe reqs for whm nuking unless I see them nuking because I forget to. A lot of whms won't nuke.

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buffs generate anywhere from 15 to 105 enmity.

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Originally Posted by Airikay

I'll be honest. Didn't read most of this post, but any dps that use macros are lowering their dps. What you are describing is called the ability queue. Where when you press the button and it'll automatically cast the skill once GCD is up, but with macros you can't do that, at least not on this game. You'd have to manually push it with macros aka button mash, but there's still a delay compared to automatically using it. And that difference can actually become pretty major when relating to dps.

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This is total bs... if u macro skills which are off the global cooldown, its no difference, they will be used instantly if your other skill is on global cooldown, thats why u macro all your 4 skills as bard, so it will be used, while the other skill you are going to use next, is on GCD. The numbers i put up on t8 tell a true story, and im not even going to react on the person who states, it would be worse than keeping up songs the whole fight.

Also lol at person saying any dps class is harder than healing, since dps classes are lolcake in every game, im pretty sure u never healed anything above garuda extreme.

However, nothing of whatever i said about macros change the fact, that bard is the easiest class to play, yet people fail at multitasking with it.
Dont bother replying about this macro bs anymore, because im not going to bother with it as well, im tired of people who never really tried to play a bard with macros, and still claim its a dps loss, because they dont know, how macroing skills, which are off the global cooldown works.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

...WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?! ...

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Maybe still better than the brd who singing TPsong only for himself during battle.... ofcoz,, it was a pld/whm/blm roulette. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Snip

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THANK YOU! You said just what I did some posts back...I was starting to think I was losing my mind being told I was doing both my jobs wrong lol
And I'm not saying don't ever use balled neither. If you as a bard see the healer fighting on mana because either the tank pulled more then he should have, etc, by all means balled. But if a healers just spamming holy to the point where they don't have enough mana to keep their party alive, screw it. You can try and balled but that healer never going to get enough mana back to toss out quick cures if needing to. All you can hope for at that point is if they have SoS/mana potions off CD and your balled gives them just enough to get out of a tight spot. Point is, why should a bard have to balled a whole fight and lose dps when they can foe, help the whm dps and keep their dps up. Win win here people. Not hard.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Me healing 8 man trial roulette. Bard sits in plumes 5 times. I raise Bard 5 times. Other healer off the edge.

Doesn't get Ballad from any of the three bards in the party.

http://i.imgur.com/8bwXv.gif

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lol at the boogie2988 table flip

I have no idea why this thread continue to 20 pages (I read only OP)
Can anyone tell me why, just want to catch up :x

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Originally Posted by tOnni3

I have no idea why this thread continue to 20 pages (I read only OP)
Can anyone tell me why, just want to catch up :x

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People assumed OP meant that only baddies play BRD, and it went downhill from there :p

Seriously you're moaning about bards not just jumping on the band wagon and singing songs?

How about asking - yes they have brains and eyes and can sing for themselves, but you have a tongue - well fingers in this case - USE THEM and stop moaning.

You know what I'd like? Less whiny healers that deplete ALL of their mp on holy because they want quicker runs of dungeons - that don't then moan that they have a lack of mp.

I'd also like white mages that know how to utilise shroud of saints to reduce enmity, and black mages that know how to use quelling strikes - priorities in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

Seriously you're moaning about bards not just jumping on the band wagon and singing songs?

How about asking

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As said, I think the point is you shouldn't have to ask or tell someone to do their jobs. But like I also said, the issue is SE creating the generic style BRD which is more of an Archer DD than support, so it can be confusing when you see those song icons on your skill bars.

I'm amazed this thread hasn't been nuked yet. I guess the thrill of being the Bard is just that irresistible.